THE SONY SERVICE CODES - Articles, Comments, Discoveries - Page 25 - AVS Forum
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post #721 of 2962 Old 01-15-2006, 10:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Jediphish View Post

I noticed that on several settings, what the chart had for 480i and 1080i was reversed. For example: 3DNR #43 - YEL (Vivid) is listed as 6 (480i) and 4 (1080i) on the chart, but my actuals were the opposite - 4 (480i) and 6 (1080i).

Another example is 3DNR #41 - YMG (Vivid) - The chart has 3 (480i) and 1 (1080i), but my actuals were the opposite - 1 (480i) and 3 (1080i).

Any ideas about this?

Here is my experience with these. I have tried hard to understand what the 3DNR (3-D Noise Reduction, also in many DVD players) parameters do and what happens if they're changed. I have put up a 480i picture with critical detail, hard edges and some grainy noise. Then I have gone thru many of the 3DNR settings (if not all!), changing the values up and down to see if anything changed on-screen. In every case where the picture didn't simply disappear, turn to gibberish, or radically reverse color, I couldn't notice anything useful. E.g. I could never find one parameter that might mean "degree of noise reduction" or "detail preservation" with 0 = off, and 1-3 having increasing effect. Nothing.

Maybe I was not using the right test conditions or a suitable picture. Maybe this stuff kicks in only with horrible fringe-reception conditions or bad VHS tapes, I don't know. But I felt it was a waste of time, and I was pleased with the video reproduction as it was. There were so many *other* settings that were critical, I let 3DNR settings alone. I have recently on a rainy Sayurday tried again to identify useful tweaks in 3DNR. No-go; nothing new.

Having said that, and having little use for the horribly unsophisticated "enhancements" of the Vivid mode, I have taken over Vivid for my own purposes and made sure *all* of the mode-dependent settings were initially identical to Pro, a conservative picture mode. Parameters nos. 43 and 41 didn't respond to tweaking, and now I don't care, my initial reasoning being "if the only change in the chart is for Vivid, I don't need it!"

Bottom line: So many other parameters are more important, I wouldn't sweat a single drop over this. My chart shows exceptions in the Vivid-Others column for #62, too, but I have long ago made these parameters all the same for all modes (same as Pro). And that's where they have stayed, including the more radically changing #45-CLV.

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post #722 of 2962 Old 01-15-2006, 12:12 PM - Thread Starter
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The Image-Processing Chart posted above in message #707 has been significantly updated. I recommend anyone who has downloaded it discard that and download the new one.

I believe the comments and descriptions are now much more reflective of what these parameters really do, and a few minor errors have been fixed. To a great extent we are reading tea leaves here, as Sony is no help, and the descriptions may be further revised as I learn more. But many of the descriptions seem really solid in hindsight after several months of experience.

Reminder of its purpose: We can now easily share these important image-processing settings by simply listing them as a number-series in a message. Filling those numbers into an appropriate column of the chart, top-down, then ties them to the actual parameters and the descriptions, saving much time and trouble.

Example: Excellent settings for 1080i HDTV reception from built-in cable or antenna ATSC (digital) tuner, now my "standard" for everyday viewing. I set Sharpness at 25-35, to taste. ClearEdge is usually set to Low or OFF, but sometimes to Medium. These settings assume Pro-like settings for everything else.

3D-COMB and 2103-1 = not applicable

2170P-3 = 2 - - 0.3.2.8 - 0.1.3.0 - 0.1.0 - 5.0.0 - 61
(For the 5.0.0 group, VMMV depending on how you balance your inputs.)

MID5 = 61 - 0.0.0.0 - 0.3.2.0 - 0.3.2.0 - 0.0.0 - 0.0.0

For 720p, change MIDE to 60 and:

MID5 = 60 - 0.0.0.0 - 0.3.3.0 - 0.3.3.0 - 0.0.0 - 0.0.0

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post #723 of 2962 Old 01-15-2006, 03:18 PM
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Howdy Ken,

Glad to see you're still keeping tabs on things.

Re greyscales... based on some more recent experiments using various 6500K references, it looks like my earlier best-guess/color-differentation eyeballing method may not have worked quite as well as hoped, and that I was probably leaning a bit too much toward orange on my yellows, overdriving red and underdriving green on the display.

Re sharpness... if you're still using the memory stick I'd be curious to hear your or Glen's take (or anyone else's for that matter) on the patterns in Post #10 here, and why, for example, they seem to work with 2170P-3/SYSM set to 2 or 3, but not 0 or 1.

It's a High Hide. A High Hide... See you go up and you hide, high. It goes up to where the trees are, and keeps the researchers out of harms way.

Actually, it'll put them at a very convenient biting height.
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post #724 of 2962 Old 01-15-2006, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by KenTech View Post

The Image-Processing Chart posted above in message #707 has been significantly updated. I recommend anyone who has downloaded it discard that and download the new one.

A little ambiguity in your statement has me a little confused. I assume the chart in post #707 is the newest one since there is no other subsequent to it. Please advise
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post #725 of 2962 Old 01-15-2006, 07:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jjmilo View Post

A little ambiguity in your statement has me a little confused. I assume the chart in post #707 is the newest one since there is no other subsequent to it. Please advise

Yes, it's the one in post #707 that has been updated. I didn't want to leave the old one hanging around.

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post #726 of 2962 Old 01-16-2006, 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by KenTech View Post

Here is the only one I'm aware of, for the 34XBR910, which has only a few differences with the later sets. There are a couple of vatiations of this, but this seems the most informed. Note that some of the "descriptions" are, at best, wild guesses.

But note that this is not as useful as you would believe. The spreadsheets give you *no* clue as to how the code-settings are memorized for different combinations of picture mode, video mode, and input type. Except for an occasional quick look, I have found the spreadsheets essentially useless! They helped at the beginning of my experimentation, but only the charts can make plain what is stored when you WRITE the settings.

Example: The MID5 code-group alone starts with a table of 64 columns X 19 rows, all visible in the charts. The spreadsheets give no clue! Same with the complex 2170P groups. The simple vertical listing in the spreadsheet is useless!

Both are attached>


I completely understand that that chart is the more important document. The chart which is in Adobe PDF "looks" like it was originally an excel file. Is the CHART available in excel? I ask because I'd like to be able to Hide rows that aren't applicable to me ("Twin View, "Freeze," etc.), as well as be able to record original settings and new settings side by side with the defaults.

If there's not one, then I might set out to create one based on the pdf file, which will obviously take some time. If I do, I'll post it when its done.
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post #727 of 2962 Old 01-16-2006, 09:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jediphish View Post

The chart which is in Adobe PDF "looks" like it was originally an excel file. Is the CHART available in excel?

Ah! Your dream is our dream! I'm sure it started as an Excel file somewhere deep in the bowels of Sony Engineering, but what comes out is either a printed service manual or a PDF document of the same, both available from Sony. The definitive Sony chart (and I use "definitive" loosely) is certainly edited down from an original PDF of the manual, as it is identical. But I have never seen an Excel file of it. One look at the MID5 charts should dissuade you from converting it! Maybe a couple of important pages . . .

For my part, I have simply printed Sony's charts in color and stapled them all together, and I annotate it in fine pencil. Most of the charts I need have room to scribble small. I now pretty much ignore the MID5 monster and the 2170P-3 charts, as I have distilled their essence into a new chart I can manage. (See post #707.)

Sony won't even give up concise descriptions of the codes. Getting the original chart (and there must be dozens of variations) would be impossible without a "friend" deep inside Sony.

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post #728 of 2962 Old 01-16-2006, 09:43 AM
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Originally Posted by KenTech View Post

Ah! Your dream is our dream! I'm sure it started as an Excel file somewhere deep in the bowels of Sony Engineering, but what comes out is either a printed service manual or a PDF document of the same, both available from Sony. The definitive Sony chart (and I use "definitive" loosely) is certainly edited down from an original PDF of the manual, as it is identical. But I have never seen an Excel file of it. One look at the MID5 charts should dissuade you from converting it! Maybe a couple of important pages . . .

For my part, I have simply printed Sony's charts in color and stapled them all together, and I annotate it in fine pencil. Most of the charts I need have room to scribble small. I now pretty much ignore the MID5 monster and the 2170P-3 charts, as I have distilled their essence into a new chart I can manage. (See post #707.)

Sony won't even give up concise descriptions of the codes. Getting the original chart (and there must be dozens of variations) would be impossible without a "friend" deep inside Sony.


Creating the spreadsheet itself wouldn't be that much work - entering the data, on the other hand would be very cumbersome, but eventually doable, with liberal cutting and pasting where values are the same. I certainly recognize that there are better ways to spend my time.

Because I only use a few of the inputs and don't have the Twin View function, I'd just like to be able to hide them if I don't need them.

Do we know the date of the Service Manual from which the "current" chart is taken?
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post #729 of 2962 Old 01-16-2006, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by ADU View Post

Re greyscales... based on some more recent experiments using various 6500K references, it looks like my earlier best-guess/color-differentation eyeballing method may not have worked quite as well as hoped, and that I was probably leaning a bit too much toward orange on my yellows, overdriving red and underdriving green on the display.

Before I was ISF calibrated, I was WAY too blue. I am an experienced tweaker and I do know the theory. I don't know about staring at the clouds in the sky, but I used a 6500K light shining on a Kodak Grey Card, in a dark room. It was really difficult to dial in by eye but I thought I had achieved a greyscale that looked pretty good (better than stock). I found out months later it was actually way cool, something like 8000 - 10000 K. My ISF stepped in and measured it properly with the proper test equipment, and my blue was 50-60% too high across the board, and my red was about 10-15% too low in some areas. He said this was a common error using a light on a card. I don't know what method you used.

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post #730 of 2962 Old 01-16-2006, 01:54 PM
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Interesting. Erring toward the blue, or the red the way I did on my yellows does seem to be a common mistake when eyeballing greyscale. And as one of the guys (Ken or Glen, can't remember which) mentioned a number of pages ago, there does seem to be some noticeable variation in color among different brands of 6500K fluorescent bulbs. So I've been reluctant to use those as my sole reference so far w/o knowing their chromaticity and CRI. Someone posted chromaticity for the Philips Daylight Deluxe here but the B&Ms only have those in 4-foot size which is too big for my purposes. And I haven't had much luck locating similar info on smaller bulbs. All I've been able to find out about the Walmart LOA 6500K bulbs is they have an 84 CRI and use tri-phosphor, which isn't much help.

The last adjustment I did was using an LCD monitor which seemed to have reasonably decent color-decoding and greyscale as my guide. And I'm fairly pleased with the results so far (although I'm sure there's quite a bit of variation in LCDs too). The bulb approach still interests me however, and I'll probably be re-visiting these adjustments a couple more times as I can lay my hands on other potential 6500K sources to test. My eyes may not be very good at guessing what 6500K is w/o a reference, but the more sources I have for comparison, the better I think I'm starting to get at distinguishing the subtler differences between them.

Another prospect I've considered is simply adjusting the greyscale (or one of the other temperature modes) to precisely match my 6500K bias lighting, regardless of how accurate it is... just to keep everything tidy. As nutty as that probably sounds, maybe it would work ok from a purely aesthetic standpoint.

It's a High Hide. A High Hide... See you go up and you hide, high. It goes up to where the trees are, and keeps the researchers out of harms way.

Actually, it'll put them at a very convenient biting height.
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post #731 of 2962 Old 01-16-2006, 03:01 PM
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The bulb I originally used was an inexpensive 18" one from Home Depot. I forget what brand it is (mabye Philips) but I took it to work and had it measured by a wise old man in our spectroradiometer test lab. It didn't do too badly, maybe 150K too warm, and chromaticity was close enough for the money and my gross purposes. I used it for bias lighting too.

But now that I'm ISF calibrated, I've got a bulb from Ideal-lume which is more accurate, but I haven't measured it:

http://www.cinemaquestinc.com/ideal_lume.htm

I have two monitors side-by side at work, a new Dell LCD and an older CRT. The CRT has a "6500K" setting which looks really nice. The LCD never looks very good, color wise. It has 3 preset settings: Blue, Red, Normal. It looks best on "Red". The other settings are way too cool. To be honest I wouldn't trust either monitor as is. It is possible for the user to make custom settings.

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Another prospect I've considered is simply adjusting the greyscale (or one of the other temperature modes) to precisely match my 6500K bias lighting, regardless of how accurate it is... just to keep everything tidy. As nutty as that probably sounds, maybe it would work ok from a purely aesthetic standpoint.

Sounds reasonable, good luck.

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post #732 of 2962 Old 01-16-2006, 04:29 PM
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Tks.
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The bulb I originally used was an inexpensive 18" one from Home Depot. I forget what brand it is (mabye Philips) but I took it to work and had it measured by a wise old man in our spectroradiometer test lab. It didn't do too badly, maybe 150K too warm, and chromaticity was close enough for the money and my gross purposes. I used it for bias lighting too.

Probably a GE or Sylvania, which I've heard may be less close than the Philips. umr posted some chromaticity measurements on the Ideal-Lume here. Not sure which model that applies to though. (I think they use different bulbs depending on the price/model.)

To get really decent results with the bulb/grey card approach, I'm beginning to believe that you'd need a bulb that's close to the CIE D65 chromaticity spec and also very high in color rendering index (CRI), which might rule out most of the over-the-counter bulbs. Despite what's suggested in the link above, those Kodak "grey" cards appear to be a color composite that's probably designed to look neutral in full-spectrum lighting. So the color they reflect back might be somewhat skewed by spikes in a fluorescent bulb's spectral response... another reason I'm leaning a bit more towards the monitor approach at this point, and hoping maybe to find a newer computer LCD monitor with a really decent 6500K setting. Or maybe I can rent a little B&W 6500K SMPTE reference CRT somewhere for a reasonable price.

If you're using a cheaper over-the counter 6500K bulb with a lower CRI but decent chromaticity, perhaps a neutral white card might be less effected by spectral spikes in the bulb.

It's a High Hide. A High Hide... See you go up and you hide, high. It goes up to where the trees are, and keeps the researchers out of harms way.

Actually, it'll put them at a very convenient biting height.
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post #733 of 2962 Old 01-16-2006, 05:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KenTech View Post

Ah! Your dream is our dream! I have never seen an Excel file of it. One look at the MID5 charts should dissuade you from converting it! Maybe a couple of important pages . . .

Getting the original chart (and there must be dozens of variations) would be impossible without a "friend" deep inside Sony.


OK, I've started the project to convert the pdf chart to a spreadsheet - 3 pages down - 18 to go. If I don't kill myself and only do a few pages each day, I should have it done in a little over a week.

In case anyone cares, I'm using OpenOffice, as I don't have the MS Office Suite and prefer open source programs when and where I can use them for free. I can open Excel files in OpenOffice, but am not sure about the reverse compatibility.
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I was resetting the System NVM Data and I pressed 7, 9, then enter twice and now my picture is screwed up and I don't know what I did. HD channels sometimes won't even show up. How can I get the TV back to the way it was before?

Edit: Just thought I'd point out two more things. I have the KD-30XS955. And I can view 480i HD channels but can't view 720p or 1080i HD channels. They just appear dark, but I can hear the sound. What should I be looking to alter in the service menu to bring back these HD channels? Please help
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post #735 of 2962 Old 01-17-2006, 05:47 AM
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Originally Posted by neo505 View Post

I was resetting the System NVM Data and I pressed 7, 9, then enter twice and now my picture is screwed up and I don't know what I did. HD channels sometimes won't even show up. How can I get the TV back to the way it was before?

Edit: Just thought I'd point out two more things. I have the KD-30XS955. And I can view 480i HD channels but can't view 720p or 1080i HD channels. They just appear dark, but I can hear the sound. What should I be looking to alter in the service menu to bring back these HD channels? Please help


Man, that really sucks. Have you tried re-entering all of your original values? I have no idea what resetting the NVM data does, so I stay clear of the 7 and 9 buttons.

Once, I hit 7 by mistake and the screen changed from "Service" to "Initi-" or something like that. I almost had a heart attack - it changed back to "Service" after a couple of seconds thankfully.
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post #736 of 2962 Old 01-17-2006, 07:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KenTech View Post

Here is my experience with these. I have tried hard to understand what the 3DNR (3-D Noise Reduction, also in many DVD players) parameters do and what happens if they're changed. I have put up a 480i picture with critical detail, hard edges and some grainy noise. Then I have gone thru many of the 3DNR settings (if not all!), changing the values up and down to see if anything changed on-screen. In every case where the picture didn't simply disappear, turn to gibberish, or radically reverse color, I couldn't notice anything useful. E.g. I could never find one parameter that might mean "degree of noise reduction" or "detail preservation" with 0 = off, and 1-3 having increasing effect. Nothing.

Maybe I was not using the right test conditions or a suitable picture. Maybe this stuff kicks in only with horrible fringe-reception conditions or bad VHS tapes, I don't know. But I felt it was a waste of time, and I was pleased with the video reproduction as it was. There were so many *other* settings that were critical, I let 3DNR settings alone. I have recently on a rainy Sayurday tried again to identify useful tweaks in 3DNR. No-go; nothing new.

Having said that, and having little use for the horribly unsophisticated "enhancements" of the Vivid mode, I have taken over Vivid for my own purposes and made sure *all* of the mode-dependent settings were initially identical to Pro, a conservative picture mode. Parameters nos. 43 and 41 didn't respond to tweaking, and now I don't care, my initial reasoning being "if the only change in the chart is for Vivid, I don't need it!"

Bottom line: So many other parameters are more important, I wouldn't sweat a single drop over this. My chart shows exceptions in the Vivid-Others column for #62, too, but I have long ago made these parameters all the same for all modes (same as Pro). And that's where they have stayed, including the more radically changing #45-CLV.

]

Ken, Any recommended settings for GYR and GYB?

It seems i've been fiddling around with these settings a lot lately and can't seem to get the greens right so i just left them at default values of GYR-9 and GYB-6 for now but i think there is room for improvemnt to make them better, any recommended settings you would use?I tried the color filters from DVE and tried using RGBS to turn just the green gun on but it seems i have to adjust GYR-GYB very low to match the back ground color in essence creating a green push which i don't think is right.

Any recommended settings to fix this issue?

Matt~
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post #737 of 2962 Old 01-17-2006, 09:10 AM
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Well...I was able to bring back the dark HD stations by changing the value of FIXS in the CA2171 category. It looks like I only need to change some geometry and everything will be back to normal...I hope. But any help is still greatly appreciated.
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post #738 of 2962 Old 01-17-2006, 10:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by SurfingMatt27 View Post

Ken, Any recommended settings for GYR and GYB?

Yes. This is an easy one.

These settings do not adjust the individual colors. Thay set up a complex decoding martix for extracting color, and it really can't be eyeballed. For any one input, there really is only one correct setting. If you use the DVE or AVIA DVDs for setting up your DVD player's input, you have done it right. Period. If you still aren't happy with the greens, you can't blame the player/TV combination!

The good news is that most inputs share the same color-matrix settings just fine, and using DVE to set these parameters will also set it for all other similar inputs. If you wish to go through the process on your own set (DVE works well), I recommend you use 2170P-2/RGBS to turn on only the individual color guns instead of using the color filters.

More good news: Many folks have reported roughtly the same settings after they go through this process. For me it was 14-14-5-3 for RYR thru GYB, respectively. There is a little sloppiness in the proces, and at other times I have set it to 13-15-5-3, and so have others. Not a big deal, since you have gotten away from the huge red push that comes from the factory. I assigned these settings to the "Standard (Normal?)" choice in the user menus.

Viewing those color bars with the green-only gun really explicitly identifies green push; so it does with red, too. Get that right, and your TV is now okay. Or you can just punch in the above numbers (14-14-5-3), and you will be *very* close. For you, the 5-3 pair is all-inportant.

You might be seeing a green push in the original video material for some reason. Food commercials use a red or red-orange "push" all the time. The demo videos on DVE are fairly neutral, and you might start there to see what you've accomplished.

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post #739 of 2962 Old 01-17-2006, 03:32 PM
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[quote=KenTech] I recommend you use 2170P-2/RGBS to turn on only the individual color guns instead of using the color filters.

Viewing those color bars with the green-only gun really explicitly identifies green push; so it does with red, too. Get that right, and your TV is now okay. Or you can just punch in the above numbers (14-14-5-3), and you will be *very* close. For you, the 5-3 pair is all-important. QUOTE]

Yes, use 2170-2/RGBS instead of the DVE filters. They are much more accurate !!
I have my matrix/decoder settings at 14-13-6-3 with a an average gray scale color temp of around 6600 kelvin (measured with DVE & SpyderTV).
I have found that the levels of RGB as decoded change as a function of the color slider with blue the most sensitive and green the least. That is to say that when you back down the color slider (I always have to do this after this adj in DVE) blue de-saturates more than red and red more than green. This can be seen easily when viewing the color decoder check in AVIA (it gives +/- 20% squares).
I don't know if this is a color axis change (tint) or if Sony designed it that way to de-saturate blue Vs the way too blue gray scale these sets come with.
I also fought a similar problem in calibrating the grey scale (color temp changes Vs color slider)

For this reason it may be best to "touch up" the color matrix/decoder settings a notch here and there to compensate for some non-linearities in Sony's design.
Example:If skintones look too green or red or tint of primary/secondary colors looks off. I think initially I had my GYR-GYB at 7-4 but changed it to compensate when I run the color slider back down to a more reasonable level (especially for analog cable) !!!

Todd
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post #740 of 2962 Old 01-17-2006, 10:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by todd95008 View Post

I have found that the levels of RGB as decoded change as a function of the color slider with blue the most sensitive and green the least. That is to say that when you back down the color slider (I always have to do this after this adj in DVE) blue de-saturates more than red and red more than green. This can be seen easily when viewing the color decoder check in AVIA (it gives +/- 20% squares).

Well, isn't *that* interesting! I wonder if that is a correct interpretation of those results. I will experiment in the next few days and see if I come to the same conclusion.

What I fond odd -- and this would be with the settings for color matrix, color amount (Color), and color phase (Hue) set just right with the DVE patterns -- is that the AVIA color-decoder check routinely shows a bit of blue push on my TV. Not a lot. But it does make those blue-nylon parkas people wear in outdoor shots seem, well, *electric.* It's not a push that irritates me, as red does.

I have pulled the color charts off of the DVE disk and measured them on a computer, and they're dead-on, so we can't blame the disk.

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post #741 of 2962 Old 01-18-2006, 12:40 AM
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Well, isn't *that* interesting! I wonder if that is a correct interpretation of those results. I will experiment in the next few days and see if I come to the same conclusion.

I have pulled the color charts off of the DVE disk and measured them on a computer, and they're dead-on, so we can't blame the disk.

With AVIA, once you get the 3 colors & tints (all boxes equal) you can run the color slider down until green is at -5% and measure blue and red.
Red will be about -10% and blue at -15%.
As i said before, I think this was designed in to offset the >10k color temp out of the box.

I don't blame DVE (I get similar results with AVIA) but do think the Sony sets have some weird offsets or color leakage in both the matrix decoder and the gray scale RGB cuts (at least the HS420 does).

If you have a problem with blue push (never measued that) it may be from CXA2171-3/4 ?
My HS420 series had the blue one notch higher than red by default.
This will not change cuts & drives (grayscale) but will increase red or blue saturation (only for V5/6 and HDMI) so before the final (sure final) round of calibration I set both to 5 or 6.
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post #742 of 2962 Old 01-18-2006, 01:22 AM
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neo505,

If you need other help than can be found here I believe there's a "900" number that can be contacted for "non-authorized service tech support" from Sony for a fee (somethin like $3/minute with a minimum of $20/call). Sony Parts (800-488-SONY) should have more info. How much help they'd be in your situation, I don't know. Never had the stones to try an NVM reset for fear of removing factory SM adjustments. Getting the TV serviced (or perhaps worked on by a professional calibrator) might be another option, though that could run more $$ if it's out of warranty.

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post #743 of 2962 Old 01-18-2006, 12:26 PM
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todd95008,

The behavior you're seeing with the Color control may be normal. While it's tempting to think of that as simply your "saturation" adjustment, it's unfortunately a bit more complicated than that, and more of a crucial link in the TV's color decoding system. To maintain the most accurate color on the display, the Color and Hue controls really shouldn't be changed once the decoders have been properly adjusted.

*The CXA2171/CBGN, CRGN, YGN controls you're referring to are I believe 1080i color decoding offsets, possibly designed to compensate for minor differences in color-decoding between 1080i and other signals. I think most or all of the parameters in that circuit should be 1080i/33.75kHz-related.

*CXA2171/MTRX is I believe possibly designed to change the color space on the TV. If all you're running is basic OTA or cable/sat 1080i, I don't think their should be a reason to change this. However, in case you're tempted... be advised that the MTRX parameter seems to work differently with respect to reading and writing from memory than most other parameters.

[*Edit: Some of the above speculations were not exactly correct. Please see the following pages for more current and IMO correct info on how the MTRX and other CXA2171 parameters really work and should be used.]

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post #744 of 2962 Old 01-18-2006, 04:22 PM
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todd95008,

The behavior you're seeing with the Color control may be normal. While it's tempting to think of that as simply your "saturation" adjustment, it's unfortunately a bit more complicated than that, and more of a crucial link in the TV's color decoding system. To maintain the most accurate color on the display, the Color and Hue controls really shouldn't be changed once the decoders have been properly adjusted.

The CXA2171/CBGN, CRGN, YGN controls you're referring to are I believe 1080i color decoding offsets, designed to compensate for minor differences in color-decoding between 31.5KHz 480p signals and 33.75khz 1080i signals. I think most or all of the parameters in that circuit should be 1080i/33.75kHz-related.

CXA2171/MTRX is I believe designed to change the color space for input devices that don't conform to the usual ATSC color space. If all you're running is basic OTA or cable/sat 1080i, I don't think their should be a reason to change this. However, in case you're tempted... BE ADVISED that the MTRX value is automatically stored without being saved to memory. So be sure to make note of the original value before changing it. This control is "global" (ie effects 1080i on all inputs) as opposed to input-sensitive on my 34XBR800 btw... though it's quite possible that may have been changed on newer Sony models.

In theory yes, the color control should not need to be adjusted once the chroma/color decoder is adjusted. When I do this with my calibrated PC monitor everything is fine but with the sony I have to run the color level back down to keep all colors from looking like cartoons. Even the video samples on DVE look oversaturated and these tend to be very accurate compared with most DVD's.
I won't even talk about the way oversaturated cable tv !!!

Yes the MTRX value is for HD but the CXA2171/CBGN, CRGN controls are for component inputs (480i to 1080i). When you have a proper greyscale (one that is not too blue) they should be the same number. I set mine to match measured test signals on RF & composite/s-video inputs. If I left them at the factory default blue was too strong !! I don't have my charts here but I think I set both to 6 ??

Todd
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post #745 of 2962 Old 01-18-2006, 06:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by todd95008 View Post

In theory yes, the color control should not need to be adjusted once the chroma/color decoder is adjusted. When I do this with my calibrated PC monitor everything is fine but with the sony I have to run the color level back down to keep all colors from looking like cartoons. Even the video samples on DVE look oversaturated and these tend to be very accurate compared with most DVD's.

Interesting, because this is not my experience with my 36XS955. When the set is calibrated for Color, Hue, and the color matrix (14-14-5-3), the observed colors are quite natural on DVDs in general, DVE in particular. The restaurant scene in Title 17 is perfect!

Analog-cable broadcast, on the other hand, is all over the place. I typically run the COlor down from 31 to 22-26 for MTV, FoodTV, sometimes HGTV. (Sometimes program-dependent.) Black level shows similar anarchy! But DVDs and most HDTV? Glorious.

Wonder how your TV differs . . .

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post #746 of 2962 Old 01-19-2006, 12:55 AM
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Hi,
I am new here and i just got my hs420 set yesturday, but have one problem.
There is a slight upwards bow on the picture on the left and right sides of the screen. It is most noticable when a ticker is crossing the screen and when playing a fps on my 360 (moving horizontally). I have tried to fix it in the service menu, but have had no luck. I have tried RSAP, LBOW, RBOW,VBOW,PIN, and a few other things. Is this adjustable??? If it isnt i will live with it because its not that big of a deal (right at the moment). I also dont want to have to EVER lug this tv downstairs, as it was a nightmare bringing it up. PLEASE, Any help will be appreciated. THANKS.....
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post #747 of 2962 Old 01-19-2006, 06:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Cleanupthat View Post

Hi,
I am new here and i just got my hs420 set yesturday, but have one problem.
There is a slight upwards bow on the picture on the left and right sides of the screen. It is most noticable when a ticker is crossing the screen and when playing a fps on my 360 (moving horizontally). I have tried to fix it in the service menu, but have had no luck. I have tried RSAP, LBOW, RBOW,VBOW,PIN, and a few other things. Is this adjustable??? If it isnt i will live with it because its not that big of a deal (right at the moment). I also dont want to have to EVER lug this tv downstairs, as it was a nightmare bringing it up. PLEASE, Any help will be appreciated. THANKS.....

You might try VCEN, VPIN and HTPZ. A crosshatch pattern should be used to accurately set these parameters. VCEN is used to equalize the vertical bow at the top and bottom of screen. VPIN is used to make the vertical lines as straight as possible. HTPZ is used to make the horizontal lines as parallel as possible.

Raoul

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post #748 of 2962 Old 01-19-2006, 08:00 AM
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Originally Posted by raouliii View Post

You might try VCEN, VPIN and HTPZ. A crosshatch pattern should be used to accurately set these parameters. VCEN is used to equalize the vertical bow at the top and bottom of screen. VPIN is used to make the vertical lines as straight as possible. HTPZ is used to make the horizontal lines as parallel as possible.

Raoul

I can confirm that these are the settings I used to correct a similar "bow" on my 34HS420.
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post #749 of 2962 Old 01-19-2006, 08:42 AM
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Thank you, i will try those settings and i will reply back on how it goes.
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post #750 of 2962 Old 01-19-2006, 09:14 AM
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Thanks ken i appreciate the help!

I just left my GYr-GYB serttings at default since i did'nt see much improvement setting them lower,since all it did was actually cause a green push and colors to bleed.So instead i'm quite happy at them being in their factory defaults of GYR-9 and GYB-6.

I got rid of red push though by adjusting RYR-15 and RYB-15 though by using DVE.

Thanks for your help

Matt~
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