THE SONY SERVICE CODES - Articles, Comments, Discoveries - Page 60 - AVS Forum
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post #1771 of 2973 Old 07-05-2006, 09:28 PM
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yes?

yes?
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post #1772 of 2973 Old 07-06-2006, 12:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irhxcbcziuzxs View Post

yes?

Maybe.

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post #1773 of 2973 Old 07-06-2006, 07:37 AM
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Welcome to the Forum!

Thanks for the warm welcome.
What an invaluable resource this is!


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Originally Posted by KenTech View Post

Use the blue to adjust Color and Hue, too before proceeding.

Ahh... this is what I wasn't doing. I was just centering the User Menu for Color & Hue; and calibrating Red, Green from there. Blue is so deep and dark, that it looked close enough this way; but now that I've made adjustments to UCOF (2) & UHOF (3) Blue is right on. Thanks for the clarification...


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I would toss the plastic filter card and, for sure,

*WOW* what a difference. *Much* easier to calibrate the color with RGBS...


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Most folks have compromised on settings near 14-14-6-4. Even when I vacillate among different settings for the first two parameters, the -6-4 part seems solid.

yes, now I'm right there, too: 14-14(15)-6(7)-4; with alternate settings that I waivered between in parenthesis...

Side Note:
One thing that I noticed is with properly calibrated Color, it's *much easier* to set Picture. Now, when I push Picture too high, a very obvious color-shift (warm) happens in the brightest White (100%?) in the DVE Pulge & Grayscale pattern. I've come to realize, however, that Picture is really a very subjective setting, with a wide range of "correct" based upon personal preference.

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post #1774 of 2973 Old 07-06-2006, 09:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by corlay View Post

One thing that I noticed is with properly calibrated Color, it's *much easier* to set Picture. Now, when I push Picture too high, a very obvious color-shift (warm) happens in the brightest White (100%?) in the DVE Pulge & Grayscale pattern. I've come to realize, however, that Picture is really a very subjective setting, with a wide range of "correct" based upon personal preference.

I can't speak for your TV, but I'm thinking that that "pinkish" cast in whites when they're very bright might be (partly?) an illusion. It certainly complicates adjusting grayscale by eye, so I am careful to reduce intensity when evaluating grayscale. I suspect that it's an artifact of human vision because I see the same thing in natural scenes outdoors: brilliant clouds against an otherwise blue sky or trees appear a bit "pink" when they have no reason to be so.

The science is that both color and intensity in vision are incredibly adaptive.

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post #1775 of 2973 Old 07-06-2006, 10:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KenTech View Post

I can't speak for your TV, but I'm thinking that that "pinkish" cast in whites when they're very bright might be (partly?) an illusion.

actually, the "warmness" that I see is more yellow-ish than pink-ish. Probably because my set is still @ factory defaults for gamma, and grayscale settings?

and now that I think of it...
grayscale is *independent* of color settings, right? So color calibration should have no affect upon my Picture setting? But that "warmness" I see is definitely new. Hmmmm...

Oh, you know? I might have still been in "Warm" color mode (I've prefered it to "Neutral" up untill re-calibrating last night, now I'm not so sure...) when I re-adjusted Picture. Will "warm" cast color into bright white in an over exposed display? That might explain it...

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post #1776 of 2973 Old 07-06-2006, 02:17 PM
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should the edges between the different color squares in the DVE test patterns be sharply defined? Certain color adjacencies on mine seem to bleed together (like a Mark Rothko painting), with the boundaries a bit darker than the colors in the center of the squares. Is this normal? Or is this what a 'convergance issue' is?

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post #1777 of 2973 Old 07-07-2006, 11:24 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corlay View Post

grayscale is *independent* of color settings, right? So color calibration should have no affect upon my Picture setting? But that "warmness" I see is definitely new.

To clarify . . . The Cutoff and Drive settings (2170P-1/_DRV and _CUT) for the R-G-B guns in the CRT affect everything having to do with color. They are how both the linearity of grayscale and the color of grays are set. The color-balance matrix settings, RYR~GYB, are in play only when there is color in the video. Their action is something like: If there is red in this video, how much red should be displayed onscreen, relative to blue (standard) and green (the other adjustment)? Same for green. The DVE pattern, for example, is a set of color patches on a gray background, all of which have a brightness of 75%. If red is being exaggerated (the infamous "red push"), that square will appear brighter than the background when the red gun only is turned on.

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post #1778 of 2973 Old 07-07-2006, 11:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corlay View Post

should the edges between the different color squares in the DVE test patterns be sharply defined? Certain color adjacencies on mine seem to bleed together (like a Mark Rothko painting), with the boundaries a bit darker than the colors in the center of the squares. Is this normal?

Yes. Adjacent bright colors are not cleanly delineated in NTSC TV because the process of encoding and decoding color causes some colors to be slightly delayed relative to others, and adjacent blocks can separate slightly (darkening) or overlap (bright line). It would be especially obnoxious in NTSC broadcast, but it's there on component-connected and HDMI DVD, and even the set's internal 480i test patterns. Comes with the territory, but hardly noticable in normal viewing.

In contrast, digital TV standards separate the colors much more cleanly, especially HD.

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post #1779 of 2973 Old 07-07-2006, 01:08 PM
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As learned in this thread, UCOF and UHOF are displaymode-specific and input-specific *offsets* for Color and Hue respectively. But following the logic of Sony's SM, shouldn't there be a *global* control for setting color & hue, and the offesets only invoked as needed for a particular mode and input path? I've searched this thread and see no mention of such a setting?

Post #140 outlines a process,
that includes:

"(5) Set 2170P2/RGBS to 1 (blue) and adjust 2170P-3/UCOF for correct color amount and UHOF for correct hue. WRITE the settings."

But it seems like there should be a global control to adjust color/hue for calibating RGBS=1 (blue)? Just like RYR,RYB,GYR, GYB are global settings.

Seems like offsets should only be invoked if a particular input is a bit off from DVD 480i, like some have reported.

Seems like the relationships of the settings should work like SBRT and UBOF do. No?

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[comments below added later...]

whoops.

I found it in post #177.

2170P-4 #4-6/SPIO-SHUO

are the global offsets that I'd assumed existed.

sorry for the false alarm...

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post #1780 of 2973 Old 07-07-2006, 06:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corlay View Post

As learned in this thread, UCOF and UHOF are displaymode-specific and input-specific *offsets* for Color and Hue respectively. But following the logic of Sony's SM, shouldn't there be a *global* control for setting color & hue, and the offesets only invoked as needed for a particular mode and input path? I've searched this thread and see no mention of such a setting?

I tried to summarize these controls in the document attached here, named GS&ColorCharts04.pdf. This stuff drove me nuts until I consolidated the information in one place! You're correct in your assumptions, of course.

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post #1781 of 2973 Old 07-09-2006, 12:18 AM
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Quick question. Are Geometry settings not resolution dependent? When I change the settings in 720p they are reflected in 480p and vice versa. This causes one of the modes to have severe geometry problems. It would seem they would be set to their respective res. but that is definitely not the case with my new 970. I've read plenty, but I am new to this; any help would be greatly appreciated.
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post #1782 of 2973 Old 07-09-2006, 11:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TotallyTubular View Post

Quick question. Are Geometry settings not resolution dependent?

It depends on exactly which geometry setting you're looking at. (And you are using the term "resolution" loosely. I understand the question, though.) Some, such as aspect-ratio (2170D-1/ASPT), a vertical-size setting, have individual values for each possible video-display mode. But overall width, for example, has only a global setting plus one additional for "wide-zoom."

Vertical linearity is another. When I have 2170D-1/VLIN and VSCO set perfectly for full 4:3 display on my 36XS955, there is a slight stretch to the center of any 16:9 display, which you can see when movie credits roll. But if I correct that, then the 4:3 display has a slight central "pinch." So a compromise is necessary. Your issues will be somewhat different if you have a 16:9 TV.

The service-data charts make clear, with their multiple or single columns, which parameters are video-mode dependent and which aren't. You should examine those charts for your TV.

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post #1783 of 2973 Old 07-09-2006, 02:09 PM
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KT,

Just wanted to chime in and thank you for all your (sometimes daring) hard work. It's really helped me out a lot. I'd not have the confidence, nor the know-how to 'twiddle' without this forum...

Last night, I tried out your method for tuning the 2103 processor for sharpness, and the new approach to SYSM=3 image processing; and all I can say is: "wow".

One question:
When viewing the Title.13, Ch.2 slide in DVE for tuning sharpness, the shifts in clarity on my set weren't so cut and dried as your article made it seem it would be. Mine's not a superfinepitch, so maybe that's the difference? There were some PPHA positions where the black/white vertical lines just blurred completely into gray (definitely *not* a "sweet spot"); but the one's that looked ok seem to comprise a *range* of 3-4 steps, vs. the obvious good/bad appearence between adjacent steps that your article suggests. I just set it to the middle of a good range, and it seems to be pretty good.

Also, what was troubling about going through this exercise was that the the box in the DVE pattern that includes the finest *horizontal* lines was not static on my display. It has a lot of flicker. Is there a way to make *horizontal* image refinement in the SM as well? This flicker reduces quite a bit when I set the TV to 'progressive' vs. 'interlaced' but it doesn't completely dissapear.

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post #1784 of 2973 Old 07-10-2006, 08:51 AM
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KenTech, thanks for your helpful answers!!! ...but the worst problem I have are the pink patches that can be seen when a full white screen is displayed. Is there any posibility to fix this?

Thanks in advance!
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post #1785 of 2973 Old 07-10-2006, 09:08 AM
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I have run into a problem with my set running 480i 4:3 material via composite video (video game systems). About a half and inch or more is cut off the bottom of the screen, and adjusting VSIZ or VPOS doesn't correct it. Is there anyway to fix this. What gives?
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post #1786 of 2973 Old 07-10-2006, 09:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aleavsf View Post

KenTech, thanks for your helpful answers!!! ...but the worst problem I have are the pink patches that can be seen when a full white screen is displayed. Is there any posibility to fix this?

Thanks in advance!

Are the splotches in the corners or somewhere else?

See Ken's post here about adjusting the landing settings:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&&#post5687363
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post #1787 of 2973 Old 07-10-2006, 11:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RWetmore View Post

Are the splotches in the corners or somewhere else?

See Ken's post here about adjusting the landing settings:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&&#post5687363

Seems LANDING always fixes the pink patches but does anyone know about light blue patches? I heard someone say those were caused by the grill failing?
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post #1788 of 2973 Old 07-10-2006, 12:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mortaldivine View Post

Seems LANDING always fixes the pink patches but does anyone know about light blue patches? I heard someone say those were caused by the grill failing?

Where are the light blue patches? If they are in the corners, then it's probably a beam landing issue.
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post #1789 of 2973 Old 07-10-2006, 12:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RWetmore View Post

Where are the light blue patches? If they are in the corners, then it's probably a beam landing issue.

Right top and bottom corners. There are also some dark areas on the left side of the tv. Basically, the right and left of my screen is developing all sorts of color/darkening issues. I tried the LANDING settings and it was looking worse so I stopped.
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post #1790 of 2973 Old 07-10-2006, 04:23 PM
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Hi all,

I wanted to ask some of the more proficient adjusters if they could help me track down the source of this problem.
I was trying to access the rear of my set (34-xs955) and while turning this 200 pounder, the stiction of the base gave out and it moved with a slight jerking pop.
When I turned the set back on, the bottom half of the picture was bowing upwards. I had adjusted for this in the past with the VCENT setting, but this time the adjustment had no effect even when running it from one end to the other (0-63). I am assuming that I must have lost a solder connection in that abrubt shift.
My question is, is there a particular board or chip that controls the group of settings that this adjustment is in. If I were to have it serviced, I'd like to be able to point them in the general direction.
Thank you in advance for any advice.

Bryan
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post #1791 of 2973 Old 07-10-2006, 10:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RWetmore View Post

Where are the light blue patches? If they are in the corners, then it's probably a beam landing issue.

Another relevant question: Are the patches there regardless of the brightness of the screen? Weird colors in the corners or along the sides that are LANDING problems are not brightness-dependent. But light-bluish patches that appear after a few seconds of bright white are a warping of the aperture grille, temporary in every case I've seen. The worst case is white from top to bottom, which heats up the same grille wires from top to bottom, causing them to expand and go out of alignment. On my set, the color patches go away when the program material goes back to normal brightness. White test patterns are the worst.

Try comparing the problem with a bright screen, and then with maybe a 30% gray from one of the test DVDs. If the color patches go away, it's warping. Nothing you can do.

That LANDING-adjustment procedure just mentioned is still a good one by me.

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post #1792 of 2973 Old 07-10-2006, 10:45 PM
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Hi, when I have red push disabled skin tones and yellows appear SLIGHTLY green at times and reds sometimes appear slightly purplish on certain HD material(1 out of 10 movies) while other HD material looks fine. When I have red push enabled and have the color toned down to compensate, flesh tones look slightly better and yellows appear good on all HD material but ofcourse green and blue objects appear lack saturation and the image appears too baige. I changed my color decoder adjustments for non redpush to 10, 10, 8, 5 and feel like all is good with the exception of the Happy Gilmore HD DVD where the colors appear to be a little bit off. IMO, when the color axis is set to Monitor on my set, reds appear to be overly subdued and that is why I get slightly greenish yellows and purplish reds at times instead of red colors being presented equally with blue and green. I would like some opinions on this from other people who view HD with red push disabled.

Since out of all of my HD DVDs(I own 6), this effect is only present on Happy Gilmore, I am hoping that my set's colors are not off and Happy Gilmore was made with incorrect colors. An example of discoloration during Happy Gilmore would be during the scene where the movers are outside and teeing up to play a little bit of golf. I can swear that the black man has a purplish hue to his skin tone and the white man's skin tone appears fine at times but appears slightly green during others. Also, when viewing the chapter that starts off with a red pepsi flag waving, the flag appears slightly neon pinkish red instead of regular red. Can somebody with Happy Gilmore please check the colors and tell me if it is my set or the movie that has the off colors? It would be much appreciated.
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post #1793 of 2973 Old 07-11-2006, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Spankenstein View Post

When I turned the set back on, the bottom half of the picture was bowing upwards. I had adjusted for this in the past with the VCENT setting, but this time the adjustment had no effect even when running it from one end to the other (0-63).

You've probably already thought of this, but just in case it helps .... I might wonder if a factory placed "permaalloy assembly" (magnet) fell off the back of the tube, although that wouldn't explain why there is no effect whatsoever when changing VCEN.

Jeff
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post #1794 of 2973 Old 07-11-2006, 01:26 PM
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Jeff,

No, I hadn't thought of that, but I have been getting up the nerve to open the case and check one of the magnets in the upper right-hand corner so I will check for one in that bottom area at that time.
Did anyone find out the chip/board that governs the VCEN setting OR what other settings might be rendered inoperable if a faulty solder joint/chip/board has failed?
Thanks for the suggestion,

Bryan
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post #1795 of 2973 Old 07-12-2006, 09:26 AM
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I cannot get into service mode. Help!
I recently purchased a floor model 960 and I can't get into the service mode.
Do I need a specific Sony remote? My 960 did not come with a remote and I am using one from an older Sony set.
I am following the directions at the beginning of this thread Display-5-volume+-power, and starting with the TV in the off position. I am beginning to believe it has something to do with my remote, is there some other code the remote sends along with the buttons function?
I have tested my remote and it seems to do the functions accordingly. When I hit display the display window comes up, when I hit volume the volume goes up, when I hit 5, well nothing happens which it shouldn't because I am in my input #7 HDMI (I am sure it works because it changes the channel on my other sony set), when I hit power the unit goes off or on.

Any Ideas?
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post #1796 of 2973 Old 07-12-2006, 11:57 AM
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Start with the Tv on. Then In Quick succession Press power off, Display, 5, volume +, power on. The Service Menu data should then appear on your screen in monochrome green.
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post #1797 of 2973 Old 07-12-2006, 12:09 PM
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very consistiently, throughout this discussion, 480p (via component) is labeled as the blackest input. And one is advised to set SBRT value based upon this (with a dvd pulge pattern) with that input's UBOF=0; and then ratchet everything else up, as needed, via UBOF.

The theory being, if 480p(component) is the darkest, everything else offests upwards from that lowest common denomonator.

But, in my case, a UBOF=0, SBRT-calibrated 480i(component) is *much blacker*; with a UBOF=4 setting required in 480p to achieve proper calibration there (via DVD pulge)

This scares me a bit, and makes me wonder if I've got a whacked-out setting somewhere?

Could someone point me in the right direction to look?
(I'll probably start by going through KT's custom chart, comparing my input-specific settings between 480i(component) & 480p(component))

My set is KV420HS
and player is Pioneer 563a
if that makes a difference...

thanks.

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post #1798 of 2973 Old 07-12-2006, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corlay View Post

very consistiently, throughout this discussion, 480p (via component) is labeled as the blackest input. And one is advised to set SBRT value based upon this (with a dvd pulge pattern) with that input's UBOF=0; and then ratchet everything else up, as needed, via UBOF.

The theory being, if 480p(component) is the darkest, everything else offests upwards from that lowest common denomonator.

Don't think there's anything of particular importance involved concerning *which* particular scan rate/input/device gets the lowest UBOF setting, which of course would be the "lightest or "whiteist(lol, I'm sure THAT's not a word)" not the "blackest" input/scan rate/"device"/etc ...

In my case, It does so happen that 480p via Component from *my* particular DVD player requires the lowest UBOF setting to balance black level among all inputs/scan rates(to use the same "brightness" slider setting for all inputs/scan rates), even though 480i via component from the *same* player requires UBOF=1 to "match". I would not assume that would allways be the case for others ...

Quote:


But, in my case, a UBOF=0, SBRT-calibrated 480i(component) is *much blacker*; with a UBOF=4 setting required in 480p to achieve proper calibration there (via DVD pulge)

This scares me a bit, and makes me wonder if I've got a whacked-out setting somewhere?

I need UBOF=0/1 for 480p/480i via component from my particular DVD player, and everything else needs to be UBOF=4~5, if it were say, 480i via component DVD that needed UBOF=0, and 480p from same player needed UBOF=4 personally, I wouldn't be concerned, but I might be a bit curious concerning why the black levels seem so "different" for different scan rate from the same player ...

Probably curious enough to hook the player up to another set to see if I could detirmine if similar results(quite different black level from 480i+480p output from the same player) occured.

Jeff
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post #1799 of 2973 Old 07-12-2006, 12:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nitewatchman View Post

concerning *which* particular scan rate/input/device gets the lowest UBOF setting, which of course would be the "lightest or "whiteist(lol, I'm sure THAT's not a word)" not the "blackest" input/scan rate/"device"/etc ...

yeah, that's what I meant.
<--- what he said...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nitewatchman View Post

I need UBOF=0/1 for 480p/480i via component from my particular DVD player, and everything else needs to be UBOF=4~5,

I've always wondered why most participants here offset *all* of their inputs to some degree? Is it that a properly calibrated Brightness, although technically correct, is just too black for television viewing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nitewatchman View Post

if it were say, 480i via component DVD that needed UBOF=0, and 480p from same player needed UBOF=4 personally, I wouldn't be concerned, but I might be a bit curious concerning why the black levels seem so "different" for different scan rate from the same player ...

480p was achieved by sending progressive from the player, as opposed to sending interlaced and letting the Sony convert to progressive. Maybe that's why?

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corlay
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post #1800 of 2973 Old 07-12-2006, 01:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corlay View Post

I've always wondered why most participants here offset *all* of their inputs to some degree? Is it that a properly calibrated Brightness, although technically correct, is just too black for television viewing?

Well, for UBOF, it's just so we can use the *same* brightness slider setting for any input/scan rate/etc and achieve the same black level without either constantly twiddling the brightness slider(especially for those who choose to use "mode memory off, but this would effect even those who use mode memory "on" from for instance, a DVD player hooked up to component input 5 who need different black level settings for 480i vs 480p from the same player), and for having a simple to remember "reference" for the brightness slider for easily knowing what brightness slider value=properly calibarted black level on any input/scan rate.

Keep in mind, as far as the actual "effects" go Changing UBOF by a value of "1" is the *same* as changing "brightness" slider by "2". Same thing for SBRT, which is "global" and not input or scan rate specific like UBOF.

Quote:


480p was achieved by sending progressive from the player, as opposed to sending interlaced and letting the Sony convert to progressive. Maybe that's why?

That has not been my experience, regardless of which DRC setting(interlaced, Progressive or Cinemotion) is used with 480i. For instance, I get the same results when hooking same the DVD player up to another set concerning black levels from 480i from that player vs 480p from the same player, it's just slightly "blacker" from the 480i output from the player.

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