THE SONY SERVICE CODES - Articles, Comments, Discoveries - Page 24 - AVS Forum
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post #691 of 2962 Old 01-10-2006, 04:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ncasebee View Post

I drilled a hole and diddled with my focus pot. The pot adjusts the ENTIRE screen. It makes a huge huge difference. I followed Kentec's article on precision focusing exactly. It's still not where I want it. The bottom right and right is constantly blurry, and I have attempted a refocus twice now. I follow the article exactly. The blurry on the right and not the left is even worse than just blurry. The uneveness is even more noticable.

Right now, I am back at my original settings with the focus nob adjusted for best overall focus while I research more. The focus nob has a point where all the extremeties come into their best focus, and this is where I have it at now, without any Service Menu adjustments. The side and corner focus is still nowhere near the center focus however.

Don't use the pot for fine adjustment especially for the corners, it is for coarse adjustment in the center of the screen. There are magnetic rings around the neck of the tube for corner adjsutment but don't mess with them, your'e gonna end up chasing your tail. Get the pot back to where it was and stick with the service menu adjustments in which there are many. You really need to get the service manual.

You can finely adjust the center in D-CONV as well as the corners. Here are some of the defintions but I don't remember all of them. Start with the center and work your way out. Make sure they are back to the factor settings before you readjust the pot

D-CONV
(CXA8070)
0 YBWU 0-63
1 YBWL 0-63
2 RSAP 0-63
3 RUMB 0-63[ right upper
4 RUBW 0-63; right upper
5 RLMB 0-63; right lower
6 RLBW 0-63; right lower
7 LSAP 0-63
8 LUMB 0-63; left upper
9 LUBW 0-63; left upper
10 LLMB 0-63; left lower
11 LLBW 0-63; left lower
12 CADJ 0-63; center adjust
13 HVCA 0-63
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post #692 of 2962 Old 01-10-2006, 05:54 PM
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Don't use the pot for fine adjustment especially for the corners, it is for coarse adjustment in the center of the screen. There are magnetic rings around the neck of the tube for corner adjsutment but don't mess with them, your'e gonna end up chasing your tail. Get the pot back to where it was and stick with the service menu adjustments in which there are many. You really need to get the service manual.

You can finely adjust the center in D-CONV as well as the corners. Here are some of the defintions but I don't remember all of them. Start with the center and work your way out. Make sure they are back to the factor settings before you readjust the pot

So my problem is convergence as well? I need this answered. People are using "convergence" and "focus" in the same sentences, and I don't understand. Is my fuzzy text in certain areas of the screen a focus problem or a convergance problem?

When you said. "Get the pot back to where it was and stick with the service menu adjustments in which there are many." Which pot position do you want? The one where I focus it for best center focus via Kentec's Guide, or the setting I have now, which seems to make the outsides of the screen the clearest with my original Service Menu settings?

Thankyou for informing me of this. I will remember that the pot is only for coarse center adjustments. This means that Kentec's guide about adjusting the the pot for best center focus is the definate guide? So let me reiterate.

What you want me to do is. " Make sure they(the 2170D-4 settings) are back to the factor settings before you readjust the pot." Then readjust the pot for best possible center focus? I guess I'm still a little foggy.

I have a service manual for my KV36HS500


Next, I really need your confirmation on this. You mentioned convergence settings in your reply. Convergence can have an affect on focus? I was thinking that focus pot + Focus Service Menu settings were my problem. Is convergence my problem as well? Which do you do first? Convergence or Focus? If you could just tell me, I can research convergence. I am in desperate need of help. Just send me in the right direction once again.
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post #693 of 2962 Old 01-10-2006, 09:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ncasebee View Post

So my problem is convergence as well? I need this answered. People are using "convergence" and "focus" in the same sentences, and I don't understand. Is my fuzzy text in certain areas of the screen a focus problem or a convergence problem?

First I need to now if you can display a cross hatch or a dot pattern. Do you have the Avia disk?

Focus and convergence are really two different things but most people use it to mean the same thing. Partly becasue of the nomenclature of the Service Menu options I think. What you are really doing is converging three focused electron beams to land on the red, green and blue phosphors to make a white pixel.

First, reset all of the Service Menu items you changed back to their original settings. Display the Avia pattern with the plusses (+), I think you can select one that is 50 IRE. Now look at the + in the very center, is it a straight up and down or do you see a small blue edge or green edge? You really have a red plus, a green plus and a blue plus in the center and you want them all to line up or "converge. Now adjust the pot on the back of the set so the lines are as thin or sharp as they can get and the RGB +'s look lined up. Remeber this is for coarse adjustment, you will improve on it in the service menu.

Quote:


What you want me to do is. " Make sure they(the 2170D-4 settings) are back to the factor settings before you readjust the pot." Then readjust the pot for best possible center focus? I guess I'm still a little foggy.

Yes, just try to undo what you did the best you can. After that we'll take the next step

Good luck
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post #694 of 2962 Old 01-10-2006, 09:50 PM
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mdtiberi, I greatly appreciate your help. You must know how maddening it can be.I appreciate everyone's help.

Ok, I just did this tonight.I tried following your suggestions as close as possible. I went into service menu and returned all 2170D-4(Focus) settings to their original values. I then brought up Kentec's 4:3 Focus Matrix, and turned on only the green gun. I tweaked the center focus pattern for absolute best focus. My face was very close to the screen, and the center focus is at it's very best.

I then turned back on all the guns, and looked at a white 4:3 Crosshatch pattern. I'm using Video Essentials by the way, but used a crosshatch pattern on stick. I looked closely at the right side of the screen. At about 1.5-1.0 ft from the screen, I noticed large amounts of convergence issue on the right side of the screen. When looking at the right vertical lines, I could detect a red line, a green line, and a blue line quite distinctly. I then looked at the center. The convergence was much better compared to the right side of the screen. Only a slight trace of red and blue could be seen. The left had a little problem as well, however not like the right.

Could this be what's causing my blurry text at the extremeties of the screen? The areas of the screen that suffer from blurry text are also suffering from convergence issues. Are they tied together? What's the next step. (I don't think Kentec wrote a convergence guide.)
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post #695 of 2962 Old 01-11-2006, 09:40 AM
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Yes, I think the misconvergence is causing you to see blurry text. I do not know the SM items for your set but do you have D-CONV? First play with the CADJ or center adjust and get that where you like it then move out to the edges. The settings LUMB, LLMB, are for left lower and left upper found in D-CONV. Try fiddling with these settings so you can see how they work. You might also have to go back to QPAM and some of the geometry settings for pin cushion etc. All of these settings interact with one another so it can get a little tricky. Just take your time and make notes. Eventually it will all come together.
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post #696 of 2962 Old 01-11-2006, 04:01 PM
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Thx mdtiberi

I am working on convergence settings in D-Conv, as well as geometry settings in 2170D-1. What is the order that you should do adjustments? Geomerty>Convergence>Focus. The convergence is helping quite a bit. I guess convergence can make white text look fuzzy/blurry. I know a cross hatch vertical line that isn't converged looks fuzzy.

I've just been looking at a white crosshatch to do focus on.

I have a question however. In the top middle of my screen the middle section of a "Horizontal Line" is not converged. I have heard that convergence on horizontal lines, or "vertical convergence" can't be done. Are there any settings that could possibly fix that area?
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post #697 of 2962 Old 01-11-2006, 09:44 PM
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Wow, QPAM made a huge difference! I'd tried D-CONV and 2170D-1 with few results. The crosshatch lines were still fuzzy until I changed QPAM, and then they got very sharp. The geometry is still a bit off, but the convergence is better than ever!
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post #698 of 2962 Old 01-12-2006, 12:17 PM
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Hello,

Could someone tell me how to get the files in this thread to download.
Error message says it can't find the files

Thanks
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post #699 of 2962 Old 01-12-2006, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by hbecktv View Post

Hello,

Could someone tell me how to get the files in this thread to download.
Error message says it can't find the files

Thanks

Right click, open in new window.
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post #700 of 2962 Old 01-12-2006, 07:03 PM
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To anyone who has had discoloration in corners of their set and fixed it by changing the Landing settings:

I just tried to do this with no luck. I thought I had the same problem as you all do, but now I wonder. My new xbr960 has discoloration in three of the corners, the top left the worst by far, but it doesn't stay there. It comes and goes, maybe once or twice a minute a color distortion will bleed out of the corner a ways, maybe pulse a little, and then move back in. Did you all have something like that or just steady discoloration?

It makes it tough to watch the tv right now. My eyes keep moving to the color distortions when they occur. Thanks for any help.
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post #701 of 2962 Old 01-12-2006, 07:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deckels View Post

To anyone who has had discoloration in corners of their set and fixed it by changing the Landing settings:

I just tried to do this with no luck. I thought I had the same problem as you all do, but now I wonder. My new xbr960 has discoloration in three of the corners, the top left the worst by far, but it doesn't stay there. It comes and goes, maybe once or twice a minute a color distortion will bleed out of the corner a ways, maybe pulse a little, and then move back in. Did you all have something like that or just steady discoloration?

It makes it tough to watch the tv right now. My eyes keep moving to the color distortions when they occur. Thanks for any help.

Move your speakers away from the TV
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post #702 of 2962 Old 01-12-2006, 10:20 PM
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Well, not only are they shielded and pretty far away at is it, except the center speaker on top, but I of course did that the second I saw something like this, didn't affect it. Thanks though. I've done it in the past and learned my lesson.
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post #703 of 2962 Old 01-13-2006, 06:06 AM
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Deckels
No my colour purity problems were constant , never pulsating.

I'm a bit concerned about your's though

Where's Dakotatech when u need him?

Is it still under warranty?
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post #704 of 2962 Old 01-13-2006, 08:29 AM
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In a 9-30-05 post, Kentech wrote:

"Further, no matter what I have said before, there are two places where sharpness is very significantly controlled *in addition* to 2170P-3 and the MID5 table. I'll write that up soon. I have some substantially improved image settings to recommend for different sources, based on these (for me) recent discoveries. Surprising improvements for SD broadcast and SD over S-video, and for DVD on component inputs, less so for HD broadcast."

Since that time, he has been silent. Does anyone have a clue what he was talking about?
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post #705 of 2962 Old 01-13-2006, 05:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renglade
Since that time, he has been silent. Does anyone have a clue what he was talking about?
Sorry to have been absent from ths forum for so long. There is that need to shoot the engineer and publish the results, no?

What I have been doing is watching tons of movies from my newish Panasonic S97 DVD player, which is nearly perfect over its component outputs at 480i, letting the TV perform 3:2 pulldown when I care about it (not always). As a result I have been revising my settings for image processing and shaping that is, the equalization and/or enhancement of real-world video so it looks like a million dollars. Then Ive been adapting what I have learned there to the other video inputs and sources.

In particular, I have been trying to track down *every* source of edge enhancement and ringing in the entire signal chain, starting with the DVD disk. Fortunately there are some DVDs that simply have no significant edge enhancement or artifacts of their own. How does one know? By playing them on a computer screen digitally and displaying the picture pixel-for-pixel. A good example is The Incredibles, an example of great computer-to-DVD perfection, followed closely by Monsters, Inc. This test can be done with the open-source software VLC from videolan.com, with the display-ratio settings at 720:480 (Mac or PC).

Without getting into many gory details quite yet, I will say the following:

(1) I mentioned sharpness/EQ settings hiding in a couple of places. Right. Here they are:

(a) First, in plain sight: 2170P-3. I have decided that #9-F1LV introduces too much after-edge outlining for me, and I have generally set it to zero. Further, after having lived with SYSM=3 for some time, I now realize that the least harmful equalization can be found in SYSM=2. Set properly, it acts like true unsharp-masking (a term digital-camera fans will understand).

(b) Also, I use the MID5 enhancements *very* conservatively. POP=63 is always set to all-zeroes for nos. 1-18, which pretty much makes MID5 pass-through if I set MIDE=63 in 2170P-3. Then small amounts of very-fine-detail enhancement can be added in other columns by setting MHYL=3 and varying MHYE from 0 (no effect) to 7 (max effect). Were talking skin and cloth texture, here, not big edge-sharpness. Settings of MHYE=2 or 3 are helpful for all fine sources, such as DVDs and HDTV. A heavier setting for SD sources can be had by setting MHYO to 1 (makes it coarser), MHYL=3, and then MHYE to 1 to 3.

(c) The hidden enhancements are real troublemakers! The worst is in 2103-1, nos. 6-8, SHAP-SHF0-PREO. SHAP is yet another sharpness enhancer, but this one is in mid-detail, and it rings, adding coarseness and a video look to fine sources. 2103-1 does NOT affect certain digital inputs (e.g. HDMI, HDTV from tuner) and always affects V5/V6 component 480i, S-video 480i, and RF-tuner and digital-tuner 480i. Recommended: set SHAP to zero, SHF0 to 3, and PREO (less critical) to 0 or 3 (havent decided yet).

(d) For all S-video, composite-video, and RF-tuner 480i sources, the 3D comb filter separate color from luminance, and the 3D-COMB section has significant sharpness tweaks, nos. 14 and 15: VAPG and VAPI for vertical anhancement (generally not used, which means zeros); and nos. 17 and 18: YPFT and YPFG. In this case, YPFG can act as either a detail-reducer or enhancer, with no effect at YPFG=8. (Possibly 7; still experimenting.) Note that the 3D-COMB settings have no effect on all high-quality sources, such as HDTV, HDMI, and component inputs. Recommended: Set VAPG and VAPI to zero, YPFT to 3 and YPFG to 8.

***************

SO . . . Imagine a chart so we can track this stuff. (Attached is a PDF of a useful chart for keeping track of these settings. Print on legal-size paper.)

The settings can be grouped in a table. Reading down the far-left column . . .

3D-COMB: 14-15-17-18 (4 rows) X 4 columns, 1 for each picture mode (Pro, Standard, Movie, Vivid).

2103-1: 6-7-8 (3 rows), only one column for all picture modes.

2170P-3: 0 thru 16, SYSM-VMLV-VMCR- ... - MIDE (17 rows grouped 1-1-4-4-3-3-1, according to function) X 4 columns, 1 for each picture mode.

MID5: 0 thru 18, POP-MHLY-MHLC- ... -MVCE (19 rows grouped 1-4-4-4-3-3, according to finction) and sample columns showing the POP values for possible MIDE values in 2170P-3, above.

The row-orders are the same as in the parameter charts from the Sony service manuals that have been published.

Example: My latest thinking for DVD-480i thru component inputs in Pro mode is:

3D-COMB: 14-15-17-18 = not applicable.
2103-1: 6-7-8 = 0-3-3
2170P-3: 0 thru 16 = 2 n 0-3-2-8 0-1-3-0 0-1-0 5-0-0 60, where n depends on the velocity-modulation setting. UBOF = 5 balances the black level against my other inputs. There, YMMV.

MIDE: 0 thru 18 = 60 0-0-0-0 0-3-3-0 0-0-0-0 0-0-0 0-0-0

This requires the user Sharpness slider to be set at 25-35, depending on taste. Mine is usually near 30.

************

Cryptic and confusing? I guess those were some of the gory details, indeed! I have been through these numbers so many times that I think of them as a series. When I am writing down what I am doing, for example, in the 2170P-3 settings, I just scribble the 17 numbers in a column with lines between the groups. That way I can see patterns developing or changing as I experiment. If the chart is used as a template, then one can publish settings as a number-series, as I have done above. Note that a chart as described above may cover all picture modes, but there has to be a separate chart for each video-input class and scan type.

Final thoughts for now:

(1) I believe that very conservative velocity modulation settings (ClearEdge) are a benefit for non-HD sources, maybe even for HD. I have set it according to what I have previously written: For all picture modes, 2170P-3-VM, VMH, VMM, VML are set to 0-9-6-3, respectively. I typicaly have the user VM control set to Medium, maybe Low or Off for HDTV. Set conservatively, it does NOT suppress fine detail as rumors would have it. (But some of the ringy enhancement filters can do that, as implied earlier.)

I have been experimenting extensively with the settings in 2170P-3, nos. 2-5, the codes that entirely determine the "look" of VM. The current settings of 0-3-2-8 replace earlier settings of 0-3-1-0 and seem to cause less distortion of high-contrast vertical edges while reducing the mush from the scanning spot. The differences are subtle and matter only if there is any VM turned on at all.

(2) I cant fathom Sonys claim of minimum enhancements for the Pro mode, as it clearly invokes certain digital filters that significantly modiofy the image, in some cases to its detriment. Ive tried to ferret out these effects and control them. I am making judgements based on a near-photographic reproduction of DVD material from source to screen, and some enhancement and sharpening *is* necessary but it doesnt have to be ugly! The same settings applied to HDTV prove the result almost shocking photo-like detail, when the broadcast is good.

(3) Summary: The most valuable lesson I have learned here is setting 2170P-3/SYSM to 2, reserving all fine-detail adjustments for the MID5 group of codes, and turning OFF all other sharpening filters for fine sources. The the Sharpness slider is used to adjust overall sharpness to taste. (Exception: for SD cable-broadcast, I turn 2170P-3: F1LV up to 3. Ordinary broadcast can be pretty awful, but even that benefitted from getting the nasty sharpness eliminated from 2103-1. It also made my VHS tapes look gawd-awful and grainy; much better now.)

UPDATE: Attached chart is now revised to include SSMD and PPHA parameters. See post #1040 here.

 

IPChart05tall.pdf 80.22265625k . file

KenTech
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post #706 of 2962 Old 01-13-2006, 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted by KenTech View Post

Sorry to have been absent from ths forum for so long. There is that need to shoot the engineer and publish the results, no?

Good to see you back...!
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post #707 of 2962 Old 01-13-2006, 06:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ncasebee View Post

The bottom right and right is constantly blurry, and I have attempted a refocus twice now. I follow the article exactly. The blurry on the right and not the left is even worse than just blurry. The uneveness is even more noticable.

The focus pot is an *overall-focus* adjustment, as is 2170P-4 #3 QPDC. They sort of duplicate each other -- but not quite. You can isolate them only by adding an electrical jumper onto one of the circuit boards, and that's not possible without taking the back off the set. That's why I suggested setting QPDC to either the default or (maybe for you) the middle of its range.

Yes, the whole screen is affected by the adjustment pot, but you should pay attention only to the center and get that to be the best compromise between the pot setting and QPDC. In addition, you are trying to balance any asymmetry in the deflection yoke or its mounting on the tube by doing this step: "Adjust 2170D-4 #8, DQP until vertical line widths at equal distances from center are balanced." I.e. you want the left and right sides to be *equally* out-of-focus during this step. This is how Sony suggests to do it, and it worked fine for me on my 36XS955.

Having now set up the center focus, all you can do is the best you can with the dynamic-focus controls described in steps 5-7. The corners will *always* be crappier than the center -- fact of life for CRTs. Just do the best you can; it's going to be a compromise no matter what. The detailed dynamic-focus settings are designed to minimize the *differences* between the screen's outer reaches and the center.

Focus and convergence are completely different matters. Focus is the attempt to make the scanning dot (of whatever color) as small as possible over as much of the screen as possible. Convergence is the attempt to make the three color dots (red, green, blue) line up perfectly over as much of the screen as possible, no matter the focus.

If the green pattern is well-focused, the other colors are as well, as the three electron guns are designed to track that way. But if you see color fringing on horizital or vertical edges or lines, that means the three (well-focused) colors aren't lining up properly, and that is what convergence is all about. It's usually set up with a fine-dot pattern over all the screen. You can adjust for nearly perfect horizontal convergence (no fringing on vertical lines), but fringing on horizontal lines is tough to cure, as it means fooling with permanent magnets inside the set -- not a pleasant job, and sometimes the best you can achieve, again, is a compromise.

If you have the center 3/4 of the area of your picture well-focused and converged, you likely will not pay much attention to outer aberrations when watching actual video material, especially in the corners -- well, excepting maybe for games and other computer graphics. . . . And I hope this method works well for your HS500, a set with which I have no personal experience.

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post #708 of 2962 Old 01-13-2006, 06:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deckels View Post

It comes and goes, maybe once or twice a minute a color distortion will bleed out of the corner a ways, maybe pulse a little, and then move back in. Did you all have something like that or just steady discoloration?

I'm really suspicious of this "pulsing." If it were an adjustment-fixable problem, it wouldn't be pulsing. The way you describe it, the pulsing sounds like the difference between the scan rate of NTSC-standard TV (59.94Hz or something like that) and the exact 60Hz of the power mains. This means that it could be caused by a low-level interference from a 60Hz outside magnetic field caused by a big motor, transformer, overhead power lines, roof air conditioner, apartment-building wiring, whatever. If you change the orientation of the set in the room, by turning it or relocating it, and the pulsing changes in pattern or degree, I really would suspect this.

(This problem plagues computer-monitor users, too. How about major power lines just outside a third-floor office of a client? Caused an maddening 15Hz wobble of the 75Hz-scan display.)

Oh, Hell, I just thought of something else less pleasant. It could be that there is some kind of leakage in the device that is supposed to turn of *completely* the degaussing current that causes the big "bzzt" when you first turn on your set. If it's a relay, small chance of that; but if the device is what is called a PTC resistor, then it may be defective. Can you have it checked out under warranty? A definitive test would be to open the back of the set and temporarily disconnect (unplug) the degaussing coil from the curcuit board where it normally connects. If the pulsing stops, that's the problem.

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post #709 of 2962 Old 01-13-2006, 06:38 PM
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Thankyou KenTech. I greatly appreciate the help and response. I'm still trying to get my geomerty/convergence/focus down. All of which are not so hot. I have never really noticed the convergence/focus problems until I started using HDTV content heavily. 480i and 480p do not allow one to notice the focus/convergence problems, so it is just recently that I have noticed these problems. I'm going to try again tonight with a geometry>convergence>focus extravaganza. Sometimes I wish I would have waited until now to buy my HDTV. I would have bought a widescreen DLP. Candy and Nuts though. Thanks again.

TV: KV36HS500
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post #710 of 2962 Old 01-13-2006, 07:08 PM
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Do any of you know why on my KV-30HS420 the HDMI input port won't work after doin a mid reset data? ALl of my ID are set properly and everything... I just can't see why....
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post #711 of 2962 Old 01-14-2006, 06:45 AM
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I know that the service codes list and data sheets are posted here as adobe pdf files, but I cannot find them posted as excel spreadsheets, which makes them easire to use. If anyone knows which post the spreadsheets are found in, or if you have the spreadsheets for the XS955 line, could you please let me know. I'd like to be able to keep an electronic table, rather than paper only. Thanks.
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post #712 of 2962 Old 01-14-2006, 07:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jediphish View Post

I know that the service codes list and data sheets are posted here as adobe pdf files, but I cannot find them posted as excel spreadsheets, which makes them easire to use. If anyone knows which post the spreadsheets are found in, or if you have the spreadsheets for the XS955 line, could you please let me know. I'd like to be able to keep an electronic table, rather than paper only. Thanks.

I personally find the adobe pdf files that contain the actual service manual listings to be more useful than the spreadsheets. The service manual listings very clearly indicate how the parameters are distributed across inputs, picture modes, DRC modes, etc. The spreadsheets don't make these issues clear. Without this information, navigating and modifying parameters can be confusing and risky. I simply print the pdf listing and pencil in my differences/modifications. The spreadsheets do provide useful information in that the authors have provided explanations of many of the parameters. YMMV.

Raoul

Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin
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post #713 of 2962 Old 01-14-2006, 07:32 AM
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I assumed the pdf files were just "snapshots" of the excel sheets. I just want to be able to manipulate the data in the sheet, as well as be able to manipulate the print area. I know this is petty, but if the files exist . . .
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post #714 of 2962 Old 01-14-2006, 12:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jediphish
I know that the service codes list and data sheets are posted here as adobe pdf files, but I cannot find them posted as excel spreadsheets, which makes them easire to use.
Here is the only one I'm aware of, for the 34XBR910, which has only a few differences with the later sets. There are a couple of vatiations of this, but this seems the most informed. Note that some of the "descriptions" are, at best, wild guesses.

But note that this is not as useful as you would believe. The spreadsheets give you *no* clue as to how the code-settings are memorized for different combinations of picture mode, video mode, and input type. Except for an occasional quick look, I have found the spreadsheets essentially useless! They helped at the beginning of my experimentation, but only the charts can make plain what is stored when you WRITE the settings.

Example: The MID5 code-group alone starts with a table of 64 columns X 19 rows, all visible in the charts. The spreadsheets give no clue! Same with the complex 2170P groups. The simple vertical listing in the spreadsheet is useless!

Both are attached>

 

34XBR910 Service Menu vADR.zip 57.740234375k . file

 

XS955:XBR960 Service Data.pdf 405.4189453125k . file

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post #715 of 2962 Old 01-14-2006, 01:06 PM - Thread Starter
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FAIR WARNING: CHANGES DURING WARMUP

It will not come as any surprise to anyone reading my posts that, for me, no tweaking of these XS955/XBR960 sets brings as much benefit as optimizing the image-processing path. My post #707 is an example. (Of course, that presumes you have satisfactory focus and geometry but geometry is a separate issue.)

But I have some shocking news in case some of you have found yourselves chasing your tail at times: Something substantial changes within the set during warmup. Well, it's more complicated than that. Let me explain.

It is known that solid-state devices (all of the chips, transistors, and processors) change electrical characteristics with warmup. Amplifiers improve in gain and ability to handle high frequencies. Memory and switching chips actually slow down slightly. The whole chain of processing in these sets is really crappy when cold, improving substantially in the first ten minutes of operation after a really cold start, say in the morning in a cool house. The tube doesn't look its best, either.

All you have to do to prove the point is to put up one of AVIA's Resolution test patterns. The second pattern in the Resolution group, 200 TVL, is good. Turn on a cold TV, and put up this pattern in Pro mode as soon as you can from your DVD player. Then watch the vertical wedges and the lower-right circle change over half an hour! But that's only the half of it.

Example of what got me wondering: I once put up a test pattern 5 minutes after startup, reviewed my charts and planned what I was going to do, then looked at the TV and realized I had forgotten to put it into Service mode. 15 minutes had gone by or more. Fine. So I restarted the TV and went through the button sequence on the remote to put it into Service mode. But wait! Now the pattern looked much improved! What was going on here? Only 20 seconds had elapsed.

After getting somewhat confused by this and undergoing some hair-replacement, I have come to this solid conclusion: This TV performs some sort of self-optimizing calibration at startup, likely to compensate for temperature and set-to-set variations in components. It happens during that first 10 seconds or so while the screen is dark. It has nothing to do with Service mode. Important: It performs this calibration at EVERY RESTART.

I'll state it a different way: If you turn on your set from cold, it performs this calibration as best it can, and presents a picture. But it is not at its best yet that takes 15 minutes or more of warmup. If you display high-quality video, say through the component inputs (a 480i test pattern proves the point), then restart the set after 15 minutes or more, the image/pattern improves, and very substantially for the best video (a great DVD, say). And by restart I mean power-off/on for 0.5 - 1 second, that's all. Fine detail seems most affected.

I don't think at present it affects straight-digital inputs, such as HDMI or HD broadcast from the tuner; but it definitely affects any 480i analog video from any input. Which leads me to believe the culprit is the 2130 chip, but I can't prove it, and it doesn't really matter. I can't say whether mine is the only set that does this, either, but I doubt it.

Bottom line: If you are going to experiment with image-processing tweaks, restart the set after 15-30 minutes before working on it. And if you are going to watch any 480i material, warm up the TV first, then restart after 15-30 minutes. It will then be at its best. I now routinely restart the set after warmup, no matter what I am watching, to force recalibration. It may not matter for the evening news or CNN, but it does if the analog broadcast is high-quality and you're awake enough to care.

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post #716 of 2962 Old 01-14-2006, 02:17 PM
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Has anyone besides Bolo the Romeo and I noticed that their MID3 menu looks nothing like the service manual layout? He has a 420 and I have a 955. Both of our ID7 settings are 17. If you care to catch up, our quandary starts at post # 661.
Please help some brothers out!

Bryan
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post #717 of 2962 Old 01-15-2006, 08:19 AM
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Okay - I finally printed out the 22 page PDF chart for the XS series (I have the 30XS955) and recorded all of my initial settings for V5/V6 (using my HDTivo connected to V6, which allowed me to toggle output between 480i and 1080i - I don't use 480p or 720p).

I noticed that on several settings, what the chart had for 480i and 1080i was reversed. For example: 3DNR #43 - YEL (Vivid) is listed as 6 (480i) and 4 (1080i) on the chart, but my actuals were the opposite - 4 (480i) and 6 (1080i).

Another example is 3DNR #41 - YMG (Vivid) - The chart has 3 (480i) and 1 (1080i), but my actuals were the opposite - 1 (480i) and 3 (1080i).

Any ideas about this?

Finally, I'm one of those people who made a few changes before printing the charts. The only changes I made prior to printing the charts were to the geometry settings and I wrote down my changes at the time I made them, but I was not perfect in doing so. I think I may have changed a couple of settings without recording the original value. If anyone has their originals for these two groups (only 2170-D1 and D2), I'd very much appreciate a PM. I think I have most of the original values recorded, but I'm not 100% positive. My geometry is fine but I'd like to be certain about the original settings if I can be. Thanks.
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post #718 of 2962 Old 01-15-2006, 10:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KenTech View Post

I'm really suspicious of this "pulsing." If it were an adjustment-fixable problem, it wouldn't be pulsing. The way you describe it, the pulsing sounds like the difference between the scan rate of NTSC-standard TV (59.94Hz or something like that) and the exact 60Hz of the power mains. This means that it could be caused by a low-level interference from a 60Hz outside magnetic field caused by a big motor, transformer, overhead power lines, roof air conditioner, apartment-building wiring, whatever. If you change the orientation of the set in the room, by turning it or relocating it, and the pulsing changes in pattern or degree, I really would suspect this.

(This problem plagues computer-monitor users, too. How about major power lines just outside a third-floor office of a client? Caused an maddening 15Hz wobble of the 75Hz-scan display.)

Oh, Hell, I just thought of something else less pleasant. It could be that there is some kind of leakage in the device that is supposed to turn of *completely* the degaussing current that causes the big "bzzt" when you first turn on your set. If it's a relay, small chance of that; but if the device is what is called a PTC resistor, then it may be defective. Can you have it checked out under warranty? A definitive test would be to open the back of the set and temporarily disconnect (unplug) the degaussing coil from the curcuit board where it normally connects. If the pulsing stops, that's the problem.

Thanks for the help. I hate the idea of someone form sony coming out and opening it up, but it sounds like that might be the final solution. I think I'll see if it goes away in a couple days first. I'll call Sony today and let them know about it, so it's clear this was happening from the get go.

I'll try moving the tv around a bit, but I don't have real options as to where it can go. I don't know where a large magnetic force could be coming from. I'm on the top floor and it's just a pizza restaurant below me.
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post #719 of 2962 Old 01-15-2006, 10:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jediphish View Post

Finally, I'm one of those people who made a few changes before printing the charts. The only changes I made prior to printing the charts were to the geometry settings and I wrote down my changes at the time I made them, but I was not perfect in doing so. I think I may have changed a couple of settings without recording the original value. If anyone has their originals for these two groups (only 2170-D1 and D2), I'd very much appreciate a PM. I think I have most of the original values recorded, but I'm not 100% positive. My geometry is fine but I'd like to be certain about the original settings if I can be. Thanks.

Two things you need to know:

1) Service Manuals are not updated as often as the TV's, so you might find missing or added entries, and as you saw entries in a different order.

2) I'm sure you already know, but... The values in the Service Manual are the default settings for your TV. The actual values on your TV are often changed in the final factory check. On my XBR960 over 20% of the values were different than the default, from the Service Manual.
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post #720 of 2962 Old 01-15-2006, 10:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ptchristensen View Post

Two things you need to know:

1) Service Manuals are not updated as often as the TV's, so you might find missing or added entries, and as you saw entries in a different order.

2) I'm sure you already know, but... The values in the Service Manual are the default settings for your TV. The actual values on your TV are often changed in the final factory check. On my XBR960 over 20% of the values were different than the default, from the Service Manual.


Thanks for the reply. I figured the service manual entries are the defaults, and that my set would have been adjusted prior to shipment. Nevertheless, if a couple of people with this set sent me thiey original values for 2170D1 & 2 and they turn out to be essentially identical to each other (and virtually the same as the original values I'm certain of, then I could feel comfortable with the few values I'm not sure of. Hopefully I'm making sense.

Again - thatnks!
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