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post #1 of 34 Old 01-22-2007, 08:32 PM - Thread Starter
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I went to the Mid town best buy today to see if they had the Toshiba 26df56 or 30df56.

half the floor space was dedicated to flatscreen tvs, including some of such piss poor PQ they looked like ghosting 1970s tubes.

i asked the manager where are the crts. he just told last aisle in the back, and then went to tend to some uppity eyeing the 60" plasma on display.

the "aisle" was more about a third of that. half of the tvs weren't even turned on, and those that were didn't even have an HD feed. maybe it didn't really matter, since only 2 of the 5 turned on were even digital anyway. i went to ask the manager if i could see the displays with an hd feed, or even a dvd, and he just said nope, can't do that. everything goes into the plasmas.

"the CRTs are dead weight. nobody wants them."

i've never heard a retail store manager telling a customer his products are dead weight, nor imply that i am a fool for wasting his time for inquiring about a $300 SDTV.

i'm a grad student. the average income in the US is still under $30,000 annually. where are all these people getting $1800 for 42" plasmas? obviously it's a significant majority if EVERY store i've been to in manhattan has basically been the same story of abused and shunned crts on display like museum items rather than potential sales items.

and i STILL have not been able to find a Toshiba 26DF56.
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post #2 of 34 Old 01-22-2007, 09:40 PM
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people want flat panels period
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post #3 of 34 Old 01-22-2007, 09:41 PM
 
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Best Buy=suck
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post #4 of 34 Old 01-22-2007, 09:43 PM
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post #5 of 34 Old 01-23-2007, 12:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aesculanus View Post

i'm a grad student. the average income in the US is still under $30,000 annually. where are all these people getting $1800 for 42" plasmas? obviously it's a significant majority if EVERY store i've been to in manhattan has basically been the same story of abused and shunned crts on display like museum items rather than potential sales items.

Not really, actually. The biggest thing sold over the holidays (in the TV market) was those off brand 32" LCDs. Everyone was selling them for between $400 and $600. You have to realize that most people don't care about quality. They want quantity, and they want it cheap. Plus there is the fact that it doesn't take a team of sturdy people to move an LCD/Plasma around. The CRT is shunned because for 99% of customers it isn't even an option.

And for the record, fellow graduate student, the median income in this country is just over $46k for individuals and just under $70k for two income households. In no state in this country is there a median income under 30k (West Virginia is lowest and a touch over 30k). And beyond that, there are dozens of banks that are happy to loan you money for insane interest rates. Get your facts straight next time.
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post #6 of 34 Old 01-23-2007, 01:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aesculanus View Post

obviously it's a significant majority if EVERY store i've been to in manhattan has basically been the same story of abused and shunned crts

dont think you're going to find many people in manhattan looking for CRTs
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post #7 of 34 Old 01-23-2007, 02:36 AM
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people don't even have one or two friends in this day and age to help them move a TV...SAD!!
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post #8 of 34 Old 01-23-2007, 04:09 AM
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I do have the money where I could buy a LCD/Plasma if I wanted to but still do not see the picture quality being better than the CRT. In the past I have gotten delivery people off CraigsList to help with moving or repositioning TVs and they do not charge more than $20-40. To me it is worth it. Right now it is a buyers market for used CRTs and you can get some really good buys expecially off CraigsList. Just got myself a 36XS955 for a really good price and Im loving it!!!!!!!
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post #9 of 34 Old 01-23-2007, 04:50 AM
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I'll agree with you that CRTs have better PQ than LCDs in general but considering that some of the CRTs you're considering are the poorest out there I actually think you'd be better off with a cheap 768p LCD. Really, the only two good CRTs sold now are the Sony KD-34XBR970 and the Samsung SlimFits. Yes, many of the SlimFits have pretty bad bowing problems but at least Samsung made them with good PQ. If you get lucky enough to get one without the bowing you've got a really good CRT and at a good price. There use to be lots to choose from with CRTs but not anymore. Other than these two the other things out there right now are total crap. People are always wishing on this board that someone would make the "Ultimate CRT". We all know these companies could do it if they wanted to but they don't want to. Instead of releasing a CRT that would put all in awe these companies keep making their CRTs worse every year. Yes, CRT technology has awesome PQ but you wouldn't know it if you judged by most of the CRTs out there now. CRTs from a few years ago blow away CRTs now. About the only way to get a truly excellent CRT nowadays is to get an engineering degree and build it yourself. Because of that I think that with many of these current CRTs a person would actually be better off with a LCD.
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post #10 of 34 Old 01-23-2007, 05:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by infinitespecter View Post

Not really, actually. The biggest thing sold over the holidays (in the TV market) was those off brand 32" LCDs. Everyone was selling them for between $400 and $600. You have to realize that most people don't care about quality. They want quantity, and they want it cheap. Plus there is the fact that it doesn't take a team of sturdy people to move an LCD/Plasma around. The CRT is shunned because for 99% of customers it isn't even an option.

And for the record, fellow graduate student, the median income in this country is just over $46k for individuals and just under $70k for two income households. In no state in this country is there a median income under 30k (West Virginia is lowest and a touch over 30k). And beyond that, there are dozens of banks that are happy to loan you money for insane interest rates. Get your facts straight next time.

The median income per household member (including all working and non-working members above the age of 14) in the year 2003 was $23,535

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Househo..._United_States
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post #11 of 34 Old 01-23-2007, 10:23 AM
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Alot of the poor PQ that we are seeing are coming from the feeds that go to the displays. I happen to be in the market for a bigger display. I currently have a 34" Panny HDTV and a Sony 36xs955. Love both sets and am spoiled by the PQ. I was watching a 40" and 46" Sony v2500 flat screen LCD with a feed from a DVR with HD video of outside scenes including a beautiful red sports car. PQ was fantastic. All the other sets had a feed of CC comparison of HD vs. SD. PQ on all the other sets looked terrible with ghosting noted on every set. I then had the salesman change the feed on the Sony displays to other feed and yes it looked crappy on the Sony LCD sets. It is hard to compare sets with such a bad feed. You would think some sort of quality control would be in place by CC and definately by the manufactures of the sets.
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post #12 of 34 Old 01-23-2007, 10:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wickerman1972 View Post

I'll agree with you that CRTs have better PQ than LCDs in general but considering that some of the CRTs you're considering are the poorest out there I actually think you'd be better off with a cheap 768p LCD. Really, the only two good CRTs sold now are the Sony KD-34XBR970 and the Samsung SlimFits. Yes, many of the SlimFits have pretty bad bowing problems but at least Samsung made them with good PQ. If you get lucky enough to get one without the bowing you've got a really good CRT and at a good price. There use to be lots to choose from with CRTs but not anymore. Other than these two the other things out there right now are total crap. People are always wishing on this board that someone would make the "Ultimate CRT". We all know these companies could do it if they wanted to but they don't want to. Instead of releasing a CRT that would put all in awe these companies keep making their CRTs worse every year. Yes, CRT technology has awesome PQ but you wouldn't know it if you judged by most of the CRTs out there now. CRTs from a few years ago blow away CRTs now. About the only way to get a truly excellent CRT nowadays is to get an engineering degree and build it yourself. Because of that I think that with many of these current CRTs a person would actually be better off with a LCD.

This is EXACTLY why I'm on the hunt for a Sony XBR960. It is probably the best hdtv made, certainly the best crt hdtv made. I saw the 970 this weekend and while it's a great tv, it's not as good as the 960. They just don't make them like that anymore. I would absolutely LOVE to find a 960 somewhere near here.
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post #13 of 34 Old 01-23-2007, 11:44 AM
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I went to two stores while shopping for an HD CRT. Both places tried to make me feel dumb for even considering one. That attitude, that's what annoys me. I did my research, know what aspects of PQ are important to me, and know why my DVD collection looks like, along with my budget and my room. Just let me buy the TV and go away, minus all the pro plasma, pro LCD propaganda.

Anyway, I got a Sony XBR970 at a great price, hooked up an Oppo 971 over HDMI, and have been very happy with everything.

It's also interesting to note that at both stores, after they realized that their $2000 plasma pitch wasn't going to work, both salesman admitted to having HD CRTs at home ...
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post #14 of 34 Old 01-23-2007, 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Penarin View Post

Anyway, I got a Sony XBR970 at a great price, hooked up an Oppo 971 over HDMI, and have been very happy with everything.

I'm sure you'll be very happy with that tv. If I had never seen the 960, I would be too! Also, I think the value of the 970's is dropping like a rock as a salesman at a big box store quietly offered me one for $775 and free delivery. If I can't find a 960 soon, I'll probably take him up on the offer.
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post #15 of 34 Old 01-23-2007, 07:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aesculanus View Post

and i STILL have not been able to find a Toshiba 26DF56.

Best Buy did carry the Toshiba 26DF56 and 30DF56 one time, but Best Buy stopped carrying them because nobody is buying them. In my local store, there used to be two 26DF56 boxes sat on the shelf for six months without a sale, and the store ended up discounting them to $250 to get rid of them.

Why a 26DF66? It's only a SDTV and will get obsolete quickly. What about 26HF66? It's a HDTV.
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post #16 of 34 Old 01-23-2007, 08:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wickerman1972 View Post

People are always wishing on this board that someone would make the "Ultimate CRT". We all know these companies could do it if they wanted to but they don't want to. Instead of releasing a CRT that would put all in awe these companies keep making their CRTs worse every year.

Sounds exactly like Auto Manufacturers and Production Electric Vehicles in the early part of this decade. Seems like I'm developing a trend for getting manufacturer disregarded items, as I have a decent 26" Pre Slimfit Samsung HDTV, and a GM built 1998 S10 Electric truck.
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post #17 of 34 Old 01-23-2007, 08:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Penarin View Post

It's also interesting to note that at both stores, after they realized that their $2000 plasma pitch wasn't going to work, both salesman admitted to having HD CRTs at home ...

i caught this too. after it the sales guy caught on there was no way i'd ever consider $1800 for an lcd, he admitted he had the widescreen HD CRT samsung i was looking at.

i don't think the market really decided that crts should go away - i think marketing departments and CFOs and retail commission decided it was time for the CRT to die.
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post #18 of 34 Old 01-23-2007, 08:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by InYourEyes View Post

Why a 26DF66? It's only a SDTV and will get obsolete quickly. What about 26HF66? It's a HDTV.


No more quickly than I will have be moving into more appreciable circumstances. another year of grad school left, the wife moving to boston for med school, neither of us watching tv for anything other than dvds, continuing price drops in plasma....

no way am i putting down thousands more just to shed a tube for something that is meant to be replaced anyway in 2-3 years.
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post #19 of 34 Old 01-25-2007, 05:07 PM
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I too hate that attitude, whenever I go to a CE store and look for CRT's the salesmen always tell how much better IN EVERY WAY Plasma and LCD are. I mean, yes, CRT's weigh much more and the screen size is smaller but the PQ is SO much better. I currently own a 9th gen Panasonic Plasma and while the PQ is very good the black levels are FAR from CRT's and it makes a HUGE difference in dark scenes and it even seems to effect the "presence" of the image with brighter scenes. Not only that but the pixel density of CRT's at 30-34" makes them look much sharper than my 42" HD Plasma. Hopefully Pioneer brought the black levels down enough to compare to CRT otherwise I may end up going back to something like the XBR970.
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post #20 of 34 Old 01-25-2007, 07:14 PM
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What I find more aggravating than the attitudes of these guys in the red or blue polo shirts is the fact that I know sooo much more than they do. When I have a question I can't find an answer to on line I find it very frustrating to go to these stores and, get know answer for my questions but end up answering all of theirs...Is it that difficult to do a little research, fellas?? I also am in the market for the 970 but have encountered the same problems (this would be my FIRST HD). And regarding CRT clarity?? I watch mostly sports, and I would take my SD Panasonic CT-27SC14 with Comcast HD-DVR feed through component cables over 90% of the LCDs on the walls...signal and means of transmission mean everything...
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post #21 of 34 Old 01-25-2007, 07:43 PM
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If you are considering the 970 and are concerned about clarity I would say that compared to my plasma the HD CRT's I owned looked much sharper. LCD might look sharper as it has the highest pixel density of any flat panel technology out right now but the PQ is so much worse than everything else out there that I cannot recommend it even though most LCD panels are full 1080p these days.
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post #22 of 34 Old 01-27-2007, 06:12 AM
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Hello : I picked a toshiba 30" widescreen right before christmas from BB for just under $400 reg $599. . I love the TV. Today I see it on sale at Kmart for $279 . as a special purchase . Just my luck because it is 33 dayes from when I purched it from BB . I highly recommend this TV . No high def but I sit 12 feet back and it looks great . Richard
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post #23 of 34 Old 01-30-2007, 10:38 PM
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I have an excellent copy of the Samsung 30" Slimfit (3082). I feed it with free over-the-air HD content with like 12 local channels. CBS & NBC come through in 1080. The CRT looks just amazing. LCD & Plasma always looks many levels lower in quality. With the Slimfit, people come into my apartment thinking its a little plasma - I have to explain.

Don't understand why people don't get it.
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post #24 of 34 Old 02-03-2007, 10:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by infinitespecter View Post


And for the record, fellow graduate student, the median income in this country is just over $46k for individuals and just under $70k for two income households. In no state in this country is there a median income under 30k (West Virginia is lowest and a touch over 30k). And beyond that, there are dozens of banks that are happy to loan you money for insane interest rates. Get your facts straight next time.

As another fellow graduate student, I am disappointed that you improperly stated statistics while correcting another poster. The median personal income for males above the age of 25 is $39,400, while the median personal income of females above 25 is $26,500. The median income of all households is $46,000; this number is different from the previously stated median income for individuals. I sincerely hope you are not studying a quantitative discipline.
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post #25 of 34 Old 02-04-2007, 09:25 AM
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I can't resist pointing out that aesculanus said "average", not median in his post which is guaranteed to be even further off than the median numbers, probably even if one cheats and averages across everyone in the US and not just workers.

Anyway, if a salesman tells me the product I'm looking at is dead weight, I take that as an invitation to do him a favor and take it off his hands for the right price...
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post #26 of 34 Old 02-06-2007, 01:21 AM
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I still get underwhelmed every time I go to CC or BB and look at the Plasmas and LCDs. Just with I could get the same PQ as my Sony 36xs955 in a bigger screen.
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post #27 of 34 Old 02-15-2007, 09:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Can someone put a link to that kmart ad to i can price match at bestbuy?
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post #28 of 34 Old 02-15-2007, 09:33 PM
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We must remember that not all CRT sets are created equal. I have a Panny CT-34wx54 and a Sony KDL 36XS955. Both sets are great. I went over a friends house to watch a few movies and he has a 30 inch Samsung which is about 3 years old. PQ really sucked on that set. HD channels looked very adverage with allot of noise. Everytime he comes over he just drools.
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post #29 of 34 Old 02-18-2007, 08:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aesculanus View Post

i'm a grad student. the average income in the US is still under $30,000 annually. where are all these people getting $1800 for 42" plasmas?

It is estimated that the current average savings rate of a US citizen is -1.5%. Yes, negative. That means the average person is currently spending more money than they have. You won't hear about it in the newspaper or on TV, but the wave of mortgage foreclosures tells the true story.
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post #30 of 34 Old 02-21-2007, 07:28 PM
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Best Buy Here Still Stocks the Sony CRTs (34 Inch HS420's and the 34 inch XBRs)

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