THE SONY SERVICE CODES - Articles, Comments, Discoveries - Page 98 - AVS Forum
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post #2911 of 2962 Old 06-25-2011, 03:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark_Planet View Post

I just got the 34HS420 and its great except one annoying issue.

For example.....If I'm playing RDR or la noir or GTA4 and I run left and right really fast everything in the game has a nasty 3D look without glasses.

Kind of like bad motion judder and double imaging.

If I stand still in the game the ghosting doesn't occur.

What section of the service menu would I need to change to fix this horrible problem??

If it's what I think it is, double imaging, there isn't anything you can do. That sounds like the fact that the games are running at 30fps or lower. I get the same thing on Final Fantasy 13.

Anytime you send a 30fps signal to a 60hz screen you will get this although, you normally only see it with video games. On my CRT what helped to alleviate the problem was to do a manual focus adjustment. Get the focus and convergence of the set as good as possible, it should be computer monitor like in appearance so that you can read fine text even at 1080i from 5-10 feet away. You will still have the same problems but your eyes won't be as strained from seeing it.

I would imagine running the game in an interlaced mode (1080i) would help, since you get frame blending but, in practice I don't think it makes much of a difference.

Not that it has anything to do with it but, if this is the set you mainly play games on then keep in mind the Xbox360 has a gamma problem so some games will never look correct. The PC and PS3 both use sRGB gamma curves where the Xbox360 does not as it uses what is called a "Piecewise sRGB" or it badly approximates sRGB.
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post #2912 of 2962 Old 06-25-2011, 03:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NextGen View Post

Anytime you send a 30fps signal to a 60hz screen you will get this although, you normally only see it with video games. On my CRT what helped to alleviate the problem was to do a manual focus adjustment. Get the focus and convergence of the set as good as possible, it should be computer monitor like in appearance so that you can read fine text even at 1080i from 5-10 feet away. You will still have the same problems but your eyes won't be as strained from seeing it.

I run my PC at 60hz into my XBR800 but most of the video content I watch is either 24/25 or 50fps and I don't really notice any problems, although I guess that's probably because the PC is doing something clever!

I struggle to read text from 6ft away in 720p though, which I just assumed was because the TV doesn't have as fine dot pitch as a PC monitor. Perhaps I just need to work on the focus and convergence some more though!
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post #2913 of 2962 Old 06-25-2011, 04:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doveman View Post

I run my PC at 60hz into my XBR800 but most of the video content I watch is either 24/25 or 50fps and I don't really notice any problems, although I guess that's probably because the PC is doing something clever!

I don't notice it as much when playing video content. I assume because the material was filmed at 24fps so your TV will use Reverse 3-2 Pulldown to help correct it. For some reason though, I see it very easily on video games that run at 30fps. Perhaps someone else understands the technicality of it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by doveman View Post

I struggle to read text from 6ft away in 720p though, which I just assumed was because the TV doesn't have as fine dot pitch as a PC monitor. Perhaps I just need to work on the focus and convergence some more though!

Hard to say, I do have slightly better than 20/20 vision though. I normally keep my HTPC set at 720p on my 955 set. Even though I can read text at 1080i the flicker makes the text a bit hard on my eyes. However, I can see fine text from my HTPC very clearly on my TV. My eyes are about 6 feet from the screen.

That isn't to say it looks anywhere near as nice as my 24" Sony GDM FW900 as my TV has tons of problems that make it a train wreck, such as, convergence errors that can only be fixed with magnets, center focus is much better than the edges of the screen, geometry is still bad off as there is bending of the image on the sides and corners, I also have this flickering issue that comes and goes probably due to failing parts inside the TV itself, and I need to have it gray-scale calibrated again.

Took a pic of the screen with some relatively fine text on it at 1080i. Keep in mind 720p is far more readable and is normally the resolution I use for my PC. That said I don't use the TV when using my PC except for games or video sites like youtube. Ignore the terrible focusing on the corners, minor overscan and, dreadful bowing/bending of the screen.

http://www.fotoshack.us/fotos/80520159small.png
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post #2914 of 2962 Old 06-25-2011, 10:03 PM
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On the super fine pitch capable models, 720p signals are downscaled to 540p.

The main advantage with using 720p sources is if the content is 50/60fps. You lose resolution by choosing 720p over 1080i, but you retain framerate.

Some other CRT TV manufacturers choose to upconvert 720p signals to 1080i, which keeps resolution at the expense of framerate (because you can't resolve 50/60 full frames per second with an interlaced source.
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post #2915 of 2962 Old 06-25-2011, 11:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NextGen View Post

If it's what I think it is, double imaging, there isn't anything you can do. That sounds like the fact that the games are running at 30fps or lower. I get the same thing on Final Fantasy 13.

Anytime you send a 30fps signal to a 60hz screen you will get this although, you normally only see it with video games. On my CRT what helped to alleviate the problem was to do a manual focus adjustment. Get the focus and convergence of the set as good as possible, it should be computer monitor like in appearance so that you can read fine text even at 1080i from 5-10 feet away. You will still have the same problems but your eyes won't be as strained from seeing it.

I would imagine running the game in an interlaced mode (1080i) would help, since you get frame blending but, in practice I don't think it makes much of a difference.

Not that it has anything to do with it but, if this is the set you mainly play games on then keep in mind the Xbox360 has a gamma problem so some games will never look correct. The PC and PS3 both use sRGB gamma curves where the Xbox360 does not as it uses what is called a "Piecewise sRGB" or it badly approximates sRGB.


You were RIGHT!!

I popped in COD4 and GT5 that run at 60fps on PS3 and the double imaging wasn't there!!

So why the heck are some 2011 games still being at crappy 30fps or below??

I can only pray that battlefield 3 will have a good framerate.

By the way I tried tuning in the focus...etc. but it didn't affect the ghosting on the lower fps games.
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post #2916 of 2962 Old 06-26-2011, 12:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark_Planet View Post


By the way I tried tuning in the focus...etc. but it didn't affect the ghosting on the lower fps games.

It won't really affect it as in remove it or reduce it, so to speak but, it can make it easier to digest and live with in my opinion.

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Originally Posted by fahrenheit View Post

On the super fine pitch capable models, 720p signals are downscaled to 540p.

My set will accept quite a few different signals from my PC and when I set my graphics card to NOT scale, 720p fills the screen properly. So when you say 540p I assume you mean 1280x540 pixels?

I can send an 1152x864 30Hz signal and I get black bars as I should with an 1152x864 pixel image projected inside a 1920x1080i frame.

I can also send an 1176x664 60hz signal and I also get black bars, as I should with 1176x664 pixels projected inside a 1280x720p frame.

I can also set my graphics card to scale and I can manually scale the horizontal and vertical pixels with a slider and 1280x720 fills the screen.
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post #2917 of 2962 Old 06-26-2011, 01:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NextGen View Post

My set will accept quite a few different signals from my PC and when I set my graphics card to NOT scale, 720p fills the screen properly. So when you say 540p I assume you mean 1280x540 pixels?

I can send an 1152x864 30Hz signal and I get black bars as I should with an 1152x864 pixel image projected inside a 1920x1080i frame.

I can also send an 1176x664 60hz signal and I also get black bars, as I should with 1176x664 pixels projected inside a 1280x720p frame.

I can also set my graphics card to scale and I can manually scale the horizontal and vertical pixels with a slider and 1280x720 fills the screen.

What you put in is definitely not what you get out.

My 36" could accept all of the resolutions you mentioned but when you actually feed a test pattern with alternating black and white (or black and yellow bee stripes), you get a muddy grey (or baby poo) amalgam.

If lines aren't being thrown out, then you should be able to make a 1280x720 bee stripe pattern (single pixel high horizontal stripes) and resolve every one of those unique lines.

It works with 1980x1080, but 720p never gave me all the lines.
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post #2918 of 2962 Old 06-26-2011, 09:07 PM
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Are there any techs within the Riverside/San Bernardino areas in So. California that do in-home repairs to these behemoth tvs?
Mine took a dive in '08 (power supply problems) and been idle since I bought a Pioneer Elite Pro-151D KURO plasma display to replace it with back then.

Would like to get it fixed if possible...

-thts
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post #2919 of 2962 Old 06-26-2011, 11:14 PM
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Today was the first day I watched a widescreen movie on my 34hs420 with blackbars (the island ) and I noticed the black bars looked sort of warped.

I made a picture of how it looks.

Is there an easy fix in the service menu?

I just need to bend the screen down instead of up so the bars can be straight.

UPDATE: I changed the VPIN settings and it made the bottom bar straight but it made the top bar warped.

It's not that big of a deal anyways....I will just live with it since most CRT's aren't perfect.


I put the VPIN settings back to default 24.

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post #2920 of 2962 Old 06-27-2011, 02:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark_Planet View Post

......Is there an easy fix in the service menu?

I just need to bend the screen down instead of up so the bars can be straight.

UPDATE: I changed the VPIN settings and it made the bottom bar straight but it made the top bar warped.

It's not that big of a deal anyways....I will just live with it since most CRT's aren't perfect.


I put the VPIN settings back to default 24.

You could try a combination of VCEN and VPIN.

Using VCEN: Adjust to make the bowing of the top and bottom lines equal.

Using VPIN: Adjust as necessary to make the horizontal lines as straight as possible.

Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin
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post #2921 of 2962 Old 06-28-2011, 01:07 PM
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^ That upward bow is fixable, but it'll probably require tweaking a few other controls than just VCEN and VPIN. If you want to go down that road, just say so. However, there's a chance it may foul up the geometry on some other signals.

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post #2922 of 2962 Old 07-16-2011, 04:21 PM
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Some patterns for geo adjustments in 720x480 NTSC DVD resolution.

Grid divided into 1/2's...

2.5% Overscan



5% Overscan



(Note: you must be logged in to see the attached images in these posts.)
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post #2923 of 2962 Old 07-16-2011, 04:23 PM
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Grid divided into 1/4's.

2.5% Overscan



5% Overscan


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post #2924 of 2962 Old 07-16-2011, 04:26 PM
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Grid divided into 1/8's.

~2.5% Overscan



5% Overscan


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post #2925 of 2962 Old 11-20-2011, 02:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fahrenheit View Post

On the super fine pitch capable models, 720p signals are downscaled to 540p.

The main advantage with using 720p sources is if the content is 50/60fps. You lose resolution by choosing 720p over 1080i, but you retain framerate.

Some other CRT TV manufacturers choose to upconvert 720p signals to 1080i, which keeps resolution at the expense of framerate (because you can't resolve 50/60 full frames per second with an interlaced source.

Old post I know and sorry for the bump but, does the information get thrown out or somehow resampled? Just asking because 720p pc games seem to get an antoaliasing benefit and keep very fine detail. Its a win win situation.

And where can I get a beestripe pattern or what does one look like ao I could make one myself
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post #2926 of 2962 Old 12-08-2011, 04:32 PM
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NextGen,

FWIW, my 34XBR800 converts 720p inputs to 1080i, not 540p.

There are different ways of scaling images, and I'm not quite sure how the Sony CRTs do it. There are various interpolation and resampling techniques that can be used though, so the extra lines don't simply have to be discarded when downscaling. Some examples here...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image_scaling

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post #2927 of 2962 Old 01-05-2012, 02:11 AM
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I don't suppose anyone knows why my CRT wont remember any changes when I adjust the screen position, ie height, width etc. It remembers them when I put it in standby, but when I switch off completely it forgets them.

The model is a SONY KV-16WS1U
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post #2928 of 2962 Old 01-07-2012, 08:51 PM
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^Not familiar with your model, but after making changes in the SM on my Sony HDTV, I also need to press a combination of keys on the remote to SAVE/STORE the new settings.

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post #2929 of 2962 Old 01-14-2012, 04:29 PM
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Following are a new set of grids for making geometry adjustments.

Instead of a black background, these new patterns use a 15% gray background to better approximate the average picture level (APL) of video over time. This should slightly improve the accuracy of pincushion, and also horizontal and vertical sizing adjustments for typical video content.

Overscan

The patterns can also be used for overscan adjustment, if you want a 2.5% or 5% overscan.

(Minor Note: The 2.5% overscan pattern that's divided into 8ths is not quite as accurate for overscan adjustment as the other patterns because there was no way to perfectly divide the width of the image by 8, and leave an exact 2.5% on the sides. Consequently, it's probably closer to 2.75% or 3% on the sides.)

Surround Reference

Used properly, the patterns can also function as a crude ambient/surround reference for high-quality home video content (Blu-ray, DVD, OTA broadcasts, etc.). For direct-view displays in the Region 1 US market*, I generally recommend surround levels in the 13% to 20% gray range for best viewing, with 15% being about the average for well-mastered DVDs & Blu-rays. (*Video content in other parts of the world may be brighter.) An easy way to accommplish that is to adjust the Picture/Contrast control on your display so that a full field gray pattern in that range approximates the average surround levels in the room around and behind the TV. Calibration discs can be very handy for this kind of thing. The better ones should include full field gray patterns which increase in steps of 5% or 10%.

There's alot of variation in video content these days though, which is why I try to accomodate a range of adjustment on my TV between about 13% to 20%. Most professionally mastered/color-corrected video content in the US is on the darker side. IMO, a 15% gray is a pretty good target reference for that.

However, games, commercials, music videos, anime (Japanese animation), and older NTSC material can be considerably brighter, and quite a strain on the eyes to watch with such dark surround levels. So something closer to a 20% (or even brighter) gray surround reference would not be unreasonable for such material.

If you also use your display as a computer or web interface, then you may need to accomodate an even wider range of contrast adjustment. The APL of computer content is about 35%, and the sRGB standard (which is basically now the "official" color space of the web) uses a "gray world" assumption for it's viewing environment, which is essentially the brightness of a 50% gray on your screen. For optimum viewing of computer and web content, the Picture/Contrast setting on your display (or the room lighting) should be adjusted so that a 35% to 50% full field gray on the screen is a close match to your room lighting levels.

Again, you should be able to find full field gray patterns like these on many of the popular calibration discs (or you could just make your own with Photoshop or some other paint program). In the final analysis though, your eyes are really the best judge. So if the picture seems too bright (or dark) with the above rules of thumb, then you should turn the contrast down.

"Full-Swing" Vs. "Studio-Swing" Levels

There are two versions of the grid patterns posted below. The first series uses 0-255 "full-swing" RGB levels. And the second series is compressed to 16-235 "studio-swing" RGB levels. For geometry adjustments, they should both work about the same.

If you want to get picky though... then the correct set to use depends on how you display the images on your TV. I usually convert the patterns to a standard MPEG-2 DVD-Video format (which is why they're all in 720x480 NTSC DVD-Video resolution). And the software that I use to encode the files into DVD-Video compliant MPEG-2 automatically compresses the palette in the images to 16-235 video levels (which is what commercial video DVDs use). So I feed the MPEG encoding software patterns and images authored in 0-255 full-swing levels to ensure proper output levels on my TV. Other MPEG/DVD authoring programs may work differently though, and give you different options for compressing the video levels.

IMO, properly converting the patterns to the DVD-Video format is probably the most reliable way to go. If you simply display them as still files (JPEG, etc.) from a flash drive or disc, then the results may be less predictable, and you'll need to pay closer attention to black level settings (and possibly other image display settings) on both your player and TV to ensure that they display at the correct levels.

If you are trying to use them as an surround reference, then the correct output levels are important. If you are just using them for geometry adjustments though, then the difference should be more negligible.

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post #2930 of 2962 Old 01-14-2012, 04:33 PM
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2.5% Overscan, 0-255 "Full-Swing" Levels, Part 1:






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post #2931 of 2962 Old 01-14-2012, 04:35 PM
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2.5% Overscan, 0-255 "Full-Swing" Levels, Part 2:






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post #2932 of 2962 Old 01-14-2012, 04:38 PM
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5% Overscan, 0-255 "Full-Swing" Levels, Part 1:






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post #2933 of 2962 Old 01-14-2012, 04:39 PM
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5% Overscan, 0-255 "Full-Swing" Levels, Part 2:






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post #2934 of 2962 Old 01-14-2012, 04:42 PM
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2.5% Overscan, 16-235 "Studio-Swing" Levels, Part 1:






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post #2935 of 2962 Old 01-14-2012, 04:44 PM
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2.5% Overscan, 16-235 "Studio-Swing" Levels, Part 2:






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post #2936 of 2962 Old 01-14-2012, 04:45 PM
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5% Overscan, 16-235 "Studio-Swing" Levels, Part 1:






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post #2937 of 2962 Old 01-14-2012, 04:47 PM
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5% Overscan, 16-235 "Studio-Swing" Levels, Part 2:






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post #2938 of 2962 Old 01-18-2012, 06:59 AM
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I've got a few questions I hope someone can answer about these Sony codes:

1) Is it possible to enable PiP or 480p mode (for a few, or maybe some, many, most ?) Sony TVs using these codes if the TV did not come from the factory as a model that was capable of PiP or 480p?

2) I have a KV-36FS10 that was bought I think in late 1999 or early 2000. Will any of these codes (or generally, anything in this huge thread) be useful or applicable to that TV?
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post #2939 of 2962 Old 01-20-2012, 09:43 PM
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^ I'm havin a hard time finding info on this model (36FS10). Is it an HD or SD tube?

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post #2940 of 2962 Old 01-21-2012, 10:57 AM
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Quote:
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^ I'm havin a hard time finding info on this model (36FS10). Is it an HD or SD tube?

It's a 36" Trinitron WEGA (flat-tube). If you do a google search for "KV-36FS10" I'm sure you'll get lots of hits.

This might be a Canadian model number. It was bought in Canada. I *think* it's one model level down from XBR (I think it cost a few hundred dollars less than the equivalent XBR model). It was made in September 1999. These are not hi-def TV's. 4:3 ratio, 480 lines.

I think the equivalent XBR model had PiP, 480P mode, and 3-line comb filter.

Here's a Sony link for it:

http://esupport.sony.com/CA/perl/mod...l?mdl=KV36FS10

These models are closely related to it:

KV-36FV15
KV-36XBR250

Those models have something called "S-Link" that my model doesn't.
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