Vertical shadow-like streaks on the inside of 36XS955 tube - Part II: Replaced tube! - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 40 Old 11-04-2006, 02:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Hello all.

I started a previous thread on this issue before (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=708443), but here's a new one for the latest update. I'm at my wit's end, and I really need some feedback.

I bought a 36XS955 TV through Amazon a few months ago, and promptly discovered what I would describe as vertical shadow-like "streaks" on the inside of the screen, only visible in bright scenes or on screens of mostly one color. I use the TV mostly for gaming, and pretty much any time you rotate the camera around, these "streaks" are horrendously evident. They're also quite visible during certain panning shots in DVDs.

Anyway, after much hassle with various service companies (Amazon wouldn't take it back, it's in the fine print), I finally got Sony to more or less force one to come out and replace the tube at my house (previously they'd said they'd only do if I brought the TV in myself -- an impossibility for me).

So they replaced the tube. Today in fact. Took them over three hours. I watched the whole thing. It was quite the spectacle (the set is on the second floor). And unless these guys were Sigfried and Roy in disguise, they definitely put in a new tube. And guess what?

The "streaks" are still there. WTF.

The main guy, who was very nice, said all the 36XS955s probably have this problem, and nobody notices because they aren't as picky as me. Please. *Everybody* sees these marks the second I point them out. There's no way this would fly on every single one of these sets. So, my question:

Could something else be causing the issue? A circuit board or something? The service guy swears no, but I wonder. The yolk maybe? (I have no idea what this is.) Or is it possible my luck is so awful that I've gotten yet another bad tube that happens to have the exact same problem? Is it caused by uneven phosphor distribution on the inside of the tube? (I've heard this theory once before on here.)

And what are my options now? I don't want Sony to bully this company into coming out yet again to replace yet another tube when that might not even be the problem. This TV has been such a headache since I bought it, I really wish I'd went another way. I'd appreciate any thoughts. Thanks.
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post #2 of 40 Old 11-05-2006, 11:22 AM
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Your problem is quite possibly some sort of radiance problem in the deflection circuit, the video circuitry or somewhere in between. It also sounds like the CRT replacement was a stop gap measure by Sony to calm you down. Unfortunately, trying to find a problem like this is virtually impossible in a shop let alone in your home by a field tech. This sounds more like a deal for Sony engineering. You're going to have to work with Sony consumer service and try and get some boards replaced in that set to solve this one.
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post #3 of 40 Old 11-05-2006, 12:25 PM - Thread Starter
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One thing I'm concerned about is that now I'm outside the three months labor warranty. (Even though it's the same problem that has yet to be fixed -- in spite of replacing the tube -- that I called about when I was still well within the warranty.)
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post #4 of 40 Old 11-05-2006, 06:43 PM
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your problem has been logged with Sony when it was within the warranty. You've had a couple Sony Authorized service people actually see the problem. Get on Sony's butt on this one. They're usually pretty good at resolving issues like this.
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post #5 of 40 Old 11-06-2006, 12:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Okay.

Called Sony today. The lady was very nice. I told her I didn't want to deal with the last company who replaced the tube, so she said I should call some more places to try to get this resolved (I still had some numbers of Sony-authorized centers I've yet to call). And the labor is still under warranty because the original problem was logged within three months and it's been less than one month since the "fix". I've called two more places and booked them for the same day -- a week from today -- one in the morning, one in the afternoon.

This will be the sixth and seventh service call from the fourth and fifth company respectively.

Oh yeah, also, the geometry and convergence on the new tube is awful. My last tube was shockingly close to perfect in these regards out of the box... and yet I traded it for one that still has the streaks, but now has a warped middle and blurry left and right sides. Ugh. Hopefully this gets worked out before I go insane.
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post #6 of 40 Old 11-15-2006, 12:58 PM
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I also own a 36XS955 and see very faint vertical "streaks" on the inside of the glass under similar situations. I've had the set for about two weeks. Any update regarding this?

They are invisible for 90% of the content I watch, but are painfully obvious in the latter 10%. The Legend of Zelda: The Windwaker seems to be good test material. The solid colors make the streaks easy to see on camera pans.

Please keep us updated on the progress of your replacement. I'm interested to see if this is common to all 36XS955 sets or a select few bad tubes. Best of luck!
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post #7 of 40 Old 11-15-2006, 02:20 PM
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I have the 34xs955 and have the vertical streaks toward the right side of the tube. I watch a lot of HD hockey, and with the white background it is noticable. As a matter of fact, when I first purchased the TV, I had to send it back because the problem was quite severe. The replacement set wan not bad at all, but it is still noticable under the right conditions.

Before I even bought the 34xs955, I had the KW34HD1. It was a high def model from the year 2000. It also had the vertical streak (more in the middle of the tube).

I've had a service tech come out and look at my current TV, and he said that what I was seeing was normal. In fact, it was better than almost any xs955 he had seen.

This "problem" must be a part of most of these TV's. I'd really like to see one without the streaks. I almost think that if someone says that they don't have that issue, they don't know what they are looking at because I've seen it on three tubes already.

By the way, I have a 36 inch trinitron (non-HD) as well. I don't see any streaking on that TV>
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post #8 of 40 Old 11-15-2006, 03:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Wow. Thanks, guys. I was beginning to think I was the only one in the world with this problem.

hakujin, I agree Wind Waker is excellent test material. I still need to finish that game before TP, and I can't bear to because the horrible streaks are so distracting any time I rotate the camera.

Kona1, that is discouraging that you think this indeed might be all of these sets. This is what a couple techs have told me, but I scoffed. I find it hard to believe anyone even slightly concerned with image quality would find this acceptable. Yes, it's more visible in videogames, or during anime which is usually more replete with screens of mostly one color, but it's also noticeable at times in normal DVD viewing. During Lost, for example, pretty much any time it shows the ocean, and the camera moves, the streaks are visible.

If this was present in all of these sets, wouldn't there be *some* people complaining about the problem in forums like these *somewhere* on the internet? Because I've done all kinds of searches and this is the FIRST time I've read anything from anyone else verifying the same problem.

[Edit]: Kona1, I also have a 36" SD Trinitron (the 36XBR250), and it also doesn't have the "streaks". Could this just be an HD thing?

I almost want to start a poll for the users of the SFP tube to try a test to determine if everyone has these streaks. But not everybody has videogame consoles, and I can't come up with a suitable test that everyone will be able to try.
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post #9 of 40 Old 11-15-2006, 04:28 PM - Thread Starter
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The more I think about it, the more I'm inclined to believe this CAN'T be a universal issue on all of these sets. I don't watch sports, but millions of people do. Like you said, you see the streaks clearly during hockey. I'd guess they're nearly as clear when watching baseball or football, with all the predominantly green screens displayed for this material. With all the picky people out there (far pickier than me), and on this site in particular, how come virtually nodoby has complained about this? In the official KD-36XS955 thread, I couldn't find a single mention of it. Even when I brought it up... crickets.

Unless I just suck at searching. Let me know if you guys have any better luck.
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post #10 of 40 Old 11-15-2006, 06:08 PM
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I am just curious, do you have a center channel speaker on top of the TV? I had to raise my speaker off the TV about a foot so get rid of this banding that would radiate downward during high volume scenes.
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post #11 of 40 Old 11-15-2006, 08:20 PM
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post #12 of 40 Old 11-16-2006, 01:06 AM
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Mortaldivine: yes that is exactly the issue I have.

jpl3447: This isn't a symptom of magnetic interference. It isn't a distortion of the signal, or any sort of banding. Pretend that the inside of the glass is coated in a thin powder layer. Now pretend like someone took a cloth and wiped gently on the powder in a vertical pattern as illustrated by Mortaldivine's picture. (see his thread) The image is clear, there are just faint streaks where the screen isn't as bright. It looks almost dirty under full white scenes.

Compass: I will be in contact with Sony tomorrow. Surely more of the XS955 users (960 users too - they use the same tubes!) would have reported this issue if it was widespread. Please keep us updated with any progress.
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post #13 of 40 Old 11-16-2006, 08:33 AM
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I do not have any magnetic interference with my TV. No center channel, or close speakers. The effect is only on the right hand side of the tube. From the edge to approximately 6 inches inward. It totally looks like how "hakujin" described; a dirty glass on the inside that has been smeared vertically. Only that the smear is almost perfectly straight up and down, so it probably isn't really a smear.

I watch a lot of football and other sports too. It is not noticeable on football games because the background is rather dark. But, if the background is a very light color such as the ice in a hockey game, or skiing, etc., and the camera is panning, the the effect is quite noticeable.

Watch the "Italian Job" sometime. When they are out on the mountain after their big heist at the beginning of the movie, the camera pans and the effect is quite noticeable.

I like the idea of a poll on this one. No smearing on standard def Sonys, but smearing on the high def Sonys, or at least the ones with SFP tubes.
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post #14 of 40 Old 12-16-2006, 11:23 AM
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Anyone find out anymore info about this?
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post #15 of 40 Old 12-17-2006, 01:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Everyone that came to my house was incompetent. I eventually gave up after the seventh visit. I couldn't keep taking time off from work. I have no way of knowing for sure if it's all the SFP tubes, but it doesn't really matter at this point for me as my warranty is long expired. I'm going to try to sell the set at a loss. I just haven't gotten around to it yet. I'm honest, though, so I'll be upfront about the problem with prospective buyers. As such, I'm not sure how much I can even expect to get (or if anybody will want the TV once they see the streaks). I was playing Wind Waker tonight and had to stop, the goddamn streaks were so bothersome.

This all really sucks, though. I've always been a big fan of CRT and Sony's TVs in general. Not sure where to go from here. The 34" 970s are too small for me since the majority of my playing is still 4:3 (although, I checked out a 970 at BB the other day, and it definitely did not have the streaks). Maybe I'll hang in there for SED.
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post #16 of 40 Old 12-19-2006, 11:19 AM
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I would tend to believe it has something to do with the application of the phosphors on the SFP tubes. I am very critical when it comes to examining CRT's and I do not recall seeing that problem on any of the HS420 models.
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post #17 of 40 Old 12-19-2006, 11:27 AM
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Would somebody move the image from mortaldivine's original post? I can't view it. I can get to the post in the archive2.avsforum.com, but it says I can't view it without logging in - but I'm logged in. Perhaps because I'm still a "new member." At any rate, can somebody move the pic? I'd like to see it. Others might also not be able to view it...

Much appreciated.
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post #18 of 40 Old 12-19-2006, 11:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G-Bull View Post

Would somebody move the image from mortaldivine's original post?

As Requested
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post #19 of 40 Old 12-20-2006, 07:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hakujin. View Post

As Requested

Thank you, hakujin. I was hoping it would be an actual photo, so I'd know what to look for on my own TV. I've got a xbr970 (not a SFP) so apparently the problem doesn't occur on my TV, but I thought if I knew what to look for, I might be able to make a closer inspection to verify whether it affects more than just the SFPs...
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post #20 of 40 Old 12-20-2006, 06:20 PM - Thread Starter
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It would be difficult if not impossible to photograph the effect. Just put up some light colored material and move it left and right. You'll see it immediately if your set suffers from the affliction.

soloist3, I agree. After much scrutinization, I've also come to the conclusion that the problem is indeed related to the phosphor distribution on the inside of the tube glass (or whatever they do to the glass before sealing it up in the tube). The effect is indentical to if the inside of the tube was simply dirty. I can't believe something like this would have made it into so many sets. But I will be even more surprised to hear it's ALL of the SFPs, as this would have resulted in massive amounts of internet message board posts. I've been watching Hi-Def KOCE the last couple days (public television channel), and the problem is noticeable in half of their shows (education stuff is rife with panning geography and sky shots).
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post #21 of 40 Old 12-21-2006, 11:53 AM
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lol, i see this alot on my KV30HS, specially when watching Hockey..... thjought it was just an issue side effect of the Pixels Dot pitch changing as the picture moves towards the edge of the screen.

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post #22 of 40 Old 12-21-2006, 04:22 PM - Thread Starter
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What kind of TV is that? RPTV? I have a feeling the problem we're experiencing with the SFPs is CRT-specific.
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post #23 of 40 Old 12-31-2006, 07:01 PM
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I also have these vertical areas. They can best be seen when the scene is moving horizontally on a white background. This is why a hockey game shows the effect very well. I believe the problem is with the the super fine shadow mask being out of vertical alignment. The mask heats up as it blocks electrons if it is not exactly in place and/or if the electron guns are not modulated at exactly the right time. I thought that the problem was caused by the delivery people bumping my box on the ground as they took it off the delivery truck. A shock can slightly distort the mask. Perhaps all of our sets have been shocked somewhere in the distribution chain? I am not going to replace the picture tube. The picture is likely to get worse if I do.
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post #24 of 40 Old 12-31-2006, 08:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Like mine did? Indeed. I wouldn't recommend changing the tube either. I'm now much worse off than I was initially, and Sony is still giving me the run-around.

Anyway, yes, light colored scenes, scrolling horizontally, show the problem at its worst. But I don't think it's anything to do with the aperture grill being damaged in any way. There are specific shapes on the inside of the glass that never change. For instance, among many other shapes, I have what looks like a giant letter "M" (if you're looking for a pattern), smudged into the coating on the inside of the tube. I can get up super-close to the screen and see the "pixels" right where they're supposed to be, all lined up normally. I take this to mean the aperture grill is fine, undamaged, and in its proper place.

I've studied the marks for hours now (as stated before, I'll regularly go into a trance while playing a game, manually scrolling the screen back and forth, staring at the streaks... it's quite horrible, lol), and I don't see how it can realistically be anything but the simplest explanation of all: the inside of the glass is streaked. And it's 100% unacceptable. It looks absolutely AWFUL under certain conditions and cannot be ignored.
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post #25 of 40 Old 02-02-2007, 09:14 PM
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Just to revive this topic, i have a 30xs955 and it has these lines, i started a thread about it a while ago, I summize that this just something that comes with these tv's.. I dont think it can be fixed. i think they are so large, that it's just alot more noticable, and i'm sure its something that has to do with the manufacturing process.. mine are equally spaced apart, and i notice it A LOT on games or whatever that scroll around, or on bright white pictures.. I also notice that when i have a completely white screen, some area's are blue-er than others.. its just kind of something you live with with TUBE tv's i think and untill SED is more affordable, i've just learned to live with it..
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post #26 of 40 Old 02-06-2007, 12:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Well, Sony customer service plain sucks. One thing I've learned from all this is that, although they assure you they will, in fact they will *not* get back to you -- ever. *You* have to keep calling them, over and over, sitting through the introductory robot guy each and every time. I can't do it anymore.

I'll be selling the TV and likely going with an SXRD. It's now mostly a matter of my laziness as far as when I'll actually do it, having to put up a listing on craigslist or something. I really don't see how anyone who plays games or watches anime can ignore these streaks. I'll have to make sure the buyer doesn't want it for these things.
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post #27 of 40 Old 02-07-2007, 05:17 PM
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I have a Panasonic 34" hdtv and I have a dark area in the middle of the left half of my screen. I notice it just like you all during sports and nature shows. Anything with a solid back ground. I bought the 3 year Circuit City plan so they had better fix it or replace it. If it can't be fixed I hope I can get store credit and upgrade.

The repair company that Circuit City uses for this area (Chambersburg Pa) can't get here until Feb 27th
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post #28 of 40 Old 03-01-2007, 06:10 AM
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Update: the repair guys think it is a bad tube so hopefully Circuit City gives me store credit so I can go LCD.
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post #29 of 40 Old 03-10-2007, 08:51 AM
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Just wanted to post here I got the same TV on display from Circuit City and I have the exact same problem. It's totally obvious when playing Super Mario Bros 1 on my Wii. It really makes the game unenjoyable. (and that's hard to do)

I actually thought the inside of the TV was dirty and was about to pull the TV apart and clean the screen on the inside. This problem sucks. I wish there was a way to fix it, like via degaussing or a service menu or something.
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post #30 of 40 Old 03-12-2007, 11:38 AM
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Wow, I posted here a few times with this problem, and never got a reply like this.

I have a Sony HD CRT, but not the same model. I have the same exact problem, exactly the way all of you describe it. Games like Super Mario and other 'single' color stuff shows it the most. Like you all said, 'moving the camera' in games REALLY shows it off.

I'm actually really happy to hear everyone has this problem.
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