Sharpness of a CRT? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 172 Old 07-06-2007, 10:18 AM - Thread Starter
 
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One of the things I really love about the flat-panel's that alot of you guys seem to hate so much is how amazingly sharp the picture is. When I think of HD I think of that awesome super-sharp picture. I want a CRT to avoid motion-blur and get the awesome contrast and color accuracy I'm used to with my old SDTV but I know CRTs produce a softer picture than the super sharp LCD's I like so much. My question is how big is the difference? If I go CRT then I already have to deal with the massive size and weight that will be a biatch in college so I'd like to get as close as I can to perfection as I can if I go the CRT route but I really just can't imagine something looking HD and looking soft it's a bit of an oxymoron. Am I better off going with an LCD?
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post #2 of 172 Old 07-06-2007, 10:57 AM
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Seems like you like artificial edge enhancement. Just get a CRT and turn on the SVM or turn up the sharpness, and enjoy. Oh, and get an XBR970.

Sony XBR960n - nice to rods, mean to cones.
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post #3 of 172 Old 07-06-2007, 11:00 AM
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oh, and HD is supposed to be "soft". What you are seeing is fake outlines. Most LCDs need the sharpness turned down to zero to display the image correctly.

Sony XBR960n - nice to rods, mean to cones.
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post #4 of 172 Old 07-06-2007, 02:46 PM - Thread Starter
 
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What about a Samsung Slimfit? I may not be able to find a 970 in my area.
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post #5 of 172 Old 07-06-2007, 03:12 PM
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Here's some tips:

Sony = best TV you can buy

Samsung = decent/good picture, bad geometry, reliable

Philips = average/poor picture, good geometry, unreliable

Toshiba = very good picture, unreliable, poor factory calibration

Sanyo = poor picture, very reliable

Sony XBR960n - nice to rods, mean to cones.
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post #6 of 172 Old 07-06-2007, 03:44 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Ok, what makes the Slimfit only appear decent/good in comparison to a Sony?
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post #7 of 172 Old 07-06-2007, 05:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fugiot View Post

Here's some tips:

Sony = best TV you can buy

Samsung = decent/good picture, bad geometry, reliable

Philips = average/poor picture, good geometry, unreliable

Toshiba = very good picture, unreliable, poor factory calibration

Sanyo = poor picture, very reliable

Panasonic doesn't make your list????
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post #8 of 172 Old 07-06-2007, 06:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bkchurch View Post

One of the things I really love about the flat-panel's that alot of you guys seem to hate so much is how amazingly sharp the picture is. When I think of HD I think of that awesome super-sharp picture. I want a CRT to avoid motion-blur and get the awesome contrast and color accuracy I'm used to with my old SDTV but I know CRTs produce a softer picture than the super sharp LCD's I like so much. My question is how big is the difference? If I go CRT then I already have to deal with the massive size and weight that will be a biatch in college so I'd like to get as close as I can to perfection as I can if I go the CRT route but I really just can't imagine something looking HD and looking soft it's a bit of an oxymoron. Am I better off going with an LCD?

Don't buy a crt. Your back/muscles/shoulders will thank you.
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post #9 of 172 Old 07-06-2007, 06:41 PM
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Originally Posted by DLO View Post

Don't buy a crt. Your back/muscles/shoulders will thank you.

Why, do you carry your TV from room to room with you?
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post #10 of 172 Old 07-06-2007, 06:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JayCT-34WX15 View Post

Panasonic doesn't make your list????

i've never seen a panasonic hdtv CRT but every sd panasonic CRT i have ever seen had a better picture than any other brand

i have 2 panasonics in my house and 5 sonys (all CRT)

even in the stores, the panasonic CRTs always looked better to me than any other brand

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post #11 of 172 Old 07-06-2007, 06:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by primetimeguy View Post

Why, do you carry your TV from room to room with you?


All this noise about noise.
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post #12 of 172 Old 07-06-2007, 07:39 PM
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Originally Posted by primetimeguy View Post

Why, do you carry your TV from room to room with you?

I would if I could, believe me.
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post #13 of 172 Old 07-06-2007, 08:38 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by primetimeguy View Post

Why, do you carry your TV from room to room with you?

Well I will be in college so I may have to move alot. That's why I thought the Slimfit would be nice, I think I can handle a 120 lb. TV but 200 lbs. may be annoying when if I switch room or just moving out for the summer and back in the next fall. I'm on a very tight budget as well so that's the primary reason I'm looking at CRT. Do you think the new Slimfits which supposedly fixed the geometry issues of the old models will be competitive with say a Bravia LCD in terms of PQ? And are the new Slimfits really full 1920x1080i? That just seems to good to be true since the XBR960 is like 1440x1080i.
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post #14 of 172 Old 07-07-2007, 10:30 AM
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No, most of the HD CRTs are 853x1080i. Which is basically SDxHD resolution.

Sony XBR960n - nice to rods, mean to cones.
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post #15 of 172 Old 07-07-2007, 11:46 AM
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SFP Sony tubes are either 1440x1080 or 1401x1080.

Regular Sony tubes are ether 853x1080 or 847x1080.

Samsung sets are 800x1080, unless Samsung upgrated resolution on the latest models, which I doubt that they did.

Last I have heard, Pansonic and Toshiba sets are in 900x1080 - 1000x1080 range(I am not sure if newer Orion made Toshibas are still in 900x1080-1000x1080 range though).
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post #16 of 172 Old 07-07-2007, 12:22 PM
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Well if you plan to move a lot and don't really care that much on PQ then i would probably stick with an LCD for now.

PQ on the latest models are pretty good and the prices are dropping everyday..LCD's have finally gone mainstream in price which is a surprise to me since my first LCD from Samsung a 17" model retailed for $800 about 4 years ago..

Nowadays you can get and 32" LCD for under $500. It's amazing how fast these things went down in price.My next display when my sony dies will be an LCD.I figure i have only about a couple more years on my sony before it dies..Already had it for 4 1/2 years ...sony tubes in general generally don't last more than 8-10 years.
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post #17 of 172 Old 07-07-2007, 05:38 PM
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Quote:"...sony tubes in general generally don't last more than 8-10 years. "
This has not been my experience from the few Sonys I have had, nor from people I know.

Quote: " SFP Sony tubes are either 1440x1080 or 1401x1080.

Regular Sony tubes are ether 853x1080 or 847x1080. "

Its the second of the two numbers for both. People keep using 853, and 1440. Where do these numbers come from?
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post #18 of 172 Old 07-07-2007, 06:07 PM
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Its the second of the two numbers for both. People keep using 853, and 1440. Where do these numbers come from?

I recall someone in these forums measuring their set to have 1440 horizontal resolution by using memory stick. The second set of numbers comes from Sony marketing for first SFP tube in North America (xbr910). I also recall 1401 horizontal resolution being measured by some reviewers like CNET.

I listed both sets of numbers that are commonly referred here since they are close anyway.
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post #19 of 172 Old 07-07-2007, 06:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bkchurch View Post

Well I will be in college so I may have to move alot. That's why I thought the Slimfit would be nice, I think I can handle a 120 lb. TV but 200 lbs. may be annoying when if I switch room or just moving out for the summer and back in the next fall. I'm on a very tight budget as well so that's the primary reason I'm looking at CRT. Do you think the new Slimfits which supposedly fixed the geometry issues of the old models will be competitive with say a Bravia LCD in terms of PQ? And are the new Slimfits really full 1920x1080i? That just seems to good to be true since the XBR960 is like 1440x1080i.

If you are on a budget, and are on the move(which is the norm for college and your early years), get an LCD.

VIZIO'S(sold at Circuit City. The ones at Walmart are a little less featured) are a pretty good LCD for a nice cheap price.

32" will run you $599+tax, and the 37" will run you $799+tax.

Both have nice features and inputs for the price(PIP/POP/2 HDMI with 1080p capability/2 component with 480i/480p/1080i/720p capability/NTSC, ATSC, QAM Tuners.

A very nice LCD for the price.

I know this is the CRT forum, but I thought that would be the way to go, especially for a college kid.
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post #20 of 172 Old 07-08-2007, 02:16 AM
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I think some of these guys are kidding themselves. The only CRT that can compete with the sharpness of a 720p LCD is the 960. But good luck finding one of those. As far as resolution goes the 970 looks something halfway between an EDTV and a 720p HDTV. But it does do some things better like response times and blacks, and it doesn't have the motion blur that LCDs do. I guess you have to decide what is more important to you. Personally, I wish I had spent more on a top-of-the-line LCD ( Or that I had been looking for a HDTV when the 960 was available. ). But when I bought the 970 I didn't know that 1080i CRTs weren't really 1080i. I found out about that afterwards. I think the 970 is better than similarly priced LCDs, but I don't think it is as good as the high priced LCDs.
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post #21 of 172 Old 07-08-2007, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Wickerman1972 View Post

I think some of these guys are kidding themselves. The only CRT that can compete with the sharpness of a 720p LCD is the 960. But good luck finding one of those. As far as resolution goes the 970 looks something halfway between an EDTV and a 720p HDTV. But it does do some things better like response times and blacks, and it doesn't have the motion blur that LCDs do. I guess you have to decide what is more important to you. Personally, I wish I had spent more on a top-of-the-line LCD ( Or that I had been looking for a HDTV when the 960 was available. ). But when I bought the 970 I didn't know that 1080i CRTs weren't really 1080i. I found out about that afterwards. I think the 970 is better than similarly priced LCDs, but I don't think it is as good as the high priced LCDs.

Dude, the 970 is still a 1 megapixel tv, just like a 720p LCD. They both look just about the same in sharpness. The LCDs just always have the sharpness setting too high.

Sony XBR960n - nice to rods, mean to cones.
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post #22 of 172 Old 07-08-2007, 11:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avhed View Post

Quote:"...sony tubes in general generally don't last more than 8-10 years. "
This has not been my experience from the few Sonys I have had, nor from people I know.

Isnt 8-10 years for a TV pretty good anyway?
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post #23 of 172 Old 07-08-2007, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fugiot View Post

Dude, the 970 is still a 1 megapixel tv, just like a 720p LCD. They both look just about the same in sharpness. The LCDs just always have the sharpness setting too high.

Shhh...dont argue with Wickerman...he's got it all figured out...you know, the big Sony XBR970 scam we're all in on...just let it drop...
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post #24 of 172 Old 07-08-2007, 11:37 AM
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Also keep in mind you're comparing a Digital fixed pixel display (LCD) to an Analog display (CRT) ... LCDs are capable of a sharper picture regardless of sharpness settings, especially noticeable when comparing text clarity on PC (I currently run a LCD & CRT side by side) of course theres more to picture quality than sharpness which is why I still prefer CRT overall.
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post #25 of 172 Old 07-08-2007, 11:41 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by fugiot View Post

Dude, the 970 is still a 1 megapixel tv, just like a 720p LCD. They both look just about the same in sharpness. The LCDs just always have the sharpness setting too high.

It may be 1 megepixel but it's vertical resolution of 853 isn't going to be enough to resolve all the detail of a 720p signal with 1280 vertical lines of resolution, that's been one of my bigger concerns and add to that it's going to have to scale the 720 horizontal lines to 1080 and I can see an LCD displaying a fair bit more detail, please correct me if I'm wrong. I think I may go LCD though based on the situation I'm in, I think I can handle $800 for a 37" Vizio besides the last one I saw in Sam's Club wasn't calibrated and it still looked pretty good especially given the price.
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post #26 of 172 Old 07-08-2007, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fugiot View Post

Dude, the 970 is still a 1 megapixel tv, just like a 720p LCD. They both look just about the same in sharpness. The LCDs just always have the sharpness setting too high.

So I guess that progressive vs interlaced means nothing then, eh? Look, I don't say it's less sharp than a LCD because I want it to be. It's the TV I have. But there is no denying that a 720p LCD is more HD looking.
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post #27 of 172 Old 07-08-2007, 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by WJonathan View Post

Isnt 8-10 years for a TV pretty good anyway?

For a sony i would say so..

anyways i've been tweaking in the service menu yesterday trying to improve the sharpness of the display but for the love of me i just can't do it.This is where LCD really exceeds in pure sharpness.

I guess what im trying to achieve with my sony 34HS420 just isn't possible given the display technology and resolution. it's barely 720p.

Well i'm looking to upgrade sooner than later..had the tv going on almost 5 years now and am looking to sell it for an LCD instead.I'll probably get flamed but hey i kind of want the sharper picture from and LCD at least it's easier on the eyes plus less radiation output.

I was going to upgrade anyways since i'm moving my room around and with the behemoth that the 34" Sony 34hs420 the way it is it takes up quite a lot of my room.

The LCD's today are pretty solid in PQ, blacks don't bug me since heck even on my Sony CRT it's hard to get great blacks without totally crushing shadow detail.

anyways this is probably the wrong forum for saying this but if anybodys interested in a Sony 34" 34HS420 let me know and PM me..

I'm willing to sell it pretty cheap..local pickup would be prefured but i would ship it with insurance if that be the case.

clubaquatica@hotmail.com if anybodys interested.
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post #28 of 172 Old 07-08-2007, 03:00 PM
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whatcha gonna upgrade to?
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post #29 of 172 Old 07-08-2007, 03:42 PM
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Probably a smaller LCD 32" model.. i realized after all these years that my sony was actually too big for my room.. lol

More or less for the sharper picture and more convinience of freeing up room in my bedroom plus most of the games i play on 360 are 720p and i figured might as well get a tv that does it natively. because i plan to get a PS3 as well very soon and since the games are pretty much 720p/1080p i figured an LCD would be a good choice for it.

I was planning on upgrading anyways,i figure for the time i owned it, (about 4-5 years) and the way next gen games are going with 720p this gen i might as well get with the times if i want to get the most out of my investment with gaming.

I'd consider a plasma but i really don't need anything bigger than 32"...plus being a big gamer i would always worry about burn-in.
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post #30 of 172 Old 07-08-2007, 05:22 PM
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With a CRT you have constant focus issues that LCD never has to deal with. The brighter the contrast on a CRT, the less well focused the picture is. Even at a low contrast setting, there is still a significant loss of focus.
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