THE SONY SERVICE CODES - Articles, Comments, Discoveries - Page 63 - AVS Forum
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post #1861 of 2973 Old 07-29-2006, 08:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjmilo View Post

2170P-4 #31 LRGB
intensity increases with increase in numerical value

Thank you!
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post #1862 of 2973 Old 07-31-2006, 04:48 PM
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Hello KenTech and others. Thank you for this resource. I have a 36XS955 arriving shortly, and a copy of Digital Video Essentials that I will use in accordance with this thread to hopefully improve the image quality on my new set.

My question, though, relates to my SDTV from 2001, a Sony KD-36XBR250. I never calibrated this set outside of eliminating over-scan to the best of my abilities, and figure there's still some locked potential in there. Now that I have the Digital Video Essentials DVD, I'm ready to try my hand at some more serious calibration (and I could use the practice before I start tweaking the new 36XS955). The problem is that I can't find my Sony Service Codes print-out I got online when I first bought the set. I've google searched and searched on this site specifically, but don't come up with anything at all. Anyone know a source? Thanks a bunch.
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post #1863 of 2973 Old 08-01-2006, 01:22 PM
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Hey! I'm having a slight problem with my set, although it seems to be a common problem with all tube-type TV's.

You know when you have a primarily black screen, and then there is a spot of white displayed, and you can see where it creates a darker line of black across the whole screen? That is the issue I'm seeing with my TV (although not to the extent of regular TV's, but still noticable in certain conditions).

Is there any way to fix this, or do I have to deal with it?

Thanks!

PS - I guess its worth noting I have my set calibrated based on KenTech's settings and such.
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post #1864 of 2973 Old 08-01-2006, 05:58 PM
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I have a question, but am not sure how to describe exactly what I am asking. I'll just go with it and hope you get the idea of where I'm going.

Ok, what determines the detail or resolution of what you see on the screen? For example, in 720p, is it the total size of the raster that makes up the 1280x720 lines of detail or is it the image itself?

Basically, I found that on my set I cannot achieve reasonably linearity without increasing the size of the raster itself to about 110% the size of the image. After which, I adjust for overscan.

By not filling the entire raster am I losing image detail? Or is my question confusing? If so Ill draw up a few pictures to give an idea. I'm just trying to understand the relationship between the raster and the image layer in terms of the maximum lines of resolution for each progressive and interlaced scan mode.
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post #1865 of 2973 Old 08-02-2006, 09:00 AM
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i have a quandry... should i spring for a $300 isf calibration or try these tweaks myself? my concern is not in the risks that come with fooling with the service menu, but if there are things that might impact my picture that i can't do by myself without a professional, and those things are significant, i'm just going to spring for a pro calibration.

can anybody lend me some insight as to how diy service menu tweaks, done correctly, compare to a proper isf job?

"There's a... big machine in the sky... Some sort of... electric snake. It's headed right for us..."
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post #1866 of 2973 Old 08-02-2006, 09:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darcon_adonis View Post

Hey! I'm having a slight problem with my set, although it seems to be a common problem with all tube-type TV's.

You know when you have a primarily black screen, and then there is a spot of white displayed, and you can see where it creates a darker line of black across the whole screen? That is the issue I'm seeing with my TV (although not to the extent of regular TV's, but still noticable in certain conditions).

Is there any way to fix this, or do I have to deal with it?

Thanks!

PS - I guess its worth noting I have my set calibrated based on KenTech's settings and such.

How thick (or thin) is the black line you are seeing?
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post #1867 of 2973 Old 08-02-2006, 09:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrGonk View Post

i have a quandry... should i spring for a $300 isf calibration or try these tweaks myself? my concern is not in the risks that come with fooling with the service menu, but if there are things that might impact my picture that i can't do by myself without a professional, and those things are significant, i'm just going to spring for a pro calibration.

can anybody lend me some insight as to how diy service menu tweaks, done correctly, compare to a proper isf job?

i've been struggling with the same question. I have made a number of positive adjustments based on info learned here. I just love my picture. But I have good acquaintances on this forum that have paid for a pro calibration that are ecstatic with the results. I would love to have even better picture quality than I already enjoy, but will the "bang" be worth my buck?

I suspect that because the pros have specialized equipment (which I don't have), they could achieve results significantly beyond what I might get. Is it worth the price? I guess the only way I'll know is to spring the funds for it and find out myself. I just haven't reached that point yet.

If you are very, very comfortable with the vast majority of adjustments described here by KenTech and others you might just get very close. I'm not quite that ambitious, nor am I that confident in my abilities. Plus, I really don't want to spend the kind of time it would take to study and get things right. I'm pretty sure KenTech is fully satisfied with his results - and based on what he posts, I don't think he'll be paying for a pro calibration any time soon (if I've read him correctly). The work he's done here sharing his thoughts and results is nothing short of incredible. Of course, there's a number of others that he frequently replies to or debates with that have added even more value to this thread. I know of no better spot on the web to get this kind of indepth info on Sony Service Codes for the home enthusiast.

Whichever way you go, please let us know what you think about your results.
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post #1868 of 2973 Old 08-02-2006, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by justsc View Post

How thick (or thin) is the black line you are seeing?

It is as thick as whatever bright image is being displayed.

To clarify, the streak of darker black is going across the screen horizontally in both directions of say, a small white cube being displayed in the center of a black screen, and the streak is as thick as the hieght of the cube.

It's also worth noting that I can see this even if I don't use a source and have the TV's white interface appear in the upper corner, to rule out faulty cables or sources.
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post #1869 of 2973 Old 08-02-2006, 02:54 PM
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I helped a friend calibrate his 30XS955, and wanted to tell everyone that his main menu settings, especially Picture, Brightness, and Color needed to be set at significantly different values than mine in order to achieve the same levels, which suggests a high degree of variation from set to set with some adjustments. His greyscale, however, was in the same ball park, but still a little different.

For those who are looking to use or compare the values of others, you might want to reconsider doing so.
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post #1870 of 2973 Old 08-02-2006, 03:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrGonk View Post

i have a quandry... should i spring for a $300 isf calibration or try these tweaks myself? my concern is not in the risks that come with fooling with the service menu, but if there are things that might impact my picture that i can't do by myself without a professional, and those things are significant, i'm just going to spring for a pro calibration.

can anybody lend me some insight as to how diy service menu tweaks, done correctly, compare to a proper isf job?

Just a few notes. Tweaks you do yourself can go well beyond the basic ISF Calibration, and take numerous hours. The one thing many cannot do themselves is set a proper grayscale. An ISF Calibrator will have a color analyzer to do this along with an HD signal generator to calibrate any of the inputs. A proper ISF calibration should yield the proper Grayscale for your calibrated inputs, adjustment of user controls for proper display (color, tint, black, white, detail etc.) with centering of many of the user controls at the proper calibration point and an explanation/training of how adjustments can be made to adjust for variations in mastering, broadcast, and lighting conditions.

A calibration can take four-hours or more, depending on the amount of work needed/desired. The ISF MSRP for two inputs is $350 prices may vary among calibrators.

The end result should yield a very watchable picture, adjusted for your system and viewing environment/conditions, one you can enjoy watching for quite some time. Depending on amount of use, grayscale should/could have an annual touch-up to adjust for phosphor wear variations to maintain optimal calibration.

Glen Carter
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www.ISFHT.com
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post #1871 of 2973 Old 08-02-2006, 06:41 PM
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Glen

I've been looking around my area for an ISF expert here in the Chicago suburbs. The main issue I have is small anomoly's in geometry. Now, since I have a CRT do you as an ISF calibrator believe that despite it being a CRT that in most cases you can improve it at least somewhat?

I'm trying to decide if it would be worth it for me. It's quite possible Im just being overly zealous in the whole geometry perfection thing. This happens to be something I carried with me from my time in the USMC. At times, I can admit to myself that I'm just being anal about perfection. But it's hard for me to decide in this case since I am not an AV industry professional.

For the most part my 20hs420 is used for the xbox360 and as a secondary home dvd theatre setup. I tend to use our LCD for movies however, so the xbox 360 is indeed the only real concern in terms of this sets calibration.

Thanks in advance


Quote:
Originally Posted by GlenC View Post

Just a few notes. Tweaks you do yourself can go well beyond the basic ISF Calibration, and take numerous hours. The one thing many cannot do themselves is set a proper grayscale. An ISF Calibrator will have a color analyzer to do this along with an HD signal generator to calibrate any of the inputs. A proper ISF calibration should yield the proper Grayscale for your calibrated inputs, adjustment of user controls for proper display (color, tint, black, white, detail etc.) with centering of many of the user controls at the proper calibration point and an explanation/training of how adjustments can be made to adjust for variations in mastering, broadcast, and lighting conditions.

A calibration can take four-hours or more, depending on the amount of work needed/desired. The ISF MSRP for two inputs is $350 prices may vary among calibrators.

The end result should yield a very watchable picture, adjusted for your system and viewing environment/conditions, one you can enjoy watching for quite some time. Depending on amount of use, grayscale should/could have an annual touch-up to adjust for phosphor wear variations to maintain optimal calibration.

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post #1872 of 2973 Old 08-02-2006, 08:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hudsonkm View Post

Glen

I've been looking around my area for an ISF expert here in the Chicago suburbs. The main issue I have is small anomoly's in geometry. Now, since I have a CRT do you as an ISF calibrator believe that despite it being a CRT that in most cases you can improve it at least somewhat?

I'm trying to decide if it would be worth it for me. It's quite possible Im just being overly zealous in the whole geometry perfection thing. This happens to be something I carried with me from my time in the USMC. At times, I can admit to myself that I'm just being anal about perfection. But it's hard for me to decide in this case since I am not an AV industry professional.

For the most part my 20hs420 is used for the xbox360 and as a secondary home dvd theatre setup. I tend to use our LCD for movies however, so the xbox 360 is indeed the only real concern in terms of this sets calibration.

Thanks in advance

Doc, I don't feel good, can you cure me? Fixing geometry on a CRT is an skilled art, full of compromise. Since it is all analog, absolute perfection just doesn't happen. It really depends on your specific issue. Problems with horizontal lines are generally a mechanical fix (service tech + magnets).

One thing to remember here is the purpose of the ISF was to optimize a given display to industry standards to enable you to see the picture as the director intended (common reference) with proper color, saturation, detail, yada yada, not to correct manufacturing errors and defects. There are many ISF calibrators that have the CRT background to provide additional or expanded service. My take on this situation is if there is a geometry issue, it probably existed from the beginning and should be corrected by the manufacturer under warranty. It is difficult, because the TV manufacturer makes no claims about perfect geometry or grayscale. They even boast about their dreadful edge enhancement features they design to boost sales to the unknowing public. Advanced geometry is not in the scope of ISF Calibrations, it is considered more of a repair (IMO).

There are so many things that can detract from viewing pleasure. This is one reason I never mention the silk-screen effect (SSE) to RP micro-display customers or point out dead pixels. Once you see them, you always see them, and it can ruin the experience.

Once the grayscale is correct and all other settings are calibrated, the picture on an Sony DA-4 display (main focus of this thread) is generally stunning, and it's easy to get wrapped-up in what you are watching, not seeing the flaws. Choosing to watch movies on an LCD TV, IMO, is a big compromise in its self..

I cannot say if I can fix geometry issues until I actually see the TV, then who knows.. In some cases, there could be a major magnetic interference in an area, creating external problems that cannot be fixed. There you would go with something other than CRT.

You are the only one to determine the value of the fix. I would say that if gaming is the primary use of the TV and you are focusing on geometry errors, you are not doing too well with game scores. Speed Bumps and bent lines are probably the two biggest issues for distractions for me (outside of SSE).

Glen Carter
Home Theater Calibration
www.ISFHT.com
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post #1873 of 2973 Old 08-02-2006, 09:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hudsonkm View Post

Glen

I've been looking around my area for an ISF expert here in the Chicago suburbs. The main issue I have is small anomoly's in geometry. Now, since I have a CRT do you as an ISF calibrator believe that despite it being a CRT that in most cases you can improve it at least somewhat?

I'm trying to decide if it would be worth it for me. It's quite possible Im just being overly zealous in the whole geometry perfection thing. This happens to be something I carried with me from my time in the USMC. At times, I can admit to myself that I'm just being anal about perfection. But it's hard for me to decide in this case since I am not an AV industry professional.

For the most part my 20hs420 is used for the xbox360 and as a secondary home dvd theatre setup. I tend to use our LCD for movies however, so the xbox 360 is indeed the only real concern in terms of this sets calibration.

Thanks in advance

Most major horizontal (vertical lines) geometry issues can be corrected or vastly improved via service menu adjustments (I think only the VCEN and VPIN parameters can significantly affect horizontal lines issues with these sets). It can take a lot of patience and tinkering, but it is worth the effort.

I just took delivery of new XBR960 on Saturday, and spent a good couple of hours with the geometry alone. You really have to tinker with various combinations of values for the different parameters. Getting close to perfection is very much an "art;" however, correcting major inaccuracies is relatively easy, and won't take much time or effort.
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post #1874 of 2973 Old 08-03-2006, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrGonk View Post

i have a quandry... should i spring for a $300 isf calibration or try these tweaks myself? my concern is not in the risks that come with fooling with the service menu, but if there are things that might impact my picture that i can't do by myself without a professional, and those things are significant, i'm just going to spring for a pro calibration.

As Glen says, the greyscale is by far the hardest thing to do. I know for sure that I have dramatically improved mine from the factory settings. How accurate I have gotten it is still unknown since I don't have access to a measuring device.

Quote:


can anybody lend me some insight as to how diy service menu tweaks, done correctly, compare to a proper isf job?

If done correctly, they should be virtually as good as an ISF job. The problem is there is no genuine way to know if the greyscale is "correct" without measuring it. I would think in virtually every case, it would still be at least a little bit off.

I think the problem is that there are few (if any) people who have thoroughly self-calibrated their sets using the information here, and then gone out and paid for an ISF calibration to "check" the accuracy of their work.
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post #1875 of 2973 Old 08-07-2006, 07:20 AM
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Does anyone have a defined process they follow for setting geometry in Widezoom screen mode?

The issue for me is that I can't find the right combination of settings between Dvd player and tv to emulate a 4:3 image to adjust widezoom geometry to. And which DVE slide to use for this?

my tv is 30HS420, and my player can send the image in: 'letterboxed', "pan & scan', or '16:9'. I've tried all 3 settings, and none seems to emulate an RF broadcast 4:3 signal *exacly*; because things are getting cropped diferently between my DVD input and RF.

All I really want to do is adjust the 2170D-1 and 2170D-2 groupings in the SM that are particualr to Widezoom (now that I've got the Full screenmode 16:9 set...), to optimize that picture so I've got ~5% overscan at the left and right edges; and something closer to 10% at the top and bottom (this is more watchable to me, less vertical 'squishing' of the 4:3 image, at the expense of lost top and bottom image to overscan...)

Also, in Widezoom, how should the geometry be set? If a uniform grid pattern is displayed, should I shoot for perfect squares (horix. and vert.) in the center, allowing some distortion outward, toward the edges? What's the concept, rule of thumb here? I know that there's some 'Sony Magic' going on with this mode, in converting a 4:3 to a 16:9 display; I just want to know what the thought process is behind it so I can work *with* this concept when adjusting geometry, instead of against it...

Any help would be appreciated....

Thanks.

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post #1876 of 2973 Old 08-07-2006, 08:54 AM
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Just purchased a Sony KD-27FS170 - is there a service code that will rotate the display? Display is tilted a few degrees counter-clockwise. Is there any way for me to correct this or should I take it back and try another set?
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post #1877 of 2973 Old 08-07-2006, 09:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acey View Post

Just purchased a Sony KD-27FS170 - is there a service code that will rotate the display? Display is tilted a few degrees counter-clockwise. Is there any way for me to correct this or should I take it back and try another set?

I'm pretty sure there is a tilt adjustment for this set in the regular menu.
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post #1878 of 2973 Old 08-07-2006, 07:55 PM
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My problem is that the picture is wider than what it's displaying, cutting off the edges of the picture.

I got into the service menu and was browsing around, and I need to know: How do you change the width of the picture to fit the screen?
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post #1879 of 2973 Old 08-07-2006, 08:20 PM
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Found some settings, the edges on the sides are kinda wavy, but this board has been awesome for helping me figure this stuff out!! You guys rock!
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post #1880 of 2973 Old 08-07-2006, 09:23 PM
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Originally Posted by djserrin View Post

My problem is that the picture is wider than what it's displaying, cutting off the edges of the picture.

I got into the service menu and was browsing around, and I need to know: How do you change the width of the picture to fit the screen?

2170D-2: HSIZ
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post #1881 of 2973 Old 08-08-2006, 11:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acey View Post

Just purchased a Sony KD-27FS170 - is there a service code that will rotate the display? Display is tilted a few degrees counter-clockwise. Is there any way for me to correct this or should I take it back and try another set?

I believe RWetmore is correct, a user menu adjustment for tilt should be available for your set.
However if not, you should find an adjustment in the Service menu in
2170D-1 #8 NSC0
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post #1882 of 2973 Old 08-08-2006, 12:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjmilo View Post

I believe RWetmore is correct, a user menu adjustment for tilt should be available for your set.
However if not, you should find an adjustment in the Service menu in
2170D-1 #8 NSC0

I don't believe it is available for the new 27" model. It is available on the 32" and 36" models but not for this one.

If there's a SM adjustment for this I have yet to identify it.
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post #1883 of 2973 Old 08-09-2006, 08:30 AM
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Does anyone know which setting, if any, can be used to fix this problem:

There is a slight uneven stretching of the image horizontally. Example: I put up a menu that has two columns on the left and right, evenly spaced from center. The columns display the exact same lines of text. After noticing that something didn't look right, I actually sat there with a measuring tape and measured a line of text on the left and right column (exact same text). I found that the text on the left hand side measured about 7", and the text on the right only 6.5". Also, the text on the left is a bit more blurry. I double checked this by putting up a grid pattern and sure enough the squares on the left are longer, horizontally.

I tried playing with some of the focus adjustments (QPAM etc), and also adjusting some of the H-settings (HPOS, HSIZ) etc, and really didn't help it much, though the H settings were able to help a little.

Is there another adjustment that I am missing that could fix this issue?

This is on a 34" XBR 970 by the way (no super fine pitch for me! Stop discontinuing your best TV's Sony!)


By the way KenTech and everyone THANK you for this awesome thread. I didn't even know until very recently that there WERE hidden service menus in these TV's. My XBR had pretty bad geometry issues right out of the box, most of which were easily identifiable and fixable, thanks to my lucking out and finding this thread. As many others here have, I have been able to GREATLY improve the PQ of my set, without ever having messed with this kind of thing before, just by following tips posted here.

Oh and KenTech, your RYB-GYB etc. settings (13-15-6-4) worked PERFECTLY for me as well... my TV had WAY too much red push going on and now it looks pretty darn near perfect.
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post #1884 of 2973 Old 08-09-2006, 09:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bast525 View Post

Does anyone know which setting, if any, can be used to fix this problem:

There is a slight uneven stretching of the image horizontally. Example: I put up a menu that has two columns on the left and right, evenly spaced from center. The columns display the exact same lines of text. After noticing that something didn't look right, I actually sat there with a measuring tape and measured a line of text on the left and right column (exact same text). I found that the text on the left hand side measured about 7", and the text on the right only 6.5". Also, the text on the left is a bit more blurry. I double checked this by putting up a grid pattern and sure enough the squares on the left are longer, horizontally.

I tried playing with some of the focus adjustments (QPAM etc), and also adjusting some of the H-settings (HPOS, HSIZ) etc, and really didn't help it much, though the H settings were able to help a little.

Is there another adjustment that I am missing that could fix this issue?

Yes, there are adjustments for this. Off the top of my head, I forget what they are. Maybe SLIN...someone will know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bast525 View Post

Oh and KenTech, your RYB-GYB etc. settings (13-15-6-4) worked PERFECTLY for me as well... my TV had WAY too much red push going on and now it looks pretty darn near perfect.

I haven't tried 13, 15, 6, 4 yet, but I will. I settled on 14, 14, 5, 3, but there is still seems to be a little red push.
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post #1885 of 2973 Old 08-09-2006, 09:48 AM
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yeah the red is still maybe a tad strong in my case as well and I may turn the 13 up to 14. Still a major improvement from what it was! (8-9-9-6 were the factory settings... blech!)



Oh and I don't think it's SLIN as I know I tried fiddling with that one as well, I think that one adjusts the stretch of the outter maybe 2/3 of the picture relative to the center 1/3. But it adjusts both sides equally. If I remember correctly that is what it does, unfortunately I'm at work so not in front of my set so I may be wrong but I know I tried SLIN to no avail.
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post #1886 of 2973 Old 08-09-2006, 10:40 AM
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Also, when I throw up the test grid (white lines on black background) I seem to be having horizontal convergences issue on the upper left corner, where the upper most couple rows of horizontal lines, you can see the red element kind of drooping and curving below the 'true' line as it gets closer to the left most edge. I did adjust many of the convergence settings in the SM but they all seem to affect vertical convergence, not horizontal, as far as I can tell.

I have seen this issue on another Sony HDTV Wega I saw at Circuit City, non wide screen just regular 4:3 HDTV, had the exact same issue. I'm guessing there is no fix for this in the SM?
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post #1887 of 2973 Old 08-09-2006, 10:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by corlay View Post

The issue for me is that I can't find the right combination of settings between Dvd player and tv to emulate a 4:3 image to adjust widezoom geometry to. And which DVE slide to use for this?

my tv is 30HS420, and my player can send the image in: 'letterboxed', "pan & scan', or '16:9'. I've tried all 3 settings, and none seems to emulate an RF broadcast 4:3 signal *exacly*; because things are getting cropped diferently between my DVD input and RF.

All I really want to do is adjust the 2170D-1 and 2170D-2 groupings in the SM that are particualr to Widezoom (now that I've got the Full screenmode 16:9 set...), to optimize that picture so I've got ~5% overscan at the left and right edges; and something closer to 10% at the top and bottom (this is more watchable to me, less vertical 'squishing' of the 4:3 image, at the expense of lost top and bottom image to overscan...)

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My problem is that the picture is wider than what it's displaying, cutting off the edges of the picture.

I got into the service menu and was browsing around, and I need to know: How do you change the width of the picture to fit the screen?

HSIZ, as RWetmore has said. But I thought I'd mention: Where there are some vertical scaling adjustments for different video modes, the horizintal one is global. For example, there is no way to adjust one of the Zoom modes in width without disturbing the normal width setting.

I wanted to do this so 4:3 broadcast on HD could be proportioned to fit my big 4:3 screen if I choose the Zoom mode. But I regret that this seems not possible. (Love to be proved wrong!) My set doesn't have a WideZoom mode, so if there is are specific settings for that, I can't confirm it.

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post #1888 of 2973 Old 08-09-2006, 11:17 AM - Thread Starter
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There is a slight uneven stretching of the image horizontally. Example: I put up a menu that has two columns on the left and right, evenly spaced from center. The columns display the exact same lines of text. After noticing that something didn't look right, I actually sat there with a measuring tape and measured a line of text on the left and right column (exact same text). I found that the text on the left hand side measured about 7", and the text on the right only 6.5". Also, the text on the left is a bit more blurry. I double checked this by putting up a grid pattern and sure enough the squares on the left are longer, horizontally. Is there another adjustment that I am missing that could fix this issue?

That's very interesting! No one has brought this up before, and I note that there doesn't seem to be a code like "HLIN" that might fix this. I presume you have downloaded the relevant manual pages from here. None of my charts even mention horizontal linearity.

The horizintal-deflection current is very strong and operates at high frequencies. The usual solution with analog sets was to include somewhere in the circuit to the deflection coils a robust inductor with a magnetized core that you could adjust with a screwdriver.

On the DZ circuit board, the inductor L5005 is identified as "HLC," which to me translates as "horizintal-linearity coil." There is no indication in the circuit diagram that it adjustable, and you'd have to open the set to try it -- not recommended. I would make a service claim against this complaint and get a tech to come to your home and fix it. That much nonlinearity seems unacceptable to me!
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Oh and KenTech, your RYB-GYB etc. settings (13-15-6-4) worked PERFECTLY for me as well... my TV had WAY too much red push going on and now it looks pretty darn near perfect.

Lately I have settled on 14-14-6-4 for Default. Remember that you can set "Monitor" differently (I tried 13-15-6-4), and switch between them while watching. I have done that, but I keep coming back to 14-14-6-4 as an excellent compromise for DVDs and broadcast. YMMV, of course.

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post #1889 of 2973 Old 08-09-2006, 11:24 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by bast525 View Post

Also, when I throw up the test grid (white lines on black background) I seem to be having horizontal convergences issue on the upper left corner, where the upper most couple rows of horizontal lines, you can see the red element kind of drooping and curving below the 'true' line as it gets closer to the left most edge.

Just to make sure we've got the terminology straight: The vertical displacement of color on horizintal white lines is called vertical convergence -- fixed with permanent magnets stuck on the backside of the CRT and hard to fiddle with, plus rotating magnets on the neck of the CRT. The "other" convergence (vertical lines have color fringes) is horizontal convergence, and there are elaborate service-mode adjustments for this in the D-CONV. See those manual pages referenced above in #1889 for decent documentation.

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post #1890 of 2973 Old 08-09-2006, 12:00 PM
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That's very interesting! No one has brought this up before, and I note that there doesn't seem to be a code like "HLIN" that might fix this. I presume you have downloaded the relevant manual pages from None of my charts even mention horizontal linearity.

The horizintal-deflection current is very strong and operates at high frequencies. The usual solution with analog sets was to include somewhere in the circuit to the deflection coils a robust inductor with a magnetized core that you could adjust with a screwdriver.

On the DZ circuit board, the inductor L5005 is identified as "HLC," which to me translates as "horizintal-linearity coil." There is no indication in the circuit diagram that it adjustable, and you'd have to open the set to try it -- not recommended. I would make a service claim against this complaint and get a tech to come to your home and fix it. That much nonlinearity seems unacceptable to me!Lately I have settled on 14-14-6-4 for Default. Remember that you can set "Monitor" differently (I tried 13-15-6-4), and switch between them while watching. I have done that, but I keep coming back to 14-14-6-4 as an excellent compromise for DVDs and broadcast. YMMV, of course.


As far as the horizontal linearity, as far as I can tell there is nothing listed anywhere that directly, specifically points to this issue. Of course, until just this moment, I didn't know that that was the term for what I was seeing! At any rate, I have only had the TV a little over a week... I really wasn't enjoying the idea of having a tech come out to my house so soon but I may have to do just that.

About the color settings, I think I saw the same thing you are seeing, as I mentioned above, I had tried 14 instead of 13 for the first setting and found it a little better, but reverted back to 13 for the time being. I will try 14-14 when I get home instead of 13 or 14-15. A great side effect of this change in the SM settings, IMO, was that I was able to adjust the color slider in the regular user adjustments back to 50, whereas before I had turned it down a bit to try to lessen that way-too-overbearing red.

Thank you for the clarifications on terminology... this is all still kind of new to me. I've always been good at spotting problems with TV PQ issues, but until very recently never knew the terms for any of them.

So yeah, I'm having issues with vertical convergence in the upper left corner of the screen. I guess I'll deal with it as it's not easily spottable unless looking at the test grid and then it's only in that corner. But if I have a tech come out to look at this other problem with the horizontal linearity, is that something they would also be obliged to look at or fix under warranty?

And last question, is there a difference in what we are talking about with this linearity, as far as, one side seeming more horizontally stretched than the other one, and how you would describe increased stretching as you get away from center on BOTH sides? Example: the squares on a test grid in the very center of the screen might measure .5" across, then as you go towards EITHER edge of the TV, the width of the squares slowly increases (let's just say they increase evenly in either direction for this example). Is that a different term/problem? Is that something fixable with a SM setting?
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