Sony KD-34XBR960 Overscan Fix? Service Menu walk-thru? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 26 Old 03-30-2007, 04:09 AM - Thread Starter
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It seems that the TV overscans at about %10-%15.
I don't know how to get to the service menu, much less what to do once I get there.
Has anybody seen this same issue and figured out how to correct it?
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post #2 of 26 Old 03-30-2007, 08:51 AM
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Turn the TV off then press on the remote: Display, 5, Vol +, Power On

1 and 4 is changing the mode you want to be changed (HPOS, VPOS)
3 and 6 is changing the value of that mode

Press Muting to write and press enter to finalize the writing.


HPOS
HSIZ
VPOS
VSIZ

is the mode you want to change. H for horizontal, V for vertical, POS for position, SIZ for size.

There is always someone out there that gives you opinion of a product that they don't even own.
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post #3 of 26 Old 03-30-2007, 08:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by like.no.other. View Post

Turn the TV off then press on the remote: Display, 5, Vol +, Power On

1 and 4 is changing the mode you want to be changed (HPOS, VPOS)
3 and 6 is changing the value of that mode

Press Muting to write and press enter to finalize the writing.


HPOS
HSIZ
VPOS
VSIZ

is the mode you want to change. H for horizontal, V for vertical, POS for position, SIZ for size.

Yep, and PLEASE use patience and accept that you won't get it 100% perfect.
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post #4 of 26 Old 03-30-2007, 09:36 AM
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Do me a favor and not to fiddle around modes other than the one I gave because you might
kill your TV and Sony doesn't cover TV that has been messed with internally.

There is always someone out there that gives you opinion of a product that they don't even own.
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post #5 of 26 Old 03-30-2007, 11:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by like.no.other. View Post

Do me a favor and not to fiddle around modes other than the one I gave because you might
kill your TV and Sony doesn't cover TV that has been messed with internally.

Yikes, that's terrifying.
So the horiz and vert size adjustments are separate? Does that mean that it won't automatically keep the correct aspect ratio. Does the ratio adjust at 1:1 or 1.85:1? Does that make any sense?
I'm planning to try this weekend, so whatever happens I'll let you know how it goes. Anything else I should know?
Are the original settings displayed in case I want to go back to factory default?
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post #6 of 26 Old 03-30-2007, 03:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by like.no.other. View Post

Turn the TV off then press on the remote: Display, 5, Vol +, Power On

1 and 4 is changing the mode you want to be changed (HPOS, VPOS)
3 and 6 is changing the value of that mode

Press Muting to write and press enter to finalize the writing.


HPOS
HSIZ
VPOS
VSIZ

is the mode you want to change. H for horizontal, V for vertical, POS for position, SIZ for size.

By the way, which test pattern do you use on the AVIA dvd for fixing this?
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post #7 of 26 Old 03-30-2007, 05:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheloniousMonkey View Post

Yikes, that's terrifying.
So the horiz and vert size adjustments are separate? Does that mean that it won't automatically keep the correct aspect ratio. Does the ratio adjust at 1:1 or 1.85:1? Does that make any sense?
I'm planning to try this weekend, so whatever happens I'll let you know how it goes. Anything else I should know?
Are the original settings displayed in case I want to go back to factory default?

I don't know what you said about aspect ratio. Horizontal and Vertical is seperate.
Try changing the value and if the picture moves then that is the correct initials to mess with. If you do something wrong, just turn the TV off and will not permanently write it. You can restart again. Use the initials I gave you using the controls I gave you.



Quote:
Originally Posted by JayPSU View Post

By the way, which test pattern do you use on the AVIA dvd for fixing this?

Widescreen Enhance with the crosshatch and the one with the corner lines.
I also use the Overscan Percent (Full) to verify everything in correct order.

There is always someone out there that gives you opinion of a product that they don't even own.
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post #8 of 26 Old 03-30-2007, 05:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by like.no.other. View Post

I don't know what you said about aspect ratio. Horizontal and Vertical is seperate.
Try changing the value and if the picture moves then that is the correct initials to mess with. If you do something wrong, just turn the TV off and will not permanently write it. You can restart again. Use the initials I gave you using the controls I gave you.





Widescreen Enhance with the crosshatch and the one with the corner lines.
I also use the Overscan Percent (Full) to verify everything in correct order.

If you change the positioning on one input, will it also change them on the other inputs, or do you have to go through each one and do them?
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post #9 of 26 Old 03-30-2007, 05:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JayPSU View Post

If you change the positioning on one input, will it also change them on the other inputs, or do you have to go through each one and do them?

If you change it through the service menu, then the whole TV's inputs or whatever it's
displaying is changed. The only time it takes effect on individual input is through user menu.

There is always someone out there that gives you opinion of a product that they don't even own.
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post #10 of 26 Old 03-31-2007, 12:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by like.no.other. View Post

Turn the TV off then press on the remote: Display, 5, Vol +, Power On

1 and 4 is changing the mode you want to be changed (HPOS, VPOS)
3 and 6 is changing the value of that mode

Press Muting to write and press enter to finalize the writing.


HPOS
HSIZ
VPOS
VSIZ

is the mode you want to change. H for horizontal, V for vertical, POS for position, SIZ for size.


It worked like a charm.
You have to go through about 50 settings (using 1 or 4) before you get to the values to be changed, but once you find it it's easy because the picture remains on screen and changes as you make adjustments so it's really easy to see what you're doing.

The HORIZ and VERT controls are separate and do not stay linked so you can lose the intended aspect ratio and end up with a squeezed picture. What I did is shrink down the picture and position it so that the edge of the picture was barely visible at the edge of the screen. Then I enlarged the picture until the edge went just off the screen. I did the same for both HORIZ and VERT.
Then I happened upon an above the rim shot from a basketball game. That gave me a good perfect circle as a reference and it turned out to be at the right aspect ratio. So just by following the contours of the physical screen, you can maintain aspect ratio.

Thanks for your help and I hope this helps others with the same problem (which, as I understand it, is everybody with this set.)
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post #11 of 26 Old 04-03-2007, 04:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by like.no.other. View Post

Turn the TV off then press on the remote: Display, 5, Vol +, Power On

1 and 4 is changing the mode you want to be changed (HPOS, VPOS)
3 and 6 is changing the value of that mode

Press Muting to write and press enter to finalize the writing.


HPOS
HSIZ
VPOS
VSIZ

is the mode you want to change. H for horizontal, V for vertical, POS for position, SIZ for size.

thats all well and fine if you want to adjust the overscan for the whole tv on every video mode on every input...

but if you're like me and really only notice the overscan on the playstation3 hooked up through hdmi (sony assumes everyone has 1:1 pixel mapped 1080p displays) then the following is for you as using the settings in mid3 are input and resoultion specific (yes i have an xbox360 too and yes for whatever reason all my 360 games do NOT put text in the overscan area)

anyway after a whole lot of combing through the sony service codes thread i finally found what i was really looking for "how to adjust overscan for one input ONLY". big thanks to kentech for figuring all this out and a major THANK YOU to DSperber for explaining it in FRIGGIN ENGLISH. here you go,

it's generally a good idea to warm up your t.v. for at least 30 minutes before adjusting anything in the service menu (turn it on, leave it on for 30 minutes, turn it off, enter service menu)

Don't forget to write down your current settings for each input before you start. (note, you might have to actually change the value to see it's default i.e. hit 3 to go up then 6 to go back down.)

If you make a change you want to "stick," press the Mute button (the word "WRITE" appears), then Enter within a few seconds. (WRITE changes to red, then back to SERVICE.) The changes have been written to internal memory. If you hit Mute by accident, it will revert shortly, so don't worry.


Well, first I believe there are separate memories for 480p/720p/1080i (I may be wrong here), or else there are just separate memories for INPUT5 and INPUT6. One way or the other, I show different service menu values when I adjust with a test pattern from DVE (480p on INPUT5) vs. when I adjust with a test pattern from my PC (DMWVE overscan test image, 1080i on INPUT6). However whatever the actual settings are, the general tweaking approach is the same.

(1) Using DVE, I went to Title 12 (Display Setup Patterns) and then Chapter 17 (1:33 overscan pattern). On my 34XBR960 the test pattern will display automatically in FULL mode (i.e. 16x9), although I can use the MODE button to get it back to 4:3 if I wanted to (but I don't). So now I'm looking at that pattern in 16x9. It has extreme edges, as well as interior rectangles and gradation markings reflecting the various percentages of overscan.

The following recipe will probably require several iterations, going back through 2170D-1, 2170D-2 and MID3 until you're totally satisfied. So don't just stop with your first try. Also, you will want to verify that you have proper alignment on all of your inputs... since it appears there are separate memories for each.

Don't forget to write down your current settings for each input before you start.

(2) Power the TV off, and then enter service mode (Display, 5, Volume +, Power). Then press 2 repeatedly until you get to the 2170D-1 group for vertical alignment. Use 5 to go back if you "overshoot" the group.

Once in 2170D-1 I used only 0 (VPOS vertical position) and 1 (VSIZ vertical size) to adjust vertically, using 1/4 buttons to go back and forth between 0 and 1, and using 3/6 buttons to adjust that item up or down.

To sense the effect of each 3/6 tweak, push the key just one unit at a time and watch what happens on the screen. It will be obvious what you're changing, and when you've reached (or exceeded) where you should probably be.

When you're satisfied that you have centered and sized vertically (using the gradations and overscan percentage rectangles as your general guide), move on.

(3) Press 2 to move into 2170D-2, where I used only 1 (HPOS horizontal position) and 2 (HSIZ horizontal size), again using 1/4 buttons to go back and forth between 1 and 2, and using 3/6 buttons to adjust that item up or down.

Again, try your best to get the best (or expected) amount of size and centering in the horizontal direction. You may want to go back to 2170D-1 and fool around some more with vertical arrangement.

Again, use 3/6 one unit at a time and watch what happens on the screen. Even though you haven't gotten to MID3 yet, you can still sense when what you currently have is optimal or not.

4) When satisfied that you have the vertical and horizontal size and centering done acceptably (for now, anyway), press 2 repeatedly until you get to MID3.

The adjustments with 2170D-1 and 2170D-2 are conceptually the "raster" (i.e. the "canvas"), which is sort of the background upon which the actual image will then be displayed... located on your physical screen according to your VPOS, VSIZ, HPOS and HSIZ settings.

Then, the "image" dimensions and position (on top of the "canvas") is what is controlled by MID3. So in a sense, you can have a larger background than an actual image on top of that background, and the image can be moved around and resized on top of the background using the MID3 controls.

That's why you try to maximize/optimize the "background raster" with 2170D-1 and 2170D-2, in anticipation of properly sizing and placing the "image" on top of it using MID3. Obviously you want to end up with the image size and canvas size the same, which would make the image extend out to the edges of the screen just like the conceptual raster background underneath it. This maximizes the amount of image you see, wasting nothing of your 16x9 screen real estate.

I don't know why Sony decided to implement this whole thing as "layers" (a la Photoshop) but they did. So you just have to go through this 2-step process of first spreading out the canvas to fill your screen, and then spreading out the image on top of the canvas to also fill the screen. What's up to you to control is just how much overscan you impute through your settings, meaning how much of the perimiter image you are willing to lose.

DING DING DING, the next part of the post will only change settings for the input you are on, they are also resolution specific, meaning that if you are in 1080i mode the settings will not affect 720p mode unless you actually switch to 720 p mode and make changes there too. which is exactly what i needed!!!

Once at MID3, you use 0 (VDHP horizontal position), 1 (VDHS horizontal size), 2 (VDVE vertical position) and 3 (VDVS vertical size) to manipulate the "image" on top of the "background" (i.e. within the "background raster"). Again, use 3/6 buttons to adjust one unit at a time up or down and watch what happens on the screen. It will be obvious what you're doing and what effect you're having.

Try to adjust things so that you have maximum amount of screen real estate covered, with symmetrical alignment of the 5% overscan rectangle a bit inside the extreme perimiter of the screen... depending on your likes. I suppose you can align things so that you have essentially 0% overscan (where the extreme outside of the test pattern rectangle is uniformly visible around the edges of the screen) but that may let in some video noise depending on what you're watching. It's more likely to see that video noise when a channel broadcasts 4x3 content inside their 16x9 digital presentation (e.g. "Curb Your Enthusiasm" on HBOHD).

In other words, shooting for approximately 1-3% overscan is probably a good idea, and will keep you from screaming at the set when you see video noise. Better not to deal with that.

(5) Once you get used to what you're doing with MID3 and the image stretching, sliding, etc., you can go back to 2170D-1 and 2170D-2 to see if you can perfect things a bit more. And then of course you'll come back to MID3 and tweak again.

This is a delicate process, but you will clearly see what you're accomplishing as you use 3/6 one unit at a time in either direction. It will be very obvious that you're either helping things or hurting things.

(6) Again, I recommend doing this for each of your inputs (INPUT5 and INPUT6 in my case, as I use INPUT5 for DVD/480p and INPUT6 for HD/720p/1080i), at least to determine where the separate memories are... are they by input, or by resolution? Based on my experience there definitely are separate memories for my 1080i (PC, INPUT6) and 480p (DVD, INPUT5) efforts.

now i can see the top of the screen in the sony web browser on the ps3!!!

thank god.
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post #12 of 26 Old 04-04-2007, 03:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldirtdog View Post

Once at MID3, you use 0 (VDHP horizontal position), 1 (VDHS horizontal size), 2 (VDVE vertical position) and 3 (VDVS vertical size) to manipulate the "image" on top of the "background" (i.e. within the "background raster"). Again, use 3/6 buttons to adjust one unit at a time up or down and watch what happens on the screen. It will be obvious what you're doing and what effect you're having.

When I go to MID3, I see different options than you. Under MID3, my 0 is YCPO, my 1 is CCPO, my 2 is PRPB and my 3 is DOSA.
I went through every setting in every group and didn't see any values named as you describe (VDHP, VDHS, VDVE, VDVS.)

But... I did find the following values under MID 2 that seemed to do what you describe:
0 is DHHP, 1 is DHHS, 2 is DHVP and 3 is DHVS.

And the following values under MID1 seemed to have a similar effect:
8- MDHP
9- MDVP
10- MDHS
11- MDVS

I adjusted both the MID1 and MID2 values and I recovered lots of picture that I'd been missing, but I didn't save the changes because that seemed reckless.

Any idea what going on with the differing values? I did this while I was on a 1080i input. Does that affect it? Should I save the original values and just try tweaking MID2? Will it throw other things off?
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post #13 of 26 Old 04-04-2007, 04:39 AM
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if you do a search for ycpo then you'll come up with some threads that deal with those different service codes, if you like the way your set is now though i wouldn't sweat it much.

in my case i only wanted to adjust settings for my ps3. on that input.
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post #14 of 26 Old 04-07-2007, 04:59 PM
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So, I fixed my problem but I can't figure out how to get out of service mode. Please help me!
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post #15 of 26 Old 04-07-2007, 05:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlesDickens View Post

So, I fixed my problem but I can't figure out how to get out of service mode. Please help me!

To give a bit more details there is this a screen stuck on my TV. There are three titles: Front End, In Band (FAT), Out of Band (FDC). I have a pic of it but forum rules won't allow me to post it.

I've tried the log in to service combo again but that didn't take me out of it. It just put the service menu over the top of this screen. I even tried unplugging the TV to see if it would go back. Please help as I'm freaking out that I might have screwed up my TV.

I have a KD-34XBR970. Help, please.
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post #16 of 26 Old 04-07-2007, 08:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlesDickens View Post

To give a bit more details there is this a screen stuck on my TV. There are three titles: Front End, In Band (FAT), Out of Band (FDC). I have a pic of it but forum rules won't allow me to post it.

I've tried the log in to service combo again but that didn't take me out of it. It just put the service menu over the top of this screen. I even tried unplugging the TV to see if it would go back. Please help as I'm freaking out that I might have screwed up my TV.

I have a KD-34XBR970. Help, please.



Nitewatchman kindly answered this for me at in the " THE SONY SERVICE CODES - Articles, Comments, Discoveries" thread. I would post the URL but again, forum rules.
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post #17 of 26 Old 04-08-2007, 05:51 AM
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The Tune Up show that INHD plays every now and then came on this morning and when I saw the overscan chart I was shocked. My picture has dramatic overscan. It's over 5% on all sides and at the top it is close to 10%. I recently purchased both DVE and Avia but haven't messed with them much yet. So after seeing that I reckon I'll try adjusting it this coming weekend. This thread is going to come in handy. I have a question: Is there separate menus in the service menu for moving your picture to the left or right or is that all taken care of in the four menus mentioned in this thread? I ask because my picture is pushed a bit to the right. Another thing: My picture's tilt is off. I've adjusted it in the user menu but I'd rather set that to 0 and correct it in the service menu. What is the menu in the service menu that you use for that? I'd like to get my overscan down as much as possible, to like 1%. But I doubt I'll be able to do that on the bottom because there is a good bit of bowing at the bottom. The middle-bottom of the screen bows upwards. I don't know if it is true or not but I've heard the only way that can be fixed is with magnets or something like that. I do find it funny though that my CRT PC monitor that I payed only $99 for has absolutely perfect geometry and the HDTV that I payed $800 for has bowing that is clearly noticeable, especially at the bottom.
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post #18 of 26 Old 04-16-2007, 08:02 AM
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This tip works great if your playstation 3 or ps3 does not display properly on your crt sony. I just did it for my Sony KD-34XBR910. Great posting, thanks!
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post #19 of 26 Old 04-21-2007, 06:02 AM
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Man, this stuff is confusing. There must be different things set to different settings in here because things don't appear to be consistent. I finally got around to trying to adjust my overscan. My original settings were:

VPOS = 24
VSIZ = 38
HPOS = 25
HSIZ = 39

I ended up setting them to:

VPOS = 23
VSIZ = 37
HPOS = 27
HSIZ = 33

As you can see the only thing I was able to make a considerable adjustment to was HSIZ. I originally had set VSIZ to 32 but it caused problems. According to the overscan graph 32 completely filled the screen from top to bottom with just a tad cut off but when I would watch TV at this setting there would be empty space at the top of the screen. So I kept going back into the SM and turning it up a bit until I had it at 37 which was nearly where I started. I'm not sure why the overscan graph shows a full screen at 32 but in reallity I had to crank it up to 37 to get a full screen. I'm guessing that there is another setting in the SM somewhere that is conflicting with it. I made these adjustments in the 2170D-1 menu. Also, my screen has always been about half an inch further to the right than the left. Despite my making sure everything was centered up when adjusting to the overscan graph it is still pushed to the right about half an inch. I measured the black bars on the sides and the one on the right is app. half an inch more narrow than the one on the left. This makes no sense because when I bring up that overscan graph left to right looks perfect. Also, having adjusted HSIZ by 6 clicks my black bars are pretty damned wide now. I'm guessing they are a little wider than they should be but I'm not really sure. But anyway, my point is that it seems to me that there is more things I need to adjust to get everything correct but I'm not sure what those things are.
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post #20 of 26 Old 04-21-2007, 07:17 AM
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I looked at the things oldirtdog said and thought I had the answer but apparently not. When I go to 2170D-2 the changes I made in 2170D-1 have already carried over to that. When I go to the MID3 menu I don't have the settings he mentioned ( I have a XBR970. ). So I looked around in MID2 and MID1 and there are things in there that can be changed that apply to overscan but they already appear to be the same as what I set things to in 2170D-01 because nothing changes on the screen when I look at them. Perhaps I need to have my DVD player outputting in different resolutions to get things right. I'm using the XBOX 360 and the XBOX 360 HD-DVD add-on. I thought 1 or both of these did upscaling but no matter which I put DVE in my TV says it is accepting 480p despite my 360 being set to 1080i. So it appears that 480p is the only way I can display DVE with the equipment I have. If there are different settings for different res. outputs and I need to be outputting in that res. to adjust it than there is nothing I can do. But the way oldirtdog explained it I was expecting the screen to change when I jumped from the settings in 2170D-01 to MID3 or MIDwhatever. But everything still looks the same so I can't adjust anything if the screen already looks the way I want it. But despite a VSIZ setting of 32 looking OK when I'm looking at the overscan graph it isn't OK when I watch anything at that setting. Then there's that weird thing of the screen being further to the right when watching anything but it looking perfect when looking at the overscan graph. Strange.
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post #21 of 26 Old 04-23-2007, 10:30 PM
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With an XBR970, I have a strange issue on Video-1 using 4x3 480i mode. I have S-Video from my DirecTV to the TV and in 4x3 Normal mode I'm missing about half an inch of picture on the left side. But when I switch to Zoom mode I actually see more of the picture that was missing on the left in 4x3 mode. In Normal mode it's more apparent when programming tries to put large text or something in the center of the screen.

Also, if I horizontally center the Zoom mode and save it (HPOS affects all modes), then go back to 4x3 Normal mode, the picture looks like it's shifted to the right because of the missing info on the left. I think I need to play with the other settings beyond just *POS & *SIZ. I believe this is also why I have a slight green/white vertical line on the left side of my 4x3 Normal mode material. I thought it was due to too much sharpness (VMH VMM VML), but those settings just reduced the affect.
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post #22 of 26 Old 05-06-2007, 08:26 PM
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Wickerman thanks for the fascinating info. You know one would think these TVs would have pre-programmed chips and those settings would be the same on all sets .. but no. Mine had:

Vsiz: 37
vpos: 25
hpos:23
hsiz:37

I have adjusted it to

vsiz: 28
vpos: 29
hpos: 29
hsiz: 34

However, this has created a slight jutting to the left on the bottom of the screen for something like a quarter inch. I'll either have to live with it, or put up with a slight amount of overscan or cropping. (unless somebody has some otehr setting to fix that)

Skram0 I suggest watching the main 970 thread, somebody else has posted about a similar problem, though in their case it was about all 480i modes. Somebody may post something about it there.
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post #23 of 26 Old 09-17-2007, 05:07 PM
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Wow, this thread has been very informative.

I have a Sony KDP-65XBR2, which has significant overscan that is especially noticeable when I am playing my PS3 (I am so relieved a previous poster directly commented on the PS3 in relation to overscan). I have only encountered one game so far that allows a re-sizing of the image to fit the screen. Unfortunately the PS3 does not have an inherent setting to create a fixed "image template" that all games could automatically resize to fit (sorry for erroneous terminology, i hope you get what i mean there).

I may have to adjust each input individually however, as I'm not sure I'm getting the same amount of overscan in broadcast-over-the-air-HD, cable tv signal, DVD signal, etc. For now I'll adjust the whole deal and go from there.

I found a list of all the ITEMs in the service menu that could be adjusted (at http://myweb.accessus.net/~090/sonyadj.html), but it was a daunting list and had several items that involved the word "vertical" in some way. Laugh out loud. I had narrowed it down to VSIZ, but I wasn't sure. I'm glad I stumbled on this thread as the overscan is driving me nuts when playing my PS3. I'm also glad I didn't adjust something like SCRL or VCOM or VUSN, etc. I was seriously thinking about tweaking those. Anyhoo, not trying to plug the site I mentioned, but it does have a comprehensive list for those who are interested.

Thanks to all for contributing to this thread. Wish me luck. Next I'll be toning down the inherent video "warmness" the tv has.
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post #24 of 26 Old 04-05-2010, 06:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbodood View Post


However, this has created a slight jutting to the left on the bottom of the screen for something like a quarter inch. I'll either have to live with it, or put up with a slight amount of overscan or cropping. (unless somebody has some otehr setting to fix that)

Skram0 I suggest watching the main 970 thread, somebody else has posted about a similar problem, though in their case it was about all 480i modes. Somebody may post something about it there.

I am having that same problem with the jutting to the left. Any one knows what's up?

100% Digital household since 2001
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post #25 of 26 Old 09-03-2014, 12:09 PM
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Does it change the settings on all inputs? Also how do I save my settings
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post #26 of 26 Old 09-03-2014, 12:24 PM
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I have the kdf70xbr950
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