Help - My projector turns off when flipped upside-down - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 30 Old 07-13-2009, 05:27 PM - Thread Starter
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I have a Mitsubishi XD300U and it has worked well for me for years. Recently while my kids were playing the Xbox 360 it turned off without any warnings. We turned it back on and the lamp came on and then the projector shut off again in about 30 seconds. Tried different power cords, etc. Never would stay on longer than ~30 seconds.

I started trouble-shooting and eventually took my projector off the ceiling mount and brought it to my office to troubleshoot while on the phone with Mitsubishi's tech support. Well, in my office the projector worked fine.

I take it back up to my Theater and ceiling mount it again and boom, it turns off in 30 seconds again. I tried different power cables, different video cables and eventually something clicked in my brain and I tried running the projector while holding it upright. Worked fine again. As soon as I tipped it a bit past 90 degrees, it turned off again.

So the projector works when upright, but turns off when upside-down.


Here's my question, Mitsubishi says replacing the lamp will fix my problem, but that sounds really fishy to me. And since I don't know of any company that would accept a returned lamp (if that didn't fix my problem) I am really hesitant to spend $400 on a replacement lamp. My current lamp isn't terribly old and I have received no lamp warnings yet.

Does anyone have experience with this type of issue? Does this sound like a reasonable fix?

The tech support guy said he had a document from the parts department saying replacing the bulb fixes the problem, but he wouldn't email me a copy of the report. Since when does the parts department solve technical issues? This sounds like an excuse to sell more lamps.


To me this sounds like something is loose inside the projector. Maybe some sort of a sensor wire. When the projector's controller realizes it isn't getting a signal from whatever sensor is loose (a fan sensor or something?) it shuts off the projector to protect itself.

Any advice for me on this issue?

Thanks in advance.

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post #2 of 30 Old 07-14-2009, 08:54 AM
 
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That does sound really strange. Then angle of the projector should not do that. However if a new lamp will fix the issue try relampit.com for a new lamp. I have had a few of mine done there without a problem. Much cheaper then other stores ask for John
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post #3 of 30 Old 07-14-2009, 09:02 AM
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They could be right if the lamp filament is loose it could be causing the issue.

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post #4 of 30 Old 07-14-2009, 09:09 AM - Thread Starter
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I thought of that, but it turns on and works for about 20 seconds (showing the blue background and menu) when I power it on while upside-down. If the filament was loose, I would think it would flicker or wouldn't show light at all.

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post #5 of 30 Old 07-14-2009, 09:39 AM
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What filament? These lamps don't have filaments.
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post #6 of 30 Old 07-14-2009, 09:45 AM
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ok the anode and cathode could be loose in the ceramic base doe to thermal cycling

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post #7 of 30 Old 07-14-2009, 09:49 AM
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Okay, I can go with that. Interesting notion. That could explain a few similar issues I've had in the past with some units. I'll have to keep that in mind. Is that something you're seen and confirmed?
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post #8 of 30 Old 07-14-2009, 05:43 PM - Thread Starter
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So if the anode and cathode were loose, what would that do? How would that cause the projector to turn off? Would it reduce or increase the resistance across the bulb in a detectable manner? Would it cause the light to turn off completely?

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post #9 of 30 Old 07-14-2009, 07:23 PM
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Those are the leads on the lamp that carry the power to run the lamp. If one or both are loose, then contact is broken, the lamp shuts off and the projector detects a fault and powers down.

Unfortunately, the only way to be sure is try another lamp. If you know someone with the same make/model projector as you, you can try their lamp or try yours in their projector.
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post #10 of 30 Old 07-14-2009, 07:39 PM - Thread Starter
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So then how would one explain the fact that when I power the projector on when upside down it powers up just fine and runs for around 30 seconds (~20 seconds after the light starts hitting the screen) before shutting off? If contact were broken in the bulb I would expect the projector to never really power on. If contact were intermittent I would expect the projector to shut of at different times after power-on. Neither is the case.

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post #11 of 30 Old 07-14-2009, 07:58 PM
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No idea. It was just a possible explanation offered by another forum member.

It may NOT be the lamp, your projector may be pooched, but you'll never know if you don't try anything that we're suggesting. No matter who says what, it still comes down to you taking the time to perform some tests and troubleshooting steps.
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post #12 of 30 Old 07-14-2009, 08:04 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm just looking for a plausible explanation for why it might be the lamp so I can feel comfortable purchasing a new lamp.

I wish I knew someone with my model projector so I could test out some theories, but I don't know anyone. That was a good suggestion.

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post #13 of 30 Old 07-14-2009, 08:06 PM
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It is impossible for a working lamp of this type to have "loose" anodes/cathodes. Even further the projector would report it as being a lamp failure if this were the case, which i assume is not being shown after it shuts down (or else the op would have told us). However, it could very well be something in the path of the lamp.
Projectors actually are very touchy with cooling at different angles than they're designed for (think about it, hot air rises, so for it to have an appropriate venting the cooling system needs to be designed for specific angles of operation). If you're operating the projector at a different angle make sure there isn't any specific menu options that deal with different modes of operation. If the projector has a high altitude mode, try turning that on and see if it extends the time to shutoff.


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post #14 of 30 Old 07-16-2009, 08:12 PM - Thread Starter
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No weird angles. Just upside down (ceiling mount).

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post #15 of 30 Old 07-16-2009, 09:12 PM
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Some PJs automatically run with a higher fan speed in ceiling (inverted) mode versus table mount mode - it's part of the design. Is it possible the fan is culprit? Perhaps when it kicks to a higher speed it's triggering an auto shutoff for some reason? Perhaps a short or overload?

Of course this would only be a possible explanation if the PJ has an auto ceiling detect mode - some do. Pretty slim, but I would try letting it run for a while non-inverted to see if it shuts off when the fan speed eventually increases, or try putting the ceiling mode on when non-inverted.

Better yet, switch to high lamp mode while non-inverted to see what happens.
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post #16 of 30 Old 07-16-2009, 09:21 PM - Thread Starter
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I will try running it non-inverted for longer than I have (5-10 minutes). I suspect it is some sort of fan issue. I don't think there are any sensors that detects when it is inverted, but I really don't know.

From what I have read here it really sounds like this isn't a lamp issue. I might just take the projector into my local authorized repair shop.

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post #17 of 30 Old 07-17-2009, 12:03 AM
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Noticed you replied before I edited my post about running it in high lamp mode while non-inverted. That would definitely tell you if it's fan related.

My last two PJs have had auto ceiling mode detectors, so it's not a complete longshot. If the PJ shuts off consistently after inverting, I would think it's either that or some loose connection that's gravity related when the case is upside down. Since it doesn't happen immediately, but rather 20 - 30 seconds after inversion, my best guess is the auto ceiling/fan speed theory. If gravity was the culprit it would happen immediately.
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post #18 of 30 Old 07-17-2009, 08:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Okay, so it sounds like the issue could be one of two things. (Please correct me if I'm mistaken.)

1) The projector has a sensor that detects when it is inverted. When the projector is inverted it somehow runs differently than when it is upright. There is something wrong with the projector (probably a fan or a sensor in a fan) that is causing a safety mechanism to trigger when the projector senses it is inverted.

2) Almost the same as #1, but there is no inversion sensor. Instead there is a loose wire somewhere that disconnects when inverted. It is some sort of sensor wire which doesn't stop the projector from actually working, but instead triggers a safety mechanism. The reason the projector starts and runs while inverted is either because the sensor is only checked once a certain temperature is reached or it isn't checked until X seconds after startup.

If the cause is #1, and there is a way I can get the projector to duplicate the "inverted" running mode while upright, I should be able to get the projector to shut off even while upright.

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post #19 of 30 Old 07-17-2009, 09:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRooster View Post

1) The projector has a sensor that detects when it is inverted. When the projector is inverted it somehow runs differently than when it is upright. There is something wrong with the projector (probably a fan or a sensor in a fan) that is causing a safety mechanism to trigger when the projector senses it is inverted.

...If the cause is #1, and there is a way I can get the projector to duplicate the "inverted" running mode while upright, I should be able to get the projector to shut off even while upright.

Some (perhaps most) projectors are designed to run the fan higher in inverted mode, since heat is more of an issue near the ceiling than on a table or shelf. The fan does not wait for the heat sensor to speed it up, it automatically increases in speed just because the menu option for ceiling mode is selected. That would be the only difference.

Do you have the ceiling (inverted) option checked in the menu? If so, then this theory is probably shot down (the PJ would always use ceiling fan speed no matter what, and you would see the problem always). I think the only way this may be the problem is if you do not have ceiling mode checked, but the PJ has an inversion sensor and is using ceiling mode fan speed even though the option is not selected. That may explain the difference, but it's still a longshot.

The simple way to test if it's fan related is to run the PJ in high lamp mode while upright. High lamp mode will cause the fan to speed up to maximum in a hurry. I'd give that a shot.
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post #20 of 30 Old 07-17-2009, 09:57 AM - Thread Starter
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In the menu there is an option that selects how the image is displayed. It has four choices. Mirrored, Inverted, Mirrored & Inverted, and Normal. That is the only selection in the menu that would tell the projector that it is inverted. I can test the projector running upright with the image inverted to see if that makes a difference.

I don't remember a "High Lamp Mode" in the menu settings, but I can look for something similar.


There has to be some explanation as to why the projector waits 20-30 seconds before it shuts down when powered up while inverted. It must be some sort of built-in delay of some sort. Either temperature related or just a timer.

I am ordering a long cable so I can use the projector upright. The cable I have routed through my ceiling won't reach to the floor which is where I have to place the projector because it doesn't have lens shift.

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post #21 of 30 Old 07-17-2009, 10:37 AM
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I have an LP430 and there is a rocker switch inside the lamp door. A little tab pushes on the rocker switch and kills power when the door is removed.

I noticed mine is really soft, i wonder if yours may have one?

Look for a tab on the door and then look around inside the case under the door if there is any little slot the tab can fit up into. Maybe just adding a few layers of masking tape will depress the switch enough to keep it on.

If thats what its doing?

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post #22 of 30 Old 01-30-2010, 07:50 PM
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Did you ever get any resolution on this problem? My son-in law has the same one!
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post #23 of 30 Old 01-30-2010, 08:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Kinda. Since it was working right-side-up, I put it on the floor.

Recently however it decided to stop working right-side-up too. So I went ahead and bought a new projector because I didn't want to risk buying a new bulb that may or may not fix the problem. (Since you can't return bulbs.)

Days after I received my new projector I ran across my old bulb that I thought I had thrown away. So I thought I'd try it and see if it fixed the problem. Sure enough, the projector didn't shut down with the new bulb.

So even though it makes no sense to me, I would say you are probably safe getting a new bulb to fix the problem.

The question just becomes, is it worth $200-$300 to get a new bulb when you can get a better 720p projector for $300-$500 more? (I purchased the Epson Home Cinema 720.)

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post #24 of 30 Old 02-02-2010, 09:06 PM
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I have the same exact problem with my BenQ PE7700... very frustrating.... and my lamp only has 750 hours.
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post #25 of 30 Old 04-03-2012, 02:00 PM
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SOLVED!

Had exactly the same problem: projector switches off after 20 sec when mounted upside down (ceiling). When positioned on table everything was ok. Projector: Mitsubish HC6500. When it switches off the status LED flashes red/green, the other LED flashes green only.

SOLUTION: Turned out to be the mechnical diaphragm inside the projector. When mounted upside down it was slightly slow in responsing. Solved it by giving its spring one extra turn. To get there, you have to start unmounting things from the top, including both covers, metal plates, main board and cabling. Then you can unscrew the cover of the diaphragm which is in front of the lamp. Tighten the spring a bit abd remount everything. This must be a component not well designed by Mitsubishi. It seems too delicate for gravity effects. In any case, the above solved the problem in my case.
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post #26 of 30 Old 08-21-2012, 01:05 PM
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wiersma685 - I followed your steps given I'm having the same issue (replacing the lamp didn't help). Can you tell me where the "mechanical diaphragm" is in this picture? What spring should I tighten?

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post #27 of 30 Old 01-03-2013, 12:58 PM
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I did solve the issue on my Mitsubishi HC6500. Once you know it, the repair is really simple.
I located the iris, which I could easily unscrew from the unit (it is mounted close to the lamp, and serves to reduce lamp intensity in dark scenes). It has a spring that becomes weaker over the years. When upside-down the spring is vital to close and open the iris smoothly, which is something that my projector tests on boot-up. Even though the iris is not really important, if the test is not successful, the boot-up stops with an error message.

The repair was immensely simple: I gave the spring just an extra turn to give it a bit more pre-tension and after that all was ok. The project has been working fine since (I use it every day for many hours), and the error never occurred again.
Careful since the spring is delicate. Only a tiny bit of extra tension was enough (the extra turn).


Let me know if this helped.

Success.
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post #28 of 30 Old 01-03-2013, 01:08 PM
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It should be pretty close to the lamp. If I remember well it was a square object of about 10 x 10 cm, and about 1 cm thick, roughly. Look in the light path from lamp upwards to the projection unit. Is there something that resembles this description and that comes off easily?

If not, I can unmount my projector again to look inside and give you a more detailed advise.
Note that dismounting the iris was relatively easy, so no need to remove all the components on the photo. I remember that it slided out from in between the other components. Then when you have it in your hand you can do the repair in 1 minute.
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post #29 of 30 Old 01-03-2013, 06:07 PM
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Based on the title, I feel like the Fresh Prince of Bel Air has something to do with it.
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post #30 of 30 Old 02-11-2013, 12:46 PM
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I was having the same problem on my Planar PD7130 - lamp shutting off after about 20 seconds. I flipped it over to open it up, and somehow remembered this thread. It stays on when flipped, thanks for sharing!
I might just keep it flipped rather than tinkering with the insides. Do you think not tightening the diaphragm could cause problems down the line?
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