THE SONY SERVICE CODES - Articles, Comments, Discoveries - Page 17 - AVS Forum
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post #481 of 2973 Old 09-30-2005, 06:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by CrocHunter View Post

Ken, First off thank you very, very much for your detailed response

You're welcome very, very much!
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Not sure exactly what these did before and was afraid to touch them since everything looks good the way it is. Should i adjust these?

If your darkest grays are satisfactory in color, meaning they're a neutral gray, not reddish or bluish or something, then I would leave them alone. Make the major adjustment with SBRT, no matter what value it ends up with. That guarantees you won't screw up the color. (I'm only guessing that changing RCUT-BCUT by the same amount leaves the color untouched. Maybe they actually don't track perfectly.)
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Also by highest black level input do you mean the blacks when they are smokey?

Yes. Smoky-gray blacks indicate a *high* black level for that source (coming into the TV), and you should consider lowering UBOF for that input or leaving it at zero and lowering SBRT.
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So if i'm getting this right, i should first calibrate s-video with video 1-4 since it's the same, with SBRT then use UBOF to balance the rest of the inputs?

That really does seem like a good strategy, as I certainly can't say how black behaves on your DVD player's component outputs. But if you know that DVD/component black is higher than DVD/S-video (i.e. its blacks are smoky), then you can set the component DVD connection to UBOF = 0 (and ignore DVD/S-video), and the other inputs and broadcast will likely be set to a higher UBOF. You might have to go through this process twice to get it right.

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post #482 of 2973 Old 09-30-2005, 06:33 PM
 
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You see that's what confuses me the BTB bar, how should i go when adjusting black level should i adjust it untill it's visible, or do i adjust it untill it justs becomes invisible and blends with the background?

The DVE disc when it tells you can get really confusing, could you if possible show me some pics of your tv with those test patterns to tell me what to look for.

I noticed my PS2 does'nt have the BTB bar, what do i do to calibrate that for my videogames?or is that only affect the dvd part of the PS2 and not the games?

What about this, thanks this is my final question.
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post #483 of 2973 Old 09-30-2005, 06:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrocHunter View Post

You see that's what confuses me the BTB bar, how should i go when adjusting black level should i adjust it untill it's visible, or do i adjust it untill it justs becomes invisible and blends with the background?

The DVE disc when it tells you can get really confusing, could you if possible show me some pics of your tv with those test patterns to tell me what to look for.

On DVE, go directly to Title 12, Chapter 2 for pluge bars and gray steps. The three black bars on either side of the gray steps are what you pay attention to. Adjust black level under your normal viewing conditions (fairly dim, but not lights-out) so that the outer bars (blacker-than-black) are *not* visible, the middle bars *are* visible, and the inner bars are only *slightly* visible -- just barely.

For folks with the AVIA disk, go to Advanced > Video Test Patterns > Gray Scale & Levels > Black Bars & Log Steps. Adjust black level so the moving bar to the left of the step pattern is just barely visible.

I think you'll find that you will end up tweaking real video sources a bit up and down from here with the Brightness slider, depending on how they were produced, even for HD and DVDs. The important thing is to please your eyes for whatever you're watching. But this is a good starting point for Brightness = 31.

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post #484 of 2973 Old 09-30-2005, 06:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by CrocHunter View Post

I noticed my PS2 does'nt have the BTB bar, what do i do to calibrate that for my videogames?or is that only affect the dvd part of the PS2 and not the games?

I don't know what to recommend, given that I don't play games or have a gaming device available. I would assume that calibration is less critical, as you are not trying to display photographic reality, here. I would think the darkest tones in the game are "black," and that you can deduce what those are by moving the Brightness slider up and down. If you consistently end up preferring Brightness at, say 35, you could knock UBOF up two notches for that input to compensate.

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post #485 of 2973 Old 09-30-2005, 06:59 PM
 
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Ken you have made my day!

Thanks a bunch buddy, i'll try these out later
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post #486 of 2973 Old 09-30-2005, 07:04 PM
 
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One more question just a quick one

what dvd's do you recommend that are good test for black level?

I heard "The Terminator" is one of them and pirates of the carribean any others?
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post #487 of 2973 Old 09-30-2005, 08:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrocHunter View Post

One more question just a quick one

what dvd's do you recommend that are good test for black level?

I have never thought of theatrical DVDs that way, believe it or not. There is a defined standard for DVD black, and it is present on both DVE and AVIA. Having set *that,* I have simply moved on to enjoying playing whatever DVDs I acquire. I have read that a few DVDs actually have a few shadows that are BTB, but I imagine one would spot that when viewing: just up the Brightness a bit. I watch many modern high-quality releases without adjustment of black level, and they seem just right. Others, I tinker.

Image quality is another story, and I am collecting a few titles just for judging my TV setup, cables, and (recently) a new DVD player. "Monsters, Inc" is at the top of the list for me. There's so much fur and other fine details rendered digitally from the CGI sources, not optically, that it's hard to beat. I have also been looking at the suggestions here:

http://www.filmsondisc.com/ISF_Refer...VD_Program.htm

No conclusions yet, and I don't yet have an external sound system for the TV. I'll have to comment on black-level-critical DVDs another time.

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post #488 of 2973 Old 09-30-2005, 08:42 PM
 
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Those two i mentioned above are excellent choices especially "The Terminator" that move was remasterd so good it looks like brand new movie, the detail and fidelity will astonish you!

sure there is a few scratches and specs in the presentation but what can you do, it's an old movie and they could only do so much with what they had.

"Pirates of the carribean" is deffinately a good one, many claim it to be a good torture test for black level.
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post #489 of 2973 Old 10-01-2005, 02:08 PM
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I just picked uo a 30xs955 and im ready to tinker. problem is all the wonderfull files that were posted earlier in the thread are not downloading. Any way they can be re posted? I very much appreciate your level of commitment to this set!
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post #490 of 2973 Old 10-01-2005, 09:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ptchristensen View Post

Let me elaborate a little on what Ken answered to this one. Overscan should be set on the standard input, 1080i or 480i/Full on Widescreen and 480i on 4:3, using the 2170D-1 and 2.

I'm just getting to the point (100+ hours on the clock) where I can start tweaking my 36XS955. For me, the major issue is major overscan when viewing the 1080i (16:9 on the 4:3 screen) mode.

pt's post suggests that I need to set overscan for the 480i input first -- then move on to 1080i. Is this right?

If so, are there separate control menus for the 1080i overscan, or do I still use 2170D-1 and 2? Do I also need to adjust the "shutters" I've read about in other posts?

I'm using the HDMI interface to connect my HD TiVo, feeding the HDNet test pattern, if that makes any difference.

Thanks, in advance.

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post #491 of 2973 Old 10-01-2005, 09:46 PM
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Originally Posted by TwinCityTVHound View Post

I'm just getting to the point (100+ hours on the clock) where I can start tweaking my 36XS955. For me, the major issue is major overscan when viewing the 1080i (16:9 on the 4:3 screen) mode.

Who told you that overscan is bad - Overscan is your friend...!

I have used months to perfect the geometry on my 34XBR960, and I still end up with 4% overscan. Sometime in the future I hope to find a magnet expert, so that I can fix the imperfections in the corners, and hopefully end up with less overscan.

Up to 5 % you do not really miss anything, thrust me. The station logo might be in a slightly different position, but it's a lot better than curvy lines in the corners. As long as the overscan is equal in width and height and below 5% you are fine.

You actually only set overscan once using 2170D-1 and 2 displaying the screen "default" signal, in your case a 480i signal. You might then have to use MID2 and MID3 to center and align the other signals.
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post #492 of 2973 Old 10-02-2005, 05:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KenTech View Post

I have some substantially improved image settings to recommend for different sources, based on these (for me) recent discoveries. Surprising improvements for SD broadcast and SD over S-video, and for DVD on component inputs, less so for HD broadcast.

KenTech - I have benefited so much from your earlier ones - I eagerly await this one. (Since most of what I watch is SD over S-Video.)
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post #493 of 2973 Old 10-02-2005, 07:10 PM
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Are there any service codes for horizontal convergence for the XBR960? I can only find the vertical ones in this thread. The vertical ones Kentech listed really helped a lot.
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post #494 of 2973 Old 10-02-2005, 08:28 PM
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I have made a recent observation on the first screen that appears when I enter the Service Menu on my 34XBR910. Normally I would not linger on this screen; instead going to the device name area I wish to tweak. This first screen shows the word VERSION on the top left and the word SERVICE on the top right, with a 0 0 listed listed between them. If you change it to 0 1 by pressing the 3 key on the Remote you will get a Subscreen with the words Software Version and the values:
M16C : 1.1C
MID-X : 1.012
VIPER : 2.00
I am wondering how these version values compare to other 34XBR910 owners. Wondering if any differences here have any bearing on the disparities that some of us have presented when tweaking. Any comments?
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post #495 of 2973 Old 10-05-2005, 07:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ptchristensen View Post

Who told you that overscan is bad - Overscan is your friend...!

==> snip <==

You actually only set overscan once using 2170D-1 and 2 displaying the screen "default" signal, in your case a 480i signal. You might then have to use MID2 and MID3 to center and align the other signals.

I understand the concept of overscan "hiding" ragged raster edges in SD. But I was under the impression that the HD signal should be "edge-to-edge." So, I was thinking there must be a separate overscan/offset for the letterbox HD display that appears within the 4:3 area of my Sony (36XS955).

Overscan looks a little excessive on 480i 4:3 material, compared to other sets in my house. But the *apparent* overscan on that 16:9 letterbox is much greater, if the HDNet test pattern can be believed.

Thanks for the tips...

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post #496 of 2973 Old 10-05-2005, 07:53 PM
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Originally Posted by TwinCityTVHound View Post

Overscan looks a little excessive on 480i 4:3 material, compared to other sets in my house. But the *apparent* overscan on that 16:9 letterbox is much greater, if the HDNet test pattern can be believed.

Since I have a 16:9 screen and I never tried correcting overscan on a 4:3 set, I was only speaking "in theory".

I will leave it to the several 955 users to guide you...!
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post #497 of 2973 Old 10-07-2005, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by ptchristensen View Post

Since I have a 16:9 screen and I never tried correcting overscan on a 4:3 set, I was only speaking "in theory".

I will leave it to the several 955 users to guide you...!

Actually your previous posts (and separate thread) have already helped me...a lot. Thanks!

Hopefully, KenTech -- who is a 36XS955 owner -- can clarify the procedure for setting 16:9 vs. 4:3 overscan.

P.S. Bottom-of-screen graphics and "tickers" are sometimes cut off in 16:9 mode, and the HDNet pattern is definitely missing something on all 4 sides.

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post #498 of 2973 Old 10-07-2005, 09:47 AM
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Great thread, thanks for posting the info on the service menu. I downloaded the PDF's and have tried repeatedly to press the button combo to enter the service menu. No matter how fast I hit the buttons, it will not let me in. What is your secret to getting in there?

I have two set specific questions for you guys also. I have set up the picture quality as best I can using AVIA via component DVD and also the old Video Standard LD via Svideo. I was impressed with how good picture and tint were right out of the box on this set.

My first question is about contrast setting. My old tv was a piece of cake to set, the needle pulse bent noticeably so I simply set contrast just below the point of bending. The power supply on this set must be a lot more robust, I can crank contrast up and the needle doesn't bend. Barring that, it is saying to set contrast where the white looks "really white", but I am not sure what that means. I wound up setting it at 28, just a bit below the default of 31.

Second question is about the screen setting. I want reverse letterbox to show up on 4:3 pics, and I want the true picture on all 16:9 and widescreen movies. No distortion or any of that. I thought I had it set right as my 4:3 pics were being reversed letterboxed, but all my DVD's were showing up inside a rectangle in the center of the screen. I can set widescreen viewing to "full" and then they stretch out, or "full zoom" but I want to make sure I am seeing the movie as intended.

My perpetual home theater build - Omaha Theater #5
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post #499 of 2973 Old 10-08-2005, 11:01 AM
 
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D-CONVERGANCE

Well guys turns out you can actually fix the convergance on these sony sets,i have the 34hs420 and did some touch up yesterday and there was a very noticeable improvement in sharpness and clarity of the picture.

Theres only one problem though, it's for adjusting vertical lines only, for horizontal lines you will have to live with what you have since they can only be adjusted with magnets.

Not sure if anyones tried these convergance tweaks, but i say be my guest and tell me how you do.

Matt Suzuki~
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post #500 of 2973 Old 10-08-2005, 11:03 AM
 
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Great thread, thanks for posting the info on the service menu. I downloaded the PDF's and have tried repeatedly to press the button combo to enter the service menu. No matter how fast I hit the buttons, it will not let me in. What is your secret to getting in there?

Just keep trying you will get in trust me
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post #501 of 2973 Old 10-08-2005, 03:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrocHunter View Post

There's only one problem though, it's for adjusting vertical lines only, for horizontal lines you will have to live with what you have since they can only be adjusted with magnets.

Not sure if anyones tried these convergence tweaks, but i say be my guest and tell me how you do.

I have a 34XBR960 and I've worked with both magnets and the service menu.

When I first bought my set, it was in relatively poor shape and I had a Sony factory tech come out to adjust the convergence problems. He used some magnets, and some service menu tweaks, but I wasn't really satisfied when he decided it was "close enough" and "met factory specs".

I called Sony again, and this time got the name of some local authorized service guys, and authorization to have one of them come over for a "second opinion". I was quite lucky to pick someone who was very attentive to perfection and was willing to spend 2 hours on his first visit (before he ran out of magnets) and another hour on his self-initiated second visit (with a fresh supply of magnets) to complete the job. Of course after his magnet work we (and then me alone) worked on the service menu convergence adjustments to optimize things, based on his new magnet placements.

So there really is no way to share the convergence tweaks from one set to another... they are each unique by set, because magnet placement on each set is totally unique. They all come from the factory with assorted magnets already placed by factory techs (during final checkout, I would imagine, to get "close enough" and so that it "meets factory specs"), which will be different for each and every set.

Since the then-needed vertical line convergence tweaks in the service menu (D-CONV group) are really a function of how your set finally turned out based on its magnet placement (yes, magnets must be used to "cure" horizontal line convergence issues but will obviously also affect vertical lines as well), about the only thing that can be said is "to each his own", and "YMMV".

However there's no question the D-CONV group can have significant results improving things, in the vertical line convergence arena. My own tweaks concentrated on D-CONV 0-11, with some minor and some major changes.

All in all I feel the magnet work and D-CONV tweaks to have given me stellar results.
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post #502 of 2973 Old 10-08-2005, 10:17 PM
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Originally Posted by DSperber View Post

I have a 34XBR960 and I've worked with both magnets and the service menu.

All in all I feel the magnet work and D-CONV tweaks to have given me stellar results.

DSperber - Three questions:

- Did you get the magnet work done under the sony warranty?
- Were your problems only convergence, or did you also have geometry issues?
- I'm also in Marina Del Rey...if you want to share the name of the magnet guy, please PM contact information.
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post #503 of 2973 Old 10-08-2005, 10:22 PM
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Originally Posted by nebrunner View Post

No matter how fast I hit the buttons, it will not let me in. What is your secret to getting in there?

Remember the TV has to OFF before you hit the combination: display, 5, +vol, power on...!
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post #504 of 2973 Old 10-08-2005, 10:44 PM
 
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Nice to know i'm not the only one that has made improvements just by using the D-CONVERGANCE settings

For me it was the very top and bottom of the picture that needed convergance tweaking a bit since there were obvious color fringes there.After using some of the D-Convergance tweaks the color fringing is gone and it's more sharper now.

Point taken...Use D-Convergance to fix some minor convergance problems, i know they helped me out very well, not perfect but it much more better overall.
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post #505 of 2973 Old 10-09-2005, 12:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ptchristensen
- Did you get the magnet work done under the sony warranty?
Yes.

The initial factory tech visit (perhaps 1 week after the set was delivered to me) was arranged by Sony. I don't actually know where he came from. Free visit to me.

The second visit, from a local authorized service place, was also free to me. His follow-up visit (because he'd run out of magnets on the first trip) was also free to me, but he simply might not have told Sony and done it on his own because of the incomplete first trip. Very sincere.


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- Were your problems only convergence, or did you also have geometry issues?
As would be expected, I had both. And of course this makes geometry placement quite an art. A magnet affects not only convergence but the entire electron beam, which means even geometry can be affected (adversely or beneficially) while trying to cure convergence problems.

As it turns out, we were able to use magnets to reduce some of the more gross bow/curvature artifacts along with pincusion and trapezoid problems (especially obvious in the corners of course) and even some S-curves more in the middle of straight lines, working very carefully to not disturb the convergence corrections we had also implemented. As would be expected, the results were not absolutely 100% perfect, and some compromises (from me, really) were necessary. But outside of the test patterns where you can really see the problems and effects of the magnets, most actual live HDTV content looks perfect.

So once the magnet work was complete and we didn't want to fool with it anymore for fear of tampering with "success", I proceeded to work (on my own) with the full set of 2170D-1 and 2170D-2 groups, moving little-by-little all around the screen and trying to get "rectangularity" and "linearity" where previously I might have seen distortions. I am extremely pleased with my final results.

Just recently, in response to the Oct.1 premiere of "Saturday Night Live" in HD and the misplacement of the upconverted SD bug, I became aware that I also had misadjusted my overscan. I think I must have done this using a DVD-provided test image at 480p (from Digital Video Essentials) and INPUT5 on the set. Whatever the explanation, it was clearly off as the misplaced NBC bug was 50% cut off, partially because of their misplacement and partially because of my wrong overscan adjustment.

So last week I worked on re-sizing and re-centering, and reducing horizontal and vertical overscan. This time I connected my XBR960 to my PC (DVI output of ATI Radeon 9800 Pro to component video INPUT6 of the TV via ATI adapter, running at 1080i resolution using ATI 5.8 Catalyst drivers) and used a 1920x1080 convergence/overscan test pattern from DisplayMate for Windows Video Edition (attached to this post). Preliminary adjustments were entirely in the 2170D-1 (0-1, for vertical position and size of the raster) and 2170D-2 (1-2, for horizontal position and size of the raster) groups, followed by overscan adjustments within the now adjusted raster using MID3 (0-3, for horizontal and vertical position and size). I'm quite surprised at how much better things now look, and how much broadcast content I was previously losing before this recent tuning effort.

Much to my surprise, some previous residual geometry and linearity distortions around the extreme perimiter of the screen (which I never could quite tweak out) now seem to have been greatly reduced. To my eye, permiter lines and corners seem much more linear and rectangular than before. Perhaps I was previously "stretching" things unnaturally and now, with proper re-sizing and re-centering and much reduced overscan, things are being displayed with proper proportions and H/V dimension ratios, and thus appear much more linear.

Whatever the explanation, adjusting size/center and overscan using 2170D-1 (0-1), 2170D-2 (1-2), and finally MID3 (0-3) has seemingly had a positive effect on geometry and lineary as well, but that may be partially optical illusion since everything is just a tiny bit smaller now (with reduced overscan, more picture is now being displayed in the same 16x9 34" screen area).

NOTE: I think a real test of your adjustments is on ESPN-HD, when they're showing 4x3 content and have those gray vertical areas on the left and right to fill out the 16x9. The gray areas are striped, with thin black stripes against the gray background. And they're supposed to be truly vertical stripes, and black. Depending on your convergence settings and other geometry/linearity settings, anything not perfect will be quite visible in these two gray areas. On my set, the black stripes left side were initially way out (and almost rainbow-like) while the stripes on the right side were virtually pure black. Now, they're both very very similar (although the left side black stripes are not quite pure black as the right side stripes still are, but they're very very close and at least they're not chromatic and rainbow any longer). I think this content is the real proof of your overall convergence tuning and geometry tuning, whether by magnets or service menu tweaks. I know I always fall back to it as my "real world" test.


Quote:
- I'm also in Marina Del Rey...if you want to share the name of the magnet guy, please PM contact information.
No need for secrecy or privacy. The guy deserves some promotion.

Ask for Andy, at Audio Video Shoppe (on Teale St. in Culver City). 310-306-4600. They're authorized service providers for lots of brands, including Sony.

 

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post #506 of 2973 Old 10-09-2005, 01:39 AM
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Originally Posted by DSperber View Post

Ask for Andy, at Audio Video Shoppe (on Teale St. in Culver City). 310-306-4600. They're authorized service providers for lots of brands, including Sony.

Thanks for the info, good people should always be shared and promoted...!

You are not the only one falling back to the ESPN side bars. I recieve my HD signal through Comcasts Motorola 6412 DVR. So I also use the Saturday morning test signal from INHD and I always test my 480i signal against the NBC Weather Plus channel.

But since i discovered the Sony QM menu I mostly use these test patterns for my geometry adventures.
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post #507 of 2973 Old 10-09-2005, 12:46 PM
 
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Is there a black level adjustment for both s-video and composite? It seems UBOF is the same for video1-4, and i would like to tweak the black level for both composite and s-video since they both have different black levels.

Is there any items other than UBOF,SBRT ?

The reason being is because if i tweak composite perfectly, then s-video is to dark..so when i brighten up s-video to get it perfect then composite video get's messed up and smokey.

Is there an adjsutment to adjust these two items seperately? or do i just have to make a compromise?
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post #508 of 2973 Old 10-10-2005, 09:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ptchristensen View Post

Remember the TV has to OFF before you hit the combination: display, 5, +vol, power on...!



Right! Tv is off, I am hitting these buttons...nothing. I am not 80 and have shaking hands either, I am 34 and can still score 750,000 points in a game of Robotron. I think you guys are all just crazy

This button combination does not work on my 30xs955. Are you hitting them all at once or sequentially?

My perpetual home theater build - Omaha Theater #5
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post #509 of 2973 Old 10-10-2005, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by nebrunner View Post

Right! Tv is off, I am hitting these buttons...nothing. I am not 80 and have shaking hands either, I am 34 and can still score 750,000 points in a game of Robotron. I think you guys are all just crazy

This button combination does not work on my 30xs955. Are you hitting them all at once or sequentially?

This is a hard one to explain, but...!

On my remote, I do the following:

- Power Off
In a "flowing" succession I push
- Display (round button, buttom right)
- 5 (the number 5 buttom)
- +Vol (the upper part of the volume button)
- Power On

When the TV comes on you will see 3-4 lines of codes and numbers on top of the normal TV picture.
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post #510 of 2973 Old 10-12-2005, 02:47 PM
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Hi DSperber,

Can you please explain in more detail how to adjust horiz and vert size/pos with the 2170D-1, 2170D-2, and MID3 settings for overscan. I have always used only the 2170D ones (left MID3 as is) - no wonder why I can't get things exactly right! I don't have a PC attached to the TV but I can use a Denon DVD player playing VE/AVIA that outputs 480p/720p/1080i via DVI or HDMI.

BTW I have the 30XBR910

thanks!

Joe

Quote:
Originally Posted by DSperber View Post



So last week I worked on re-sizing and re-centering, and reducing horizontal and vertical overscan. This time I connected my XBR960 to my PC (DVI output of ATI Radeon 9800 Pro to component video INPUT6 of the TV via ATI adapter, running at 1080i resolution using ATI 5.8 Catalyst drivers) and used a 1920x1080 convergence/overscan test pattern from DisplayMate for Windows Video Edition (attached to this post). Preliminary adjustments were entirely in the 2170D-1 (0-1, for vertical position and size of the raster) and 2170D-2 (1-2, for horizontal position and size of the raster) groups, followed by overscan adjustments within the now adjusted raster using MID3 (0-3, for horizontal and vertical position and size). I'm quite surprised at how much better things now look, and how much broadcast content I was previously losing before this recent tuning effort.

Much to my surprise, some previous residual geometry and linearity distortions around the extreme perimiter of the screen (which I never could quite tweak out) now seem to have been greatly reduced. To my eye, permiter lines and corners seem much more linear and rectangular than before. Perhaps I was previously "stretching" things unnaturally and now, with proper re-sizing and re-centering and much reduced overscan, things are being displayed with proper proportions and H/V dimension ratios, and thus appear much more linear.

Whatever the explanation, adjusting size/center and overscan using 2170D-1 (0-1), 2170D-2 (1-2), and finally MID3 (0-3) has seemingly had a positive effect on geometry and lineary as well, but that may be partially optical illusion since everything is just a tiny bit smaller now (with reduced overscan, more picture is now being displayed in the same 16x9 34" screen area).

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