Official Panasonic PT-AE3000U OWNERS Thread. - Page 3 - AVS Forum
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post #61 of 4832 Old 10-31-2008, 04:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oraclation View Post

I put on 2 hrs and here is my initial criticism in order of importance:

--The black level floor is good, but not as impressive as I expected
--Brightness is borderline in Cinema1,2,3
--Slight color uniformity issue, more red on the left half of screen (hope it improves after ceiling mounting upside down)
--Sharpness is just adequate for 1080p
--Hard to tell for sure, but convergence appears only minor

PS3 BD>HDMI>AE3000 (15ft throw)>110" wide 2.35 Carada BW

FYI-I'm comparing to my Mits HD1000U 720p DLP w/800hrs

I'm using a 129" wide 2.37:1 screen... 1.16 gain.

I also found the Cinema modes a little dim and I liked the colors in Normal mode the best out of the box. That could change with some tweaking. Black levels seemed very good, though I have nothing to compare it to.

Brightness was also noticeably dimmer when switching between 16:9 and a zoomed out 2.35:1.. though after watching for a few minutes you get used to it.

I also noticed that out of the box, the sharpness is turned all the way down. I have not tried turning it up yet.

I haven't noticed any color uniformity or convergence issues... though in the case of the latter, I have no idea what I'd be looking for.

I had to do quite a bit of tweaking to get rockband2 to play smooth and in sync. I'm still trying to decide which frame creation setting (1, 2, off) and which frame processing (fast, normal) combination I like best.

More impressions to come later.


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post #62 of 4832 Old 10-31-2008, 04:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stew4msu View Post

Not really.

That same sentence has been typed in every screen shot thread since AVS was founded. True, screen shots don't tell the whole story, but they do tell a part of it and they're fun to look at.

It's hard to see that they reveal anything meaning full unless you have multiple photos of different PJs in the same location under the same conditions which is why I do take photos taken by some professional reviewers more seriously.

As to the fun you are absolutely right, and fortunately fun doesn't have to be meaningful

blu-ray Operas: 6
blu-ray Ballets : 1
There's a reason they're called the fine arts--buy them on blu-ray.
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post #63 of 4832 Old 10-31-2008, 04:54 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ][udson View Post

You are better off taking your cues from the pro reviewers out there, and yeah, seeing for yourself.

Good advice'Hell more than likely he does not even have a ae3000;Just trolling.Happen all the time here.
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post #64 of 4832 Old 10-31-2008, 05:43 AM
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Visual Apex is now shipping also.
I'll be getting mine today.
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post #65 of 4832 Old 10-31-2008, 06:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buddahead View Post

Good advice'Hell more than likely he does not even have a ae3000;Just trolling.Happen all the time here.

Are you saying because hes not gushing with superlatives about the AE3000 he must be trolling?
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post #66 of 4832 Old 10-31-2008, 06:07 AM
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One other thing I noticed yesterday when setting up my unit...

For just my cable box, I had a green bar on the right side. I then adjusted the digital horizontal adjustment from the menu and shifted the picture to the right. The bar went away, but then on the left side there was a bar where the picture was off. I then had to hit the overscan adjustment a few times to make the bar on the left go away.

When I say the picture was off... it was as if a small bar on the left side was slightly offset from the rest of the picture. Almost like when you do a stretch or horizon mode on an HDTV and the sides look wacky/distorted when the screen pans... but more so.

After I shifted and over scanned, all was well with the world.

The PS3 didn't have this issue, it was just my cable box.


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post #67 of 4832 Old 10-31-2008, 06:15 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gbickle View Post

Are you saying because hes not gushing with superlatives about the AE3000 he must be trolling?

I really met' do not beleive everything you read here!
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post #68 of 4832 Old 10-31-2008, 08:58 AM
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The couple of 'less that glowing' comments I have seen about brightness come from those of you with a 2.35:1 screen. When you zoom out, to as in your case, Jamis, a 129" 2.35:1 wide screen, that is the equivalent of showing on an approx. 145" diagonal 16x9 screen.

Lets assume the measurements from a popular projector review site are corrrect, and lets use the Cinema 3 mode, as it is the highest output "cinema" mode, at 566 lumens.

In this mode watching 2.35:1 movies at 1.16 gain (Sheerweave, perhaps?), you are watching an image of right at 10 foot-lamberts, which is too dim, IMO. You would need to be in a higher output mode for acceptable brightness. Of course, in the other cinema modes, the results would be even worse.

When zooming in to watch 16x9 material centered on your screen, those numbers in the same mode will improve dramatically, though. You will see almost 18 foot-lamberts in this case, a dramatic improvement in brightness. Quite bright actually.

Also, note that these numbers will decline even further as the bulb ages. Forcing you to either use a different output mode, or live with the dimmer image.

The numbers posted on that "popular projector review" site by no means make the Panny out to be a dim projector. Actually, it measures out quite favorably.

What this really underscores is the importance of pre-planning your screen size in accordance with your projector's brightness.




Quote:
Originally Posted by jamis View Post

I'm using a 129" wide 2.37:1 screen... 1.16 gain.

I also found the Cinema modes a little dim and I liked the colors in Normal mode the best out of the box. That could change with some tweaking. Black levels seemed very good, though I have nothing to compare it to.

Brightness was also noticeably dimmer when switching between 16:9 and a zoomed out 2.35:1.. though after watching for a few minutes you get used to it.

I also noticed that out of the box, the sharpness is turned all the way down. I have not tried turning it up yet.

I haven't noticed any color uniformity or convergence issues... though in the case of the latter, I have no idea what I'd be looking for.

I had to do quite a bit of tweaking to get rockband2 to play smooth and in sync. I'm still trying to decide which frame creation setting (1, 2, off) and which frame processing (fast, normal) combination I like best.

More impressions to come later.

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post #69 of 4832 Old 10-31-2008, 09:04 AM
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This is not unusual for the output of a cable box. You may also find that there is various "garbage" around the outside of the image on different channels, and many times becomes noticeable when displaying sources "pixel-perfect". That is what the overscan and other shift adjustments are for, although the overscan settings can lower over-all picture clarity.

This is a potential issue for all HDTV owners, not just us projector enthusiasts.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jamis View Post

One other thing I noticed yesterday when setting up my unit...

For just my cable box, I had a green bar on the right side. I then adjusted the digital horizontal adjustment from the menu and shifted the picture to the right. The bar went away, but then on the left side there was a bar where the picture was off. I then had to hit the overscan adjustment a few times to make the bar on the left go away.

When I say the picture was off... it was as if a small bar on the left side was slightly offset from the rest of the picture. Almost like when you do a stretch or horizon mode on an HDTV and the sides look wacky/distorted when the screen pans... but more so.

After I shifted and over scanned, all was well with the world.

The PS3 didn't have this issue, it was just my cable box.

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post #70 of 4832 Old 10-31-2008, 09:24 AM
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Good points above on the brightness. All stuff I took into consideration, so I was not surprised with the dimmer 2.35 image. I'd say that 80% of my viewing is 16:9, so a somewhat dimmer picture on the 2.35 stuff isn't that big of a deal to me. It was still an acceptable picture in my light controlled room... I just wanted to mention that it was noticeable is all.


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post #71 of 4832 Old 10-31-2008, 09:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by conradjohnsonfan View Post

This is not unusual for the output of a cable box. You may also find that there is various "garbage" around the outside of the image on different channels, and many times becomes noticeable when displaying sources "pixel-perfect". That is what the overscan and other shift adjustments are for, although the overscan settings can lower over-all picture clarity.

This is a potential issue for all HDTV owners, not just us projector enthusiasts.

Good to know. I calmed down after I realized it was only on the cable box and figured out the overscan.


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post #72 of 4832 Old 10-31-2008, 09:38 AM
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I am most interested in knowing how well the "black bars" blend into your setup when watching scope material..

I looked at a photo of your setup (very, very nice, BTW), and saw that surrounding your screen was pretty dark. Was wondering if this completely masked the black, or more appropriately, very dark gray, bars... And can you see any spillage on your ceiling?



Quote:
Originally Posted by jamis View Post

Good points above on the brightness. All stuff I took into consideration, so I was not surprised with the dimmer 2.35 image. I'd say that 80% of my viewing is 16:9, so a somewhat dimmer picture on the 2.35 stuff isn't that big of a deal to me. It was still an acceptable picture in my light controlled room... I just wanted to mention that it was noticeable is all.

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post #73 of 4832 Old 10-31-2008, 09:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by conradjohnsonfan View Post

I am most interested in knowing how well the "black bars" blend into your setup when watching scope material..

I looked at a photo of your setup (very, very nice, BTW), and saw that surrounding your screen was pretty dark. Was wondering if this completely masked the black, or more appropriately, very dark gray, bars... And can you see any spillage on your ceiling?

I couldn't see them at all (that I noticed). Between the black velvet frame, the black GoM fabric below and the black textured ceiling... it looked very good.

My ceiling did get a little reflection from the brightness of the screen, but it isn't distracting (to me) at all. The reflection is probably brighter than the bars would be.

(btw - it's an SmX screen - similar to the sheerweave).

I plan to take a few screen shots tonight. I'll try and get one in 16:9 and 2.35 with the same camera shutter settings.


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post #74 of 4832 Old 10-31-2008, 10:40 AM
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For gaming you for sure want frame creation off and fast processing on. Frame creation takes two 60Hz images from your source and makes an third frame between them so it plays back smoother (like oversampling for CDs) It takes two 24Hz frames from a 1080p24 movie and makes two oversampled frames for 96Hz playback. You really don't want to wait for all that image processing if you are gaming.
Warren.
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post #75 of 4832 Old 10-31-2008, 10:50 AM
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Mine came in today and I set it up to test it out briefly on my lunch break.

First thing, I don't know how anybody could consider this projector to be soft. I replaced a Sanyo PLV-Z4 and, the Panny in comparison looks plenty sharp to me. Maybe if I had another 1080p projector to compare it to I'd feel different, but I doubt it.

Second thing I noticed in my brief test, using the Frame creation in mode 2 caused a noticeable lip sync issue. Mode1 seemed to be better as far as lip sync goes, but I could barely tell it was doing anything. My receiver doesn't have any delay adjustments for LPCM signals, so I doubt I'll ever be using it with Blu Ray movies, maybe that's a good thing anyway as I'm not sure I like the effect to begin with.

Brandon
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post #76 of 4832 Old 10-31-2008, 10:57 AM
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I'd be much obliged if one of you lucky new owners could measure the diameter of the lens assembly. I need to fashion a projector window and want to make it as small as possible without encroaching on the lens.

Many thanks...Mike

-Mike
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post #77 of 4832 Old 10-31-2008, 11:00 AM
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That is what I was expecting with the frame creation. If you are going to use it, you will need to have a receiver that can handle the proper delay.



Quote:
Originally Posted by BrandonH View Post

Mine came in today and I set it up to test it out briefly on my lunch break.

First thing, I don't know how anybody could consider this projector to be soft. I replaced a Sanyo PLV-Z4 and, the Panny in comparison looks plenty sharp to me. Maybe if I had another 1080p projector to compare it to I'd feel different, but I doubt it.

Second thing I noticed in my brief test, using the Frame creation in mode 2 caused a noticeable lip sync issue. Mode1 seemed to be better as far as lip sync goes, but I could barely tell it was doing anything. My receiver doesn't have any delay adjustments for LPCM signals, so I doubt I'll ever be using it with Blu Ray movies, maybe that's a good thing anyway as I'm not sure I like the effect to begin with.

Brandon

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post #78 of 4832 Old 10-31-2008, 11:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamis View Post

One other thing I noticed yesterday when setting up my unit...

For just my cable box, I had a green bar on the right side. I then adjusted the digital horizontal adjustment from the menu and shifted the picture to the right. The bar went away, but then on the left side there was a bar where the picture was off. I then had to hit the overscan adjustment a few times to make the bar on the left go away.

When I say the picture was off... it was as if a small bar on the left side was slightly offset from the rest of the picture. Almost like when you do a stretch or horizon mode on an HDTV and the sides look wacky/distorted when the screen pans... but more so.

After I shifted and over scanned, all was well with the world.

The PS3 didn't have this issue, it was just my cable box.

jamis, if you are using comcast/motorola, set your hdmi out to DVI out. To me it looks better and the green line will disappear without a need for overscan.
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post #79 of 4832 Old 10-31-2008, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oraclation View Post

jamis, if you are using comcast/motorola, set your hdmi out to DVI out. To me it looks better and the green line will disappear without a need for overscan.

I'll see if I can do that. I do indeed have a motorola comcast box (with HDMI port).


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post #80 of 4832 Old 10-31-2008, 11:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamis View Post

I'm using a 129" wide 2.37:1 screen... 1.16 gain.

I also found the Cinema modes a little dim and I liked the colors in Normal mode the best out of the box. That could change with some tweaking. Black levels seemed very good, though I have nothing to compare it to.

Brightness was also noticeably dimmer when switching between 16:9 and a zoomed out 2.35:1.. though after watching for a few minutes you get used to it.

I also noticed that out of the box, the sharpness is turned all the way down. I have not tried turning it up yet.

I haven't noticed any color uniformity or convergence issues... though in the case of the latter, I have no idea what I'd be looking for.

I had to do quite a bit of tweaking to get rockband2 to play smooth and in sync. I'm still trying to decide which frame creation setting (1, 2, off) and which frame processing (fast, normal) combination I like best.

More impressions to come later.

Jamis, if you are using a PS3, change your theme/background color to white, then set the AE3000 to Color1 or Cinema1 and see if you notice any color uniformity from left to right. My AE3000 is slightly more red on the left side and more greenish on the right. If you do a Split screen of the PS3 menu, it may become more evident.

Mind you, it's very slight on mine and wasn't noticeable on Bladerunner. I need to try a movie with a lot of light gray to white scenes.

I'm planning to check the convergence with some single pixel test patterns next. If you look closely at the screen, you can see multi-colored pixels (welcome to world of lcd, i guess).
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post #81 of 4832 Old 10-31-2008, 11:36 AM
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A few first impressions:

PROS:

Best blacks I have ever seen on an LCD hands down. Black is really BLACK.

I like the frame interpolation feature alot. I tried some panning scenes on Blu-ray and instead of stuttering across the screen it is butter smooth.

Dynamic mode is painfully bright on a 160" screen. I tried playing some PS3 games and it hurt my eyes. I will basically never use this mode, it is too bright on a 2.8 gain screen. This projector will work great with ambient light if that is your thing.

The image is much richer, the colors more deep than my old HC5000.

In fact I would say the picture quality, as far as POP and depth and richness blows my old HC5000 out of the water.

CONS:

I HATE the lens cap. Taking it on and off is a chore and I keep thinking it is going to scratch the lens.

It is louder than my old HC5000.


Overall, I am very impressed inspite of the two minor complaints listed above. The PT-AE3000 has better picture quality than my old HC5000 by a mile, and I would say that it also looks as good as the the only other projector I have demoed recently, a friend's Infocus IN83.
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post #82 of 4832 Old 10-31-2008, 11:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krinkle View Post

A few first impressions:

PROS:

Best blacks I have ever seen on an LCD hands down. Black is really BLACK.

I like the frame interpolation feature alot. I tried some panning scenes on Blu-ray and instead of stuttering across the screen it is butter smooth.

Dynamic mode is painfully bright on a 160" screen. I tried playing some PS3 games and it hurt my eyes. I will basically never use this mode, it is too bright on a 2.8 gain screen. This projector will work great with ambient light if that is your thing.

The image is much richer, the colors more deep than my old HC5000.

In fact I would say the picture quality, as far as POP and depth and richness blows my old HC5000 out of the water.

CONS:

I HATE the lens cap. Taking it on and off is a chore and I keep thinking it is going to scratch the lens.

It is louder than my old HC5000.


Overall, I am very impressed inspite of the two minor complaints listed above. The PT-AE3000 has better picture quality than my old HC5000 by a mile, and I would say that it also looks as good as the the only other projector I have demoed recently, a friend's Infocus IN83.


There we go...Great review. I hope you are right!! I am waiting for mine. I will be replacing a AX100. Also I had a 1080UB that I sent back. Brightness is VERY important to me as I have 133" hipower in a semi light controled room.

Intresting your comments on the IN83 as I was really close to getting it except it would notfit my room.

Stephen
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post #83 of 4832 Old 10-31-2008, 12:03 PM
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Reading this thread with much interest. I have been considering replacing my VPL-HS60 with a 1080p projector, but have been waiting for the right one. Maybe this is it...
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post #84 of 4832 Old 10-31-2008, 12:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by logain2000 View Post

Wow that soungs pretty negative...I guess I will see tomorrow

Looks like Art is saying the same:

http://www.projectorreviews.com/blog...or-first-look/
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post #85 of 4832 Old 10-31-2008, 12:39 PM
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I've read a couple of reviews of this PJ; from what I understand, the AE3000 does not let one turn on both Frame Creation and the Fast game mode, simultaneously.

Which makes sense: the one is impossible with the other!

Sorry, can't remember the review where the reviewer tried this, and found the Pj to be "idiot proof." (Evan Powell? Maybe in Art's blog entries? Dunno, can't remember.)

FYI

Anyway, this PJ is at the top of my list in the next maybe 6 months (replacing an old Vidikron). I've been getting more and more excitied about PJs for a few years, into the affordable 1080p era, but have held off (have moved three times in 2 years!). This one looks like a keeper!
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post #86 of 4832 Old 10-31-2008, 12:52 PM
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Brown truck showed up just before noon today with a triple boxed AE300U from ProViewDigital. Like many here, the eBay/cashback deal put me over the top. Still had a fair amount of trepidation as I've grown to love my excellent and reliable PT-AX100U over the years and wasn't sure if the significant additional investment would be worth the delta in performance.

Fortunately, it didn't take very long to have my fears set aside... this PJ is a whole different animal. My room isn't light controlled so I use a Da-Lite High Power screen with a gain of 2.8. In the middle of the afternoon on a sunny day the image was more than acceptable with the normal setting out of the box. Calibration and night viewing of high resolution sources have me very optimistic for great results.

BTW, from order to delivery, ProViewDigital took two days and the packaging was exceptional.

Looking forward to hearing from new owners regarding their calibation settings and setup preferences. Will post more impressions as I have the opportunity to spend some time with the new unit.

So far, real good.

A "fine" is a tax for doing wrong. A "tax" is a fine for doing well.
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post #87 of 4832 Old 10-31-2008, 01:27 PM
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Got mine yesterday from proviewdigital via eBay as well. Quick shipping and good communication w/tracking. Will try the PJ out this evening.

HD Media Keen Videosaurus
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post #88 of 4832 Old 10-31-2008, 02:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oraclation View Post

Looks like Art is saying the same:

http://www.projectorreviews.com/blog...or-first-look/

Not a bad review. I don't quite understand the several comparisons to the RS1. I do appreciate the comparisons to the Epson 1080UB because they are evenly matched in price and performance.
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post #89 of 4832 Old 10-31-2008, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by oraclation View Post

Looks like Art is saying the same:

http://www.projectorreviews.com/blog...or-first-look/

Actually I thought Art's blog was pretty positive, placing this projector right about where we thought it would be.

I wish he would use actual measurements in his reviews, though. That would mean a lot more to me than his opinions and marginally useful photos.

His impressions of black levels against the Epson are interesting, but don't mean near as much to me as if he had measurements.

Based on the cine4home measurements, the Epson UB and the Panny AE3000 both have native contrast ratio (calibrated) around 3000:1. Any difference between these two should be an affect of the dynamic contrast system. They should be very, very similar.

Art further admits his unit is a preproduction unit that has seen its rounds at the trade shows, so that is a bit disappointing, too.
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post #90 of 4832 Old 10-31-2008, 02:27 PM
 
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Originally Posted by oraclation View Post

Looks like Art is saying the same:

http://www.projectorreviews.com/blog...or-first-look/

How do you take negative from Art's first look.He says it is very good.You can't be that dum.
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