The OFFICIAL Sony KD-34XBR970 34" HDTV Thread... - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 3291 Old 04-13-2006, 07:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SurfingMatt27 View Post

there sony!!!!! they could put their name on anything they want and claim it's superior just because of the sony label.

They have been doing this for years.

Well, with their patented Trinitron Tube design (Aperture Grill instead of a Shadow Mask), they have produced superior DV CRT sets for quite a few years. In this case, it wasn't hype, though with other CE, it may have been.
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post #182 of 3291 Old 04-14-2006, 08:13 AM
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I know that i just wanted to point out sony in general usually in other areas of the market they are pricier.
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post #183 of 3291 Old 04-14-2006, 11:44 AM
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I just got a Toshiba 30HFX85 (Cinema Series). The initial reason I went with it was I felt 30" was better size, weight difference, and $300 price difference vs the new 970XBR.

However, I am deeply disappointed with the picture - particualrly s-video input which is about 85% of my viewing. Even nearly DVD quality SD signal via S-video is terrible to me.

I have a Sony 30-XBR910 (2yr old) which does much better with the same material.

So I am on the edge here about returning the Toshiba and getting a XBR970. I know how bad I think the Toshiba is, but I don't know how much better the XBR970 is considering the Tube and other factors which brought the price down to $1200.

Any thoughts, thanks.
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post #184 of 3291 Old 04-14-2006, 12:08 PM
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Well basically the XBR970 is a rebadged HS420 with an HD tuner.

If it was up to me i would'nt pick neither!

I would look into the Sony 30xs955 or a Panasonic 30" HDTV.
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post #185 of 3291 Old 04-14-2006, 12:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oryan_dunn View Post

As far as you are concerned yes, but as far as a CRT is concerned no. Since a CRT only draws half the 1080 lines at once (hence the i) it is scanning 540 lines every 1/60th of a second (540p). Its just that every frame alternates which of the 1080 lines are drawn, odd or even.

This is patently untrue.

An interlaced display is not drawing the same lines every 60th of a second, which is far afield from how we define progressive scan. A set employing progressive scan, draws "every line" (in each frame) 60 times per second. This is what is meant by progressive scanning with today's HD sets.

An interlaced display draws "half" of all the lines each "field," 30 times per second, and then draws the other "half" of all the lines 30 times per second in sequencial fashion. Each frame consisting of "all" the lines is drawn 30 times per second. Because of the phosphor's unique quality of persistence, the first field's lines remain mostly illuminated while the second field's lines are being drawn, giving the illusion of 1080 lines being drawn 30 times per second.

Today's PG sets draw all lines 60 times persecond, not half the lines 30 times per second, nor all the lines 30 times per second. These formats are very, very different.
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post #186 of 3291 Old 04-14-2006, 01:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SurfingMatt27 View Post

Well basically the XBR970 is a rebadged HS420 with an HD tuner.

If it was up to me i would'nt pick neither!

I would look into the Sony 30xs955 or a Panasonic 30" HDTV.

I absolutely understand what you are saying, its just that I want a CRT and I will not pay more than the XBR970 costs...so I realize how limited my options are.

So the question boils down to whether the 34HS420 was substantially better than the 30HFX85 is.
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post #187 of 3291 Old 04-14-2006, 02:32 PM
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Are you gonna go off of your manual when its there in black and white? Or go off of people that didnt make the tv or the manual and just post speculations and "there own opinions". Not trying to start a war or anything. I tend to believe a manual in black and white that says so is right more than people. If it isnt right. Its a huge misprint on sonys part and misleading.

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Originally Posted by Dregan View Post

Yes i understand the whole native thing, i would just perfer to play in 720p over 1080i, i was just missled into thinkign it could display 720p since it says it does. I thought only fixed pixel displays needed to be fed there native rez . I guess im just use to computer crt screens that dont have this problem, you can feed them anything you want that it supports and it dosent upscale anything, and i just kinda figured crt tv's would be the same way, and there not i guess. I Did however read a few magazines that some tube based crt hdtv can display 720p and 1080i but very few. and i was just hoping this tv would be one of them was all. Since it was documented in the manual. Im still looking foward to getting my tv and im sure ill love it, im jsut disapointed i wont be able to play games in a smooth 60fps progressive display.

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post #188 of 3291 Old 04-14-2006, 02:36 PM
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You sure it isnt the other way around?

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Originally Posted by gamegod2x View Post

But in 1080i the text doesnt look as sharp as it does in 720p when im using the xbox.

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post #189 of 3291 Old 04-14-2006, 02:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTiVo View Post

I absolutely understand what you are saying, its just that I want a CRT and I will not pay more than the XBR970 costs...so I realize how limited my options are.

So the question boils down to whether the 34HS420 was substantially better than the 30HFX85 is.

I think I want to expand that to considering the 4X3 36XS955 and 32XS945.

Besides the obvious size/price/weight/ difference between those two, the 955 seems to offer SFP, but the 945 offers the HiScan Trinitron. Again I am stuck weighing giving up SFP.
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post #190 of 3291 Old 04-14-2006, 03:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justsc View Post

This is patently untrue.

An interlaced display is not drawing the same lines every 60th of a second, which is far afield from how we define progressive scan. A set employing progressive scan, draws "every line" (in each frame) 60 times per second. This is what is meant by progressive scanning with today's HD sets.

An interlaced display draws "half" of all the lines each "field," 30 times per second, and then draws the other "half" of all the lines 30 times per second in sequencial fashion. Each frame consisting of "all" the lines is drawn 30 times per second. Because of the phosphor's unique quality of persistence, the first field's lines remain mostly illuminated while the second field's lines are being drawn, giving the illusion of 1080 lines being drawn 30 times per second.

Today's PG sets draw all lines 60 times persecond, not half the lines 30 times per second, nor all the lines 30 times per second. These formats are very, very different.

Everything you said is true. But it does agree with what I said. A CRT TV operates at 60Hz regardless if the signal is interlaced or progressive ( a crt pc monitor can sync to any frequency). So the scan rate for a 1080i and 540p are the same, hence a 720p signal is a higher frequency scan rate than 1080i, therefore, more demanding of a CRT.

I think if we want to continue to discuss the technicalities of this subject, we should continue in a new thread, instead of taking over the Sony thread.

Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today. Teach a man to fish; and you have fed him for a lifetime
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post #191 of 3291 Old 04-14-2006, 04:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTiVo View Post

So the question boils down to whether the 34HS420 was substantially better than the 30HFX85 is.

Yes.

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post #192 of 3291 Old 04-15-2006, 08:54 PM
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I mistakenly posted this in the 960 thread. So now I am putting it in the right place.
Sorry

I have followed this thread with great interest and had decided that a CRT was what I wanted. Today I got a chance to go to the big city and actually compare the 970 to other LCDs, Plasmas and rear projection. I was extremely dissapointed. I even asked the sales person if maybe the 970 was not recieving the HD signal. It was! PQ is not a lot better than the 32" 5 year old Wega that I have now. Maybe the 960 was all that but the 970 certainly is not. The Sony SXRD 42" rear projection blew it away. It is entirely possible that something was indeed amiss with the way they had the 970 set up.
I definitely ruled it out of my hunt.
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post #193 of 3291 Old 04-16-2006, 08:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aztecian View Post

I mistakenly posted this in the 960 thread. So now I am putting it in the right place.
Sorry

I replied to your post in that thread, but perhaps you missed it so here is a copy of the text:

Almost assuredly there was a problem with their set-up in some way. A 970 with a HD signal will look much better than an old SD Wega, and IMO no worse than any of the other formats you mentioned. Now if you are comparing SD, it's probably a toss up with your Wega. My old 27" FV Wega looked pretty good with SD, but that's due in part to the size. If you look at a .4" by .6" thumbnail of a digital picture it looks pretty good. If you take those same pixels and view them at 4" by 6" it'll look like cr*p. I've yet to see any HD set that can make SD look as good as my 32" XBR did.

If you really want to get a true idea of the PQ, and the sales staff is willing, have them hook up a known good tap and then use some of the video settings from Sony owners threads for the similar models. I've found that customers (and staff) usually have display models set to "blinding", "washed out" and "red push".

That said, I love my 960 and I believe the PQ is superior to my Mother's Sony 42" plasma and the 50" SXRD she just bought, although I will admit to some desire to buy a 60" SXRD just for movies.

Where did you see a 42" SXRD, I didn't think such a thing existed? Perhaps you meant the 50".
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post #194 of 3291 Old 04-16-2006, 08:24 AM
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Last time I was at Best Buy they had a 50" SXRD and XBR960 close enough to where you could see both sets at that same time,both were running the same HD feed and I must say SXRD is very impressive technology, It had an overall sharpness/detail and vibrancy the 960 just couldn't match.
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post #195 of 3291 Old 04-16-2006, 08:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathesar View Post

Last time I was at Best Buy they had a 50" SXRD and XBR960 close enough to where you could see both sets at that same time,both were running the same HD feed and I must say SXRD is very impressive technology, It had an overall sharpness/detail and vibrancy the 960 just couldn't match.

Yeah, but what about SD material (the majority of the material today) - I bet the 960 would be better in that case.
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post #196 of 3291 Old 04-16-2006, 09:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammerli View Post

I
Where did you see a 42" SXRD, I didn't think such a thing existed? Perhaps you meant the 50".

My mistake. I have just started to get my arms around all of the nomenclature and a place such as Circuit City with over a hundred displays just adds to the confusion.
The 42" I was actually comparing the 970 to was the KDF-E42A10. Non SXRD 3LCD technology. It did in every way blow away the PQ of the 970. I did grab the remote for the 970 and ran it through the various default settings. It was set for Vivid but even when standard or movie was selected it still didn't compare to the A10. As you say it could have been some other issue with the way it was getting its signal or something deeper in the setup. The picture was clear so it wasn't an obvious signal issue.
By next spring when the family financial officer finally approves this purchase I'll know exactly what I want.
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post #197 of 3291 Old 04-18-2006, 03:31 PM
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Just my luck I start researching widescreen CRT's and come to find the very desirable 34XBR960's are on their way out and my local retailers (Best Buy & Circuit City) are all sold out. My question is this... What are the noticeable differences between the picture quality of a 34XBR960 and the 34XBR970? Please resist any urges to speculate I'm looking for real world encounters with the 34XBR970. I have seen it myself and was impressed. However I have not seen the 960, so I cannot make a comparison. The lack of firewire, cablecard, etc. does not bother me. It is only the PQ I'm concerned with.

Thanks in advance.
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post #198 of 3291 Old 04-20-2006, 05:29 PM
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As long as you never see the 960 in action, then you will probably love the PQ of the 970.

That said, if you see them side by side, there is a noticable difference. The SFP makes a big difference.
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post #199 of 3291 Old 04-21-2006, 08:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Q of BanditZ View Post

Yes.

What is this opinion based on?

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post #200 of 3291 Old 04-21-2006, 08:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick0725 View Post

ready for my take.

did you ever see the space in dave letterman's front teeth.

And compare it to someone who wore braces.

teeth close together.


Thats the diff between the 970 and 960.

What?! That does'nt even make sense.

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post #201 of 3291 Old 04-22-2006, 08:03 AM
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no one was able to verified if the sony xbr 970 has the superfine pitch or not. So far we have been getting conflicting opinions.
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post #202 of 3291 Old 04-22-2006, 10:25 AM
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THe 970 does not have the superfine pitch tube.

It's PQ is simialr to the sony 34hs420.
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post #203 of 3291 Old 04-22-2006, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by julio388 View Post

no one was able to verified if the sony xbr 970 has the superfine pitch or not. So far we have been getting conflicting opinions.

The 970 does not have Sony's SFP tube.

As Matt says, the 970 is essentially the 34HS420, which both Matt and I have. It is a wonderful HD set with a superb picture, just less resolution than the 960 with the SFP tube.

So, why didn't Sony just leave the HS420 the way it was? The laws associated with the digital television transition mandated that such size sets include digital tuners by March of this year. Since it seems the XS/XBR line with the SFP tube have been discontinued (except for the 36" model?), Sony decided to keep the XBR moniker alive by painting the 34HS420 darker, including a digital tuner, input memory and improved DRC. I call the 970 an XBR wannabee. The XBR has always stood for the best of the best, and folks paid a severe premium for the quality and the name. There is nothing "exclusive" about the new 970, and IMHO it serves to degrade the vaunted XBR tag.

That said, if the 970 has as good picture quality/fidelity as the 34HS420, it is still a very good HDTV and at its current price a very good value.
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post #204 of 3291 Old 04-23-2006, 12:12 PM
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Well I have to agree that it's misleading to call this the XBR 970, since normally the higher the number in the XBR line..... the better the features and the television.

I have the 34xbr800, which was replaced with the SFP tube XBR 910/960.

This certainly isn't better then the 960.

In Sony circles, we say that XBR stands for Xtra Bucks Required.


As I posted earlier, my friend got his a couple weeks ago and has been enjoying it a lot.


But..... he's already run into his first problem with it.

Sometimes the screen will flash completely black for about 1-2 seconds and return to normal. We thought it might be his Xbox 360 he's been playing on it most of the time, but he also saw it happen while watching cable TV through the HDMI port. So it's certainly the set.


He says it only seems to happen once the set has warmed up after a few hours of use and is completely random. In 12 hours of play yesterday, it happened to him only twice. But other times it's happened once every hour or two. Doesn't make a lot of sense.


It might be a problem with the the XBR 970 model......but I suspect it's just a case of him getting one of the bad ones as is the case with all electronics that have a certain percentage of defective ones. I think the industry average is about a 5%-6% failure rate.


So I certainly wouldn't be getting scared about buying the model unless boatloads of people start reporting the problem.


He's got a 3 year in-home extended service contract..... so he should have it resolved soon. If they can't fix it, they will just replace it. Simple as that.


It's lucky it's just a 1-2 second black screen problem that only comes up once in awhile. He can handle that no prob in the meantime. Better then the colors going wacked or major screen distortions.

Until I see a reason otherwise, I'd still say it's a good set for the price.

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post #205 of 3291 Old 04-23-2006, 12:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GS kid View Post

...But..... he's already run into his first problem with it.

Sometimes the screen will flash completely black for about 1-2 seconds and return to normal. We thought it might be his Xbox 360 he's been playing on it most of the time, but he also saw it happen while watching cable TV through the HDMI port. So it's certainly the set.


He says it only seems to happen once the set has warmed up after a few hours of use and is completely random. In 12 hours of play yesterday, it happened to him only twice. But other times it's happened once every hour or two. Doesn't make a lot of sense.


It might be a problem with the the XBR 970 model......but I suspect it's just a case of him getting one of the bad ones as is the case with all electronics that have a certain percentage of defective ones. I think the industry average is about a 5%-6% failure rate.


So I certainly wouldn't be getting scared about buying the model unless boatloads of people start reporting the problem.


He's got a 3 year in-home extended service contract..... so he should have it resolved soon. If they can't fix it, they will just replace it. Simple as that.


It's lucky it's just a 1-2 second black screen problem that only comes up once in awhile. He can handle that no prob in the meantime. Better then the colors going wacked or major screen distortions.

Until I see a reason otherwise, I'd still say it's a good set for the price.

FWIW, I have not seen this happen on my 34HS420.
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post #206 of 3291 Old 04-23-2006, 05:56 PM
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neither have i, seems odd that your screen would turn black, maybe it's a faulty tuner in the tv losing the signal?
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post #207 of 3291 Old 04-24-2006, 04:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SurfingMatt27 View Post

neither have i, seems odd that your screen would turn black, maybe it's a faulty tuner in the tv losing the signal?


It can't be the tuner since it's doing this on the component input for the Xbox 360 and the HDMI input that the HDTV cable box is on. He doesn't use it's built-in digital tuner.

So it has something to do with the television's display circuitry, not it's tuner.

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post #208 of 3291 Old 04-24-2006, 10:01 AM
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I finally saw the 970 in action at CC this weekend. Considering what it is now selling against in the retail market, I thought it was really quite slick. Certainly the best tube picture they had in the store.

('course, I also saw an SXRD, and that was so purty, it made me cry!)
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post #209 of 3291 Old 04-24-2006, 10:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jobi wan kenobi View Post

I finally saw the 970 in action at CC this weekend. Considering what it is now selling against in the retail market, I thought it was really quite slick. Certainly the best tube picture they had in the store.

('course, I also saw an SXRD, and that was so purty, it made me cry!)

This is good. It's nice to have actual observations.

I have an idea this is how it's going to be with the 970. All the talk about it not having the SFP tube, and being undeserving of the XBR badge was important to work out. But in all of that, I believe the 970 gained what is probably and unfair bad reputation.

I have the 34HS420, which predated the 970, and it's an exceptional television. It's not an XBR nor an XS, but it's still a very good HD set. And, unless they screwed something up in turning the HS420 into the XBR970, this new 970 should also be very good. And most probably the best 34" crt around, maybe even the best crt period, unless a SFP tube can still be found.

It would be great to get more inputs from those that own or have seen the 970 personally.
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post #210 of 3291 Old 04-25-2006, 06:50 AM
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Hey all~I'm new here but would like to share my own 2 cents on the set after having seen it at several local stores. I don't claim to be an expert or even particularly knowledgeable but I HAVE been looking at sets for many months now and have been very picky about picture quality in particular.

I'd wanted to get either a 960 or 955 but they were no longer available in my area so I waited patiently for the 970 to hit the shelves.

Our local Circuit City had one set up a couple of weeks ago and I was totally impressed with the PQ: I couldn't see any vertical or horizontal lines and the blacks were deep and the colors rich; I took the remote and turned the sharpness all the way up and the picture was still smooth and pure with no distortion around the edges or anything else which would detract from the PQ. Bear in mind now that the HD signal they had running was something with little action so I couldn't honestly say how it would do with high motion scenes or SDTV.

We went to our local Sears a couple of nights ago and they still had a 960 (floor model only at FULL price!) set up and only a few feet away was the 970;
While this may have not been a literal side-by-side comparison (since there were about 4 other sets and several feet in between) it was still easy enough to examine one set for several minutes and then go back to the other for comparison.

I honestly could not see any significant difference in the PQ between the two sets. I spent a good half of an hour going from one to the other and back again but to my eyes they were essentially the same. I might even say that the 970 seemed to have a slightly brighter picture but that could obviously just be a matter of adjustment.

My wife was with me and after going back and forth several times and looking at the picture from up close as well as several feet away she couldn't see any difference either.

In the end my feeling was that if there is any difference in PQ it is so slight that I just couldn't see it and whatever that very slight difference might be it certainly would not be worth half again the price to me.

Some of the missing features (cable card, PIP etc) are not things that I'm interested in so for just a hair over $1000 (on promo) this set has everything in terms of picture quality and connectivity that I liked about the previous 2 high end CRTs that Sony made.

I've made my mind up and plan to pick one up next week from Sears.
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