*Official* Optoma HD20 Thread - Page 138 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #4111 of 4136 Old 12-31-2015, 11:38 PM
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Hey Zenon, just wanted to thank you for always coming to everyone's rescue here when we have questions regarding the HD20. As I stated earlier mine is having issues displaying higher resolution files. We tried everything and it seems to be a bad dsp chip or what ever processes the video. It also seems to be getting worse, or maybe its just my mind playing tricks on me. Its a shame, it has the original bulb with only about 700hrs on it. Has never overheated or had any problems that would cause the chip to go bad. I had the vertical lines like most and with a simple squeeze those would go away. Unfortunately the cost of repair doesn't justify fixing it versus getting a new one. I purchased a new projector and its on its way but it will not be an Optoma. Too many problems with this one, left a bad impression with me. I decided to give the Vivitek H1168, cost me about the same new as a used HD25 or similar. Thanks again for all your help here and hope you and everyone else here have a great New Year.
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post #4112 of 4136 Old 01-01-2016, 12:34 AM
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Or buy the new projector now. lol. Not sure it's worth $2k to go with LCD for 1080p 3D. Do you not like any of the DLP 1080p 3D options out there?
Are the lcd bad compared to our dlp ? I was just looking for something flexible in mounting situation. 10 ft lens to screen 9 ft ceiling 92 inch screen. I was thinking the epson with lens shift would be pretty good but i also game a lot so they lag was a concern.

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post #4113 of 4136 Old 01-01-2016, 10:12 AM
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Are the lcd bad compared to our dlp ? I was just looking for something flexible in mounting situation. 10 ft lens to screen 9 ft ceiling 92 inch screen. I was thinking the epson with lens shift would be pretty good but i also game a lot so they lag was a concern.
I will not trash talk LCD projectors. They have their pros and cons. If mounting flexibility is a major issue, then you have almost no choice but to go with 3xLCD projectors when looking around $1,500 or less. Though the BenQ W7000 1080p DLP 3D does have vertical and horizontal lens shift because it is over $2k. It is also from 2012. So DLP with lens shift does exist. But generally cost over $2k and still very few models with it.

For LCD you generally have to look to see if there is a filter to maintain or not. Possible color convergence issues over time, though I honestly have never seen this happen myself so maybe that is no longer an issue. Lag can be an issue as you know. Though I have gamed on LCD projectors and the lag has never been an issue for me, but the ghosting can bother me more than the DLP RBE issue. Also the screen door effect can bother me at some of the viewing distances I do sometimes.

Of course with DLP you can have color wheel issues in the future. I have seen plenty in this thread, though I have never had that happen to me. DLP also has the rainbow effect even at 4x speeds or with 6 and 7 segment wheels. Though that hasn't bothered me much. Screen door is pretty much non-existent. Which is different than being able to see pixels, which at 1080p at very large sizes and up close... you will see the pixels. But at least you don't have the black grid effect that can be an issue with LCD that has matching DLP sharpness. Many use a blurring method to reduce the SDE, but this also can soften the image a little.

I am torn on if my next PJ will be DLP or LCD. The ghosting for LCD in gaming is my biggest issue right now. And I don't know of any places where I can test LCD PJ gaming before I buy. I also do not want a filter to maintain. But not sure how many of those are still made with filters, lol.

Still, for people looking at PJs under $1000, DLP seems to often have better overall reviews. Still, those are just a few things to think about and I personally think reviews are still the best way to decide at this point.

One other thing, 3D viewing. I have no experience in this right now, but want to. Though as I have been following it, it seems that DLP generally has brighter 3D images than LCD. But even this varies greatly between brands and models and in the end you have to watch for that in reviews as some projectors, even DLP, can have dim 3D viewing experiences. Usually compensated with higher bulb output which increases fan noise and lower life. Though a dimmer image can give you blacker blacks which could be the effect you want as well. lol.

About 10 years ago, DLP was pretty much the only way to go for HD 16:9 native resolutions under $1000 and with 4x wheels, they were great. The early 1x and 2x wheels were just awful. I couldn't watch them at all.

So all that likely doesn't help you much. There are plenty of people happy with LCD and DLP front projection. So if mounting is a big one for you, I would either look at the few DLP with lens shift, or just find an LCD projector with reviews that cover things that are important to you. And it doesn't hurt to buy from someone that allows returns without restocking fees.
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post #4114 of 4136 Old 01-01-2016, 01:51 PM
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I will not trash talk LCD projectors. They have their pros and cons. If mounting flexibility is a major issue, then you have almost no choice but to go with 3xLCD projectors when looking around $1,500 or less. Though the BenQ W7000 1080p DLP 3D does have vertical and horizontal lens shift because it is over $2k. It is also from 2012. So DLP with lens shift does exist. But generally cost over $2k and still very few models with it.

For LCD you generally have to look to see if there is a filter to maintain or not. Possible color convergence issues over time, though I honestly have never seen this happen myself so maybe that is no longer an issue. Lag can be an issue as you know. Though I have gamed on LCD projectors and the lag has never been an issue for me, but the ghosting can bother me more than the DLP RBE issue. Also the screen door effect can bother me at some of the viewing distances I do sometimes.

Of course with DLP you can have color wheel issues in the future. I have seen plenty in this thread, though I have never had that happen to me. DLP also has the rainbow effect even at 4x speeds or with 6 and 7 segment wheels. Though that hasn't bothered me much. Screen door is pretty much non-existent. Which is different than being able to see pixels, which at 1080p at very large sizes and up close... you will see the pixels. But at least you don't have the black grid effect that can be an issue with LCD that has matching DLP sharpness. Many use a blurring method to reduce the SDE, but this also can soften the image a little.

I am torn on if my next PJ will be DLP or LCD. The ghosting for LCD in gaming is my biggest issue right now. And I don't know of any places where I can test LCD PJ gaming before I buy. I also do not want a filter to maintain. But not sure how many of those are still made with filters, lol.

Still, for people looking at PJs under $1000, DLP seems to often have better overall reviews. Still, those are just a few things to think about and I personally think reviews are still the best way to decide at this point.

One other thing, 3D viewing. I have no experience in this right now, but want to. Though as I have been following it, it seems that DLP generally has brighter 3D images than LCD. But even this varies greatly between brands and models and in the end you have to watch for that in reviews as some projectors, even DLP, can have dim 3D viewing experiences. Usually compensated with higher bulb output which increases fan noise and lower life. Though a dimmer image can give you blacker blacks which could be the effect you want as well. lol.

About 10 years ago, DLP was pretty much the only way to go for HD 16:9 native resolutions under $1000 and with 4x wheels, they were great. The early 1x and 2x wheels were just awful. I couldn't watch them at all.

So all that likely doesn't help you much. There are plenty of people happy with LCD and DLP front projection. So if mounting is a big one for you, I would either look at the few DLP with lens shift, or just find an LCD projector with reviews that cover things that are important to you. And it doesn't hurt to buy from someone that allows returns without restocking fees.

Wow awesome information man!

I researched and the lag in the epson will be a killer it sounds like even though something about that pj looks amazing to me. Which DLP 3d would you go with right now if you were buying.

Optoma HD141X (HDMI and ports are on side which is weird and would take some time to figure out mounting clean)
Benq w1070
Hd50 (To much lag from pj central reveiw) Input?
Hd26


I've spent most my time on the epsons that now I will need some guidance towards some dlps price range is about 1500.

Also about how long before everyone's color wheels took a dump in the HD20?
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post #4115 of 4136 Old 01-01-2016, 03:12 PM
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Wow awesome information man!

I researched and the lag in the epson will be a killer it sounds like even though something about that pj looks amazing to me. Which DLP 3d would you go with right now if you were buying.

Optoma HD141X (HDMI and ports are on side which is weird and would take some time to figure out mounting clean)
Benq w1070
Hd50 (To much lag from pj central reveiw) Input?
Hd26


I've spent most my time on the epsons that now I will need some guidance towards some dlps price range is about 1500.

Also about how long before everyone's color wheels took a dump in the HD20?
Yeah, I am pretty annoyed with the case design of the HD141X, especially the side input panel. Why in the world did they do that! Everyone expects the inputs on the back, so why put them on the side? That would make some sense on projectors with massive zoom and great lens shift, because then you could just set the PJ on a rear shelf flush against the wall with the inputs to the side.

The easy option: If you don't need 3D, I would just get a new bulb and housing for the HD20 you already have. And then just wait for something else to grab your attention.

http://www.projectorcentral.com/home...nder-$1000.htm - An updated Sub-$1000 review by Projector Central.

On the performance page of that review, it shows input lag measurements. Interestingly, the single LCD option in this list, has the least input lag of 24.6 ms. But remember, unless you are comparing these numbers to PC gaming with gaming monitors, there are plenty of flat panels displays with high input lag and many people don't complain about their gaming. The popular Panasonic ST60 TV has input lag of 73.6 ms. Though high performance gaming TVs like the Sony KDL-55W900A is a super quick 19.7 ms. Many TV and displays are in the 40's range. I am not sure if the Epson 2040 in this review is using a dedicated gaming mode to reach the 24.7ms rating. Which might not look the best to achieve that speed.

This review also reports on signal lock speed. Which is nice. Though if you don't change sources or resolutions often, this is likely the lowest priority of any rating.

This review is correct to say they can't call one PJ a clear winner or "best", as it heavily depends on what is important to you. The Epson HC 2040 has the lowest MSRP cost bulb at under $100! And the brights 3D image. The HD28DSE is just behind that in both categories.

Of this review, I would pick from the DLP Optoma HD28DSE and the LCD Epson Home Cinema 2040. Quick differences below:
Others in the list they reviewed: BenQ HT3050, BenQ HT2050, and Viewsonic PJD7835HD.

LCD Epson HC 2040: 799 price today
Pros:
- ultra cheap MSRP bulb price of $79 (reported by Epson in the review)
- ultra quick input lag: 24.6 ms
- Darker blacks in 3D mode, not so great in 2D mode.
- Sharp image for LCD, only the HD28DSE performed better in this list.
- best brightness uniformity in this pack
- Low fan noise in Eco mode
- RBE is not possible with LCD
- 2 year Epson warranty. Not sure I care about this. Seems many projectors last well beyond 2 years and most warranties don't cover the bulb anyways.

Cons:
- moderate blacks in 2D mode, reduce bulb brightness to help.
- worst fan noise in full lamp modes, including 3D.
- Oddly this LCD projector does NOT have any lens shift and a very low offset, which can make mounting it even harder than many DLPs.

DLP Optoma HD28DSE: 799 price today
Pros:
- deepest blacks and best contrast of this group.
- Excellent 3D performance just behind the Epson 2040, but with lower fan noise.
- moderately priced bulb: $179 , still lower than the usual $250+ for many projectors.
- best sharpness in this group.
- excellent brightness and blacks in 3D mode, just behind the Epson 2040.
-

Neutral:
- moderate brightness uniformity. Similar to the HD20 and many others. So if you don't might that already, you won't notice it here either. Hard to see even during testing without the use of a full white screen image. In video and games, I have never seen this as an issue.
- RBE from DLP technology. Most people do not consider this an issue in general. Put in the Con's group if you hate your HD20 RBE. lol.
- 1 year warranty

Cons:
- ultra low 1.1x zoom. Combined with the usual no lens shift of many DLPs, this makes it the more restrictive for mounting.
- variable fan speed, the change of speed is more annoying than a constant one. No mention if this is a feature that can be turned off or not.
- Input lag at 49.7 ms puts this a on the higher end of the usual spectrum. A little odd for a DLP. Not sure if this is related to the extra processing of the built in Darby Vision video processor.
- Side inputs like the HD141X. This would likely drive me nuts and I would probably get the HD141X over the HD28DSE if I have side inputs so that I don't have the Darby processor. And would save about $250. As the HD141X is only 550 right now.

Now pretty much any of these projectors well under $1000 are great units and people should be happy with just about any of them at those prices.

HD141X review - I still hate the side inputs. But at 550, it seems like a great 3D projector at that price. And without the Darby processing, the input lag drops to a fast 33 ms. Though I am not sure about the color wheel. Some list the speed at 2X, my emails to Optoma say that the speed is the same across their projectors and they use 6 and 7 segment wheels.

Lag should be fine on all these projectors. Some projectors like the BenQ HT4050 (not in the above list) has an input lag as high as 145 ms with frame interpolation on, and the lowest is still a terrible 96 ms without it.

I always like to use these 2 links as my starting point and then look at reviews to see what is most important to me.

Projector Central - Top 10 > $1500
Projector Central - Top 10 < $1500

I generally start with my price range. Pick a few on the list to start with and drill down. The HD50 is the lowest cost in the over 1500 Top 10, at around 1600, but with a terrible 129 ms input lag.

In the under 1500 Top 10 list, the 700 dollar BenQ 1070 has excellent input lag of 24 ms in 2D and 3D modes! And also has lens shift. But the Lens shift is extremely small and requires tools, so it is designed more for fine tuning during a permanent install. I would not really use this as a pro as it doesn't help much for most installs.

I would have a hard time picking from this list so far. The side inputs of the HD141X, HD28DSE, and other models like the HD26... would drive me nuts. Even though that shouldn't matter for picking a projector that I likely wouldn't even be looking at very often when mounted on the ceiling.

Under 1000, I guess I would still pick from the LCD Epson 2040, and the DLP Optoma HD28DSE and HD141X.
Over 1000, if you get closer to 2000, the $1850 Panasonic PT-AE8000E is an excellent LCD projector and supposedly comes with 2 pairs of 3D glasses.

Wish I could pick one that I think is the best general pick under 1500.
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post #4116 of 4136 Old 01-01-2016, 07:26 PM
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Best buy is doing a 300 gift card for a purchase of an epson 2045 I will look into that also that would be really cheap factoring the gift card. Only on mobile so will look up some reviews tonihhy

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Best buy is doing a 300 gift card for a purchase of an epson 2045 I will look into that also that would be really cheap factoring the gift card. Only on mobile so will look up some reviews tonihhy

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The 2045 is the same as the 2040 but adds MHL support at a $50 premium over the 2040. So if you like the 2040 review, 550 is a great price. I would go for that as I don't see any similar deals on the Optoma HD28DSE.
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The 2045 is the same as the 2040 but adds MHL support at a $50 premium over the 2040. So if you like the 2040 review, 550 is a great price. I would go for that as I don't see any similar deals on the Optoma HD28DSE.
Thx xenon. The reviews look good and I like the bulbs are only 100 bucks. My hd20 is killing me at 190 a year . I'm on my 4th bulb after only getting b&h photo oem bulbs.

I know the epson is 3lcd but it appears lag is a minimum.

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post #4119 of 4136 Old 01-03-2016, 09:55 AM
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Thx xenon. The reviews look good and I like the bulbs are only 100 bucks. My hd20 is killing me at 190 a year . I'm on my 4th bulb after only getting b&h photo oem bulbs.

I know the epson is 3lcd but it appears lag is a minimum.

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Sounds like a good option to me too. You much have the projector on a lot to kill the bulb yearly. wow. I mean serious. Even the low 3000 hr lifespan of the HD20 in full power bulb mode would get you over 8 hours a day at 365 days of daily use. Drop that to the common 2500-2800 hours I see people get and that is still about 7 hours a day used every single day of 1 year. This isn't a judgement, but wow, you have the PJ on a lot. The 2040's eco hours of 7,500 combined with a cheaper bulb, would certainly be a good option for the hours you leave it on.

Lag is a function of the video processing and not really the LCD or DLP mirror. It is the LCD ghosting that has bothered me in the past. Which is caused by the time it takes for a pixel to change state. And I rarely see Grey to Grey state change ratings. It used to be more common on LCD monitors when the ratings were extremely bad. Let me know what you think of gaming on the 2040. Would be interesting to find a good test method for home users to test LCD ghosting.
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Sounds like a good option to me too. You much have the projector on a lot to kill the bulb yearly. wow. I mean serious. Even the low 3000 hr lifespan of the HD20 in full power bulb mode would get you over 8 hours a day at 365 days of daily use. Drop that to the common 2500-2800 hours I see people get and that is still about 7 hours a day used every single day of 1 year. This isn't a judgement, but wow, you have the PJ on a lot. The 2040's eco hours of 7,500 combined with a cheaper bulb, would certainly be a good option for the hours you leave it on.

Lag is a function of the video processing and not really the LCD or DLP mirror. It is the LCD ghosting that has bothered me in the past. Which is caused by the time it takes for a pixel to change state. And I rarely see Grey to Grey state change ratings. It used to be more common on LCD monitors when the ratings were extremely bad. Let me know what you think of gaming on the 2040. Would be interesting to find a good test method for home users to test LCD ghosting.
Yeah unfortunately I knew we would use the projector a lot but didn't realize it would be the main media focal point in the house. I never run my hd20 on full power and I would say it's on at least 8-10 a day. In that regard is it better to leave the bulb on of you are running out for an hour or two and know it will be used later or turn it off? I feel some hours are wasted but I've heard frequent on off will kill the bulb also .

I will report back when i get the 2040/45

Thanks again for the help.

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Yeah unfortunately I knew we would use the projector a lot but didn't realize it would be the main media focal point in the house. I never run my hd20 on full power and I would say it's on at least 8-10 a day. In that regard is it better to leave the bulb on of you are running out for an hour or two and know it will be used later or turn it off? I feel some hours are wasted but I've heard frequent on off will kill the bulb also .

I will report back when i get the 2040/45

Thanks again for the help.

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I don't know if there has been any official testing. But for my HD70 and HD20, I always turned it off if I wasn't going to use it for at least 30 minutes. Meaning, if I knew it was going to be off for at least 30 minutes. Though there were plenty of times that I turned it back on within 5 minutes of it being off. Even in a work environment where the projector is turned on and off constantly, I have not seen lower bulb life. Just one person's observation, but I haven't seen any modern studies done on that subject. Personally, I think your bulb will last longer (date wise) if you only have it on when you are using it. I am sure you are wasting more hours leaving it on when not in use, than you could possibly lose in potential life lost in constant on/off cycles.
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I don't know if there has been any official testing. But for my HD70 and HD20, I always turned it off if I wasn't going to use it for at least 30 minutes. Meaning, if I knew it was going to be off for at least 30 minutes. Though there were plenty of times that I turned it back on within 5 minutes of it being off. Even in a work environment where the projector is turned on and off constantly, I have not seen lower bulb life. Just one person's observation, but I haven't seen any modern studies done on that subject. Personally, I think your bulb will last longer (date wise) if you only have it on when you are using it. I am sure you are wasting more hours leaving it on when not in use, than you could possibly lose in potential life lost in constant on/off cycles.
OK guys pulled a trigger on a epson 2045 today . Best buy price matched to 699 and gave me a 300 gift card in hand. Can't pass that up. Will still use my hd20 for outdoor stuff I think !

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OK guys pulled a trigger on a epson 2045 today . Best buy price matched to 699 and gave me a 300 gift card in hand. Can't pass that up. Will still use my hd20 for outdoor stuff I think !
wow. That is an awesome deal. I didn't see anything about the 300 gift card online. Is there a link you can share? A deadline? I wasn't planning on getting a projector right now, but at 400 for the PJ and 300 to use on other items... that is a hard deal to pass up.
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OK guys pulled a trigger on a epson 2045 today . Best buy price matched to 699 and gave me a 300 gift card in hand. Can't pass that up. Will still use my hd20 for outdoor stuff I think !
http://slickdeals.net/f/8413799-bb-g...-free-shipping

Is this the deal you got? If so, this claims you have to pay $30 for some kind of membership? Is this what you did? Or some other deal for the gift card?
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That's the deal but I went into my local Best buy and showed them the b&h photo 699 deal from Nov they honored that price and then I showed them the link for the 300 gift card and. They just loaded one up for me . Ymmv but good luck!!! I was trying not to mess with mail gift cards and stuff .

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I also did it without the membership to gamers unlocked. My sales person didn't even look that deep into it

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That's the deal but I went into my local Best buy and showed them the b&h photo 699 deal from Nov they honored that price and then I showed them the link for the 300 gift card and. They just loaded one up for me . Ymmv but good luck!!! I was trying not to mess with mail gift cards and stuff .
Wow, very cool for you. The locations around me seem to be very picky, so I probably won't even try. They especially since they seem to only look themselves on their systems. So if the current price isn't $699, they certainly won't take my back dated image price. darn. I too don't want to deal with mailed cards and memberships, etc. Congrats on getting an amazing deal.
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Wow, very cool for you. The locations around me seem to be very picky, so I probably won't even try. They especially since they seem to only look themselves on their systems. So if the current price isn't $699, they certainly won't take my back dated image price. darn. I too don't want to deal with mailed cards and memberships, etc. Congrats on getting an amazing deal.
Pm Sent Xenon are you still in phx az area?
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post #4129 of 4136 Old 01-04-2016, 07:37 AM
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Pm Sent Xenon are you still in phx az area?
I am still in Phoenix. I am at work and around the corner from a Best Buy. lol.
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post #4130 of 4136 Old 01-04-2016, 09:02 AM
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Pm Sent Xenon are you still in phx az area?
Email addy in PM. Thanks.
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post #4131 of 4136 Old 01-22-2016, 08:48 AM
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I upgraded to a new projector and gave my hd20 to my little brother for his first projector in an apartment set up. What is the cheapest way for him to get sound for his gaming on Xbox ect . I had a receiver and speakers set up when I had it but will a sound bar work or those cheaper home theater in boxes with I'm the DVD players or does he need a receiver

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post #4132 of 4136 Old 01-22-2016, 09:33 AM
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If the Xbox has analog audio output the cheapest way is to plug in some PC speakers because they are self-powered. Just about any audio system should connect to it.
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post #4133 of 4136 Old 01-22-2016, 11:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrandPixel View Post
If the Xbox has analog audio output the cheapest way is to plug in some PC speakers because they are self-powered. Just about any audio system should connect to it.
You could even use an external speaker with an input on it like from beats, bose, jambox via the analog connection.
Otherwise you could use an optical connection to receiver or a sound bar with compatible input.
You don't mention which XBOX so I am not sure what built in outputs it has.
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post #4134 of 4136 Old 01-22-2016, 02:57 PM
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Issue with HD20

I need some help figuring out what went wrong with my three year old Optoma HD 20. Looks like some coffee got splashed inside. I now get this pattern (attached) and the picture does not display. Any help is appreciated. The buttons on the top do not work. Thanks
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post #4135 of 4136 Old 01-22-2016, 07:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevinwoodward View Post
You could even use an external speaker with an input on it like from beats, bose, jambox via the analog connection.
Otherwise you could use an optical connection to receiver or a sound bar with compatible input.
You don't mention which XBOX so I am not sure what built in outputs it has.
Thanks it's an Xbox 360 pretty sure that has optical out. I will give that a go

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post #4136 of 4136 Old 01-23-2016, 05:36 AM
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I changed my bulb with this one http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...ilpage_o02_s00

so far so good. Like a brand new projector again. Cheap!
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