THE SONY SERVICE CODES - Articles, Comments, Discoveries - Page 94 - AVS Forum
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post #2791 of 2969 Old 12-22-2008, 06:40 AM
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NO THE 34XBR960...only does this after it has been turnd off for maybe a couple of hours...it seems to have a problem turning back on..
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post #2792 of 2969 Old 12-28-2008, 03:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fahrenheit View Post

Finally uploaded a video showing my issue. Its probably not going to give any helpful insight to where the fault lies, but hopefully it does a better job of explaining it than my muddled attempts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6HX21...e=channel_page

I run through with 1080i first to show what should be happening.

Hi I have searched throughout the AVS and found this thread and while I am not sure if this is the right place, it is the most relevant I have found so far.
I inherited a Sony kv 20fs120 and it has a RGB component set in the back...but for some reason, it is not accepting it. I tested the component cable against my projector when connected to HD DVD player and Xbox 360 but when connected to the Sony, I get just unsynched scrambled darkness.

Is there a specific cable requirement? Yes I connected correctly. I don't have a remote for this tv but managed to navigate through its menu with front panel buttons.

Thanks for reading and helping out...
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post #2793 of 2969 Old 12-28-2008, 03:11 PM
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What resolution signal are you feeding it? IIRC, it would only accept 480i.

Yes, calibration is important...every user should be calibrated.

Need electronics repair? A great place to start looking for a shop in your area: http://www.tvrepairpros.com/
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post #2794 of 2969 Old 12-28-2008, 04:46 PM
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Im having a big problem with my KV-34XBR800. I have used this thread to do my focus settings in the service menu, and everything is focused real nice. Im am having a problem with my 480P mode, I have a Sony progressive DVD player going to vid 5 via component cables. When I play a Widescreen DVD, the picture is just a small box in the middle of the screen. If I go into the TV menu under the "Screen" option I can set the picture modes under "Wide Mode" to "Full,Zoom,Wide Zoom,or Normal" When I use any of the settings, it will strech the picture across the screen, but with major letterboxing (like 4" on the top and bottom) If its set to "Normal" I get the small box in the center of the screen. I have a Xbox 360 going to the DVI connector on the TV, and using the same DVD in the 360, the picture is full widescreen, with just a 1/2" letterboxing on the top and bottom of the screen. Also, when using the 360 as the DVD player, I am not able to change the settings in the TV menu under "Screen", the options are greyed out. In the service menu it shows the TV is in 720p mode when watching DVD's on the 360, while the Sony DVD player shows 480p mode. So Im assuming the problem exists in the 480p service menus. I have the factory service menu settings PDF and when I look at the horizontal and vertical settings, they are the same as the PDF settings. Im not sure what setting was changed that affects this, if any. If someone can help I would greatly appreciate it.

I forgot to mention that when I set the Xbox 360 to 480p in its setup options, I get the same exact problem when watching a DVD. This is only in 480p mode, 720p and 1080i modes on the 360 display the DVD picture properly.
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post #2795 of 2969 Old 12-28-2008, 05:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lcaillo View Post

What resolution signal are you feeding it? IIRC, it would only accept 480i.

Right now, it is connected to the DirecTV HR-21 via composite. The format button on the DirecTV shows various signal settings, including 1080i, but that would not make sense. Just wondering why I cannot connect DirecTV component out to this Sony.
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post #2796 of 2969 Old 12-28-2008, 05:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GanJahMan View Post

... Im am having a problem with my 480P mode, I have a Sony progressive DVD player going to vid 5 via component cables. When I play a Widescreen DVD, the picture is just a small box in the middle of the screen. If I go into the TV menu under the "Screen" option I can set the picture modes under "Wide Mode" to "Full,Zoom,Wide Zoom,or Normal" When I use any of the settings, it will strech the picture across the screen, but with major letterboxing (like 4" on the top and bottom) If its set to "Normal" I get the small box in the center of the screen......

Make sure the DVD player is setup for a 16:9 tv.

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post #2797 of 2969 Old 12-28-2008, 06:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by natchie View Post

Right now, it is connected to the DirecTV HR-21 via composite. The format button on the DirecTV shows various signal settings, including 1080i, but that would not make sense. Just wondering why I cannot connect DirecTV component out to this Sony.

It is because you can only display 480i on the set and the output from the sat reciever is 480p, 720p, or 1080i. You have to have a 480i signal to display component on this set.

Yes, calibration is important...every user should be calibrated.

Need electronics repair? A great place to start looking for a shop in your area: http://www.tvrepairpros.com/
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post #2798 of 2969 Old 12-28-2008, 07:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lcaillo View Post

It is because you can only display 480i on the set and the output from the sat reciever is 480p, 720p, or 1080i. You have to have a 480i signal to display component on this set.

Thanks for reviewing. Guess at this point, it does not seem possible to make use of it. What would be a typical source of 480i signal? And also, at this point, does it matter for me to be concerned?
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post #2799 of 2969 Old 12-31-2008, 07:04 AM
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Hello, I have a 30xs955 and i have noticed recently that news crawls and other horizontal lines tend to go uphill from right to left, on both the top and the bottom. It looks like the whole picture needs to be rotated a few degrees. I have tweaked this tv before and made blacks and colors look better, but i havent messed with geometry. Does anyone know if there is an option in the menu for Rotation? and if so what it is called?

Thanks!
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post #2800 of 2969 Old 12-31-2008, 08:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_EluSivE View Post

Hello, I have a 30xs955 and i have noticed recently that news crawls and other horizontal lines tend to go uphill from right to left, on both the top and the bottom. It looks like the whole picture needs to be rotated a few degrees. I have tweaked this tv before and made blacks and colors look better, but i havent messed with geometry. Does anyone know if there is an option in the menu for Rotation? and if so what it is called?

Thanks!
Dr.

I believe the rotation adjustment would be 2170D-1, 8 NSCO.

There is a Tilt setting in the USER Setup Menu. You might try that first.

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post #2801 of 2969 Old 01-05-2009, 04:30 AM
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I know this is an old thread but, I finally got around to completely re-learning all this stuff and completely recalibrating my set from geometry to color and beyond. I have corrected and/or alleviated much of the geometry errors I've had, used HCFR and an Xrite i1 Display 2 connected to a tablet PC to set grayscale, color, etc. I had an interesting finding I wanted to share and a question I wanted to ask.

The Finding.
Setting Light Output at Y=100.
I'd like to point out that, on my set at least, when trying to set contrast and black levels using the colorimeter sensor to achieve a light output of 100 Y(brightness) isn't as easy as point-and-shoot. With my 34xs955 every time you adjust Picture and Brightness you end up with a different brightness reading on the colorimeter when reading a 100% white window. I had to adjust the picture setting and brightness setting one notch at a time until I finally achieved proper grayscale tracking with a gamma of 2.2 and a light output of 100.

To explain this another way
... If you put up a 100% white window then measure the light output and get say Y=102.5 then adjust your brightness to get .65 of that with a 10% window when you re-measure the 100% white window (without touching the Picture control) you might end up with Y=98.5 or some number other than 102.5. I had to continue to turn up the Picture control and recalculate until I finally ended up with a stable light output and, yes YLMT was at 3. I ended up with about Y=100.22 at 29.99ftl for the display. Sweet!

The Question.
If some of you, Dsperber, Ken, ADU, etc, had to pick only one set of settings for HD and one set for SD content would you set SYSM to 2 or 3 and what corresponding codes/image tweaks would go along with that if your sharpness slider stayed at 0?

I was watching The Matrix and noticed that with SYSM=2 and MHYL=3 and MHYE=3 really brings out texture detail but I'm wondering if there are other settings I should try to get a more pure picture. I have my sharpness slider at 0.
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post #2802 of 2969 Old 01-06-2009, 04:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NextGen View Post

The Question.
If some of you, Dsperber, Ken, ADU, etc, had to pick only one set of settings for HD and one set for SD content would you set SYSM to 2 or 3 and what corresponding codes/image tweaks would go along with that if your sharpness slider stayed at 0?

I was watching The Matrix and noticed that with SYSM=2 and MHYL=3 and MHYE=3 really brings out texture detail but I'm wondering if there are other settings I should try to get a more pure picture. I have my sharpness slider at 0.

It's been awhile since I posted here as well. I'd be glad to give a few pointers if I can though. The only inputs I use on my Sony 34XBR800 are DVI and Component at 1080i though, so I can provide some tips on adjusting the edge settings for HD signals. The SD settings are bit more involved, so I may not be as much help with those.

First thing I'd suggest is to start with the User Sharpness control at the middle setting rather than turning it all the way down to the lowest setting. Turning Sharpness all the way down will actually degrade the detail, rather than turning Sharpness "off" on the Sony HD tubes. If you don't like how Sharpness looks at the middle setting, then you can tweak the basic sharpening effect higher or lower for a given resolution/input/picture mode using the 2170P-3/SHOF Sharpness offset. If you want to go by the book there are some patterns that can be of some use in making this tweak, such as the horizontal luminance sweep, and edge-enhancement tests in DVE. Be advised though that these patterns can easily be skewed by the other myriad edge-filtering controls in the SM. So you may do just as well setting it by eye based on the amount of edginess you want in the picture as anything else. There are only four different settings for SHOF, so it shouldn't be that tough deciding which looks best to your eyes for a given input. Once you have SHOF adjusted, then you can tweak the User Sharpness control up or down as needed for different programming.

2170P-3/SYSM basically controls the coarseness of the Sharpness control. SYSM=3 provides the finest sharpening, and SYSM=1 provides the coarsest. I prefer SYSM=3 for both HD and SD sources to preserve the finest details in both types of signals. It may depend on your viewing distance though. There may be some benefit to using a coarser setting if your viewing distance is much greater than about 6 or 7 feet to the TV for example, because the ultra-fine details become harder to make out the farther away you get.

There is another 2170P-3 parameter that is also closely related to SYSM, called SHF0 (not the same as SHOF). SHF0 appears to act basically like a high-pass filter, filtering out ultra-fine detail from the picture. A setting of SHF0=1 turns this filter OFF, allowing the super fine details (or noise as the case may be) to pass through. This works sort of like a sub-SYSM control, giving one extra level of finetuning for the level of detail in the image. Filtering out the ultra-fine detail with SHF0=0 will tend to give the picture a bit more sense of depth and "looseness" (and some might say also a bit more harshness). While disabling it (SHF0=1) will tend to make the picture seem a bit flatter, tighter and more "computer monitor-like", if that means anything. I go back and forth on this control, so my advise is just to try it set both ways, and see which you prefer, and which may be less stressful for your eyes.

There are other edge controls in 2170P-3 worth investigating as well, including the VM controls. If you want me to get into those too, just say so.

MID5/MHYL and MHYE control the enhancement of luminance detail in a horizontal direction (ie the sharpness of vertical edges). These are part of a group of digital edge controls that effect luminance and color detail in either a horizontal and vertical direction. The other related controls in the grouping are MHCL, MHCE, MVYL, MVYE, MVCL & MVCE.

MHYE controls the amount of luminance detail enhancement in a horizontal direction. And MHYL controls how coarse or fine that horizontal luminance detail enhancement will be, with 3 being the finest setting. The other controls are paired up the same way. (Note that the coarseness control actually comes first in each case, because it makes sense to adjust that before deciding how much of a sharpening effect you want.)

MHCL = coarseness of horizontal color detail enhancement
MHCE = amount of horizontal color detail enhancement

MVYL = coarseness of vertical luminance detail enhancement
MVYE = amount of vertical luminance detail enhancement

MVCL = coarseness of vertical color detail enhancement
MVCE = amount of vertical color detail enhancement

To simplify things on my TV, I treat this group of parameters as though they were just two controls-- one for the overall coarseness, and one for amount of overall detail enhancement. I leave all the coarseness settings (MHYL, MHCL, MVYL & MVCL) at 3. And then just tweak all the "amount" parameters (MHYE, MHCE, MVYE & MVCE) up and down together like a single control. I would not be afraid to get a little aggressive with the amount parameters on SD sources, and softer-looking HD sources such as you might get from alot of upconverting DVD players (like mine). These filters can do alot to bump up the detail in such sources, giving them a much more HD-like appearance. Settings as high as 5, 6 or even 7 are not out the realm of possibility here for MHYE, MHCE, MVYE and MVCE.

For higher quality HD inputs though (such as a Blu-ray player or HD broadcasts), you'll probably want MHYE, MHCE, MVYE and MVCE a bit more toned down, or perhaps even turned completely off.

Hopefully that'll get you started. If you want me to get a bit more into the nuts and bolts of these and the other edge filtering controls, just say so, and I'll try to break things down in more detail. Note also that if you had the "1080i scrolling bar fix" applied on your TV, then chances are the MID5 controls will have no effect on 1080i on your TV because the MID/DRC circuits are being bypassed for those signals.

ADU
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post #2803 of 2969 Old 01-06-2009, 05:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ADU View Post

It's been awhile since I posted here as well. I'd be glad to give a few pointers if I can though. The only inputs I use on my Sony 34XBR800 are DVI and Component at 1080i though, so I can provide some tips on adjusting the edge settings for HD signals. The SD settings are bit more involved, so I may not be as much help with those.

First thing I'd suggest is to start with Sharpness at the middle setting rather than turning it all the way down to 0. Setting it to 0 actually degrades the detail, rather than turning Sharpness "off" on the Sony HD tubes.

Thanks for the response. I think I'm really starting to understand why someone would want certain components connected to specific inputs and each input and source having their own service mode "tweaks" applied. When playing video games there isn't as much signal degradation because things are rendered in real-time and sent directly to the TV. So, for my PS3 and 360 it would make sense to have a very flat unfiltered signal set to "Pro" mode. Then an enhanced and slightly filtered signal on something like "Movie" mode for watching Bluray or HD DVD. For my Dish I may want to use a different input with different enhancements for 2 or 3 modes. Some stations and some shows themselves look bad even in HD, so having different modes with different tweaks added could really be beneficial in getting the most out of the broadcast.

But honestly, I'm not that picky. I'm the most picky with Bluray and Video Games. So maybe I should have asked what settings in MID5 and 2170P-3 give the purest representation of a direct real-time source? I'm sure it's going to be enhancements turned off but, even with everything posted here I'm not positive as to which codes should be set to 0 or 1 or maybe another number such as 7 or even 3. And some codes can't be turned off or bypassed so we would need to set them at either the middle/neutral setting or least amount of enhancement. The strange thing is that even with no sharpness applied to the signal I still see slight differences when adjusting SYSM. For the longest time I left it at 3, but at the moment I have it at 2 and, unless it's my imagination, I do seem to like this setting better for the time being or until I put up some more patters and play around again.

For a pure signal, here is what I have right now but, I'm not entirely sure this is as pure as I can get.

21703-P
SYSM=2
VMLV=0
VMCR=0
VMLM=3(no effect if VM off?)
VMFO=0
VMDL=0
SHOF=0
SHFO=1
PROV=1
FILV=0
LTLV=0
LTLV=0
LTMD=0
CTLV=0
MIDE=63
VM=0
VMH=0
VMM=0
VML=0
VGAP=0
VGAS=0
VGAB=0
VGAC=0
VGAV=0

MID5
ALL CODES = 0 for group 63 which MIDE points to.

I had no idea setting sharpness to 0 degrades the detail in the Sony tubes. However, I have mine set to 0 and can't see any degradation. This could be that I just don't know any better or it could have something to do with a group of codes in my 34xs955 that some owners don't have. ENHA

ENHA is like getting an eye exam, as you manipulate the group of codes they interact with each other to take the picture in and out of focus. I simply tweaked mine until I got the sharpest picture. It's like going from 20/20 vision to 20/15 when you get the right setting.

ENHA
HSHP=0
HSFO=15
HPOR=0
HLTL=3
HLTM=0
HAPL=0
HAPA=0
HCTL=0
HCTM=0
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post #2804 of 2969 Old 01-06-2009, 06:10 PM
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Wow you guys are smart. Maybe you can help me.

My KW34HD1 used to sync to 480p now it won't. It's the first generation Sony HDTV and it still has the best gosh darn colors and contrast out there. Anyway I changed the DVD player. I'm now using the Samsung BD UP5000 dual format DVD player, set to 480p and unfortunately the signal wont sync. On the OP device submenu, item AFD=1. Any other menu items that would help this to sync? Other suggestions (other than a new TV)?
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post #2805 of 2969 Old 01-06-2009, 07:17 PM
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I have a 34XS955.

I've spent a ton of time reading this thread over the past few days and finally took the plunge with setting gray scale and trying to fix red push as described by KenTech.

I think I've been pretty successful in both however I have one question about setting color decoding properly.

In Pro mode, Neutral color, color Axis set to Monitor (and all other sliders a default/middle) I seem to have what I can only describe as "blue push". In other words, following the instructions I saw, I set RGBS to 1 (blue gun only) and then adjusted UCOF and UHOF to get as close as possible and wrote the settings. I then cycled through the red gun (adjusting RYR and RYB) and green gun (adjusting GYR and GYB). Red and green are almost perfect. No adjustment would make it better. When I return to the blue gun only, I see that blue and cyan stand out from the blue background and I seem to have no way to impact this. Have I gone wrong somewhere along the way? If it matters I'm running the Blu-Ray DVE on a PS3 running into HDMI/Video7.

I'm not hugely concerned because red push is definitely gone and the picture looks so much more realistic than when I started messing with it. I'm just curious if there's some way to maybe make it even better.
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post #2806 of 2969 Old 01-06-2009, 08:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnc_22 View Post

I have a 34XS955.

I've spent a ton of time reading this thread over the past few days and finally took the plunge with setting gray scale and trying to fix red push as described by KenTech.

I think I've been pretty successful in both however I have one question about setting color decoding properly.

In Pro mode, Neutral color, color Axis set to Monitor (and all other sliders a default/middle) I seem to have what I can only describe as "blue push". In other words, following the instructions I saw, I set RGBS to 1 (blue gun only) and then adjusted UCOF and UHOF to get as close as possible and wrote the settings. I then cycled through the red gun (adjusting RYR and RYB) and green gun (adjusting GYR and GYB). Red and green are almost perfect. No adjustment would make it better. When I return to the blue gun only, I see that blue and cyan stand out from the blue background and I seem to have no way to impact this. Have I gone wrong somewhere along the way? If it matters I'm running the Blu-Ray DVE on a PS3 running into HDMI/Video7.

I'm not hugely concerned because red push is definitely gone and the picture looks so much more realistic than when I started messing with it. I'm just curious if there's some way to maybe make it even better.

You could have your colors turned up too high (too close to your 100% white point. Red should be 21% of your full white light output of your display) or you may want to check your color gamma settings. GAMS GAMR GAMG GAMB.

Or someone with more experience that me may know the problem. I can tell you that my 34xs955 had the same problem with blue and it wasn't until I set my gamma at 2.2 and got 100% Red at 21% of 100% white that everything fell into place. If you haven't already, check out this thread.
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post #2807 of 2969 Old 01-06-2009, 08:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnc_22 View Post

...I've spent a ton of time reading this thread over the past few days and finally took the plunge with setting gray scale...

Did you perform actual grayscale calibration using drives and cuts, xDRV and xCUT? This is very difficult to do without a color analyzer. If you did adjust drives and cuts by eye, this may be contributing to your decoder issues below.
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnc_22 View Post

.....I have one question about setting color decoding properly.

In Pro mode, Neutral color, color Axis set to Monitor (and all other sliders a default/middle) I seem to have what I can only describe as "blue push". In other words, following the instructions I saw, I set RGBS to 1 (blue gun only) and then adjusted UCOF and UHOF to get as close as possible and wrote the settings. I then cycled through the red gun (adjusting RYR and RYB) and green gun (adjusting GYR and GYB). Red and green are almost perfect. No adjustment would make it better. When I return to the blue gun only, I see that blue and cyan stand out from the blue background and I seem to have no way to impact this. Have I gone wrong somewhere along the way? If it matters I'm running the Blu-Ray DVE on a PS3 running into HDMI/Video7.......

UCOF and UHOF are parameters that are video mode and input dependent and are, IMHO, not a good place to start to set your reference color decoding.

A reference color/hue adjustment might be better conducted using global parameters such as 2170P-4,SCLO and SHUO. Then, SCOL and SHUE, which are input dependent can be used to fine tune other inputs.

RYR, RYB and GYR, GYB are the correct global settings for the rest of the color decoder adjustment.

BTW, global reference offsets for picture (contrast/white level) and brightness (black level) would be 2170P-4,SPIO and 2170P-1,SBRT.

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post #2808 of 2969 Old 01-06-2009, 09:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike2567 View Post

Wow you guys are smart. Maybe you can help me.

My KW34HD1 used to sync to 480p now it won't. It's the first generation Sony HDTV and it still has the best gosh darn colors and contrast out there. Anyway I changed the DVD player. I'm now using the Samsung BD UP5000 dual format DVD player, set to 480p and unfortunately the signal wont sync. On the OP device submenu, item AFD=1. Any other menu items that would help this to sync? Other suggestions (other than a new TV)?

Is there another 480p source you can try to verify that the problem is indeed in the TV and not the player?

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post #2809 of 2969 Old 01-06-2009, 09:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnc_22 View Post

I have a 34XS955.

I've spent a ton of time reading this thread over the past few days and finally took the plunge with setting gray scale and trying to fix red push as described by KenTech.

I think I've been pretty successful in both however I have one question about setting color decoding properly.

In Pro mode, Neutral color, color Axis set to Monitor (and all other sliders a default/middle) I seem to have what I can only describe as "blue push". In other words, following the instructions I saw, I set RGBS to 1 (blue gun only) and then adjusted UCOF and UHOF to get as close as possible and wrote the settings. I then cycled through the red gun (adjusting RYR and RYB) and green gun (adjusting GYR and GYB). Red and green are almost perfect. No adjustment would make it better. When I return to the blue gun only, I see that blue and cyan stand out from the blue background and I seem to have no way to impact this. Have I gone wrong somewhere along the way? If it matters I'm running the Blu-Ray DVE on a PS3 running into HDMI/Video7.

I'm not hugely concerned because red push is definitely gone and the picture looks so much more realistic than when I started messing with it. I'm just curious if there's some way to maybe make it even better.

What are your values for RYR, RYB, GYR and GYB? From what I've seen, the Sony HD tubes tend to be pretty consistent as far as the color decoders are concerned. And the settings should likely be somewhere around 15-15-7-4 for proper color decoding. You might try starting with those values, and then going back and forth between the UCOF color and UHOF hue adjustments until you find a combination that works well with the different RGBS modes.

raouliii also makes a salient point regarding the sub-hue and sub-color controls in 2170P-4. The default settings of 7 work pretty well on my TV for SCLO and SHUO, so I personally would not mess with those too much. However, if there's not enough range of adjustment in 2170P-3/UCOF and UHOF to achieve perfect alignment on the color decoders, then you can tweak the 2170P-4/SCOL and SHUE sub-controls to get some better control on UCOF and UHOF. 2170P-4/SCOL and SHUE should both be around 31 to start with. Some adjustment may be necessary to these controls to correct the color and hue levels on your video source though.

It probably goes without saying that the User Menu controls for Color and Hue should also be set at the middle settings.

Check the color settings on the PS3 as well, to make sure they're appropriately set, and not twisting the HD color space in some way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NextGen View Post

...or you may want to check your color gamma settings. GAMS GAMR GAMG GAMB.

The gamma controls really only come into play when adjusting greyscale. They shouldn't have any effect on color decoding. And you probably wouldn't want to tinker with the individual gamma color components unless you have pretty good instrumentation, and notice an obvious issue with the greyscale that can't be resolved with the other basic greyscale controls.

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post #2810 of 2969 Old 01-06-2009, 09:41 PM
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Originally Posted by NextGen View Post

I had no idea setting sharpness to 0 degrades the detail in the Sony tubes. This could be that I just don't know any better or it could have something to do with a group of codes in my 34xs955 that some owners don't have. ENHA

Perhaps. My TV doesn't have an ENHA group, so maybe that's something that's only on the later or fine-pitch tubes.

Here's a test you can try though to confirm whether or not there is indeed some degradation in clarity at the lower Sharpness settings on your 34XS955. Try setting SYSM to 1, and then adjusting the User Sharpness control from high to low with a fairly detailed pattern on the screen, and see if you notice some excessive softening/blurring of fine details at the lower Sharpness settings.

The effect is more subtle with SYSM set to 2 or 3, but there is still a similar loss in detail at lower Sharpness settings with those modes on my TV. Which is why I recommend starting with the User Sharpness control at the middle, and finetuning the effect at that position with the 2170P-3/SHOF sharpness offset.

If you finetune all the other edge parameters on your TV with the User Sharpness set to it's lowest setting, then the control becomes essentially useless for tweaking different types of program content, because it can only be adjusted in one direction (upward).

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post #2811 of 2969 Old 01-06-2009, 10:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ADU View Post

What are your values for RYR, RYB, GYR and GYB? From what I've seen, the Sony HD tubes tend to be pretty consistent as far as the color decoders are concerned. And the settings should likely be somewhere around 15-15-7-4 for proper color decoding. You might try starting with those values, and then going back and forth between the UCOF color and UHOF hue adjustments until you find a combination that works well with the different RGBS modes.

raouliii also makes a salient point regarding the sub-hue and sub-color controls in 2170P-4. The default settings of 7 work pretty well on my TV for SCLO and SHUO, so I personally would not mess with those too much. However, if there's not enough range of adjustment in 2170P-3/UCOF and UHOF to achieve perfect alignment on the color decoders, then you can tweak the 2170P-4/SCOL and SHUE sub-controls to get some better control on UCOF and UHOF. 2170P-4/SCOL and SHUE should both be around 31 to start with. Some adjustment may be necessary to these controls to correct the color and hue levels on your video source though.

It probably goes without saying that the User Menu controls for Color and Hue should also be set at the middle settings.

Check the color settings on the PS3 as well, to make sure they're appropriately set, and not twisting the HD color space in some way.

johnc_22,

If none of the above yields the results you're after, then you may also need to tweak a couple controls in the the CXA.... group, namely CBGN, CRGN, YGN. These offset the color decoding for HD signals.

The best strategy for adjusting color decoding on these TVs is probably to get it locked down pretty well with an SD source first. Then tweak the CXA..../CBGN, CRGN, and YGN offsets as required to bring the color decoding of HD signals into the best alignment possible. Pretty much everything described above should work though, and at least begin to get you more into the ballpark.

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post #2812 of 2969 Old 01-07-2009, 02:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raouliii View Post

Did you perform actual grayscale calibration using drives and cuts, xDRV and xCUT? This is very difficult to do without a color analyzer. If you did adjust drives and cuts by eye, this may be contributing to your decoder issues below.

As with the Gamma controls, the RGB Drives and Cutoff controls really should have no bearing on the color decoding adjustment. The greyscale was screwed all to hell when I first set color decoding on my 34XBR800 and the decoders aligned just fine.

You want both the color decoders and greyscale set pretty accurately for the color to look it's best on the TV though. If you adjust one without also fixing the other then you've really only done half the job, and may actually be worsening the picture quality on the TV in some ways.

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post #2813 of 2969 Old 01-07-2009, 11:32 AM
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Lots of good advice here. I'm rechecking my gray levels as it just dawned on me the relationship that *DRV and *CUT have on gamma, and while there are probably lots of combination of the 3 *DRV settings and 3 *CUT settings that get close to 6500K, they need to be set close to the 2.2 gamma. I've ordered the Eye-One Colorimeter and will quit using the Spyder2 as it's better than my eyes but apparently not that great (unless I got a bad one and then it's worse). The HCFR software (free) is super-easy to use, and I'm breaking in a new 42" plasma for my bedroom that will need some calibration work as well so I think a better sensor will be a good investment (not to mention computer monitors, etc).

I'll try all the suggestions here. I should be able to work on color decoding without the new sensor given that's pretty easy to eyeball even in a lit room with the "one gun at a time" approach.

I'm mainly interested in getting the gray scale and color decoding as correct as possible and then tweak VIDEO5 and VIDEO7 as needed from the user menu. I want to set it and forget it. Even with the stumbling around I've done so far the image is MUCH better than when I started.

I did have to DIY replacement of the D Board in this set a few months ago (should have tried soldering the ICs myself but . . .). Would that impact the state of my television and color calibration?

Thanks again for all the great advice and help here.
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post #2814 of 2969 Old 01-07-2009, 01:58 PM
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Remember that your target is D65, not 6500K.

Yes, calibration is important...every user should be calibrated.

Need electronics repair? A great place to start looking for a shop in your area: http://www.tvrepairpros.com/
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post #2815 of 2969 Old 01-07-2009, 04:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnc_22 View Post

I've ordered the Eye-One Colorimeter and will quit using the Spyder2 as it's better than my eyes but apparently not that great.

My Spyder2 did an ok job at setting my grayscale, the problem came when I tried color decoding. For the life of me, I thought I'd never get the secondary colors right. I don't think the Spyder 2 can see the color yellow, my eyes actually did a better job. As soon as I tried out the i1 not only could I set the secondary colors in less than 5 minutes but, I even got my grayscale better.

After that I just started over and redid the whole calibration with the i1 and all the small corrections I made with it ended up as a fairly drastic difference from what I had with the Spyder2.

You'll love the Eye One and I wouldn't be surprised if half your problem was the Spyder 2.
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post #2816 of 2969 Old 01-07-2009, 04:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raouliii View Post

Did you perform actual grayscale calibration using drives and cuts, xDRV and xCUT?

Yes but I'll do it over once I get the i1 colorimeter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by raouliii View Post

A reference color/hue adjustment might be better conducted using global parameters such as 2170P-4,SCLO and SHUO. Then, SCOL and SHUE, which are input dependent can be used to fine tune other inputs.

Thanks - these got blue gun only much better and everything else fell into place. It's not 100% perfect but it's very, very close. Weird thing is my settings are not like anyone else's I've seen:

SCLO: 8
SHUO: 6
RYR: 11
RYB: 15
GYR: 13
GYB: 8

Quote:
Originally Posted by raouliii View Post

RYR, RYB and GYR, GYB are the correct global settings for the rest of the color decoder adjustment.

BTW, global reference offsets for picture (contrast/white level) and brightness (black level) would be 2170P-4,SPIO and 2170P-1,SBRT.

Thanks, all great info!
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post #2817 of 2969 Old 01-08-2009, 12:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnc_22 View Post

In Pro mode, Neutral color, color Axis set to Monitor (and all other sliders a default/middle) I seem to have what I can only describe as "blue push". In other words, following the instructions I saw, I set RGBS to 1 (blue gun only) and then adjusted UCOF and UHOF to get as close as possible and wrote the settings. I then cycled through the red gun (adjusting RYR and RYB) and green gun (adjusting GYR and GYB). Red and green are almost perfect. No adjustment would make it better. When I return to the blue gun only, I see that blue and cyan stand out from the blue background and I seem to have no way to impact this. Have I gone wrong somewhere along the way?

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnc_22 View Post

...Weird thing is my settings are not like anyone else's I've seen

Some variation in settings is certainly possible. But whenever I see inconsistencies or obvious errors in color decoding results, my first instinct is to suspect there's a problem or misadjustment in the color settings on the video source. I've tested probably a dozen or so different makes/models of lower-end DVD players, and have found decoding errors or other color issues on about 1/4 to 1/3 of them. Sony's HDMI players have actually been among the more reliable ones. But I've never checked the color on a PS3, so I can't offer much guidance on that. (And my surveys have been far from exhaustive, so it's possible there could be decoding errors on some Sony models as well, and I've just not run across them.)

IAC, If you have the SD edition of DVE or AVIA, and another DVD player, I might recommend using that to try to confirm your color decoder settings for RYR, RYB, GYR, GYB using the Component inputs at 480p (or 480i if it's not a progressive player). Use the RGBS function in the service menu to isolate the different colors with these as well, rather than using their color filters.

As far as 2170P-4/SCLO and SHUO are concerned... I'd probably leave those particular controls at their default values (which is 7 on my TV). And use the other sub-color/hue controls, such as 2170P-4/SCOL and SHUE, instead to make any necessary tweaks to the color and hue on the PS3's input that are needed in addition to 2170P-3/UCOF and UHOF... unless you find some compelling evidence to suggest a consistent pattern of error in the color/hue adjustments on the other inputs which seems to warrant a more overarching adjustment.

As raouliii mentioned, 2170P-4/SCLO and SHUO are global controls. And changing them alters the color and hue on every other input/resolution on the TV. So IMHO you really only want to tinker with those particular controls if you discover a consistent pattern of misadjustment in the color/hue settings on all of the other inputs on the TV. If you tweak SCLO and SHUO out of their default settings based on the readings on just one input or resolution, you could be needlessly complicating the color adjustment on the others.

There is also evidence to suggest that the HDMI and DVI inputs are not the most reliable place to start making such color tweaks on the Sony TVs. Maybe I'm wrong about this, but I suspect the pros would recommend starting with the Component inputs, using SD color decoder tests, and then sort of cross-referencing the results on those with other inputs/resolutions before tinkering with the global SCLO and SHUO color/hue adjustments. If you start making decisions on how to adjust the global parameters this early in the game, based solely on the PS3, I'm afraid you could potentially be opening an unnecessary can of worms that you'll regret later on when you try to adjust the color on other inputs.

As mentioned above though, color decoding and saturation errors are not that uncommon on lower-end DVD players as well. So before using another player to confirm the color settings you might want to poke around a bit and see if anyone's reported problems with the decoding on your player, and make sure the player's color and hue are properly adjusted. You might also want to see if there are any reports of errors on the PS3 as well, or other issues using the HD decoding tests on the BD edition of DVE (which I also haven't tried yet).

It's also possible that your particular TV is just a little funky, or that your model works a bit differently than some of the other Sony HDTVs. It's hard to know for sure. If you really want to resolve the issue though, then the first steps are probably to try to confirm the color decoder settings on some of the other inputs and resolutions, and try to track down any potentially source-related issues.

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post #2818 of 2969 Old 01-13-2009, 02:56 PM
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Hello, I just started to read this post and I am at page 21.
Sorry if I ask a question that has been asked.
I want to go through the raster settings as explained in the manual.
I am not sure what do they mean when they say:
2. Reduce HSIZ to see sides of raster. (See Figure A) I dont understand what the shape means?

Also , I would like to know which input and what resolution should I use for those adjustments?
Can I use patterns in the service menu for this? Should the raster be done in 480i normal?
Can I use 1080I?
My tv is kd30xs955

EDIT:
I forgot to say that I screw the geometry without saving factory settings.
Should I restore it to factory defaults before I start with raster and then geometry?

thx

below the procedure from the manual:

2-8. H RASTER CENTER ADJUSTMENT
Preparation:
• Input a monoscope signal.
• Set to NTSC (DRC) mode.
1. Set to Service Mode and adjust as follows:
NO. Name Control Function Data
05 AGNG AGING 1, AGING 2 2
NO. Name Control Function Avg. Data
02 HSIZ Horiz Size 31
01 HPOS Horiz Position 31
NO. Name Control Function Avg. Data
00 HBLK Blanking Enable 0
CXA2170P-2
CXA2170D-2
CXA2170D-3
2. Reduce HSIZ to see sides of raster. (See Figure A)
3. Adjust H-Center with CXA2170D-2.
4. Adjust to the best screen position with H-CENT and write data.
5. Restore aging, HSIZ and HBLK to original condition.
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post #2819 of 2969 Old 01-13-2009, 09:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blwegrzyn View Post

I forgot to say that I screw the geometry without saving factory settings.
Should I restore it to factory defaults before I start with raster and then geometry?

thx

below the procedure from the manual:

2-8. H RASTER CENTER ADJUSTMENT
Preparation:
Input a monoscope signal.
Set to NTSC (DRC) mode.
1. Set to Service Mode and adjust as follows:
NO. Name Control Function Data
05 AGNG AGING 1, AGING 2 2
NO. Name Control Function Avg. Data
02 HSIZ Horiz Size 31
01 HPOS Horiz Position 31
NO. Name Control Function Avg. Data
00 HBLK Blanking Enable 0
CXA2170P-2
CXA2170D-2
CXA2170D-3
2. Reduce HSIZ to see sides of raster. (See Figure A)
3. Adjust H-Center with CXA2170D-2.
4. Adjust to the best screen position with H-CENT and write data.
5. Restore aging, HSIZ and HBLK to original condition.

DO NOT use factory resets. It is bad.

"Raster" is hard to define verbally, but when you see it in action, it's understandable.

This was my method for setting the geometry on my XBR970, which should be similar enough to yours. It's a minimalist approach, but it helped me accomplish my basic goals without getting too bogged down in terminology.

"First, adjust H Raster Center. This is a universal adjustment that should be done before the resolution specific ones.
1.Go to 2170D 2 group and set HPOS and HSIZ to 31 each, or at least until you can see the sides of the raster. Then set HCEN (or HCNT).
2.Go to MID1 and reduce overscan and center. Resize to edge of raster. This is another universal adjustment group.
3.Back to 2170D-2 and set raster back out to screen edges.
4.Go to MID2 and set your scan sizes and centering. This group is resolution and input specific, so you'll have to do it for each available resolution with each group of inputs (see your TV back for groupings). "
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post #2820 of 2969 Old 01-14-2009, 06:02 AM
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When I start setting the raster (still dont know what it is) according to the instructions in the manual and I set:
Set to Service Mode and adjust as follows:
05 AGNG AGING 1, AGING 2 2
00 HBLK Blanking Enable 0

The screen becomes kind of grey (AGNG) and HBLK causes to show more on the right site. I still dont understand the term "raster"
My understanding is that raster is visible area in the screen. So after I set above I see:

black stripes this extra is added by HBLK
| | | | |
| | | | |
| | TV SIGNAL | | |
| | | | |
| | | | |
< is this a raster ? >

is the idea to place the visible screen from < to > in the middle by using HCNT?

thx
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