THE SONY SERVICE CODES - Articles, Comments, Discoveries - Page 16 - AVS Forum
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post #451 of 2973 Old 09-15-2005, 11:17 AM
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Hi,

I got my 34XS955 a week ago. Yesterday I tried the Adjacent Colors image (from memory stick), posted earlier in this thread, and I noticed kind of ghost/shadow on the right side of each color.
My question is: Is it possible to fix this from the service menu, without affecting/breaking something else, and which code(s) I should be looking at?

Thanks,

Dimitar
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post #452 of 2973 Old 09-15-2005, 12:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjmilo View Post

Is anyone aware whether the 34XBR910 has such a pattern generating menu?

JJ, you should just enter service mode to find out. I know of no document that will tell you this. Just get into service mode and step backwards with the 5 key to see if you run into a "QM" group of codes. If not after going back several steps, you likely don't have this feature. You can exit by turning the set off.

KenTech
"We all get smart slowly."
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post #453 of 2973 Old 09-15-2005, 12:59 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxDam77 View Post

On mine, DVDs set in 480p and regular tv in "full" mode fills the whole screen. but while using my PS2 and GC, like you I miss like less than an inch on the sides in full.
How I corrected that? I simply adjust the screensize in the sm (HSIZ) to 44. My default setting is 51 and everything (DVD, PS2,...) fills the whole screen but I have a problem when doing so, blurs on the sides when dark colors and whites are mixed together appears for DVD and TV only(on the sides and edges only). I tried to tweak in the D-CONV menu but nothing happened. It's still there. Maybe it is the focus for the verticals but I'm not sure whitch menu to tweak.

Try adjusting QPDC, this adjusts the overall focus in the middle of the screen,it will help to focus the verticals in the middle of the screen.
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post #454 of 2973 Old 09-15-2005, 01:12 PM
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Thanks, I'll check that out. I just went back to the 1st page of this thread and Ken already mentioned it. But I wasn't sure it was that.
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post #455 of 2973 Old 09-15-2005, 04:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KenTech View Post

JJ, you should just enter service mode to find out. I know of no document that will tell you this. Just get into service mode and step backwards with the 5 key to see if you run into a "QM" group of codes. If not after going back several steps, you likely don't have this feature. You can exit by turning the set off.

KenTech
I would not have asked this question if I would have had access to my XBR. I suppose I should have mentioned that I have been away and still am, for the better part of a month. However I did not feel obligated to do so. Consequently I am not able to investigate this personally. I was anticipating a pleasant surprise before I return. I have been in the Service Menu numerous times and I did not recall such an item. But then again I could have missed it. I was hoping someone who has present access to the 34XBR910 would have done this already and responded. Perhaps the lack of response means NO. I quess I will answer the question myself when I return. Thank you for your response nonetheless.
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post #456 of 2973 Old 09-15-2005, 06:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxDam77 View Post

On mine, DVDs set in 480p and regular tv in "full" mode fills the whole screen. but while using my PS2 and GC, like you I miss like less than an inch on the sides in full.
How I corrected that? I simply adjust the screensize in the sm (HSIZ) to 44. My default setting is 51 and everything (DVD, PS2,...) fills the whole screen but I have a problem when doing so, blurs on the sides when dark colors and whites are mixed together appears for DVD and TV only(on the sides and edges only). I tried to tweak in the D-CONV menu but nothing happened. It's still there. Maybe it is the focus for the verticals but I'm not sure whitch menu to tweak.

You really shouldn't have to anamorphically squeeze your normal DVD and TV signal, just because you have to fit the signal from your PC....!

The service menu have so many entries that deals with this exact problem. You can adjust width and height independent of signal and input. The only thing you cannot do is differentiate between different signals if they are send in through the same input, and the Sony TV sees them as the same signal type i.e. 480p.

If you could tell me which signals you send though which inputs on the TV, and how the TV interprets the signals, we might be able to find a better solution for you.

The problem you have with fuzzy edges should be solved using the blanking shutters. See KenTech #265
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post #457 of 2973 Old 09-15-2005, 07:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dimitar View Post

Hi, I got my 34XS955 a week ago. Yesterday I tried the Adjacent Colors image (from memory stick), posted earlier in this thread, and I noticed kind of ghost/shadow on the right side of each color.
My question is: Is it possible to fix this from the service menu, without affecting/breaking something else, and which code(s) I should be looking at?

Suggestion: Go to your menu, turn off ClearEdge WM. If that doesn't help, you might have your Sharpness set too high. It should not be higher than 31.
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post #458 of 2973 Old 09-15-2005, 08:26 PM
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Hi Kentech:

I'm new to the forum but I am very interested in the calibration of my XBR960. I cannot seem to download the pdf file with the good stuff in it. Could it be reposted somehow?
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post #459 of 2973 Old 09-16-2005, 07:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ptchristensen View Post

You really shouldn't have to anamorphically squeeze your normal DVD and TV signal, just because you have to fit the signal from your PC....!

The service menu have so many entries that deals with this exact problem. You can adjust width and height independent of signal and input. The only thing you cannot do is differentiate between different signals if they are send in through the same input, and the Sony TV sees them as the same signal type i.e. 480p.

If you could tell me which signals you send though which inputs on the TV, and how the TV interprets the signals, we might be able to find a better solution for you.

The problem you have with fuzzy edges should be solved using the blanking shutters. See KenTech #265

Thanks,
I'm use too it but I'd love not to enter the sm everytime I want to play videogames.
So here is how it is set when (HSIZ 51)
I use the Video 5 for DVD via component cables and my dvd player is set to 480p
Video 6 for PS2 via component cables 480i
Video 3 for the Gamecube via S-video cable.
DVD and TV have blurs on the edges when dark and light are mixed together. PS2 and GC, is Perfect.
When (HSiZ 44-45) The DVD and TV blurs are gone and but I miss an inch on the right and left sides for the GC and PS2.

I'll look on Ken Tech #265.

Thanks for your help.
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post #460 of 2973 Old 09-16-2005, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxDam77 View Post

Thanks,
I'm use too it but I'd love not to enter the sm everytime I want to play videogames.
So here is how it is set when (HSIZ 51)
I use the Video 5 for DVD via component cables and my dvd player is set to 480p
Video 6 for PS2 via component cables 480i
Video 3 for the Gamecube via S-video cable.
DVD and TV have blurs on the edges when dark and light are mixed together. PS2 and GC, is Perfect.
When (HSiZ 44-45) The DVD and TV blurs are gone and but I miss an inch on the right and left sides for the GC and PS2.

I'll look on Ken Tech #265.

Thanks for your help.

Try this:

1) Adjust HSIZ so that the DVD and TV is perfect, save.
2) Input the PS2 signal. In service menu go to MID2. Write down existing settings, then adjust DRHP and DRHS till the width of the input fits the screen. These two settings work a little different than HSIZ since the work from the side instead of from the center, so you have to adjust both. save.
3) Input the GC signal. In service menu go to MID3. Write down existing settings, then adjust VDHP and VDHS as described above. save.

That should do it...if not, report back and we will try something else....and you shouldn't need the blanking shutters.

The reason I think it might work is that you have separate input for all the different signals. MID2 only deals with 480i signals, MID3 deals with the rest.
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post #461 of 2973 Old 09-16-2005, 10:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ptchristensen View Post

Try this:

1) Adjust HSIZ so that the DVD and TV is perfect, save.
2) Input the PS2 signal. In service menu go to MID2. Write down existing settings, then adjust DRHP and DRHS till the width of the input fits the screen. These two settings work a little different than HSIZ since the work from the side instead of from the center, so you have to adjust both. save.
3) Input the GC signal. In service menu go to MID3. Write down existing settings, then adjust VDHP and VDHS as described above. save.

That should do it...if not, report back and we will try something else....and you shouldn't need the blanking shutters.

The reason I think it might work is that you have separate input for all the different signals. MID2 only deals with 480i signals, MID3 deals with the rest.

First of all, thank you for your time for looking into my problem. As soon as I'm at home, I'll try that and tell you, probably tommorrow if that worked out.
Thanks again for your help.
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post #462 of 2973 Old 09-16-2005, 12:14 PM
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Went home during my lunch break and it worked
It work for the PS2 but the GC in MID3 didn't do anything.
So I when back a reajust in the MID1 because I changed the ones I had to my default setting like it was.
Everything fills the screen and I haven't yet notice any blur!

Big thanks again.
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post #463 of 2973 Old 09-16-2005, 12:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxDam77 View Post

It work for the PS2 but the GC in MID3 didn't do anything.

Must be because the GC signal is 480i, so when you corrected the PS2 input in MID2 you also corrected the GC signal.
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post #464 of 2973 Old 09-26-2005, 02:09 PM
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When centering the raster on my 30xs955, should I judge center by space on either side of the raster or a center point on a test pattern? The service manual is not clear on this, but I am assuming one would center based on equal spacing on either side.
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post #465 of 2973 Old 09-26-2005, 03:04 PM
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When centering the raster on my 30xs955, should I judge center by space on either side of the raster or a center point on a test pattern? The service manual is not clear on this, but I am assuming one would center based on equal spacing on either side.
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post #466 of 2973 Old 09-26-2005, 04:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by confinoj View Post

When centering the raster on my 30xs955, should I judge center by space on either side of the raster or a center point on a test pattern? The service manual is not clear on this, but I am assuming one would center based on equal spacing on either side.

You are assuming correctly...but...!

If all the width and height settings in MID1, 2 and 3 are at their default settings, the centering using 2170D-2, HCNT, would actually be correct, but that's usually not the way it works.

If you are following the instructions from the service manual, the picture will be compressed when you do the centering. If your image is equally spaced, and the center of the test pattern is close to the center of your screen, you are in good shape.

After the centering is done you should not touch HCNT again. I think the reason they start with this centering is that the HSIZ and VSIZ works from this locked center and out.
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post #467 of 2973 Old 09-27-2005, 08:20 AM
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Thanks. I have not touched the MIDx settings yet. So does that mean centering as written in the service manual is ok. If I center based on side spacing the center of the cross hatch pattern (QM PAT #1) is not centered - is this ok? Also, as am I reading about MIDx settings I'm confused about setting image size/overscan. Should I be setting overscan to 0% using 2170D1-2 and then adjusting based on input via the MIDx settings? If you could reccomend a general procedure starting with centering raster and sizing using 2170D1-2 then moving on to the MIDx settings I would appreciate it. The interplay is still somewhat confusing to me.
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post #468 of 2973 Old 09-27-2005, 01:18 PM
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Thanks. That's very helpful. A few more questions:
1) Are you saying that you set overscan in 2170D1-2 on the default input just enough to hide imperfections (hopefully only a few %) and then adjust overscan any further if needed using MIDx based on individual inputs? Is the goal to have a little overscan as possible.
2) When you say mark the width of the black bars for 480i, do mean by calculating and measuring out what a 4:3 image should be given my screen size/aspect? If not then the the measurements would be off, unless the image is already appropriately sized/centered.
3) Is it possible to use the built in test patterns (QM) and still set MIDx by individual inputs? I'v read somewhere that built in test patterns aren't always centered appropriately.

Thanks again.
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post #469 of 2973 Old 09-27-2005, 03:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by confinoj View Post

Thanks. That's very helpful. A few more questions:
1) Are you saying that you set overscan in 2170D1-2 on the default input just enough to hide imperfections (hopefully only a few %) and then adjust overscan any further if needed using MIDx based on individual inputs? Is the goal to have a little overscan as possible.
2) When you say mark the width of the black bars for 480i, do mean by calculating and measuring out what a 4:3 image should be given my screen size/aspect? If not then the the measurements would be off, unless the image is already appropriately sized/centered.
3) Is it possible to use the built in test patterns (QM) and still set MIDx by individual inputs? I'v read somewhere that built in test patterns aren't always centered appropriately.

Thanks again.

1) I set overscan and basic geometry for all inputs, screen modes and resolutions using 2170D-1 and 2. After this basic adjustment you should only have to adjust slightly for size and position using MID2 for 480i and MID3 for the rest. Remember 2170D-1 and 2 defines the picture frame. Using MID2 and MID3 you adjust the picture inside the frame for different inputs, screen modes and resolutions.

2) If 4:3 is centered correctly now, just mark the spots where the black bars begin. If it's not then you have to do the math.

3) Yes, read KenTech #429.
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post #470 of 2973 Old 09-28-2005, 08:07 AM
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1) I set overscan and basic geometry for all inputs, screen modes and resolutions using 2170D-1 and 2.

It seems almost all of these settings (2170D-1/2) are global, so you have to strike a balance for different resolutions/inputs/screen modes, correct? Then the question is which input do you use as the "default" I had been using the QM test patterns for 1080i and 480i which seems to be equivalent to the ATSC input. It does not seem possible to use these patterns for setting other inputs. The only problem is that there is no 480i normal mode and I've also noticed that the 480i full test pattern, when centered (I was using HPOS and SCRL since these can be set for 1080i and "others") is way off from other inputs. Should I forget about these patterns and just pick my most used input and use that to do initial sizing/centering, geometry?

Another question. As you suggested I started setup with a 1080i test pattern since I have a 16:9 set. After getting overscan settings how I liked it on 1080i with 2070D-1/2 HSIZ/VSIZ, I discovered that 480i normal content had too small a horizontal size (I calculated 19.5 inches for my 30" WS set) so I had to readjust HSIZE for the correct width. Was this the right thing to do?

Thanks again.
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post #471 of 2973 Old 09-28-2005, 10:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by confinoj View Post

1) I set overscan and basic geometry for all inputs, screen modes and resolutions using 2170D-1 and 2.

It seems almost all of these settings (2170D-1/2) are global, so you have to strike a balance for different resolutions/inputs/screen modes, correct? Then the question is which input do you use as the "default" I had been using the QM test patterns for 1080i and 480i which seems to be equivalent to the ATSC input. It does not seem possible to use these patterns for setting other inputs. The only problem is that there is no 480i normal mode and I've also noticed that the 480i full test pattern, when centered (I was using HPOS and SCRL since these can be set for 1080i and "others") is way off from other inputs. Should I forget about these patterns and just pick my most used input and use that to do initial sizing/centering, geometry?

Another question. As you suggested I started setup with a 1080i test pattern since I have a 16:9 set. After getting overscan settings how I liked it on 1080i with 2070D-1/2 HSIZ/VSIZ, I discovered that 480i normal content had too small a horizontal size (I calculated 19.5 inches for my 30" WS set) so I had to readjust HSIZE for the correct width. Was this the right thing to do?

Thanks again.

1) Sorry I wasn't real clear on that one. What I meant to say was that almost all the settings in 2170D-1 and 2 are global. So by adjusting these you adjust all inputs, screen modes and resolutions.

You almost did it the way I did:

- I set the "default", in this case 1080i using 2170D-1 and 2.
- I adjust the "Full" 480i using MID2. I do not go back and adjust any of the 2170D-1 and 2 settings after I have done my "default" setup, that would just throw off the adjustments I just did.
- I adjust the rest using MID3

After this I test all the signal for "real". 1080i using a test signal from my Comcast DVR through DVI-HDMI. 480i from the TV tuner and 480p DVD signal through component cables.
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post #472 of 2973 Old 09-30-2005, 10:49 AM
 
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Yesterday i did some tweaking in an effort to recalibrate my black level.

Before i had SBRT at 20 and UBOF at 3 for video 5-6 component inputs interlaced and progressive.UBOF at 0 for video 1-4 and UBOF at 0 for cable tv.

Now for about 3 months, it's kind of funny how i thought i had a perfect black level when in fact i came to realize that doing some more test patterns with DVE and the ramp test patterns there was no detail in dark areas.I immediately noticed that all this time when i finally plugged in my dreamcast that i hav'nt played in a while to video3 the black level was crushed, no detail at all too dark.huh?

It's funny how i did'nt realize i was sacrificing shadow detail for dark black levels,i did'nt realize i was lossing shadow detail untill now.It seems video 1-4 and cable input were way off too dark.So this leads me to beleive that my dvd player was darker than all the other inputs.

Is it common to raise UBOF 4-5 notches to get shadow detail? is my SBRT setting too low at 20? This is very frustrating, the DVE disc does'nt help much either in explaining the other test patterns for brightness and contrast.

I need help guys...
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post #473 of 2973 Old 09-30-2005, 11:17 AM
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Hi Crochunter,

I have the 30xs955. I have my SBRT at 33, and the UBOF at 0 or 1 depending on input and scan rate. I have plenty of shadow detail, and the BTB patterns on DVE look just right.

Hope this helps
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post #474 of 2973 Old 09-30-2005, 11:21 AM
 
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33 is way too high for me, by going that high UBOF is useless to me on mine.

I need kentech's help, thanks for your input but i think kentech knows a bit more to help.

for instance i would like to know how to use the other brightness test patterns on DVE and would like to know how to use them and what to look for.
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post #475 of 2973 Old 09-30-2005, 12:27 PM
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My SBRT is set to 28. It used to but at 31.
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post #476 of 2973 Old 09-30-2005, 12:38 PM
 
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Isn't that kind of high to you?

Is black even black at that level?
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post #477 of 2973 Old 09-30-2005, 05:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrocHunter View Post

Is it common to raise UBOF 4-5 notches to get shadow detail? is my SBRT setting too low at 20? This is very frustrating, the DVE disc does'nt help much either in explaining the other test patterns for brightness and contrast.

First, it's *very* important to understand that black level is established in several places that interact -- or add together, depending on how you look at it.

(1) Globally, 2170P-1 - RCUT-BCUT contribute as much as SBRT, #4 below. If you raise them all up a couple of notches, you have raised black level as if you had raised SBRT.

(2) 2170P-1 - YOF is an offset that affects black level. Here, the settings are dependent on input video rate *and* video class (YC, component, HDMI, MS/ATSC tuner). I have left them for now set as they came from the factory.

(3) 2170P-4 - BLK, if anything but zero, invokes a dynamic black-level feature that will drive you nuts. It's 0 (off) in Pro mode, but you have to make it zero for the other modes (highly recommended). Until you do this, experiment with black level *only* in Pro mode.

(4) 2170P-1 - SBRT is the fundamental global black-level setting. When I set my drive and cutoff values (RDRV thru BCUT) for the first time, I set SBRT to 31, and then adjusted the RGB cutoffs (#1, above) for a reasonable black level, in the right ballpark. It was originally *way* off for my purposes.

(5) 2170P-3 - UBOF is for balancing black levels among your variious input classes, video rates, and picture modes. If you do set one of them to 0, make sure it's the input/source with the highest black level or you'll have nowhere to go with the others if you have to make them darker. One notch of change here = about two notches in SBRT.

Yes, it is complex, but there are different methods you can use to get a good black-level adjustment.

First, be aware that standards are very sloppy or nonexistant for black level over component cables. The exact voltage for black (green cable) differs from player to player, from one manufacturere to another, and also depends on whether you have set any features on the player, such as lighter-darker, super-black, extended black, etc. My Normal setting for my retired (and excellent) Toshiba 3650 was *very* high; but the Normal setting on my new Panasonic S97 is about the same as broadcast and S-video. Go figure. All you need to do is balance the black levels with the 2170P-3/UBOF settings.

Here is a method that will work. If you want to establish an SBRT setting at its center (31),

(1) play a PLUGE pattern from AVIA or DVE over S-video;
(2) set SBRT to 31;
(3) adjust 2170P-1 - RCUT thru BCUT for a neutral and correct black level. If you have already gotten those cutoffs just right, you might try changing them each by the same amount, so color is not affected. (No guarantees.)
(4) move the DVD player to the component inputs, and trim black level with UBOF for that video rate.

Now . . . *that* gets you in the ballpark, and it doesn't matter if, after tinkering in great detail, you end up with SBRT a few points different or whatever, you have gotten the settings near the middle of their ranges.

One could argue that the UBOF balancing settings could be started off at 3, so you can go either way to make an adjustment. I have no evidence that there are "correct" settings for UBOF; they're for compensating for differences. So one could start with UBOF at 3 for each input, then do steps 1-3 above, and then refine the adjustments for UBOF. I don't think it matters a whit how you do it, but I would confine myself to balancing out SBRT, the RGB cutoffs, and UBOF in Pro mode. (Leave YOF alone.)

The argument for setting SBRT in the middle of its range isn't a strong one. It feels "right" to me, a career electronics and computer engineer. I can't argue for changing anything if you already have a set of satisfactory values for the cutoffs, and SBRT is at, say, 15. My set came with SBRT at 20! The service-manual charts, however, show defaults for different model TVs at 31 for SBRT. So 31 is obviously okay, and I was starting over with the cutuff settings. So I followed the above procedure to great satisfaction.

Example settings for my 36XS955, approx 6500K white, color Neutral, DVE pluge:

UBOF = 3 or 4., depending on input. Mostly 4. (DVD player on V5 was 0, now 4.)
SBRT = 31
RDRV - BCUT = 43-27-21 - 40-21-22

Another example for friend's 34XBR960, approx 6500K white, color Neutral, DVE pluge from late-model Toshiba player:

UBOF = untouched from factory; unknown.
SBRT = 31
RDRV-BCUT = 40-27-24 - 38-20-26

Note that the *sum* of the three cutoff settings nearly match, at 83-84. But there were color differences between his set and mine, with red-blue differences in the settings, eay to adjust. I started with *my* settings on *his* TV, then tweaked them for correct color. Worked like a charm. Used a transportable small computer with a calibrated 6500K screen as a standard.

This discussion has been about *just* black level ("brightness"). Contrast ("picture") is another set of adjustments entirely, overlapping the above only in the three RGB drive settings. I have found new ways to balance the contrast between different sources, too, and the settings are in different places: 2170P-4 - SPIC (for different input classes) and 2103-1 - SCON for balancing SD broadcast against S-video inputs (say, your VCR).

Further, no matter what I have said before, there are two places where sharpness is very significantly controlled *in addition* to 2170P-3 and the MID5 table. I'll write that up soon. I have some substantially improved image settings to recommend for different sources, based on these (for me) recent discoveries. Surprising improvements for SD broadcast and SD over S-video, and for DVD on component inputs, less so for HD broadcast.

Have I clarified this, or made matters worse? Gimme feedback!

KenTech
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post #478 of 2973 Old 09-30-2005, 05:36 PM
 
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Ken, First off thank you very, very much for your detailed response

Quote:


(3) adjust 2170P-1 - RCUT thru BCUT for a neutral and correct black level. If you have already gotten those cutoffs just right, you might try changing them each by the same amount, so color is not affected. (No guarantees.)

Not sure exactly what these did before and was afraid to touch them since everything looks good the way it is.Should i adjust these?

Also by highest black level input do you mean the blacks when they are smokey?

So if i'm getting this right, i should first calibrate s-video with video1-4 since it's the same, with SBRT then use UBOF to balance the rest of the inputs?
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post #479 of 2973 Old 09-30-2005, 05:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tudor View Post

I have the 30xs955. I have my SBRT at 33, and the UBOF at 0 or 1 depending on input and scan rate. I have plenty of shadow detail, and the BTB patterns on DVE look just right.

And an important point is this: If those BTB patterns look just right for your DVD player, but you aren't getting good (or too much) shadow detail on, say, HD broadcast (which is fairly consistent) or SD broadcast (which is not consistent), you just tweak UBOF for that input, and go on watching to see if it's improved. So easy once you have the *basic* black level down cold for one predictable input.

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post #480 of 2973 Old 09-30-2005, 06:05 PM
 
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You see that's what confuses me the BTB bar, how should i go when adjusting black level should i adjust it untill it's visible, or do i adjust it untill it justs becomes invisible and blends with the background?

The DVE disc when it tells you can get really confusing, could you if possible show me some pics of your tv with those test patterns to tell me what to look for.

I noticed my PS2 does'nt have the BTB bar, what do i do to calibrate that for my videogames?or is that only affect the dvd part of the PS2 and not the games?
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