Sony KV-34HS510 Will Not Turn On - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 49 Old 02-12-2008, 05:04 PM - Thread Starter
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I noticed this evening that my 3 year old Sony will not turn on! Its a 34" wide screen, Triniton (KV-34HS510).

When I press the power button, it clicks a few times, then returns to "ready" mode (standby? red light is blinking). If I unplug, then replug, I can hear the tube power up, then the same relay clicking sounds. Pressing the power button does the same as before.

Any ideas?

Mike

I am sitting there at Seaworld, eating a fish sandwich for lunch when it suddenly occurs to me that I might be eating a slow learner!
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post #2 of 49 Old 02-12-2008, 05:10 PM
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There is a common failure mode of these sets that results in 6 or 7 blinks of the standby led. My 34HS510 suffered it over a year ago. I had the D-board replaced under an extended warranty. A very common cause of this problem is the failure of one or both of a pair of ICs on the D-board.

Check out this thread: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...ht=sony+blinks

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post #3 of 49 Old 02-12-2008, 05:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Yes, 6 blinks. Can I buy the board?

Mike

I am sitting there at Seaworld, eating a fish sandwich for lunch when it suddenly occurs to me that I might be eating a slow learner!
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post #4 of 49 Old 02-12-2008, 06:09 PM - Thread Starter
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OK, I bought the chips... Worth $20 to see if I can fix it.

Mike

I am sitting there at Seaworld, eating a fish sandwich for lunch when it suddenly occurs to me that I might be eating a slow learner!
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post #5 of 49 Old 02-13-2008, 05:24 AM - Thread Starter
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Some folks at fixya.com told me it was not two IC's on the D board..., the answers on this problem seem to be quite varied.

Mike

I am sitting there at Seaworld, eating a fish sandwich for lunch when it suddenly occurs to me that I might be eating a slow learner!
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post #6 of 49 Old 02-13-2008, 06:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bomelia View Post

Some folks at fixya.com told me it was not two IC's on the D board..., the answers on this problem seem to be quite varied.

Mike

Please provide a link to the discussion you refer to. No one can troubleshoot and/or repair your set over the internet. That includes AVSForum, Agoraquest and Fixya. I simply pointed you to a discussion, concerning a very common failure mode of the Sony crt sets, wherein a number of owners have been able to fix their sets.

BTW, how many times does your standby led blink?

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post #7 of 49 Old 02-13-2008, 07:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bomelia View Post

Some folks at fixya.com told me it was not two IC's on the D board..., the answers on this problem seem to be quite varied.

Mike

Mike,

As raouliii noted, replacing the ICs is just a fix that has worked for other Sony owners. It's a gamble without any board level diagnostics. Try a google seach for your KV-34HS510 model number and "6 blinks", "6 flashes", "six blinks", etc.

Also does your 6 blink pattern repeat? In other words, does the standby light blink 6 times, pause and then blink 6 times again? If it doesn't repeat, it's not a diagnostic code.

If you do decide to replace the MCZ3001D ICs, seriously consider the use of 18 pin sockets. They are very inexpensive and they will make future repairs easy. They also reduce the risk of overheating the ICs on installation and they allow an easy test fit of the ICs before the sockets are installed. (You may need to bend the IC pins slightly to align them with the pin holes.)

Good luck.
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post #8 of 49 Old 02-13-2008, 12:16 PM - Thread Starter
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raouliii, Robert,

It is a 6 blink repeating pattern. It does appear to be a diagnostic. I will use the the plastic 18 pin inserts. Parts are on the way.

Mike

I am sitting there at Seaworld, eating a fish sandwich for lunch when it suddenly occurs to me that I might be eating a slow learner!
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post #9 of 49 Old 02-13-2008, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bomelia View Post

raouliii, Robert,

It is a 6 blink repeating pattern. It does appear to be a diagnostic. I will use the the plastic 18 pin inserts. Parts are on the way.

Mike

Best of luck with your repair.

If you haven't done a lot of soldering, I posted some soldering tips in the following Agorquest forum thread:

http://agoraquest.com/viewtopic.php?...page_number=10
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post #10 of 49 Old 02-13-2008, 03:40 PM - Thread Starter
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One more thing. When I came home, I hit the power button... tube energized, then relays clicked and back to red blinking light. This time I get 7 blinks instead of 6!

Mike

I am sitting there at Seaworld, eating a fish sandwich for lunch when it suddenly occurs to me that I might be eating a slow learner!
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post #11 of 49 Old 02-13-2008, 04:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bomelia View Post

One more thing. When I came home, I hit the power button... tube energized, then relays clicked and back to red blinking light. This time I get 7 blinks instead of 6!

Mike

FWIW, over the course of about two weeks my standby light flashed 7, 6 and then 5 times. But these were non-repeating codes.

Also, as a trick that may work temporarily, you might be able to get your TV to turn on by pressing the power button on the remote over and over again. That worked for a while with my TV.
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post #12 of 49 Old 02-13-2008, 05:18 PM - Thread Starter
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I spoke with an EE friend of mine (I'm an ME, normally we get EEs to do our dirty work). He suggested gently snipping each pin wire to make removal easier. Anybody try that before?

Mike

I am sitting there at Seaworld, eating a fish sandwich for lunch when it suddenly occurs to me that I might be eating a slow learner!
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post #13 of 49 Old 02-13-2008, 08:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bomelia View Post

I spoke with an EE friend of mine (I'm an ME, normally we get EEs to do our dirty work). He suggested gently snipping each pin wire to make removal easier. Anybody try that before?

Mike

Yes, that's exactly the technique that I used to remove the ICs from my set.

I wrote the following in the "soldering tips" post that I linked above (I'm "BobF" over on Agoraquest.com):

Before desoldering, you might want to remove the body of the IC by clipping each of the legs off. This is a suggestion that a local Sony service technician and it's the technique that I used. This allows you to desolder one leg at a time and you don't have to heat multiple legs at the same time to pull the IC. You can also clip all the legs on one side to allow you to bend the body of the IC up to allow easier access to the opposite row.

Leave as much of the legs in place as possible. A taller leg will be easier to grab when you want to pull it out. Use a very small shear cutter tool that you can find in an electroincs store. I bought an $4.99 Xcelite 170M at my local Fry's Electronics and that worked fine. Here's what one of these shear tools looks like:

http://www.remelectronics.com/Showca...nShowcaseID=15

This tool needs to be small so that you can reach the legs without being blocked by the surrounding components on the board. I actually slid the rubber handles off the tool to allow for even easier access in some of the tighter spots.

After cutting the legs off, I removed as much solder as possible from the bottom of the circuit board. (The IC locations are labeled on both sides of the circuit board.)

After desoldering, I grabbed each leg on the top side with a hemostat and heated the leg from the bottom with the soldering iron. If you have a temperature controlled soldering station, I read in an electronics repair book that a temperature of 665 to 680 degrees F works well for desoldering. That's the temperature range that I used.

Be careful not to pull up any of the surrounding circuit board trace material.

After all of the legs were pulled I used soldering wick to remove any remaining solder in the pin holes. A bright light applied behind the circuit board can help you identify the pin holes where more solder needs to be removed


Bob
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post #14 of 49 Old 02-14-2008, 07:38 PM - Thread Starter
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I have yet to open the back of the set, and I have no idea which bourd is the D Board. Help? Schematics? Or does it have a big fat D emblazoned on it!?

Also, was it easier to remove the board before working on it?

Mike

I am sitting there at Seaworld, eating a fish sandwich for lunch when it suddenly occurs to me that I might be eating a slow learner!
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post #15 of 49 Old 02-14-2008, 08:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bomelia View Post

I have yet to open the back of the set, and I have no idea which bourd is the D Board. Help? Schematics? Or does it have a big fat D emblazoned on it!?

Also, was it easier to remove the board before working on it?

Mike

Actually, it does have a big fat D on it But it may be hard to see, its in the middle of the board, I believe. The D-board has a three or four inch black and gray component (flyback transformer) on it with a stiff/thick red wire that runs up to the tube anode and a couple of wires running to the tube neck boards. Looking from the rear, the D-board is on the left. IC8002 and IC6501 (both MCZ3001) are located between the flyback and the two largest capacitors (metal cylinders) on the board.

According to the service manual, there is a service position, wherein the bottom section, D-board + the rest, can be rotated up so that the bottom of the boards are accessable. This is done by lifting levers on the right and left of the chassis bracket. Your other option is to remove the board, however the connections on the flyback are very tricky and can be broken if not detached correctly.

Your EE friend must have given you a few tips already, but I'll add some. Make note of the orientation of the ICs and make sure the sockets and new ICs are oriented the same. Most ICs and sockets have some type of dot, indentation or mark that denotes the pin 1 end of the chip. According to the schematic, pin 1 is oriented to the closest edge of the board, or left side of the board when looking from the rear of the set for both MCZ3001 chips.

Be careful to not damage the traces on the board. Desoldering braid works very well in clearing solder from the holes. I agree with RobertF that installing sockets is a good idea.

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post #16 of 49 Old 02-15-2008, 11:28 AM
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That's an excellent and very helpful post by raouliii.

The comment about the tricky flyback wires is especially useful. I struggled with the two flyback wires during my repair. I was never able to disconnect either of them at the flyback end. I disconnected one wire at the other end at the tube mounted "Anode Cap". And I ended up cutting the other wire that ran to the yoke-mounted C-Board. (I spliced that wire back together to complete the repair.)
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post #17 of 49 Old 02-17-2008, 02:05 PM - Thread Starter
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OK, I have the board in a workable position. On each of the ics, there are 2 pins NOT soldered. Assume I should do the same with the sockets...

I am sitting there at Seaworld, eating a fish sandwich for lunch when it suddenly occurs to me that I might be eating a slow learner!
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post #18 of 49 Old 02-17-2008, 02:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertF View Post

That's an excellent and very helpful post by raouliii.

The comment about the tricky flyback wires is especially useful. I struggled with the two flyback wires during my repair. I was never able to disconnect either of them at the flyback end. I disconnected one wire at the other end at the tube mounted "Anode Cap". And I ended up cutting the other wire that ran to the yoke-mounted C-Board. (I spliced that wire back together to complete the repair.)

I don't think I would have the guts to do that! Never had a problem after that? I would assume those are very high voltage wires...

I did get the anode cap loose, that let me put the board into a useful postion.

Mike

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post #19 of 49 Old 02-17-2008, 03:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Well, it powered up! I have not screwed all the pieces back together, but I was cranked enough to stop and post this.

Technical note. I did not snip the IC legs. Did not have a tool for that. However, the desoldering braid worked wonders, sucked all the solder out. I just slipped a very small eyeglass scewdriver under the IC, and it popped right out. Resoldered in the sockets and then gently worked the ICs back in (took a little adjusting of the legs to do that). Also, before I removed them, I marked one end of each old IC with a red sharpie so I could discern proper orientation for reinsertion of new IC.

With regards to the board, I removed all of the screws, popped the connector bars open (they hinge on the other board, 4 of them). Disconnected all plug wires, and pulled it out. I also disconnected the red anode wired from the top of the tube... not much to that at all, just pull back the rubber flap, and squeeze the annode clip and pull out. I did not disconnect the other two wires from the flyback transformer (whatever that means). I now had plenty of room to move the board arround, desolder and so on.

My wife is impressed.

Thanks so much, hope the repair holds!

Mike

I am sitting there at Seaworld, eating a fish sandwich for lunch when it suddenly occurs to me that I might be eating a slow learner!
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post #20 of 49 Old 02-17-2008, 07:09 PM
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Congratulations on the successful repair.

Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin
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post #21 of 49 Old 02-17-2008, 07:56 PM
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Yes, congratulations on the successful repair!

Great job!
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post #22 of 49 Old 02-17-2008, 09:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Thank YOU!

It is interesting to note that the folks at FixYa.com (three of them) all reccomended calling a repair person (or misdiagnosed the problem completely). Not sure what is up with that. But I did find corroborating evidence there with other folks who had the same problem.

Maybe my experience and technical note will help someone else.

The Internet is awsome, huh?

Mike

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post #23 of 49 Old 02-18-2008, 09:04 AM - Thread Starter
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Robert, how long has your repair lasted?

A fellow over at FixYa keeps telling me this repair will not last... that there is an upstream problem that casues the ICs to fail in the first place. Look, 2 chips for $16 is fine if I only have to replace once a year. The real problem is getting into the set. Its heavy and difficult to work with. Not sure I want to do that too many times!! By the way, when I posted this, I WAS unsure what to do. Why did he just not tell me what to do?

Here are his comments:

The blinking 6 times error code means Low B+ (OCP/OVP) over current protect/over voltage protect. The +5 volt line could be overloaded or shorted or IC504 could be faulty. Three possible boards that these problems could be on. The A, B, or M boards. I suggest taking it to a Sony authorized service center if you're unsure of what to do.

C-Dog

Comment by C-Dog, posted on Feb 18, 2008
the ic's won't last. it's just a temp fix. i did that before and it will be dead again. just my experience

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post #24 of 49 Old 02-18-2008, 09:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bomelia View Post

Robert, how long has your repair lasted?

A fellow over at FixYa keeps telling me this repair will not last... that there is an upstream problem that casues the ICs to fail in the first place. Look, 2 chips for $16 is fine if I only have to replace once a year. The real problem is getting into the set. Its heavy and difficult to work with. Not sure I want to do that too many times!! By the way, when I posted this, I WAS unsure what to do. Why did he just not tell me what to do?

Here are his comments:

The blinking 6 times error code means Low B+ (OCP/OVP) over current protect/over voltage protect. The +5 volt line could be overloaded or shorted or IC504 could be faulty. Three possible boards that these problems could be on. The A, B, or M boards. I suggest taking it to a Sony authorized service center if you're unsure of what to do.

C-Dog

Comment by C-Dog, posted on Feb 18, 2008
the ic's won't last. it's just a temp fix. i did that before and it will be dead again. just my experience

I replaced the two ICs in my KV-36XBR400 in November of 2006. So they have been working perfectly for well over a year now.

For continuity, here's the reply I posted over on Agoraquest:

That's the first comment I've seen about the IC replacements being a temporary fix. The two replacement MCZ3001D ICs in my KV-36XBR400 have been working perfectly for well over a year now. And, should one or more of them fail again, replacement is a snap since I used 18-pin sockets.

And I haven't seen any other reports about the replacement ICs failing.

So, personally, I wouldn't worry about it.

Now there has been some discussion on this forum that there is an improved IC with the identifier "MCZ3001DB". But I haven't found any concrete information that this part is, in fact, improved. I used the original MCZ3001D ICs for my repair and, as I mentioned above, those have been working fine. (Use the forum only search engine to find "MCZ3001DB" if you want to read more about this.)

Bob
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post #25 of 49 Old 02-18-2008, 01:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Well, based on the less than helpfull (cryptic) solution I recieved at FixYa, I have to assume the posters must recieve $$ for users stepping up to the "premium" plan. No problem with that... must be the business plan over there. They suggest "its time to go t the service center", then the user weighs that against the "premium" plan, and decides to try that. Honestly if my tv completely blows up, the farthest it will get from my house under my power is to the curb.

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post #26 of 49 Old 02-20-2008, 05:50 PM - Thread Starter
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The repair person (c-dog, FixYa) has taken to belittling me for doing this fix. I don't know how much better I could have explained it to him. I told him I was not interested in hauling the set into a repair center and then spending (based on other posts) $300-$400 to fix a set that may be worth little more than that. It weighs 205 pounds, and is in a built in "cave" over the fireplace, 6 feet up. No way its coming out (except to go to the curb!).

Funny.

Mike

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post #27 of 49 Old 02-20-2008, 07:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bomelia View Post

The repair person (c-dog, FixYa) has taken to belittling me for doing this fix. I don't know how much better I could have explained it to him. I told him I was not interested in hauling the set into a repair center and then spending (based on other posts) $300-$400 to fix a set that may be worth little more than that. It weighs 205 pounds, and is in a built in "cave" over the fireplace, 6 feet up. No way its coming out (except to go to the curb!).

Funny.

Mike

Could you point me to this thread on fixya.com?

Nevermind, I found it.

Mike, pat yourself on the back for repairing your own set and don't worry about what C-dog has to say. His true colors came out when he hid behind a guest login.

Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin
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post #28 of 49 Old 02-20-2008, 07:53 PM
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You insulted his expertise by not doing it his way, lol. If your set works, I wouldn't worry about what another supposed expert thinks.
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post #29 of 49 Old 02-20-2008, 08:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Yes, he was not happy I did not do it his way.


Raouliii, I orignally rated "Thanks for Trying" (two yellows). But when he added his negative tone, I switched it.

Mike

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post #30 of 49 Old 02-20-2008, 08:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raouliii View Post

Mike, pat yourself on the back for repairing your own set and don't worry about what C-dog has to say. His true colors came out when he hid behind a guest login.

Well, I worked out with my trainer today, the best I can do is pat my head.

Mike

I am sitting there at Seaworld, eating a fish sandwich for lunch when it suddenly occurs to me that I might be eating a slow learner!
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