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post #2431 of 2962 Old 04-07-2007, 07:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Nitewatchman View Post

I think that's one of the QM "Info" screens, if I recall correctly. If so, You can easily accidently write the value which leaves one of those screens up(or from the QM PATN section) without knowing you did so. But, thankfully it's just as easy to Write QM/#0 - info to "0" (the "#0 -info" screens have values of 1~7 or more, 0 turns them off) and get it off there. See here for more detailed info(except substitute QM "#0 - Info" where he says #1-PATN) :

God bless you. That was exactly it. I really, really appreciate you helping me with this. I think I set off some other stuff that I'll have to fix tomorrow but at least it's watchable now. Thank you again, I appreciate it.
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post #2432 of 2962 Old 04-12-2007, 03:08 PM
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I have yet another question about overscan. I know adjusting vpos and hpos can negatively effect geometry... but does vsiz and hsiz also effect geometry? I know your suppose to adjust them both the same. Like if you take vsiz down two clicks your suppose to do the same with hsiz. thanks
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post #2433 of 2962 Old 04-18-2007, 12:16 AM
 
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Originally Posted by fullmetal22 View Post

I have yet another question about overscan. I know adjusting vpos and hpos can negatively effect geometry... but does vsiz and hsiz also effect geometry? I know your suppose to adjust them both the same. Like if you take vsiz down two clicks your suppose to do the same with hsiz. thanks

Absolutely. If you screw with the VSIZ, you need to adjust HSIZ as well. If you are trying to fix a problem like everyones head looks fat or too tall, then you adjust them seperately. If you are just trying to get rid of underscan or overscan, then adjust both together like if you adjust VSIZ from 24 to 34, then adjust the HSIZ up 10 points. There is a disclaimer though. Due to the flat tube design, the picture at the extreme left and right does tend to stretch and will give you false readings on your adjustments. To get the best results when adjusting V and HSIZ is to have a circle pattern in the center of the screen where there is the least amount of stretching or warping to make sure that the picture is sized correctly. I recommend using the THX optimizer if you don't already have a test pattern DVD. The optimizer can be found on some DVDs. Pearl Harbor has it for sure, but it's not the only movie that does.
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post #2434 of 2962 Old 04-18-2007, 12:23 AM
 
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I now have a question that perhaps someone can answer. I have a Sony 970. I have just discovered that on any source at 480i, my blacks and gray tones have a heavy greenish tint to them. However on 480p, 720p, and 1080i, the halftones are all normal. I checked this out with the tv's self genertated gray scale test patterns in the tech rep mode and sure enough, 1080i, 720p, and 480p were all normal except for 480i. The 480i gray scale has a strong presence of green. I was wondering if there is possibly a gamma or RGB gun adjustment for each resolution in the tech rep mode.
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post #2435 of 2962 Old 04-18-2007, 06:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fullmetal22 View Post

I have yet another question about overscan. I know adjusting vpos and hpos can negatively effect geometry... but does vsiz and hsiz also effect geometry? I know your suppose to adjust them both the same. Like if you take vsiz down two clicks your suppose to do the same with hsiz. thanks

I don't understand how this perspective came to be "gospel", that the very service menu controls provided by Sony to adjust overscan/geometry are somehow NOT to be used to control overscan/geometry without fear of doing some terrible harm! I believe it is simply a matter of doing the adjustments carefully and appropriately, using all of the available and appropriate service menu items...and you will end up with perfection (at least to your eyes, since this whole process is at least somewhat subjective, not to mention a function of each individual set and whether or not you've also had some Sony service technician magnet work done on your set's picture tube and how well that effort turned out... remembering that this is an ANALOG device with a rectangular flat picture tube and its resulting inherent imperfections).

For newcomers to this thread who haven't read every post, I suggest looking at my earlier post which provides a colorized Excel spreadsheet showing my USER MENU settings in rows 1-74 and SERVICE MENU settings in rows 75-later, for my 34XBR960.

Your mileage may vary, but what's obvious from my settings shown in this spreadsheet is that I have used ALL of the available adjustments to obtain rectangular perfection (to my eyes, as best as can be obtained with my particular 34XBR960 and the results of my Sony service technician picture tube magnet job).

And the blow-by-blow of how I used all available controls in 2170D-1, 2170D-2, and MID3, along with an overscan test pattern (if you can connect your PC to your Sony set) if you don't have DVE or AVIA, is described in this post. Just be sure to follow the imbedded backward links in that post, to get all editorializing and specifics.

Bottom line: I learned about ALL of the available service menu adjustments for geometry/overscan from KenTech's wonderful treatises that started this thread. And this pretty much boiled down to a handful of controls in 2170D-1, 2170D-2, and MID3 (at least for the 720p/1080i inputs, since I watch just about 100% HDTV-only on my set, from OTA or cable/DVR). I'm not as concerned with 480i (and honestly not even with 480p, since I very very rarely watch DVDs) although I do sometimes watch 480i from D* via S-video on my set.

Early on in this thread I never saw any warnings about NOT using MID3 to complete the geometry/overscan adjustments started in 2170D-1 and 2170D-2, and I have never been able complete those adjustments without using MID3. Somehow, these "warnings" came to life only fairly recently, but (not to be flippant) I have disregarded them. All the controls are required to adjust the background and foreground components which produce the resulting image onscreen, and in my opinion they must all be used.
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post #2436 of 2962 Old 04-18-2007, 06:24 PM
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I am new to this but would like to move the overall picture up and to the left for every input and setting. Will changing HPOS and VPOS in 2170D-1, 2170D-2 do it? Should I just adjust the vertical adjustment in the user menu and horizontal in the SM? I am trying to keep this as easy as possible for myself. I have read through this thread and I am confused if I also need to adjust HNCT and/or settings in MID2/3? any help would be greatly appreciated.
thanks
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post #2437 of 2962 Old 04-18-2007, 07:15 PM
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Originally Posted by midnite2 View Post

I am new to this but would like to move the overall picture up and to the left for every input and setting. Will changing HPOS and VPOS in 2170D-1, 2170D-2 do it? Should I just adjust the vertical adjustment in the user menu and horizontal in the SM? I am trying to keep this as easy as possible for myself. I have read through this thread and I am confused if I also need to adjust HNCT and/or settings in MID2/3? any help would be greatly appreciated.
thanks

(1) Whatever you decide to try and change (to see what happens, and to decide for yourself whether or not your problem is completely resolved to your satisfaction), be sure and write down all of the current values for these settings before you change anything. That way you can always put things back the way they were before you started fooling around.

(2) You MUST have a stationary test pattern to use for your controlled primary adjustments, provided either by a calibration DVD (e.g. Digital Video Essentials). Don't think you can accomplish anything good with a "live" and moving picture from real content.

(3) Personally, in my 34XBR960 case all of the vertical adjustments in the user menu are unaltered from their 0 position (as they came from the factory). I used only the service menu to move things around.

(4) I believe that the horizontal and vertical size and position controls in the service menu are "global", in that you don't have to go to every input uniquely and accept every HD resolution on the HD inputs uniquely in order to set the geometry/overscan for the set. I believe what you set becomes effective for all inputs. This can be seen by my spreadsheet since adjustments were done only using one input and resolution and yet all of those same setting values seem to have gotten propagated to all inputs and resolutions columns.

(5) In 2170D-1 I used 0 (VPOS vertical position) and 1 (VSIZ vertical size) to adjust the "background" vertically. In 2170D-2 I used only 1 (HPOS horizontal position) and 2 (HSIZ horizontal size) to adjust the "background" horizontally. In MID3 I used 0 (VDHP horizontal position), 1 (VDHS horizontal size), 2 (VDVE vertical position) and 3 (VDVS vertical size) to manipulate the "foreground image" on top of the "background".

(6) Your description of a desire to move your picture "up and to the left" (though you haven't added what input or resolution you're looking at) has a vertical and horizontal component to it, so you will probably need to use all of the vertical and horizontal controls... in the service menu, not user menu. Just be sure you have all of your initial values written down first. And be sure and adjust ONE CLICK AT A TIME, to see what happens onscreen. Did that do the trick, or do you need ONE MORE CLICK? Slow and steady, go back and forth, better or worse, etc.

(7) Also, inevitably you have to return to an item you've already adjusted and moved on because you thought that one was finished, just to see whether your initial setting is still ok or perhaps has been affected by some other later adjustment somewhere else. It will be easy to test whether it's still good or bad by just ONE CLICK up/down or left/right, to view the effect and decide whether you should leave things as they are or go with the new setting or reverse directions or whatever. Slow and steady.

(8) Write your adjusted values down as you settle on them.

(9) Horizontal and vertical SIZE adjustments allow you to manipulate "overscan", and I'm sure that you'll want to look at that as well. With a proper stationary test pattern (cross-hatched, with grid marks that show percentages) you will be able to work on this as well. It'll be easy to see how much of the pattern's perimeter edges has been "cropped out" by the overscan settings, and then how much you can bring cleanly back in (without introducing edge anomalies or video noise) by your adjustments.

(10) Again... write everything down when you start, before you change any particular value. And then write your ending/adjusted values down as well. If you want you can certainly use my spreadsheet as a starting point for your own reference, but I can't promise that the XBR960 and XS955 service menu items and default values are the same. However you can obviously modify your copy of my spreadsheet as needed.

And do your experimenting and adjustment ONE CLICK AT A TIME, observing what happens on the screen... better or worse.


Good luck.
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post #2438 of 2962 Old 04-18-2007, 10:00 PM
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Hey everyone:

Ok, I have been reading this forum for a couple days, and am getting a headache. Information overload. I don't mind going into the SM, but I was wondering if anyone has a list of settings for the 36xs955? I realize each tv is different, but I figure if I had a complete list, I could write down my current settings, change them all to the settings of someone who has had success with the same set, then fine tune for my specific tv. It would save me a great deal of time and aggravation. I currently have the above mentioned tv, Yamaha 661 receiver, directv HR20-100 DVR, Oppo 981 DVD, and a nice VCR that i rarely use and could care less about. I have my DVR and DVD hooked up to the receiver via HDMI, and the receiver to the TV via HDMI. The VCR is hooked up via component. My biggest concerns are the clearest HD and SD signals possible (with more emphasis on HD), as well as the problem this Sony seems to have with compressing HD images, i.e. when watching HD the tv seems to compress it into a narrow horizontal strip....almost like compressing the normal letterbox image twice. I use the verical expand to see more image, but even that does not seem to expand it as far as it should (when I bought the set, I was told it would give a 33" HD letterbox picture,,,,it is nowhere near that). I don't know if anything can be done about the HD compression, but any help would be greatly appreciated, as well as the starting points in the SM. I know all of you have spent a great deal of time learning this stuff, and I plan to do so as well, but right now I need something to give me a better picture before I lose my mind. Thanks in advance.

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post #2439 of 2962 Old 04-19-2007, 05:48 AM
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Originally Posted by DSperber View Post

(1) Whatever you decide to try and change (to see what happens, and to decide for yourself whether or not your problem is completely resolved to your satisfaction), be sure and write down all of the current values for these settings before you change anything. That way you can always put things back the way they were before you started fooling around.

(2) You MUST have a stationary test pattern to use for your controlled primary adjustments, provided either by a calibration DVD (e.g. Digital Video Essentials). Don't think you can accomplish anything good with a "live" and moving picture from real content.

(3) Personally, in my 34XBR960 case all of the vertical adjustments in the user menu are unaltered from their 0 position (as they came from the factory). I used only the service menu to move things around.

(4) I believe that the horizontal and vertical size and position controls in the service menu are "global", in that you don't have to go to every input uniquely and accept every HD resolution on the HD inputs uniquely in order to set the geometry/overscan for the set. I believe what you set becomes effective for all inputs. This can be seen by my spreadsheet since adjustments were done only using one input and resolution and yet all of those same setting values seem to have gotten propagated to all inputs and resolutions columns.

(5) In 2170D-1 I used 0 (VPOS vertical position) and 1 (VSIZ vertical size) to adjust the "background" vertically. In 2170D-2 I used only 1 (HPOS horizontal position) and 2 (HSIZ horizontal size) to adjust the "background" horizontally. In MID3 I used 0 (VDHP horizontal position), 1 (VDHS horizontal size), 2 (VDVE vertical position) and 3 (VDVS vertical size) to manipulate the "foreground image" on top of the "background".

(6) Your description of a desire to move your picture "up and to the left" (though you haven't added what input or resolution you're looking at) has a vertical and horizontal component to it, so you will probably need to use all of the vertical and horizontal controls... in the service menu, not user menu. Just be sure you have all of your initial values written down first. And be sure and adjust ONE CLICK AT A TIME, to see what happens onscreen. Did that do the trick, or do you need ONE MORE CLICK? Slow and steady, go back and forth, better or worse, etc.

(7) Also, inevitably you have to return to an item you've already adjusted and moved on because you thought that one was finished, just to see whether your initial setting is still ok or perhaps has been affected by some other later adjustment somewhere else. It will be easy to test whether it's still good or bad by just ONE CLICK up/down or left/right, to view the effect and decide whether you should leave things as they are or go with the new setting or reverse directions or whatever. Slow and steady.

(8) Write your adjusted values down as you settle on them.

(9) Horizontal and vertical SIZE adjustments allow you to manipulate "overscan", and I'm sure that you'll want to look at that as well. With a proper stationary test pattern (cross-hatched, with grid marks that show percentages) you will be able to work on this as well. It'll be easy to see how much of the pattern's perimeter edges has been "cropped out" by the overscan settings, and then how much you can bring cleanly back in (without introducing edge anomalies or video noise) by your adjustments.

(10) Again... write everything down when you start, before you change any particular value. And then write your ending/adjusted values down as well. If you want you can certainly use my spreadsheet as a starting point for your own reference, but I can't promise that the XBR960 and XS955 service menu items and default values are the same. However you can obviously modify your copy of my spreadsheet as needed.

And do your experimenting and adjustment ONE CLICK AT A TIME, observing what happens on the screen... better or worse.


Good luck.

DSperber, thanks for your detailed response. This forum is a wonderful resource. Currently I am using and HD cable box hooked through component and a sony dvd player through HDMI. I have used the Avia DVD images to test the DVD player through HDMI and some pictures through component/cable box. Both are upscaling to 1080i. So I guess I have not tested other resolutions other than 1080i. both inputs seem to be off about the same, a little to the right and a little down. I think 2-3 clicks to the left and 2-3 clicks up would fix it. Right now I am not going to mess with VSIZ and HSIZ. I am confused with why I also need to make these changes in MID3 too. Just changing HPOS and VPOS in 2170D-1/2 would not do it? I do not seem to have the MID3 adjustments you have mentioned in MID3 or any MID. I have also noticed when reading the manual it states something about adjusting AGNG and HBLK when doing these adjustments. Do I need to adjust these too even if I am only adjusting HPOS and VPOS not VSIZ/HSIZ? Thanks
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post #2440 of 2962 Old 04-19-2007, 06:37 AM
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Originally Posted by midnite2 View Post

both inputs seem to be off about the same, a little to the right and a little down. I think 2-3 clicks to the left and 2-3 clicks up would fix it. Right now I am not going to mess with VSIZ and HSIZ.

If you get what you want, then that's all you need to touch.


Quote:


I am confused with why I also need to make these changes in MID3 too. Just changing HPOS and VPOS in 2170D-1/2 would not do it?

A picture's worth a thousand words. Just write down what you start from and you can always go back to that if you think you ended up worse.

Think Photoshop. 2170D-1/2 affects H/V size/position of the background (i.e. "canvas"), on top of which MID3 affects H/V size/position of the foreground layers (i.e. "image") which can be resized and moved around independently of the background (canvas) on which it is overlayed. It may seem overly complex, but there really are two components (background and foreground) to how Sony's implemented the display and its adjustments. And you can adjust both components independently.

But the best way for you to see this is to actually play with it. Start off with 2170D-1/2 and do the clicks you think are appropriate. Watch the test pattern on the screen as you do this. Then, try each of the four controls in MID3 and see what happens to the edges of the test pattern. You will see more or less of that pattern as you touch those four MID3 controls, and it will now be apparent to you just what you're adjusting with MID3 that's different from what you did with 2170D-1/2. Personally, I believe proper adjustment includes MID3 tweaks, but YMMV.


Quote:


If I do need to makes changes in MID3 should I do those before or after I make changes to 2170D-1/2?

I'd say start with 2170D-1/2, and then go to MID3. But I'm sure you'll then come back to 2170D-1/2 to see what happens if you now add or subtract one more click there... and then go back to MID3, etc., until you've finally got "perfection" to your eyes.


Quote:


I have also noticed when reading the manual it states something about adjusting AGNG and HBLK when doing these adjustments. Do I need to adjust these too even if I am only adjusting HPOS and VPOS not VSIZ/HSIZ?

Well I do believe that is the proper technique according to some very skilled people who've contributed to this thread. But in my own personal case I didn't touch those (I actually didn't know about them at the time I did my tweaks) and I really don't know that it made any difference. I was still able to get my overscan to where I wanted it even without temporarily uncovering the edges of the screen through those controls. However I do believe you're right, those controls should be used... at least when working on overscan.
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post #2441 of 2962 Old 04-19-2007, 06:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DSperber View Post

If you get what you want, then that's all you need to touch.


A picture's worth a thousand words. Just write down what you start from and you can always go back to that if you think you ended up worse.

Think Photoshop. 2170D-1/2 affects H/V size/position of the background (i.e. "canvas"), on top of which MID3 affects H/V size/position of the foreground layers (i.e. "image") which can be resized and moved around independently of the background (canvas) on which it is overlayed. It may seem overly complex, but there really are two components (background and foreground) to how Sony's implemented the display and its adjustments. And you can adjust both components independently.

But the best way for you to see this is to actually play with it. Start off with 2170D-1/2 and do the clicks you think are appropriate. Watch the test pattern on the screen as you do this. Then, try each of the four controls in MID3 and see what happens to the edges of the test pattern. You will see more or less of that pattern as you touch those four MID3 controls, and it will now be apparent to you just what you're adjusting with MID3 that's different from what you did with 2170D-1/2. Personally, I believe proper adjustment includes MID3 tweaks, but YMMV.


I'd say start with 2170D-1/2, and then go to MID3. But I'm sure you'll then come back to 2170D-1/2 to see what happens if you now add or subtract one more click there... and then go back to MID3, etc., until you've finally got "perfection" to your eyes.


Well I do believe that is the proper technique according to some very skilled people who've contributed to this thread. But in my own personal case I didn't touch those (I actually didn't know about them at the time I did my tweaks) and I really don't know that it made any difference. I was still able to get my overscan to where I wanted it even without temporarily uncovering the edges of the screen through those controls. However I do believe you're right, those controls should be used... at least when working on overscan.

DSperber, thanks again. I believe I was editing my post when you responded to me. I do not seem to have the MID3 adjustments you mention. I have looked at the service manual and do not see them anywhere, is that possible? Another question I have is, will changing the settings in 2170D-1/2 only work for the resolution I am using globally? Should I mess with HCNT? What is the difference with adjusting HPOS compared to HCNT? Some people seem to recommend adjusting HCNT while others HPOS? Hopefully this is the last of my questions. I really appreciate your time in responding.
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post #2442 of 2962 Old 04-19-2007, 03:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by midnite2 View Post

I do not seem to have the MID3 adjustments you mention. I have looked at the service manual and do not see them anywhere, is that possible?

I have a 34XBR960, and that's all I'm familiar with firsthand I'm afraid. My spreadsheet thus is specifically for a 34XBR960 of my firmware level.

Only someone else with a 34XS955 can really answer your question.

However I have worked on my cousin's older XBR800 which also did not have MID3, and instead there were similar (but differently named) controls in MID1 which seemed to be relevant. His MID1 did not match the MID1 of the XBR960 list. However as I recall there was something different about the whole approach for that set and either I actually didn't need to adjust MID1 or it didn't accomplish what I wanted or something. Can't recall. I think for his set the 2170D-1/2 adjustments were all I had to work with but ended up sufficient to do the job, without MID1 or MID3.

Anyway, I really can only speak for the XBR960, not the XS955.


Quote:


Another question I have is, will changing the settings in 2170D-1/2 only work for the resolution I am using globally?

As my spreadsheet shows, I only adjusted in these two groups at one input/resolution, and yet the adjusted values appear to have been propagated to all inputs/resolutions.

I'd say the adjustments are "global".


Quote:


Should I mess with HCNT? What is the difference with adjusting HPOS compared to HCNT? Some people seem to recommend adjusting HCNT while others HPOS?

My spreadsheet shows both values at 32(31), meaning the value has been tweaked from the official service menu default. As to whether I did that, or Sony factory did it and I got it that way... I don't remember.

But just try it for yourself and see what happens. These are all controls which apparently have some effect on the result, else why are they there? You can always put it back if it doesn't look improved, as long as you wrote down and know what value you started from.

I'm sure there will be other controls you'll begin to fool with, to perhaps try and address issues of convergence, linearity, curvature, bowing, etc. And since your set is different from my set, and I've had a Sony tech do magnet work on my picture tube, it's guaranteed that my other significant adjustments in 2170D-1/2 and D-CONV will NOT be directly transferrable to your set (not to mention that I have an XBR960 and you have an XS955). And yet, you're free to experiment with these yourself if you have other imperfections you'd like to try and address (using your test pattern, of course).
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post #2443 of 2962 Old 04-19-2007, 07:22 PM
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<<waiting patiently for a response to my earlier post.

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post #2444 of 2962 Old 04-20-2007, 07:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DSperber View Post

I have a 34XBR960, and that's all I'm familiar with firsthand I'm afraid. My spreadsheet thus is specifically for a 34XBR960 of my firmware level.

Only someone else with a 34XS955 can really answer your question.

However I have worked on my cousin's older XBR800 which also did not have MID3, and instead there were similar (but differently named) controls in MID1 which seemed to be relevant. His MID1 did not match the MID1 of the XBR960 list. However as I recall there was something different about the whole approach for that set and either I actually didn't need to adjust MID1 or it didn't accomplish what I wanted or something. Can't recall. I think for his set the 2170D-1/2 adjustments were all I had to work with but ended up sufficient to do the job, without MID1 or MID3.

Anyway, I really can only speak for the XBR960, not the XS955.


As my spreadsheet shows, I only adjusted in these two groups at one input/resolution, and yet the adjusted values appear to have been propagated to all inputs/resolutions.

I'd say the adjustments are "global".


My spreadsheet shows both values at 32(31), meaning the value has been tweaked from the official service menu default. As to whether I did that, or Sony factory did it and I got it that way... I don't remember.

But just try it for yourself and see what happens. These are all controls which apparently have some effect on the result, else why are they there? You can always put it back if it doesn't look improved, as long as you wrote down and know what value you started from.

I'm sure there will be other controls you'll begin to fool with, to perhaps try and address issues of convergence, linearity, curvature, bowing, etc. And since your set is different from my set, and I've had a Sony tech do magnet work on my picture tube, it's guaranteed that my other significant adjustments in 2170D-1/2 and D-CONV will NOT be directly transferrable to your set (not to mention that I have an XBR960 and you have an XS955). And yet, you're free to experiment with these yourself if you have other imperfections you'd like to try and address (using your test pattern, of course).

DSperber, thanks for your responses. I made adjustments to HPOS and VPOS in 2170D-1/2 last night and all seems well. I am now going to try tinkering with overscan this weekend and try to find the MID settings for these adjustments. I really appreciate your thorough responses. I have learned a great deal in the last two days.
thanks
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post #2445 of 2962 Old 04-20-2007, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by midnite2 View Post

DSperber, thanks for your responses. I made adjustments to HPOS and VPOS in 2170D-1/2 last night and all seems well. I am now going to try tinkering with overscan this weekend and try to find the MID settings for these adjustments. I really appreciate your thorough responses. I have learned a great deal in the last two days.
thanks

If I'm not mistaken, the 955 is the more accurate predecessor to the 970, which I own. On my set, MID position and size adjustments are not completely exclusive to all inputs and screen modes. I have noticed that my component inputs (4 & 5) share MID position settings within a particular screen mode (eg. Full). I'm not sure if this is the case with all the Sony sets or not. I thought everything was independent at first, until I started going crazy switching between the Wii and PS2 using input 4 and 5, respectively. Just something to think about before you start tinkering.
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post #2446 of 2962 Old 04-20-2007, 02:59 PM
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Somewhere in this forum I came across someone asking how to fix this problem(see attachment), and now can't find the post. (got the attachment from browser history).

I have a 32HS500 which has this issue. Was there a fix provided? Or can anybody tell me if this can be fixed?

TIA
LL
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post #2447 of 2962 Old 04-21-2007, 07:39 AM
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So, does there happen to be a XBR970 service manual floating around in this thread anywhere? With this thread being 82 pages it would take an eternity for me to search all of it to find out. Just wondering if any of you guys know offhand.
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post #2448 of 2962 Old 04-21-2007, 11:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wickerman1972 View Post

So, does there happen to be a XBR970 service manual floating around in this thread anywhere? With this thread being 82 pages it would take an eternity for me to search all of it to find out. Just wondering if any of you guys know offhand.

While the service manuel i have is not specific to the XBR970 it does cover all the codes though for the various model of sony tv's such as HS420/XBR970,XBR960,XS955.

And is very detailed on most of the codes functions.

If anybody wants one PM me with your mailing address and $5

Reason why i ask for $5 is the information is very valuable, it's my bible of the sony gods.
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post #2449 of 2962 Old 04-22-2007, 08:15 PM
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I know that RCUT and RDRV both have something to do with the color red, but can anyone explain how or what exactly are these things doing if you change them?
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post #2450 of 2962 Old 04-23-2007, 12:13 PM
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I asked a question on the last page and have not received a reply. So I am thinking either the description I gave for the problem was not good enough, or no one else has had the problem to comment on.

I hope I just did not describe the problem good enough.

Here goes again. My 30-xs955 has a noticeable red tint when no signal is present with slightly more red lines running from left to right. They are not perfectly straight but are perpendicular to each other.

I believe that the background should be completely black when no signal is present. I may be wrong in assuming this but do not believe that I am.

This is present on all inputs, it is visible on tv shows especially dark ones like Lost.

I also have a xbr960 that does not display this particular problem. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks
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post #2451 of 2962 Old 04-24-2007, 04:52 AM
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I've been tinkering with the service menu and I've decided that I want to start from scratch. Yet, when I press 7 and/or 9 and turn it off, the settings are the same as when I changed them when I turn the television back on. How do I get the settings back to "factory set"?

The main problem I'm having is that when the shot moves horizontally, it's like it's not spread out equally. Like when something from the side of the screen moves to the middle, it gets skinnier and when it gets to the sides, the object becomes wider. Any help would be grateful. I have a 970, btw.
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post #2452 of 2962 Old 04-24-2007, 05:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QuiGonJosh View Post

I've been tinkering with the service menu and I've decided that I want to start from scratch. Yet, when I press 7 and/or 9 and turn it off, the settings are the same as when I changed them when I turn the television back on. How do I get the settings back to "factory set"?

The main problem I'm having is that when the shot moves horizontally, it's like it's not spread out equally. Like when something from the side of the screen moves to the middle, it gets skinnier and when it gets to the sides, the object becomes wider. Any help would be grateful. I have a 970, btw.

Please do not attempt any type of reset in the service menu. It will cause you a world of hurt. You should have written down all of your service menu settings PRIOR to making any adjustments so that you could always get back to a factory aligned state.

The main problem you mentioned sounds like the effect of wide zoom screen mode. An explanation of the screen modes can be found in your instruction manual. What mode are you using for these adjustments? You mentioned in another post that you only view DVDs on your set. Anamorphic/enhanced for 16:9 DVDs should be viewed in FULL screen mode while 4:3 DVDs can be viewed in NORMAL screen mode (with black pillars but no stretching) or WIDE ZOOM mode (with no black pillars but with a non-linear stretch).

Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin
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post #2453 of 2962 Old 04-24-2007, 06:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raouliii View Post

Please do not attempt any type of reset in the service menu. It will cause you a world of hurt. You should have written down all of your service menu settings PRIOR to making any adjustments so that you could always get back to a factory aligned state.

I did it once before and it just set the settings back to what they were before I went into the service menu.

Quote:


The main problem you mentioned sounds like the effect of wide zoom screen mode. An explanation of the screen modes can be found in your instruction manual. What mode are you using for these adjustments? You mentioned in another post that you only view DVDs on your set. Anamorphic/enhanced for 16:9 DVDs should be viewed in FULL screen mode while 4:3 DVDs can be viewed in NORMAL screen mode (with black pillars but no stretching) or WIDE ZOOM mode (with no black pillars but with a non-linear stretch).

I'm viewing my DVD's in Full mode. The problem isn't quite as bad as if it were in Wide Zoom, but it's still the same kind of problem, just to a lesser effect.

Could someone tell me which setting in the service menu would help this problem? Or at least explain how to reset the service menu settings? Or does anyone know the defaults for some of the horizontal/vertical settings? I should have played it smart and written down the defaults.
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post #2454 of 2962 Old 04-24-2007, 07:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QuiGonJosh View Post

I did it once before and it just set the settings back to what they were before I went into the service menu.

I'm viewing my DVD's in Full mode. The problem isn't quite as bad as if it were in Wide Zoom, but it's still the same kind of problem, just to a lesser effect.

Could someone tell me which setting in the service menu would help this problem? Or at least explain how to reset the service menu settings? Or does anyone know the defaults for some of the horizontal/vertical settings? I should have played it smart and written down the defaults.

I don't have the Sony service manual for the XBR970 but have them for every crt set prior.

If you were successful in a previous reset then I'll bet you already have issues. I believe a full NVM (non-volatile memory) reset will default the service menu parameters to a state that is used at the factory PRIOR to factory alignments. You DON'T want to be there. The greatest apparent effect of a reset will be on geometry (your current problem) and convergence (white lines have red/blue borders).

That being said, all prior XBR CRT sets use the following to reset NVM in the service menu. 7, then 9, then enter

BTW, don't do it. Did I say don't do it? Damn, this thread is dangerous.

Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin
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post #2455 of 2962 Old 04-24-2007, 07:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raouliii View Post

I don't have the Sony service manual for the XBR970 but have them for every crt set prior.

If you were successful in a previous reset then I'll bet you already have issues. I believe a full NVM (non-volatile memory) reset will default the service menu parameters to a state that is used at the factory PRIOR to factory alignments. You DON'T want to be there. The greatest apparent effect of a reset will be on geometry (your current problem) and convergence (white lines have red/blue borders).

That being said, all prior XBR CRT sets use the following to reset NVM in the service menu. 7, then 9, then enter

BTW, don't do it. Did I say don't do it? Damn, this thread is dangerous.

This will just reset it to the state that it was when I first hooked it up, correct? It won't affect my contrast, brightness, etc. settings in the regular menu, will it?

Also, does anyone know what the default settings are for the following: SLIN, HCNT, VSCO, VSIZ, and HSIZ? If I know the defaults, it might make a reset seem moot.

I'm also seeing some convergence problems as well, but they aren't bugging me as much as the geometry ones.
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post #2456 of 2962 Old 04-24-2007, 08:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QuiGonJosh View Post

This will just reset it to the state that it was when I first hooked it up, correct? It won't affect my contrast, brightness, etc. settings in the regular menu, will it?

No, what raouliii is saying is that this will reset it to it's infant state - before the technicians at the Sony factory set it up. It will likely be nothing at all like it was when you first hooked it up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by QuiGonJosh View Post

Also, does anyone know what the default settings are for the following: SLIN, HCNT, VSCO, VSIZ, and HSIZ? If I know the defaults, it might make a reset seem moot.

There are no "default" settings for the 2170D-1 and 2170D-2 parameters. Since every set is differnet, the technicians at the Sony factory adjust the TV to factory specs, and those settings would be considered the "default" settings for your TV. They're different from the straight-from-the-factory settings for every other TV. AFAIK, if you didn't write those settings down and know what they are, then you don't have them anymore, and there's no way to reset the TV to how it came from the factory.
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post #2457 of 2962 Old 04-24-2007, 08:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G-Bull View Post

No, what raouliii is saying is that this will reset it to it's infant state - before the technicians at the Sony factory set it up. It will likely be nothing at all like it was when you first hooked it up.

There are no "default" settings for the 2170D-1 and 2170D-2 parameters. Since every set is differnet, the technicians at the Sony factory adjust the TV to factory specs, and those settings would be considered the "default" settings for your TV. They're different from the straight-from-the-factory settings for every other TV. AFAIK, if you didn't write those settings down and know what they are, then you don't have them anymore, and there's no way to reset the TV to how it came from the factory.

I reset it a couple of days ago and it looked like it did when I first hooked it up. Complete with the bowing on the left hand side of screen. I was just wanting to reset it so that I could just fix that and leave everything else alone.
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post #2458 of 2962 Old 04-24-2007, 08:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QuiGonJosh View Post

I reset it a couple of days ago and it looked like it did when I first hooked it up. Complete with the bowing on the left hand side of screen. I was just wanting to reset it so that I could just fix that and leave everything else alone.

I've read too many horror stories in other posts here about people who reset the TV and messed it all up and couldn't get it back to how they wanted it, that I've never been willing to give the reset a try. But maybe Sony changed something with the "reset" functionality on this model, where it does like you say and sets it back to how it was when you first hooked it up, and not back to a pre-factory-setup state. I'm not willing to take the risk to try it to find out, so I can't say whether it will only reset the geometry problems or if it will reset all your user-menu settings and other service-menu settings, too. My suggestion is, if you know what the different geometry-correction functions in 2170D-1 and 2170D-2 do, don't bother to try to reset it to how it was from the factory. Just put a good geometry test pattern on the screen and keep going with your corrections until you get it looking good.
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post #2459 of 2962 Old 04-24-2007, 10:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G-Bull View Post

I've read too many horror stories in other posts here about people who reset the TV and messed it all up and couldn't get it back to how they wanted it, that I've never been willing to give the reset a try. But maybe Sony changed something with the "reset" functionality on this model, where it does like you say and sets it back to how it was when you first hooked it up, and not back to a pre-factory-setup state. I'm not willing to take the risk to try it to find out, so I can't say whether it will only reset the geometry problems or if it will reset all your user-menu settings and other service-menu settings, too. My suggestion is, if you know what the different geometry-correction functions in 2170D-1 and 2170D-2 do, don't bother to try to reset it to how it was from the factory. Just put a good geometry test pattern on the screen and keep going with your corrections until you get it looking good.

When I reset it before, all of my standard menu settings (color, brightness, etc.) stayed the same, but the service menu settings went back to default. Perhaps Sony did change it with this brand.

But I think I've fixed the problem I was having using the HCNT settings and lowering it. At least, I hope. It seems to look right now.
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post #2460 of 2962 Old 04-24-2007, 11:00 PM
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I've really messed my Sony up geometry and screen size.

I DID NOT WRITE DOWN THE ORIGINAL VALUES FOR THE SERVICE ITEM. So I'm pretty well messed up right now.

The issue I'm having is I can not get the screen to display the entire frame without setting HSIZ to above 56, which makes the Video input and Screen mode labels be very cut off.
Code:
-----------------------------
|                                  |
|ideo6                          |
|                                  |
|                                  |
|ull Screen                   |
-----------------------------
I tried to set the default values as listed in this document:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attac...chmentid=36480

Frankly once I get to MID1, Item 7 I don't understand which value shoudl be which, so I tried them all and kept the closest one.

If anyone has any ideas please let me know. I'll type my serive code values below.
I am trying to do this on Video 5 or Video 6 in 1080i mode, using Full Screen (no zoom) as the screen mode.
My VSIZ value is lower becasue the default (39) looks way too stretched.
Here are MY values from the service menus.

Code:
2170D-1        210D-2
VPOS - 24      HCNT - 38
VSIZ - 28      HCNT - 38
VSZO - 0       HCNT - 38
VLIN - 4       HCNT - 38
VSCO - 7       HSIZ - 56
VCEN - 19      SLIN - 5
VPIN - 20      MPIN - 10
MVPN - 0       PIN -12
NSCO - 31      UCP - 37
HTPZ - 22      LCP - 43
MHTZ - 0       UXCG - 0
ZOOM - 0       LXCP - 2
APSW - 0       UXCP -2
ASPT - 0       CXPP - 0
SCRL - 31      PPHA - 14
UVLN - 0       VANG - 31
LVLN - 0       LANG - 31
                    VBOX - 31
                    LBOW - 31

2107-3
HBLK - 1
LBLK - 50
RBLK - 31
VBLK - 1
TBLK - 4
BBLK - 6
AFCM - 2
JUMP - 0
VDJP - 1
VDST - 0
AKBT - 16


MID-1         MID-3
DHPH - 108    VDHP - 107
DVPH - 35     VDHS - 240
DHAR - 240    VDVE - 19
DVAR - 135    VDVS - 135
DHPW - 55     VDVO - 0 
DVPW - 5      VCPO - 72
DYCD - 0      VCWD - 3
DYSD - 1      VYCD - 0
MDHP - 70     VSTP - 133
MDVP - 0      VSTT - 0
MDHS - 204    VHSC - 10
MDVS - 128    VFRV - 0

MLHP - 36
MLVP - 8
SDHP - 167
SDVP - 5
SDHS - 115
SDVS - 79
PDHP - 0
PDVP - 0
PDHS - 0
DPSW - 0
MDLV - 12
BCOL - 0
DYSS - 1
OSDH - 32
OSDV - 16

Thanks in advance,
Tom in San Diego
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