THE SONY SERVICE CODES - Articles, Comments, Discoveries - Page 18 - AVS Forum
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post #511 of 2973 Old 10-12-2005, 08:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcardani View Post

Can you please explain in more detail how to adjust horiz and vert size/pos with the 2170D-1, 2170D-2, and MID3 settings for overscan.

Well, first I believe there are separate memories for 480p/720p/1080i (I may be wrong here), or else there are just separate memories for INPUT5 and INPUT6. One way or the other, I show different service menu values when I adjust with a test pattern from DVE (480p on INPUT5) vs. when I adjust with a test pattern from my PC (DMWVE overscan test image, 1080i on INPUT6). However whatever the actual settings are, the general tweaking approach is the same.

(1) Using DVE, I went to Title 12 (Display Setup Patterns) and then Chapter 17 (1:33 overscan pattern). On my 34XBR960 the test pattern will display automatically in FULL mode (i.e. 16x9), although I can use the MODE button to get it back to 4:3 if I wanted to (but I don't). So now I'm looking at that pattern in 16x9. It has extreme edges, as well as interior rectangles and gradation markings reflecting the various percentages of overscan.

The following recipe will probably require several iterations, going back through 2170D-1, 2170D-2 and MID3 until you're totally satisfied. So don't just stop with your first try. Also, you will want to verify that you have proper alignment on all of your inputs... since it appears there are separate memories for each.

Don't forget to write down your current settings for each input before you start.

(2) Power the TV off, and then enter service mode (Display, 5, Volume +, Power). Then press 2 repeatedly until you get to the 2170D-1 group for vertical alignment. Use 5 to go back if you "overshoot" the group.

Once in 2170D-1 I used only 0 (VPOS vertical position) and 1 (VSIZ vertical size) to adjust vertically, using 1/4 buttons to go back and forth between 0 and 1, and using 3/6 buttons to adjust that item up or down.

To sense the effect of each 3/6 tweak, push the key just one unit at a time and watch what happens on the screen. It will be obvious what you're changing, and when you've reached (or exceeded) where you should probably be.

When you're satisfied that you have centered and sized vertically (using the gradations and overscan percentage rectangles as your general guide), move on.

(3) Press 2 to move into 2170D-2, where I used only 1 (HPOS horizontal position) and 2 (HSIZ horizontal size), again using 1/4 buttons to go back and forth between 1 and 2, and using 3/6 buttons to adjust that item up or down.

Again, try your best to get the best (or expected) amount of size and centering in the horizontal direction. You may want to go back to 2170D-1 and fool around some more with vertical arrangement.

Again, use 3/6 one unit at a time and watch what happens on the screen. Even though you haven't gotten to MID3 yet, you can still sense when what you currently have is optimal or not.

(4) When satisfied that you have the vertical and horizontal size and centering done acceptably (for now, anyway), press 2 repeatedly until you get to MID3.

The adjustments with 2170D-1 and 2170D-2 are conceptually the "raster" (i.e. the "canvas"), which is sort of the background upon which the actual image will then be displayed... located on your physical screen according to your VPOS, VSIZ, HPOS and HSIZ settings.

Then, the "image" dimensions and position (on top of the "canvas") is what is controlled by MID3. So in a sense, you can have a larger background than an actual image on top of that background, and the image can be moved around and resized on top of the background using the MID3 controls.

That's why you try to maximize/optimize the "background raster" with 2170D-1 and 2170D-2, in anticipation of properly sizing and placing the "image" on top of it using MID3. Obviously you want to end up with the image size and canvas size the same, which would make the image extend out to the edges of the screen just like the conceptual raster background underneath it. This maximizes the amount of image you see, wasting nothing of your 16x9 screen real estate.

I don't know why Sony decided to implement this whole thing as "layers" (a la Photoshop) but they did. So you just have to go through this 2-step process of first spreading out the canvas to fill your screen, and then spreading out the image on top of the canvas to also fill the screen. What's up to you to control is just how much overscan you impute through your settings, meaning how much of the perimiter image you are willing to lose.

Once at MID3, you use 0 (VDHP horizontal position), 1 (VDHS horizontal size), 2 (VDVE vertical position) and 3 (VDVS vertical size) to manipulate the "image" on top of the "background" (i.e. within the "background raster"). Again, use 3/6 buttons to adjust one unit at a time up or down and watch what happens on the screen. It will be obvious what you're doing and what effect you're having.

Try to adjust things so that you have maximum amount of screen real estate covered, with symmetrical alignment of the 5% overscan rectangle a bit inside the extreme perimiter of the screen... depending on your likes. I suppose you can align things so that you have essentially 0% overscan (where the extreme outside of the test pattern rectangle is uniformly visible around the edges of the screen) but that may let in some video noise depending on what you're watching. It's more likely to see that video noise when a channel broadcasts 4x3 content inside their 16x9 digital presentation (e.g. "Curb Your Enthusiasm" on HBOHD).

In other words, shooting for approximately 1-3% overscan is probably a good idea, and will keep you from screaming at the set when you see video noise. Better not to deal with that.

(5) Once you get used to what you're doing with MID3 and the image stretching, sliding, etc., you can go back to 2170D-1 and 2170D-2 to see if you can perfect things a bit more. And then of course you'll come back to MID3 and tweak again.

This is a delicate process, but you will clearly see what you're accomplishing as you use 3/6 one unit at a time in either direction. It will be very obvious that you're either helping things or hurting things.

(6) Again, I recommend doing this for each of your inputs (INPUT5 and INPUT6 in my case, as I use INPUT5 for DVD/480p and INPUT6 for HD/720p/1080i), at least to determine where the separate memories are... are they by input, or by resolution? Based on my experience there definitely are separate memories for my 1080i (PC, INPUT6) and 480p (DVD, INPUT5) efforts.

(7) Finally, although you can tweak your heart out with a test pattern, you still want to double-check what you've done with realworld content that you're familiar with. For example, the Leno show is excellent as a test because it's wonderful picture quality and essentially a stationary image very night. Also, you might want to look at other film-based high quality shows (e.g. CSI, original, Lost, Rome) to be sure that the HxW proportions of your adusted image looks correct. Images that have the wrong H or W proportions will look squashed or stretched in the horizontal or vertical directions, and people's faces are good tests of that. Going to 0% overscan on a small screen might make the images look too small, whereas going up to 3% might be just enough "enlargement" to make things look more appealing. Of course if you've used your test patterns properly the realworld test should be just fine.

Hope this helps.
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post #512 of 2973 Old 10-12-2005, 09:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DSperber View Post

(6) Again, I recommend doing this for each of your inputs (INPUT5 and INPUT6 in my case, as I use INPUT5 for DVD/480p and INPUT6 for HD/720p/1080i), at least to determine where the separate memories are... are they by input, or by resolution? Based on my experience there definitely are separate memories for my 1080i (PC, INPUT6) and 480p (DVD, INPUT5) efforts.

Excellent explanation. Since you are not mentioning 480i, I just want to add that 480i viewed through the tuner has to be corrected using MID2, 0-3

There are so many different size settings to use in the service menu that I'm convinced that they are a sign of "patching" and adding to older versions, rather than planning for a specific model.

I still have no idea how and when to use the global size settings in MID1, 0-3 and the half global settings of MID1, 8-11.
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post #513 of 2973 Old 10-13-2005, 06:30 AM
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Hi DSperber,

Thanks for a wonderful explanation of this process! I will try this on my set ASAP. I have to order DVE (I just have VE and AVIA). As for separate memories for MID3, there are but I have to check the service manual. I think that most of the 2170D-1 and 2170D-2 settings are global - but I will check to make sure.


thanks,

Joe
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post #514 of 2973 Old 10-13-2005, 06:42 AM
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Hi DSperber,

Just thought of this - since KenTech posted so many great tutorials (15 I believe) in this thread, it would be a great idea to add a few more -

(1) Geometry/overscan witht he 2170D-1 and 2170D-2 groups and
(2) adjusting vertical convergence with the D-CONV group.

I know that geometry adjustments are very tricky and I am sure there is a preferred method for this. The hardest for me is where should I start since they all interact with each other. A recommended procedure for this would be a great benefit!

Same with D-conv group for vertical convergence, but obviously horizontal convergence would be outside of the scope of this forum because you need to use the permalloy magnets.

It would be wonderful if you can explain these 2 processes.

thanks,

Joe
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post #515 of 2973 Old 10-13-2005, 04:03 PM
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When viewing widescreen movies that have top and bottom borders, the left top curves downward, and the bottom left curves upward.

However my right side is straight. Is there a setting to help adjust this? I could not find anything.

Thanks.
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post #516 of 2973 Old 10-13-2005, 04:12 PM
 
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Believe it or not them D-Convergance tweaks helped my set a lot, i never used them untill now.Now in 4:3 mode there is'nt color fringing near the black borders nice
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post #517 of 2973 Old 10-13-2005, 04:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ev01vEd View Post

When viewing widescreen movies that have top and bottom borders, the left top curves downward, and the bottom left curves upward.

However my right side is straight. Is there a setting to help adjust this? I could not find anything.

Thanks.


2170D-1, 9 HTPZ (H-Trapezoid)

If you cannot get rid of all af the curve, you need need to check your centering of the raster.
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post #518 of 2973 Old 10-13-2005, 04:25 PM
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I have a 30xs955 and after lots of playing and reading, I've come up with very similar procedures for sizing/centering as recently described. I have a few comments and questions.

1) I have found that setting equal overscan on all sides does not necessarily give the right proportions and one must use a test pattern such as on DVE with a perfect circle and make sure it's vertical and horizontal size is identical. This does not seem to give equal vertical and horizontal overscan on my set. Any thoughts on this one?

2) I have also found that centering based on a center point on the screen does not necessarily perfected center the edges of the screen. What have others been using to center?

3) I have found that HSIZE is a global setting and hence must be used to correctly size the raster for a correct 4:3 width on a 16x9 set. I just did the math based on the height of the screen. How have others been doing this?
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post #519 of 2973 Old 10-13-2005, 07:59 PM
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Hello all,

I have read this entire thread and feel like I am ready to dive into some image tweaking! My set is a Sony KV32HS500 that has a memory stick slot. I downloaded KenTech's images and put them on a memory stick that I have and the TV does not see the images at all. They have been placed into a folder named DCIM at the root level of the MS. I also put a photo from a digital sony camera in there as well and I can see the small image, but I can not display the full screen image on the TV. What am I doing wrong? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.


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post #520 of 2973 Old 10-15-2005, 06:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by confinoj View Post

I have a 30xs955 and after lots of playing and reading, I've come up with very similar procedures for sizing/centering as recently described. I have a few comments and questions.

1) I have found that setting equal overscan on all sides does not necessarily give the right proportions and one must use a test pattern such as on DVE with a perfect circle and make sure it's vertical and horizontal size is identical. This does not seem to give equal vertical and horizontal overscan on my set. Any thoughts on this one?

2) I have also found that centering based on a center point on the screen does not necessarily perfected center the edges of the screen. What have others been using to center?

3) I have found that HSIZE is a global setting and hence must be used to correctly size the raster for a correct 4:3 width on a 16x9 set. I just did the math based on the height of the screen. How have others been doing this?

- I start by setting all MID1, MID2 and MID3 size menues to their default settings.
- Then I do the raster centering like described in service manual 2-8.
- Then the 2170D-1 and 2 settings.
- Ending with the MID2 and MID3 fine tuning.

If the MID settings are not set to default you might not be able to get correct proportions in the 2170D menues. I suspect that this is be because the size settings in 2170D1 and 2 works from the center out, whereas the MID settings works from the top and side.
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post #521 of 2973 Old 10-16-2005, 09:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloner View Post

Hello all,

I have read this entire thread and feel like I am ready to dive into some image tweaking! My set is a Sony KV32HS500 that has a memory stick slot. I downloaded KenTech's images and put them on a memory stick that I have and the TV does not see the images at all. They have been placed into a folder named DCIM at the root level of the MS. I also put a photo from a digital sony camera in there as well and I can see the small image, but I can not display the full screen image on the TV. What am I doing wrong? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.


Cloner

You must create a subfolder within the root DCIM folder called 100MSDCF. Place all your images inside this subfolder. This should solve your problem.
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post #522 of 2973 Old 10-16-2005, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by jjmilo View Post

You must create a subfolder within the root DCIM folder called 100MSDCF. Place all your images inside this subfolder. This should solve your problem.


Thanks for the reply. I did that when I got home. I am only able to display a photo taken with the camera. None of the jpg images will display. I get an file error on the TV screen. I am trying a few things using photoshop and see what happens. If you think of anything else, please let me know!!!


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post #523 of 2973 Old 10-26-2005, 10:38 AM
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geometry code for kv-29x2b.
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post #524 of 2973 Old 10-26-2005, 01:27 PM
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So has anybody tried adjusting the yoke or magnets at all yet? I have an issue with my 36HS20 where horizontal lines slope slightly downwards on the left side of the screen which I've tried and failed to fix in service mode. If it's reasonable to make some manual adjustments though, I'd be up for it.

Jonathan
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post #525 of 2973 Old 10-27-2005, 01:09 PM
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XS955:XBR960 Service Data.pdf is broken....

can some one please fix it or let me know where I can find it?
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post #526 of 2973 Old 10-27-2005, 01:31 PM
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Been trying to cal the greyscale on my HS420 set (see the whole story on the AVS cal forum).

Basically, what I'm finding is there is a lot of cross color contamination from both the RF & CV/YC inputs !!
The color slider is just a gain control but all the other offsets + leakage cause both the greyscale & general color palette to move around quite a bit.

From the measurement I took with Sencore colorimeter (older CP288), as you turn up the color slider there is about an 8-10% reduction in red & 10-15% reduction in blue. the componet input also has this issue (about5% red/10% blue).
The component is probably better since it does not have any of the leakage issues with the tuner or Cv/YC inputs ??

There are some posts on similar issues a few months back on this forum between KenTech and GlenC (ISF guy) but no one ever resolved the issues.

Is there a better way to cal the D65 greyscale and then color decoder or is it just best to get it close and do the rest by eye ??

Todd
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post #527 of 2973 Old 10-27-2005, 10:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KenTech View Post

03 - COLOR CALIBRATION AND BLACK LEVEL

(snip)

Go to code-group 2170P-1. Leave red settings alone. Look out the window at those clouds. Look back at the TV, and set #7-GDRV (green) and #8-BDRV (blue) until the whites are *white* to your eyes. Go between the outdoor view and the TV (big brightness difference, unfortunately) until you get it right. Cycle among your TV channels for different material to verify you're getting it right. Unless you have a color-perception problem, your eyes don't lie: if it looks white, it is white. The clouds calibrate your eyes for a short time.

Now sit in front of the TV, and adjust #10-GCUT (green) and #11-BCUT (blue) until the darkest areas *match* the color of those whites. There is some interaction here, so twiddle until you think you've got it: a really good B/W picture with very few off-color areas. Note that too-bright white areas may develop pinkish or greenish casts from heating of the CRTs aperture-grille wires - a drawback to the big tubes. Lower the Picture setting if that's the case. You should be able to get a B/W display that maintains consistent color from shadows thru highlights.

Howdy folks. Bit late to the party here! I bought my humble 30hs420 in February, before this wonderful thread, when info was a bit more hazy. An enormous thanks to Ken for his power-to-the-people Sony hacking, and Glen for his pro perspective.

Anyway, I've been tweaking since I bought the set, here and there. I understand how important accurate grayscale is before getting into color, and that's why the above section of Ken's 3rd article is something I want to do right. I tried this method out today and already have a much more appealing picture, but I'll be honest, I really had to ballpark it, and I'd like to do better. I'm talking about the second paragraph, where you try to tune your grays to be neutral in color. Using GCUT and BCUT, I can only clearly tell I've gone too far in one direction when it becomes quite pronounced (kind of sepia with BCUT too low, for example, or magenta on GCUT). There's a large area within each parameter where I am simply unsure if my grays are being tinted or not.

Given that I've seen today what even a rough calibration in this area can do to pop life into the picture, I would very much appreciate some help in getting these GCUT and BCUT settings as good as they can be. How do you all judge your grays with this tweak?

I'm mostly using a pattern from DVE with two sets of gray swatches that run in opposite directions across the screen. I forget the title/chapter number. I have the color set to zero as suggested by Ken.

(I did have great success today with the focus adjustments listed near the beginning of the thread. It was nice to finally have those SM settings explained.)
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post #528 of 2973 Old 10-28-2005, 05:21 PM
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I have a small problem with the 720p and 1080i modes on a 32hs420 (on the HDMI interface). The 16:9 Enhanced mode (v-compression) automatically kicks in when using these, and I can't disable it using the normal menu (it only has Auto and On).

I'm using an Oppo upconverting DVD player, and this becomes an issue on 4:3 DVD's. Is there any way to disabling this automatic v-compression from the service menu?

Thanks!
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post #529 of 2973 Old 10-28-2005, 07:16 PM
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Here's a newbie question for everyone: what is "landing?" I'm having the magnetic discoloration problem that at least one other person has mentioned in this thread. It's a small patch in the upper right hand corner. I've tried different positions of the TV and the surrounding components, but the current splotch is the best I've been able to get. However, pumping up the landing gets rid of it. The problem is I don't know what that does, and I don't want to hurt my set unintentionally.

So what is it? The default settings in the service menu are:
LT - 197
LB - 197
RT - 91
RB - 92

When I increase the RT landing to 168-ish, the splotch disappears. Please tell me what I'm doing.
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post #530 of 2973 Old 10-31-2005, 11:15 AM
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Landing? Anyone?
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post #531 of 2973 Old 10-31-2005, 08:41 PM
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Much like Cloner's post above, I can't get the calibration JPEGs to display on my screen because the TV just spits out "File Error."

Oddly, when plugged into my Sony PSP, they display perfectly. Perhaps some models are itchy about pictures not taken by a camera? I have a non-Sony camera but got pictures I took to appear on the screen by following the naming convention. Didn't have any similar success here.

Model is KV-34HS510, for the record.

EDITED: According to a Google search, running the graphics through this program should make them more compatable with the TV's memory stick reader. They just have to follow the Sony camera settings.
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post #532 of 2973 Old 11-01-2005, 10:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin Fletcher View Post

Landing? Anyone?

I only note that this guy had similar success with the LANDING settings.

I checked some of my service menu docs. The Sony service manuals I have do not explain what LANDING is, but one of the many circulated user-written tables lists your four LANDING numbers as "LCC Controls" for each corner (RT=right top, LB=left bottom etc). I don't know what LCC means, but it might put you one step farther along the path, Justin.
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post #533 of 2973 Old 11-01-2005, 12:53 PM
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Thanks for the link. I had seen that post, but his "Try at your own risk" warnings scared me off, which is why I was looking for clarification on what landing actually does. I was also curious as to whether the settings needed to be balanced for each side of the screen (i.e. should I set the bottom right to the same number as the top right?).

Still, he didn't write back in to say "Holy God, my TV exploded!" so if no one can provide any additional info, I may just cross my fingers and give it a shot.
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post #534 of 2973 Old 11-01-2005, 09:07 PM
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Indeed, 4:3 DVD's are a problem. You can set the Oppo in Wide/SQZ mode and then use the TV's zoom, but the proportions are still not accurate and image quality takes a large hit.

One solution here would be to forget upscaling and use 480p, where v-compression is not automatically enabled. But the 480p doesn't work - the image keeps jumping up and down. Component out is useless too, unless you can live with interlaced 480. I've also seen a post by another Sony owner that had the same problem. Oppo + Sony HS TV doesn't seem to work so well, unfortunately ... Oppo tech support was very friendly and willing to help, but they did not know how to fix it. They sent a note to their engineering department. No news since then.

I was hoping I could find some setting in the service menu to turn off the v-comp, but no luck so far.

I'll probably return the Oppo. Although it has better image quality than my old DVD player, the Sony 480p issue and the extensive macroblocking I get from the Faroudja processor make it hard to live with.

I ordered a Sony DVPNS70H from CircuitCity to see how it compares (it arrives tomorrow). Maybe it will do better...

Hopefully you won't have the same issue (I really don't know if it is a problem for all HS Sony TV's).
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post #535 of 2973 Old 11-02-2005, 08:00 AM
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Jim,

The links still work for me. I just clicked the "service data chart" attachment and it came right up. Have you got something that can read .pdf files?
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post #536 of 2973 Old 11-03-2005, 05:49 PM
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A quick note: I got the Sony DVPNS70H and hooked it to the 32HS420. I don't have a HDMI-HDMI cable yet, so I used the 480p component output (no upscaling). The image quality is significantly better than the Oppo at 720p over HDMI! It has a significant ... wow factor. I'm curious to see if 70H's 720p will actually improve on that. It would be quite a feat.

From what I see, there's almost no macroblocking, and the image is visibly sharper. I will miss the Divx and the slightly more natural Faroudja colors of the Oppo, but the Sony 70H is a keeper.

It would still be nice to know how to disable that HS420 auto v-comp though. Calling Sony's tech support was a big waste of time ...
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post #537 of 2973 Old 11-04-2005, 08:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Costi View Post

A quick note: I got the Sony DVPNS70H and hooked it to the 32HS420. The image quality is significantly better than the Oppo at 720p over HDMI! I'm curious to see if 70H's 720p will actually improve on that.

CRTs are incapapable of 720p. I believe they'd "upscale" 720p to 1080i.
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post #538 of 2973 Old 11-04-2005, 01:05 PM
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CRTs are incapapable of 720p. I believe they'd "upscale" 720p to 1080i.

That is news to me...!
What are you basing your conclusions on? I have different settings for 480i, 480p, 720p and 1080i in the service menu for my CRT-34XBR960.
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post #539 of 2973 Old 11-04-2005, 02:58 PM
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As far as I know you cannot disable the 16:9 vertical compression on the 4:3 sets for 720p and 1080i sources. The assumption is if it's 720p or 1080i, it is a 16:9 image. You will have to set your player to output no more than 480p for 4:3 sources.
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post #540 of 2973 Old 11-04-2005, 03:23 PM
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That is news to me...!
What are you basing your conclusions on? I have different settings for 480i, 480p, 720p and 1080i in the service menu for my CRT-34XBR960.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...highlight=720p
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