Official Panasonic PT-AE3000U OWNERS Thread. - Page 8 - AVS Forum
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post #211 of 4830 Old 11-02-2008, 09:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Wow does mine look blue!!!



I zoomed all the way in. Looks much worse than the ones posted before




OPINIONS???
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post #212 of 4830 Old 11-02-2008, 09:22 AM
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Regarding screen uniformity, it's worth while to look at the full range of grayscale full screen IRE values, not just 100%.

Aquafire... PP are very good and you should call them to discuss your problem. I believe they will work with you.

Darin... Are there any controls for changing the rate of the dynamic iris function? Regarding apparent room to boost contrast, there could be danger of clipping if Panasonic uses video processing in dark/mixed APL scenes to boost the brightness of white elements. This was the problem with earlier Sony DI/video processing, which seems to have been address on newer projectors.

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post #213 of 4830 Old 11-02-2008, 10:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aquafire View Post

Dr A and Parksar,

Dr A Can you please post pics of your "perfect" uniformity and "decent" convergence? And Parksar your red and green all over? Parksar how many hours on yours?

I want to compare...

thanks!

You have to trust me because I mounted back at 20 feet after geting an amazing improvement in focus at 12. It was too unstable on cofee table on top of reclining seats.
I can discribe it for you. You know how sharp the middle one pixel test look on my previous post #172. All corners were identical to that. Also full screen focus test the same crispness all 4 corners. My son who is infected with this PJperfectitis sugested white crosshatch, walked closer to screen and said "this is the first time I only see white lines." Regarding uniformity I will take a picture for you today from 20'. I don't think there is a difference from 12'.

Improvise, adapt to the environment, Darwin, **** happens, I Ching.
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post #214 of 4830 Old 11-02-2008, 10:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrA View Post

Bytehoven I owe you a drink I disconnected the PJ again, moved it to the minimum distance which is 12 feet from my 120" screen and suddenly all chromatic aberrations and focus problems are gone. I did not try the maximum position because it will dim the picture more and 24 feet away will be less practical.

Interesting. I would have expected the problem to increase when you moved the projector closer and used more zoom to fill the screen.

It might be worth some testing to try the projector at various ranges and zoom settings to see how the focus issues change.

If I recall correctly, a projector position that allows for the lowest zoom setting is actually brighter, because there is less light loss thru the lens. Also chromatic aberration will also usually be less because a smaller surface area of the lens elements is being used to project the image.

However, I suppose any lens uniformity issues could be exaggerated as you move toward a lower zoom setting and expand the image with a longer throw distance.

Hmmmm, I will have to check my AE3000 a a number of throw distances.

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post #215 of 4830 Old 11-02-2008, 10:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erik71 View Post

Has anyone experimented with audio delay while in Frame Creation Mode 2?

I'm trying to find the best setting on my receiver to delay the audio enough to sync up with the delayed video in FC M2. Right now I have it set to about a 100msec delay, but I'm still not completely satisfied. It is difficult to adjust since my receiver does not let me adjust the audio delay while watching the video. If only my receiver had an "autosync" function with a microphone and photodiode to measure the delay!

I happen to have a microphone and photodiode to do this...

Rock Band 2 has a feature that lets you calibrate audio and video lag by using the RB2 guitar. The guitar has a microphone and photodiode built into it. I connected HDMI directly from my Xbox360 to the AE3000U, and here is what I got:

Normal Frame Response, no Frame Creation - 30ms
Normal Frame Response, Frame Creation Mode 1 - 81ms
Normal Frame Response, Frame Creation Mode 2 - 130ms
Fast Frame Response, Frame Creation Mode 2 - 130ms

I'm not sure which reviewer found that FFR turned off frame creation when enabled, but that is obviously not the case.
Also, I ended up with the same measurement between normal frame response and fast frame response (with frame creation off). This is a bit confusing... Maybe fast frame response doesn't work with digital sources? I ran the test multiple times and came up with 30 or 31ms every time.
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post #216 of 4830 Old 11-02-2008, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by parksar View Post

Convergence/focus update:

Based on Dr. A's experiment, leaving the PJ mounted as is, I lowered zoom to min and tried to refocus. It seemed a bit better, though still off. I know this is not the same as actually moving the PJ, but candidly, I am not inclined to move my mount and rewire everything to accomodate a PJ when I am already operating well within its design limits. Plus, moving the PJ several feet in front of the back seats would bug me.

My old ax100 was much, much sharper, which shouldn't be the case, and compared to the 1080UB its not even close - the 1080 UB is razor sharp.

Zooming it back out to screen width size (approx 106") just shows how bad it is - red and green are just way off, and they are off all over the screen, not just in the corners or top, etc.

Guess I'll call PP Monday am.

Anybody else have one in the DC area yet? Would love to see what a good one looks like.

I know it's PITA to change the mounting position and agree with you that problems happen "operating well within its design limits" but unless we can get a different brand, the new AE3000s will have the same lens and may have the same focus problems at far distances. My AE 2000 had similar problems and dust blobs. I hope I am wrong. I got mine from projector point and they have 1 hour limit to return.
I would like to get response from people who have or have not the same focus problem, mounting distance and a picture of the problem.

Improvise, adapt to the environment, Darwin, **** happens, I Ching.
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post #217 of 4830 Old 11-02-2008, 11:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sveetsnelda View Post

I happen to have a microphone and photodiode to do this...

Rock Band 2 has a feature that lets you calibrate audio and video lag by using the RB2 guitar. The guitar has a microphone and photodiode built into it. I connected HDMI directly from my Xbox360 to the AE3000U, and here is what I got:

Normal Frame Response, no Frame Creation - 30ms
Normal Frame Response, Frame Creation Mode 1 - 81ms
Normal Frame Response, Frame Creation Mode 2 - 130ms
Fast Frame Response, Frame Creation Mode 2 - 130ms

I'm not sure which reviewer found that FFR turned off frame creation when enabled, but that is obviously not the case.
Also, I ended up with the same measurement between normal frame response and fast frame response (with frame creation off). This is a bit confusing... Maybe fast frame response doesn't work with digital sources? I ran the test multiple times and came up with 30 or 31ms every time.

Great, you're my hero! I entered 130ms audio delay into my receiver and the synchronization seems good to me.

As far as Fast Frame Response, the Projector Central review says that Frame Creation on overrides Frame Response Fast, so your results seem consistent (although I am surprised you don't measure a difference between FR normal and fast with FC off)

http://www.projectorcentral.com/pana...tor_review.htm

(By the way, we tried to activate Frame Creation while setting Frame Response to "fast" to see if the projector would explode. Apparently, the engineers anticipated this. The AE3000 simply defaults to Frame Creation and ignores the fast Frame Response command. The AE3000 knows when it is in the hands of a stupid user.)
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post #218 of 4830 Old 11-02-2008, 11:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tryingtimes View Post

I'm trying to get my head around why the modified ANSI CR was lower than the normal ANSI CR. This isn't what normally happens is it?

This is normal. For the modified ANSI CR the two black rectangles that are measured are surrounded on all 4 sides by white rectangles. For regular ANSI CR the darkest rectangles tend to be out toward the corners, like the 2 black rectangles that only have white rectangles on 2 sides.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bytehoven View Post

Darin... Are there any controls for changing the rate of the dynamic iris function?

I didn't see any, but there might be some in a service menu.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bytehoven View Post

Regarding apparent room to boost contrast, there could be danger of clipping if Panasonic uses video processing in dark/mixed APL scenes to boost the brightness of white elements. This was the problem with earlier Sony DI/video processing, which seems to have been address on newer projectors.

This is true and is one of the reasons I just left things as they were. There is an AVS test disc with a pretty good pattern for looking for some of this. It has a small ramp in the lower right corner and then most of the screen jumps to different levels from black to white and back.

--Darin

This is the AV Science Forum. Please don't be gullible and please do remember the saying, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."
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post #219 of 4830 Old 11-02-2008, 11:59 AM
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Newly in the market for a PJ and am looking at the 3000. However, as the owner of a 6000-hr Panny AE700 720p purchased fall 2004, I'm starting to see the dreaded "blue streaks" that others have reported on at this forum. Supposedly this is caused by "burn-in" or degradation of the blue polarizing filter(s). Economically, repair cannot be justified.

At this point I don't have confidence in Panasonic's longevity. When I upgrade to 1080p, I expect the unit to work for more than four years. Has Panasonic gotten a handle on this issue in later and current-generation LCD PJs?
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post #220 of 4830 Old 11-02-2008, 12:36 PM
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I don't think the polarizers failing are limited to panasonic lcd's. I've got a Studio Experience 20HD projector and have already had my blue polarizer go on me within 700 hours.

I just hope that the newer polarizers last longer than that.
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post #221 of 4830 Old 11-02-2008, 04:18 PM
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Does this Pj do vertical stretch?
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post #222 of 4830 Old 11-02-2008, 04:31 PM - Thread Starter
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post #223 of 4830 Old 11-02-2008, 05:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrandonH View Post

Mine will focus razor sharp, but I'm a little worried that it doesn't seem to be holding this focus after leaving the projector off for a while, the next time I turn it back on it seems like the focus is about two "clicks" of the remote off from where I had it set. I hope I'm wrong though. I haven't tested this too many times as I don't want to keep turning the projector off and on.

Hot damn, I think i figured out my Focus problem. I didn't realize that turning that silver ring on the front of the projector affected the focus so I think when I was putting on the lens cap and taking it of that I was slightly moving that ring making my focus just slightly out of wack. I'm not going to use the lens cap anymore and will just clean it when necessary. Aquafire, could something similar be happening to you?
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post #224 of 4830 Old 11-02-2008, 05:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Nice find! I did not realize this either. At the very least it will give me better control over the focus.

I just finished watching 60 minutes in HD and the entire show I was blown way by the image quality. Same goes for the NFL broadcasts Pre and Post game. So far Normal Mode seems to be the only one I like for all viewing.
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post #225 of 4830 Old 11-02-2008, 05:38 PM
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My projector should arrive in the next few days. I have not decided on a screen, but am considering a 2.35. My viewing habits are 60-40 TV vs. movies. Projector will be shelf mounted 13' from the screen in a fairly well light controlled basement.

Can someone help me understand how this projector handles variable aspect ratios? Specifically, if I have a 2.35 screen and want to watch a 16:9 football game on TV, what do I do? If I want to watch a 4:3 classic movie, what do I do?

Also, how will these images look on a 2.35 screen compared to a 16:9 screen? Will the top of the image be at the same height for 2.35, 16:9 and 4:3 material so the difference is just the width of the black bars on the sides?

Thanks.
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post #226 of 4830 Old 11-02-2008, 05:50 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aquafire View Post

Nice find! I did not realize this either. At the very least it will give me better control over the focus.

I just finished watching 60 minutes in HD and the entire show I was blown way by the image quality. Same goes for the NFL broadcasts Pre and Post game. So far Normal Mode seems to be the only one I like for all viewing.

Agreed...Normal mode is the ticket! Try these settings in a completely dark room... God I love this projector!!!


Picture Mode Normal
Contrast +10
brightness -8
Color -10
Tint 0
Sharpness +14
color Temp 0
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post #227 of 4830 Old 11-02-2008, 06:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrandonH View Post

Hot damn, I think i figured out my Focus problem. I didn't realize that turning that silver ring on the front of the projector affected the focus so I think when I was putting on the lens cap and taking it of that I was slightly moving that ring making my focus just slightly out of wack. I'm not going to use the lens cap anymore and will just clean it when necessary. Aquafire, could something similar be happening to you?


On that note I will say again, I HATE this lenscap. Worst thing about this PJ imho.
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post #228 of 4830 Old 11-02-2008, 06:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Switching my settings now.

I'm always amazed at how different members settings can vary. Brightness down!!! HMMMMM let me try it
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post #229 of 4830 Old 11-02-2008, 06:06 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aquafire View Post

Switching my settings now.

I'm always amazed at how different members settings can vary. Brightness down!!! HMMMMM let me try it

Yeah, with the brightness down it gives it that plasma inky black look...I love it!...Watching the Colts /Pats game on Directv in HD...Looks incredible!...Try some HD local channels too.
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post #230 of 4830 Old 11-02-2008, 06:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dogone View Post

Yeah, with the brightness down it gives it that plasma inky black look...I love it!...Watching the Colts /Pats game on Directv in HD...Looks incredible!...Try some HD local channels too.

A few screen shots of said game...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...9#post14993149


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post #231 of 4830 Old 11-02-2008, 08:15 PM
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parksar:

Sorry to read about the focus and convergence problems that you have. Problems such as this is why I don't have a 3K here tonight. There's no way in H*ll that I'll gamble with my $$$ and possibly end up paying a 15% restocking fee.

I was finally able to order the 3K today. I should get it on Thursday (ground shipping).

I've been waiting for a certain online dealer to get the Panny in stock, due to their 30 day, 100% refund, no hour limit, free shipping and no tax policy. Their price is the same as all of the dealers on this forum. Sadly, I can't post their link here for other members, due to forum rules.

OT:
While I hate not being able to post the link for others, I would have a different take on it if I was a forum sponsor.
e.g., say that I, as a dealer and forum sponsor, took out a small business loan at the bank and ordered a shipment of JVC RS20s. The shipment is due on Thursday. I log on to AVS to check on my customer base, with images of that new boat that I'll buy with the profits, in my head.

WTF!!! Some A*****e (Elkhunter???) posted a link to a non AVS sponsor, who will have RS20s in stock on Monday.

Within minutes, HORDES of AVS "D65ers" order from this so called dealer, depleting my customer base by 90% within hours.

On Thursday, my RS20 shipment arrives; leving me with interest to pay on the loan and long-term warehouse costs before I can move them. And no new boat.

I'd be SUPER p.o.'d......and rightly so.
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post #232 of 4830 Old 11-02-2008, 08:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elkhunter View Post

parksar:

Sorry to read about the focus and convergence problems that you have. Problems such as this is why I don't have a 3K here tonight. There's no way in H*ll that I'll gamble with my $$$ and possibly end up paying a 15% restocking fee.

I was finally able to order the 3K today. I should get it on Thursday (ground shipping).

I've been waiting for a certain online dealer to get the Panny in stock, due to their 30 day, 100% refund, no hour limit, free shipping and no tax policy. Their price is the same as all of the dealers on this forum. Sadly, I can't post their link here for other members, due to forum rules.

OT:
While I hate not being able to post the link for others, I would have a different take on it if I was a forum sponsor.
e.g., say that I, as a dealer and forum sponsor, took out a small business loan at the bank and ordered a shipment of JVC RS20s. The shipment is due on Thursday. I log on to AVS to check on my customer base, with images of that new boat that I'll buy with the profits, in my head.

WTF!!! Some A*****e (Elkhunter???) posted a link to a non AVS sponsor, who will have RS20s in stock on Monday.

Within minutes, HORDES of AVS "D65ers" order from this so called dealer, depleting my customer base by 90% within hours.

On Thursday, my RS20 shipment arrives; leving me with interest to pay on the loan and long-term warehouse costs before I can move them. And no new boat.

I'd be SUPER p.o.'d......and rightly so.

Careful.......you're thinking like a Republican......(ie. a logical person)

Can't have any of that before Tuesday!
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post #233 of 4830 Old 11-02-2008, 08:23 PM
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Unlimited run time is great and I think I know the dealer, they just didn't have stock last Wed/Thurs when I was shopping.

However, 4 hours is not too bad to decide if the AE3000 has problems or to compare to another projector.

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post #234 of 4830 Old 11-02-2008, 08:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AWBoy View Post

Careful.......you're thinking like a Republican......(ie. a logical person)

Can't have any of that before Tuesday!

Hey newbie. Take the political discussion elsewhere....
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post #235 of 4830 Old 11-02-2008, 09:00 PM
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Thank you for giving us some actual measurements. Your experience echos what I was expecting after reading the cine4home preview. They measured a native 3300:1 contrast ratio at D65, (which is excellent in itself for LCD, IMO), and got dynamic marks in the same mode at 13,000:1. In maximum brightness trim, their tester got over 60,000:1. With that kind of headroom, with some tweaking they expected that well over 13,000:1 could be achieved while maintaining a usable calibration, and your results again echo that.

I agree with you completely on the benefit of the JVC's native contrast ratio. That being said, from what I have read, the Panny's dynamic implementation is as good or better than any on the market, rendering a seamless effect in actual viewing. While some scenes that bounce from light to dark very quickly cannot take full advantage, there certainly will be many scenes that can. Alas the tradeoff of a dynamic contrast system.

For the money, though, sounds like a winner to me. I am putting it into a constant area setup, so the auto lens zoom/memory/digital shift system is what is putting it over the top versus other options.

I am curious as to your impression as to the lens quality, chomatic aberration, and focus. Also, what do you think of smoothscreen tech on this unit?


Thanks Darin!





Quote:
Originally Posted by darinp2 View Post

I plugged mine in tonight and I think I got a good one as far as convergence. With the center focused the corners are less in focus, with the upper left seaming like the most, but I don't think it is too bad in this regard (especially considering the price point).

I have the projector just overhead and behind at about 16' from a 10' wide High Power screen.

One minor quibble is that the remote doesn't work when I try to bounce it off the screen. Seems like I need to aim it at the projector to get it to work and even just shooting it behind me without taking care to make sure it was pointed close enough to the projector didn't always work. I tried the remote from my AE1000 and that works much better for me, so I've been using it.

I was wondering how well the dynamic iris would work with the Dynamic mode where it has been reported to give a dynamic CR that was about 10x the native CR. I tried the projector like this with some different material and didn't notice bad side effects from such a big multiplier, but also wondered if it was really giving that much. What I discovered with some measurements with basically factory defaults other than that I put it in Dynamic mode (bulb was on high or what they call Normal, Contrast and Brightness were at zero) was that there is an on/off CR range it will do if you only include right about when a full black image goes up and what it will do if you give it some time. At a little distance from the projector I measured white at about 11,000 lux. When I then put up a full black image and tried to measure what it was giving in the first second or so I got 1.67 lux. Then I counted in my head and estimated it took 10-15 seconds for the iris to slowly close down to settle at .24 lux. So, about 6600:1 on/off CR right away and about 46k:1 after some time.

I'm not reviewing projectors anymore, but if I was I think I might do something like report the on/off CR a projector with a DI can do within maybe 2 seconds and what they can do if given a lot of time with a blackout screen.

I should mention that since the projector was showing steps above reference white (video 235) out of the box, I'm sure I could have raised the Contrast settings and gotten somewhat higher numbers than above by crushing some of the stuff above video 235. I didn't measure any colors or adjust them in the menus though.

As far as ANSI CR, in Dynamic mode I measured 330:1 and for a modified ANSI CR of just measuring the center 4 rectangles (I think this is what Greg Rogers does) I measured about 250:1.

I've done some experimenting with the frame creation. I was checking out the fairly new Blu-ray of Hell Ride and there is a pan right at the beginning that shows the differences really well. I'll need to try it some more to see how many side effects there are, but I think I could get used to not seeing jumpy images on pans.

Overall it seems like a really nice projector for the price to me, but the on/off CR stuff I measured pushes me much more toward the RS20 for my theater room, since I don't consider on/off CR that takes 10-15 seconds to get there to really be much of a feature (especially when there isn't enough CR before that to blackout to my eyes most of the time) and expect the close to 40k:1 native on/off CR I think I'll get with the RS20 to give some nice visible improvement. I may keep the AE3000 as my second projector to use in my bedroom and move to another setup though.

--Darin

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post #236 of 4830 Old 11-02-2008, 09:55 PM
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Let me preface my comments by saying that this is my first front projector that I've owned and really spent any time watching.

That said, so far I've been very pleased with the 3000. I do find myself constantly trying to tweak the focus but I'm starting to think it has more to do with the input source. Everything I've watched so far has been on the Motorola cable box (mostly some football and movies on TNTHD).

I've found that Cinema 2 works nicely in total darkness and I like Normal when I have some ambient lights. I've been running in the Eco Mode and can't tell a huge difference except when there's a ton of ambient light.

My screen is a DIY SMX (bought the material 9 months ago), 118 inches 16x9. The lens is about 13 ft. from the screen.



Like I said, I've never owned a projector of any kind so if anyone has any general advice for a total newbie, I'd welcome it. I don't really have any good way to know whether my projector looks like it should (i.e. convergence issues, focus issues, dust blobs (??), etc.).

-Aaron
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post #237 of 4830 Old 11-03-2008, 01:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aquafire View Post

Dr A and Parksar,

Dr A Can you please post pics of your "perfect" uniformity and "decent" convergence? And Parksar your red and green all over? Parksar how many hours on yours?

I want to compare...

thanks!

aquafire,

I took my uniformity picture in normal mode.
I took convergence picture when projector mounted 20' away with no lens shift. That is why it shows only bottom 2/3 of the screen. no lens shift makes it better.
Zooming out also makes focus better from 20'. off course
picture is smaller now.
Surprisingly moving the PJ to the closest limit from screen in this same Zoomed out setting makes the picture extremely better. Maybe when zoomed out picture gets bigger in the front CA artifacts get less crowded around good pixels? plus brighter light make artifacts less prominent?
LL
LL
LL

Improvise, adapt to the environment, Darwin, **** happens, I Ching.
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post #238 of 4830 Old 11-03-2008, 04:20 AM
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Funny, I found the frame creation 2 setting a little "fake" looking, like when jets fly by quickly in Ironman - too "CGI'd" looking for me.

I guess to me, a little blur is more natural.

I've got about 15 hours on the unit now since Friday (some of it spent while programming my remote control and setting up the AVR, and I can't compare it to anything else, but we're pretty happy. The wife is VERY happy though, and has never let me listen to movies so loud before!

Gaming on dynamic was impressive, even during the day. I couldn't see any lag in Call of Duty on PS3. (Using "Fast" and FC off)

No replacement for displacement...
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post #239 of 4830 Old 11-03-2008, 07:33 AM
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BTW do you guys feel with all the rebates that are being given on the Epson 1080 UB, that there is a new version coming soon?
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post #240 of 4830 Old 11-03-2008, 07:37 AM - Thread Starter
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New Epson due in December.

Oh and they always have a new model coming
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