Sanyo Just Called Me RE: My Z2000 Repair - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 34 Old 02-11-2009, 10:18 AM - Thread Starter
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I sent my Z2000 in for repair, under warranty of course, for an LCD panel issue. I had yellow streak across my screen, according to my ISF tech, that is a sign of overheated panel. I had this issue occur within the 1st month of use.

I have used it for a yr before sending in to make sure nothing else would go on the PJ.

Anyway, the Sanyo repair tech called me to discuss the PJ. He replaced the LCD panel and is shippping it back but commented that LCD panels going bad due to overheating is not supposed to be covered under warranty. He also stated that the PJ is not designed for the amount of hrs. we put on it (8hrs per day). I know that bulb replacement will be a cost that i will have to accept, especially with the amount of hours in use. However, I am a bit concerned about longevity of the PJ and the LCD panel itself. I should be able to get more than 3000 hrs out of the PJ (i know the bulb is rated around 2k hrs).
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post #2 of 34 Old 02-11-2009, 10:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by houseofmouse View Post

I sent my Z2000 in for repair, under warranty of course, for an LCD panel issue. I had yellow streak across my screen, according to my ISF tech, that is a sign of overheated panel. I had this issue occur within the 1st month of use.

I have used it for a yr before sending in to make sure nothing else would go on the PJ.

Anyway, the Sanyo repair tech called me to discuss the PJ. He replaced the LCD panel and is shippping it back but commented that LCD panels going bad due to overheating is not supposed to be covered under warranty. He also stated that the PJ is not designed for the amount of hrs. we put on it (8hrs per day). I know that bulb replacement will be a cost that i will have to accept, especially with the amount of hours in use. However, I am a bit concerned about longevity of the PJ and the LCD panel itself. I should be able to get more than 3000 hrs out of the PJ (i know the bulb is rated around 2k hrs).

LCD panels/polarizers don't hold up well under regular extended use and more new warranties are now specifying that they will not cover your PJ if you use it for more than a certain number of hours at a time. Sometimes as little as 6 hours.

Maybe the inorganic panels will do better, we will see. They probably come with the specific warranty though.
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post #3 of 34 Old 02-11-2009, 10:34 AM
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So basically he said if a defect in the projector caused it to overheat, which caused LCD panel burn, the LCD panels wouldn't be covered under the warranty? WTF? I can understand the hour limitation, but it sounds like he's saying burned LCD panels aren't covered under any circumstances.
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post #4 of 34 Old 02-11-2009, 12:06 PM
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Sanyo has been notorious for several years (going back to the z2 fiasco) for trying not to honor their warranties.
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post #5 of 34 Old 02-11-2009, 12:16 PM
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I'd sell the projector and get a dlp, or a better lcd projector that works better for extended periods. Right now it sounds like you're on the road/path of expense and hurt when another polarizer wears out.
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post #6 of 34 Old 02-11-2009, 12:19 PM
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Typical Sanyo. Many Z1, Z2 & Z3 owners had warranty problems with Sanyo too. The Z2000 manual clearly states (just like the old Z2,Z3 & Z4 manuals stated) that the projector will turn itself off to protect itself from heat. If the unit has heat damage then the protection failed which is Sanyo's fault not yours.

Here's what page 44 of the Z2000 manual says:



LL

"What do you mean it's too loud? My ears aren't even bleeding yet!"

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post #7 of 34 Old 02-11-2009, 12:27 PM
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As for it not being sdesigned to run 8 hours at a time the manual states on page 19 that you only need to turn it off for 1 hours in a 24 hour period. So according to the manual you can run it a lot more than 8 hours at a time.

Sanyo is known for bulling people on warranty service so don't let them get away with it.


Here's what page 19 of the Z2000 manual says: See last paragraph



LL

"What do you mean it's too loud? My ears aren't even bleeding yet!"

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post #8 of 34 Old 02-11-2009, 12:30 PM
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houseofmouse,

If Sanyo gives you any trouble in the future get Legairre on a conference call with them and you'll get taken care of.



Seriously, though, he's provided all the info you need in the future to dispute Sanyo's refusal to replace polarizers/LCD panels under warranty. Just make sure you clean your filter regularly (and maybe take some pics of how clean it is before you send it in to them again).
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post #9 of 34 Old 02-11-2009, 12:53 PM - Thread Starter
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thanks everyone, you have all been a tremendous help.

the pj did shut itself down a few times in the first month i had it and then stopped. it was at that point that i saw the streaking and my ISF tech told me it was from overheating and to get it fixed before calibrating. It has never shut itself down since then so it prob is an issue with the PJ.

apart from price, i bought this pj because of the 3 yr warranty. like customer service for anything, we the consumers have to be educated and savvy in order to get the service we are due.

again, thanks so much for your help and when i need to send this unit in again, i will be armed with better info if they decide to challenge me on the warranty.
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post #10 of 34 Old 02-11-2009, 01:56 PM
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So what you guys are suggesting is to continue using the projector in the same manner even though 1) Sanyo has a history of reliability issues and 2) certain lcd panels are known degrade fast - FACT.

That's some anti-logic here. A better solution would be getting a projector that can withstand 8h of continuous use.

Haha.
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post #11 of 34 Old 02-11-2009, 02:17 PM
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Unless he can sell the projector, take the funds and buy another unit, or just pay out right for a new pj and take the loss, his only other option is to continue using it less hours each day.

"What do you mean it's too loud? My ears aren't even bleeding yet!"

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post #12 of 34 Old 02-11-2009, 02:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jumbo11 View Post

So what you guys are suggesting is to continue using the projector in the same manner even though 1) Sanyo has a history of reliability issues and 2) certain lcd panels are known degrade fast - FACT.

That's some anti-logic here. A better solution would be getting a projector that can withstand 8h of continuous use.

Haha.

not if your unemployed and can't afford to change PJ's. not if the mfr. has repaired it (which they did).


i know why it had originally overheated and corrected the problem after it happened a few (3-4) times. it has never overheated since then. i am more than willing to use the warranty to the fullest extent possible. with product unreliability and crappy customer service being rampant in all industries today, i have absolutely no faith that changing products or spending more money will eliminate having any problems. i used to buy top end products, no more. it seems that everything is either defective out of the box, breaks right away or just after the warranty. compound that with idiots for customer service and it is the perfect storm for us consumers. i have adopted a less is more philosophy, accepting the fact that no matter what, I have to push issues to get satisfaction. This applies to most everything in life, not just electronics.
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post #13 of 34 Old 02-11-2009, 02:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Legairre View Post

Unless he can sell the projector, take the funds and buy another unit, or just pay out right for a new pj and take the loss, his only other option is to continue using it less hours each day.

YES!!

That should be an obvious solution after the unit has already failed once.
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post #14 of 34 Old 02-11-2009, 02:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TF Ghost View Post

houseofmouse,

If Sanyo gives you any trouble in the future get Legairre on a conference call with them and you'll get taken care of.



Seriously, though, he's provided all the info you need in the future to dispute Sanyo's refusal to replace polarizers/LCD panels under warranty. Just make sure you clean your filter regularly (and maybe take some pics of how clean it is before you send it in to them again).

That's Ghost. Dealing with Sanyo means you have to be ready to show proof that their claims are false and that the manual contradicts what they say. When my Z2 had a problem it was the good folks here at AVS (that had already fought the battles with Sanyo) that taught me how to deal with them. When I had my problem I was ready with proof and ready to dispute their claims and I had no trouble because they couldn't say the unit had heat damage because I had already quoted them the manual. Their response was "the manual is wrong". My response was then my lawyer will be happy to quote the manual in court. After that my pj was fixed and returned without charge.

"What do you mean it's too loud? My ears aren't even bleeding yet!"

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post #15 of 34 Old 02-11-2009, 02:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jumbo11 View Post

YES!!

That should be an obvious solution after the unit has already failed once.

it seems you are missing one critical component of the LCD panel failing. It happened in the first month of the PJ. I can also tell you that during the 1st 3 mo. of the PJ's life in my home, it had much less use as I was monitoring hours per day (for various reasons).

so it wasn't the 8+ hrs per day usage during the last 12 mo. that caused it to fail. it was the fact that it overheated 3-4x and shut down as it was designed to, yet the panel failed. so now that it no longer overheats, i have every reason to believe the panel will hold up better. if not, then it's a call into sanyo and thanks to the help of the above posters, i will be better able to combat resistance from sanyo to honor their warranty. the majority of the time i find that in customer service issues, as long as you are 1 step ahead of the trained monkey on the other end of the line, you can eventually get satisfaction.

if you think constantly 'upgrading' eliminates QC issues, i can give you detailed examples of how that doesn't guarantee a trouble free existence either.
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post #16 of 34 Old 02-11-2009, 02:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Legairre View Post

That's Ghost. Dealing with Sanyo means you have to be ready to show proof that their claims are false and that the manual contradicts what they say. When my Z2 had a problem it was the good folks here at AVS (that had already fought the battles with Sanyo) that taught me how to deal with them. When I had my problem I was ready with proof and ready to dispute their claims and I had no trouble because they couldn't say the unit had heat damage because I had already quoted them the manual. Their response was "the manual is wrong". My response was then my lawyer will be happy to quote the manual in court. After that my pj was fixed and returned without charge.

ahhh...someone who understands me!
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post #17 of 34 Old 02-11-2009, 02:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by houseofmouse View Post

it seems you are missing one critical component of the LCD panel failing. It happened in the first month of the PJ. I can also tell you that during the 1st 3 mo. of the PJ's life in my home, it had much less use as I was monitoring hours per day (for various reasons).

so it wasn't the 8+ hrs per day usage during the last 12 mo. that caused it to fail. it was the fact that it overheated 3-4x and shut down as it was designed to, yet the panel failed. so now that it no longer overheats, i have every reason to believe the panel will hold up better. if not, then it's a call into sanyo and thanks to the help of the above posters, i will be better able to combat resistance from sanyo to honor their warranty. the majority of the time i find that in customer service issues, as long as you are 1 step ahead of the trained monkey on the other end of the line, you can eventually get satisfaction.

if you think constantly 'upgrading' eliminates QC issues, i can give you detailed examples of how that doesn't guarantee a trouble free existence either.

I don't think upgrading eliminates issues, houseofmouse.

It's your projector, you use it however you want. You're fully aware that LCD panels are prone to failure so use your judgment. I got nothing else to say.
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post #18 of 34 Old 02-11-2009, 02:35 PM
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I have to admit that due to LCD panels being prone to heat damage my new (if you can call 1 yr old new) projector is a DLP.

"What do you mean it's too loud? My ears aren't even bleeding yet!"

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post #19 of 34 Old 02-11-2009, 02:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jumbo11 View Post

...fully aware that LCD panels are prone to failure...

i agree with that...see, that's not so difficult
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post #20 of 34 Old 02-11-2009, 02:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Legairre View Post

I have to admit that due to LCD panels being prone to heat damage my new (if you can call 1 yr old new) projector is a DLP.

Its interesting though. You shouldn't really be afraid of the technology, thats why i stated perhaps getting a dlp or a new lcd that handles heat better. It really depends on how the projector is designed.
As an example, my very first projector was a sony vpl-px1, a business class lcd projector. Well, guess what? After i upgraded i gave it to a friend, and he still uses it to this day (though he's finally about to upgrade), and at this point it just recently breached the 20,000 hour mark! If you calculate that out, that is 2.283 years of constant running! And the projector has no sign of polarizer or lcd panel degradation.
If you ask me, having some of these lcd projectors today get polarizer and panel degradation after less time than the first lamps life is just ridiculous. But, i'm sure there are still some good, reliable lcd projectors out there, like the vpl-px1.
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post #21 of 34 Old 02-11-2009, 04:11 PM
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I understand but the vpl-px1 had an msrp of $7000. In the 2K range there seems to be a lot of burt panels. My Z2 had an MSRP of 3k and look what happened. 2 or 3K is way to much money to gamble with, especially if you've already been burned (no pun intended).

"What do you mean it's too loud? My ears aren't even bleeding yet!"

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post #22 of 34 Old 02-11-2009, 09:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jarrod1937 View Post

I'd sell the projector and get a dlp, or a better lcd projector that works better for extended periods. Right now it sounds like you're on the road/path of expense and hurt when another polarizer wears out.

Or get an LCOS unless you like rainbows
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post #23 of 34 Old 02-12-2009, 09:59 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by houseofmouse View Post

thanks everyone, you have all been a tremendous help.

the pj did shut itself down a few times in the first month i had it and then stopped. it was at that point that i saw the streaking and my ISF tech told me it was from overheating and to get it fixed before calibrating. It has never shut itself down since then so it prob is an issue with the PJ.

apart from price, i bought this pj because of the 3 yr warranty. like customer service for anything, we the consumers have to be educated and savvy in order to get the service we are due.

again, thanks so much for your help and when i need to send this unit in again, i will be armed with better info if they decide to challenge me on the warranty.

Word of advice. When the projector started having problems the first month, document it. Take pictures and send email to Sanyo with an explanation of the problem. Let them know that you are documenting the problem and will send it in for repair at a later date.
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post #24 of 34 Old 02-12-2009, 10:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by mjg100 View Post

Word of advice. When the projector started having problems the first month, document it. Take pictures and send email to Sanyo with an explanation of the problem. Let them know that you are documenting the problem and will send it in for repair at a later date.

good tip. thanks.
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post #25 of 34 Old 02-12-2009, 10:49 AM - Thread Starter
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I just got my pj back a couple of hours ago. so far so good. definitely no more yellow streaks. colors are more vibrant. i haven't done anything except pop in Monsters Inc in SD.

one thing i do notice is the dimensions of the pic are slightly different so i will have to tweak my screen borders at some point (just a painted diy screen for now)
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post #26 of 34 Old 02-12-2009, 12:16 PM
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Did I miss it? Why did it overheat originally?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rickster904 View Post

Did I miss it? Why did it overheat originally?

No, you did not miss it. I was wondering the same thing since OP said he new why it overheated 3 or 4 times.
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post #28 of 34 Old 02-12-2009, 02:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by rickster904 View Post

Did I miss it? Why did it overheat originally?

i had built a recessed shelf in the soffit at the back of my family room. i was careful to build it to the dimensions that allowed clearance for air flow per the PJ's manual. however, it shut down on me 2 times very shortly after installing the pj in the boxed shelf.

this was in mid march of 2007 and we had some days where we needed to crank the heat in the house. it seemed that was enough added heat to shut it down as the temp near the ceiling is considerably warmer than at the sitting or walking level. i experimented with extending the shelf with a cantilevered piece of plywood to pull the pj out of the box shelf so that the side vent could vent the heat directly into the room instead of against the sidewall of hte boxed shelf. it shut down on me 1x or 2x more as i experimented with how far out i had to extend the pj.

i ended up going to a ceiling mount bracket for the past year. however, when we open and close our back door, it causes enough of a vibration that sometimes moves the pj out of position. so, i will be building a larger boxed shelf with much more room for ventilation. if that doesn't work, then i will wire in a computer cooling fan inside the shelf. hopefully i don't have to resort to that.

the one thing i find to be a blessing and a curse is that PJ's have lots of variables that come into play. Some of which you can plan ahead for and some that would never be known until they manifest themselves. the blessing is that it gives an excuse to keep tinkering and tweaking. the curse is that there is continuous tinkering and tweaking...
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post #29 of 34 Old 02-12-2009, 04:17 PM
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Sounds like you need a better ceiling mount. Once I lock my PJ in the mount, you could hit it with a stick and it's still not going to move. Turn one bolt and it comes down very easy for maintenance.
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post #30 of 34 Old 02-12-2009, 07:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by reconlabtech View Post

Sounds like you need a better ceiling mount. Once I lock my PJ in the mount, you could hit it with a stick and it's still not going to move. Turn one bolt and it comes down very easy for maintenance.

you would be correct. i bought a dirt cheap ceiling mount that is flimsy. however, i originally intended for the pj to be recessed into the soffit. i didn't much care for the aesthetics of it hanging from the ceiling so in the end,i will just put it in the soffit. i just have to address the heating issue, which i believe will be solved by a wider shelf box.

the ceiling mount was only $18 and was intended as a temp fix anyway.
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