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post #3301 of 3635 Old 12-01-2010, 02:29 AM
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Originally Posted by OldSlow View Post

I find it bad as well...I don't know why I never noticed it earlier than I did. But it bugs me. I want to find out more about the JVC's

Glad to hear am not alone. I think if this is your first ever projector you would be amazed!

Dont get me wrong some scenes are sharp but on the hole it really is lacking.

Anyone know another projector in its price range that offers more sharpness ?
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post #3302 of 3635 Old 12-01-2010, 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted by jamieuk147 View Post

Glad to hear am not alone. I think if this is your first ever projector you would be amazed!

Dont get me wrong some scenes are sharp but on the hole it really is lacking.

Anyone know another projector in its price range that offers more sharpness ?

I think you're asking for it to artificially sharpen things that aren't there in the source. I can throw a native 1080p frequency sweep up and fully resolve all details with very little tweaking on the 8500 (Advanced Sharpness: 5,5,-1,-1, Super Res 1 - the default sharpness obscures fine detail because it adds artificial outlines to fine detail)... and it handles motion resolution quite handily. If the projector can accurately reproduce all fields in a sharpness pattern, that's about as much as you can ask it to do. I can throw up a single pixel checkerboard pattern and still see the pattern from my seats. For my money (and for this price range), that's fantastic.

You're saying "some scenes are sharp". But then, a lot of that comes down to the source. Throw in a Blu-ray of a movie filmed digitally, specifically on something like the Red One camera (the movie KNOWING comes to mind), and the 8500 looks super crisp. But take something shot on film and it's up to the encode on the Blu-ray. If the projector is properly reproducing what's in the source, that's the goal. If you think another projector can look sharper than that, then you're likely asking it to artificially add details that aren't there in the source, which runs counter to the way most people here think.

Now, if you're talking about convergence issues, that's a whole other story. All 3LCD projectors will have minor variations. DLP projectors with a color wheel won't have this problem because there's only one panel so nothing to converge... but then, LCD doesn't have the rainbow effect, so consider the differences.

I will say that in my particular setup, the 8500 has issues fully reproducing a chroma multiburst pattern UNLESS you set your source to output RGB. This is true of my Oppo BDP-83. Send the Epson anything other than RGB, no matter what color space you use, and it clips high-frequency color details. But as soon as I set my Oppo to RGB, the Epson fully resolves all detail in both the luma and chroma multiburst and the sharpness pattern, meaning the Epson is having problems properly making the color space conversion. Setting my Xbox 360 to output RGB also made a noticeable difference. Again, this could just be in my particular setup... because when I posted a request earlier in the thread for others to test this on their rigs, no one responded. I did send pictures to Spears & Munsil with the issue, and they forwarded them on to Epson.

If you can set your source to output RGB, use the sharpness settings above and see what you think. It may make no difference... but then, it doesn't cost you anything to try.

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post #3303 of 3635 Old 12-02-2010, 08:37 AM
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Where did you find a one pixel checkerboard?
RGB--I'm less concerned over a chroma full range than sharpness comparisons to DLP and I think almost everyone (except you) has to use the HDMI output from Blu-Ray or DVD players and very little else that provides a 1080P output.
The 8500 is my fifth front projector starting with the Kloss Novabeam at the dawn of history.
Compared to anything I've seen, I think the 8500 provides a superb contrast ratio, color range, sharpness and brightness (as long as the lamp holds out).
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post #3304 of 3635 Old 12-02-2010, 08:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Gil Arroyo View Post

Where did you find a one pixel checkerboard?
RGB--I'm less concerned over a chroma full range than sharpness comparisons to DLP and I think almost everyone (except you) has to use the HDMI output from Blu-Ray or DVD players and very little else that provides a 1080P output.
The 8500 is my fifth front projector starting with the Kloss Novabeam at the dawn of history.
Compared to anything I've seen, I think the 8500 provides a superb contrast ratio, color range, sharpness and brightness (as long as the lamp holds out).
gil

Given your experience, would you share your settings, including which mode you have adjusted & prefer.
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post #3305 of 3635 Old 12-02-2010, 12:13 PM
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I'm sure I will get little agreement on my settings. Dark room, HDMI input from an ONKYO 805, Denon 2500 or equivalent. Yes I have juggled with Spears and Musil HD Benchmark, HQV (Silicon Optics) Benchmark and (I think the best) DVE (Digital Video Essentials)HD and DVD. I've switched OFF THE HI ALT fan and ECO to NORMAL settings after the last lamp failure under 500 hours.
Using for Sports: LIV ROOM, BRT -6, CONT 0, COLOR 0, TINT 8, SHARP 5,5,-1,-1, 6500 OR 7500 degrees K, SKIN 3 OR 4, GAMMA 2.2, CONT ENHANCE OFF, SUPER RES 1 TO 3(depends on source).
For Blu-Ray: same settings except contrast up to 7 and adv sharp to 16,16,4,4, but sometimes back to the 1 pixel selection of 5, 5, -1,-1.
I don't think you need to so anything but adjust the final result as you see it as optimal and don't get too uptight about too many technicals.
Bitstream from Netflix on ROKU requires the basic settings of brightness, contrast, color and sharpness to be juggled to match the source information and no fixed setting for this wide variety of material will do. That also applies to all the other sources to a lesser degree.
DVD settings are: Theater Black 1 or 2, Bright 1, contrast 8, Color -9 (varies with input), tint 0, Sharp 5,5,-1,-1, 6500 degrees, skin 3 or 4, gamma 2.2 (you can play with this for image "pop", cont enhance off, super res at 1 to 3 dependent on material (yes, trying to make something out of nothing). gil
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post #3306 of 3635 Old 12-02-2010, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Gil Arroyo View Post

I'm sure I will get little agreement on my settings. Dark room, HDMI input from an ONKYO 805, Denon 2500 or equivalent. Yes I have juggled with Spears and Musil HD Benchmark, HQV (Silicon Optics) Benchmark and (I think the best) DVE (Digital Video Essentials)HD and DVD. I've switched OFF THE HI ALT fan and ECO to NORMAL settings after the last lamp failure under 500 hours.
Using for Sports: LIV ROOM, BRT -6, CONT 0, COLOR 0, TINT 8, SHARP 5,5,-1,-1, 6500 OR 7500 degrees K, SKIN 3 OR 4, GAMMA 2.2, CONT ENHANCE OFF, SUPER RES 1 TO 3(depends on source).
For Blu-Ray: same settings except contrast up to 7 and adv sharp to 16,16,4,4, but sometimes back to the 1 pixel selection of 5, 5, -1,-1.
I don't think you need to so anything but adjust the final result as you see it as optimal and don't get too uptight about too many technicals.
Bitstream from Netflix on ROKU requires the basic settings of brightness, contrast, color and sharpness to be juggled to match the source information and no fixed setting for this wide variety of material will do. That also applies to all the other sources to a lesser degree.
DVD settings are: Theater Black 1 or 2, Bright 1, contrast 8, Color -9 (varies with input), tint 0, Sharp 5,5,-1,-1, 6500 degrees, skin 3 or 4, gamma 2.2 (you can play with this for image "pop", cont enhance off, super res at 1 to 3 dependent on material (yes, trying to make something out of nothing). gil

Thanks Gil. Do you watch Blu-Ray's in a dark room on the 'Liv Room' mode, but DVD's on Theater 1 or 2? Seems to be 2 quit different approaches.
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post #3307 of 3635 Old 12-02-2010, 08:35 PM
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Someone earlier in the thread asked what settings I use. Mine are a little more in-depth, but give me a pretty solid grayscale while squeezing as much native contrast as possible out of the panels.

Settings are (with all others at default):
THX mode
Brightness 0
Contrast -2
Color 0
Tint 0
Advanced Sharpness (5, 5, -1, -1)
Gamma 2.3

RGB:
Offset R 4
Offset B 2
Gain R -9
Gain B -5

RGBCMY:
R Hue 1
B Saturation 1
C Hue 2
M Hue -2
Y Hue -1

Super Resolution 1
Bulb: Eco mode
Auto Iris: High Speed
HDMI Video Range: Normal
Super White OFF

Some would disagree with that last setting, but since not a hell of a lot of real-world material contains whites over HDMI level 243 or so (and that only for highlights), I leave Super White off and back contrast down so it still reveals highlights above white peaking (HDMI level 235) but clips the very top ranges (243+). This on its own washes out skin tones a bit, but setting Gamma to 2.3 reins this in and still allows for the much higher contrast that this achieves while keeping gamma pretty close to a measured 2.2. It also pushes the individual colors right to the limit of clipping, meaning you're getting about as much out of the panels as you could hope without losing color detail.

And when I said use RGB, I meant that over HDMI. Not all sources will let you do this, but my Oppo and Xbox 360 will let you set the HDMI to output either 4:2:2, 4:4:4 or RGB color space. The Epson itself converts whatever you send it to RGB before sending it to the panels, and with the chroma detail error I was observing, it makes me wonder if the color space conversion in the Reon is flawed or if it's just Epson's implementation. Either way, setting your sources to the RGB color space lets them do the color space conversion and gives you full resolution of high frequency chroma detail. Chalk it up to a minor niggle, but it does bear mentioning.

Note on above: All of this was done starting with some settings posted here and tweaked using an EyeOne Display LT with HCFR and both the Spears & Munsil and AVS 709 HD discs. I then did optical comparison by putting the same pictures up on both the Epson and my calibrated BenQ LCD monitor to ensure that they were as similar as possible. Also, these settings are for a light-controlled room with blackout shades, aiming for about 15ftL of brightness at the seats, which is why I'm not using Normal bulb mode. YMMV, but you can always plug these numbers in, save 'em and A/B with your own to see how they compare.

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post #3308 of 3635 Old 12-03-2010, 07:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy Anderson View Post

Someone earlier in the thread asked what settings I use. Mine are a little more in-depth, but give me a pretty solid grayscale while squeezing as much native contrast as possible out of the panels.

Settings are (with all others at default):
THX mode
Brightness 0
Contrast -2
Color 0
Tint 0
Advanced Sharpness (5, 5, -1, -1)
Gamma 2.3

RGB:
Offset R 4
Offset B 2
Gain R -9
Gain B -5

RGBCMY:
R Hue 1
B Saturation 1
C Hue 2
M Hue -2
Y Hue -1

Super Resolution 1
Bulb: Eco mode
Auto Iris: High Speed
HDMI Video Range: Normal
Super White OFF

Some would disagree with that last setting, but since not a hell of a lot of real-world material contains whites over HDMI level 243 or so (and that only for highlights), I leave Super White off and back contrast down so it still reveals highlights above white peaking (HDMI level 235) but clips the very top ranges (243+). This on its own washes out skin tones a bit, but setting Gamma to 2.3 reins this in and still allows for the much higher contrast that this achieves while keeping gamma pretty close to a measured 2.2. It also pushes the individual colors right to the limit of clipping, meaning you're getting about as much out of the panels as you could hope without losing color detail.

And when I said use RGB, I meant that over HDMI. Not all sources will let you do this, but my Oppo and Xbox 360 will let you set the HDMI to output either 4:2:2, 4:4:4 or RGB color space. The Epson itself converts whatever you send it to RGB before sending it to the panels, and with the chroma detail error I was observing, it makes me wonder if the color space conversion in the Reon is flawed or if it's just Epson's implementation. Either way, setting your sources to the RGB color space lets them do the color space conversion and gives you full resolution of high frequency chroma detail. Chalk it up to a minor niggle, but it does bear mentioning.

Note on above: All of this was done starting with some settings posted here and tweaked using an EyeOne Display LT with HCFR and both the Spears & Munsil and AVS 709 HD discs. I then did optical comparison by putting the same pictures up on both the Epson and my calibrated BenQ LCD monitor to ensure that they were as similar as possible. Also, these settings are for a light-controlled room with blackout shades, aiming for about 15ftL of brightness at the seats, which is why I'm not using Normal bulb mode. YMMV, but you can always plug these numbers in, save 'em and A/B with your own to see how they compare.

Thanks for your settings. I'm not a fan of the Eco mode, but will try. Note, you wouldn't have to worry about the Super White setting, since per the manual, this does not come into play when using a hdmi cable:
This setting can be used only when a composite video, S-Video, or component video signal is being input and the Color Mode is set to THX (Home Cinema 8500UB),
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post #3309 of 3635 Old 12-03-2010, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by cdnscg View Post
Thanks Gil. Do you watch Blu-Ray's in a dark room on the 'Liv Room' mode, but DVD's on Theater 1 or 2? Seems to be 2 quit different approaches.
Using 100 inch curved (4 inch curve at center) for most materials and 120 inch FAVI electric for Blu and Sports HD. Both appear 'white' and are around 1.2, 1.3 gain.
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post #3310 of 3635 Old 12-03-2010, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Gil Arroyo View Post
Using 100 inch curved (4 inch curve at center) for most materials and 120 inch FAVI electric for Blu and Sports HD. Both appear 'white' and are around 1.2, 1.3 gain.
Sorry, I meant for the PJ are you watching your BD's on Living Room mode as appose to THX or Theater 1?
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post #3311 of 3635 Old 12-03-2010, 07:28 PM
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Originally Posted by cdnscg View Post

Thanks for your settings. I'm not a fan of the Eco mode, but will try. Note, you wouldn't have to worry about the Super White setting, since per the manual, this does not come into play when using a hdmi cable:
This setting can be used only when a composite video, S-Video, or component video signal is being input and the Color Mode is set to THX (Home Cinema 8500UB),

Ignore the manual, because it is wrong. The three options are:

1) HDMI Normal, Super White Off: HDMI will not pass blacker than black (levels 1-15) and whiter than white (levels 236-255) is clipped at the default Contrast setting of 0.

2) HDMI Normal, Super White On: HDMI will not pass blacker than black, but will pass whiter than white all the way to 255 with Contrast at 0.

3) HDMI Extended, (Super White grayed out): HDMI will pass blacker than black with Brightness at 0, requiring brightness to be calibrated down to compensate, and will pass whiter than white to its limit with Contrast at 0.

You can clearly see this by using the AVS 709 HD contrast/brightness patterns and changing the options. Now, from a strict calibration standpoint, option 2 is the best since it allows for range above white peaking of 235. However, this reduces the contrast ratio. Option 1 gives you the best contrast ratio, but does not display any highlights above level 235. My setting is a compromise, in that while it uses option 1, I have backed Contrast down slightly to allow levels 236 to about 243 to make it through without clipping. This also prevents the individual colors from clipping out until well after level 235, which is good because at the THX defaults, red is dangerously close to clipping.

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post #3312 of 3635 Old 12-04-2010, 05:02 AM
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I bought the spears and munsil disk. Alas I haven't really a clue as to what I'm ding with it.
When I try to use it it seems I get little or no effect unless I use massive changes to brightness or contrast.

I decided on THX Normal bulb with brightness down a couple notches along with contrast. Other than the Sharpness I kept everything else pretty much at default.

I find echo bulb makes faces look unnatural.
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post #3313 of 3635 Old 12-04-2010, 09:18 AM
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Hey Jeremy Anderson, do you get any pinkish hue on a pure white screen?
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post #3314 of 3635 Old 12-04-2010, 11:01 PM
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Originally Posted by OldSlow View Post

Hey Jeremy Anderson, do you get any pinkish hue on a pure white screen?

Nope. Though today, I switched to Normal bulb... and I may leave it that way. Could be because my bulb has over 1,300 hours on it and was getting dim, but Normal brought it back up. Ended up with gamma back at 2.2 with Normal bulb after some critical pattern viewing, but all other settings stayed the same.

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post #3315 of 3635 Old 12-06-2010, 10:41 AM
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OK, I got my first 8500UB when they were first released....Nov or Dec of last year. I thought my first projector was great...much better than my old Z4. However, the iris was a little loud, then I checked the convergence and it was off a with red quite a bit (see it from 10 ft) and then the red wavy line situation started.

So in January, I called and was sent a replacement...which was another new unit. The new unit had better convergence and a quieter iris...so I was happy with it....until the red wavy line thing happened again!

I was unsure what to do....it was a good projector....as others here have said...I didn't want to risk getting a bad refurb projector.

However, after having the red wavy line situation happen 2 days in a row and thinking that if I ever sell this projector to upgrade (Hey...I am on this forum right!? )....then How would I explain to the potential buyer that every once in a while that the thing would go all red wavy requiring you to restart it! My projector has 1200 hours on it. It may have lost some lumens but not much!

So I called epson support again! Just as with the first experience...they could not do enough for me. They offered to have me send in my projector to have the firmware updated or they could send me a replacement. I expressed my concern over getting a bad projector and she said she would have them check it prior to sending it.

Well, that was Thursday and today I received my replacement projector. Came in a box with no cables or remote or anything...guess that goes with being a refurb. I quickly fired it up and was happy to see the convergence is very good...as good or better compared to my current projector. The auto iris...once turned on, is almost silent! My current projector's iris seemed to get noisier as time went on? This one is silent!

I checked the firmware on the new projector.....1.10 ?!?

I decided to call the rep who had looked after this for me to let her know how happy I was with the experience. She informed me that version 1.10 is not really much different from 1.02....they just brought it inline with the new 8700 firmware numbering.

Still very happy with the whole experience. I don't think I could expect this level of service from any other manufacturer! It seems all projectors can have some issuesl. Nice to know how well Epson backs their products

Now I'm off to do some calibrating!
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post #3316 of 3635 Old 12-06-2010, 05:45 PM
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I have a question for you all. I've noticed on my calibration disc (contrast screen) that the pjs image moves from a whitish color level on the left side of the screen to a reddish tint half way across and all the way over to the right side. Any thoughts on how to correct this?
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post #3317 of 3635 Old 12-07-2010, 03:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tup View Post
OK, I got my first 8500UB when they were first released....Nov or Dec of last year. I thought my first projector was great...much better than my old Z4. However, the iris was a little loud, then I checked the convergence and it was off a with red quite a bit (see it from 10 ft) and then the red wavy line situation started.

So in January, I called and was sent a replacement...which was another new unit. The new unit had better convergence and a quieter iris...so I was happy with it....until the red wavy line thing happened again!

I was unsure what to do....it was a good projector....as others here have said...I didn't want to risk getting a bad refurb projector.

However, after having the red wavy line situation happen 2 days in a row and thinking that if I ever sell this projector to upgrade (Hey...I am on this forum right!? )....then How would I explain to the potential buyer that every once in a while that the thing would go all red wavy requiring you to restart it! My projector has 1200 hours on it. It may have lost some lumens but not much!

So I called epson support again! Just as with the first experience...they could not do enough for me. They offered to have me send in my projector to have the firmware updated or they could send me a replacement. I expressed my concern over getting a bad projector and she said she would have them check it prior to sending it.

Well, that was Thursday and today I received my replacement projector. Came in a box with no cables or remote or anything...guess that goes with being a refurb. I quickly fired it up and was happy to see the convergence is very good...as good or better compared to my current projector. The auto iris...once turned on, is almost silent! My current projector's iris seemed to get noisier as time went on? This one is silent!

I checked the firmware on the new projector.....1.10 ?!?

I decided to call the rep who had looked after this for me to let her know how happy I was with the experience. She informed me that version 1.10 is not really much different from 1.02....they just brought it inline with the new 8700 firmware numbering.

Still very happy with the whole experience. I don't think I could expect this level of service from any other manufacturer! It seems all projectors can have some issuesl. Nice to know how well Epson backs their products

Now I'm off to do some calibrating!
Well Tup I hope I make out as well as you. I also just called and they are sending out a refurb. I worry as well about having to call and complain about things like convergence with the replacement!
Seems like the QC at Epson is way off!
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post #3318 of 3635 Old 12-07-2010, 03:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d_m1010 View Post
I have a question for you all. I've noticed on my calibration disc (contrast screen) that the pjs image moves from a whitish color level on the left side of the screen to a reddish tint half way across and all the way over to the right side. Any thoughts on how to correct this?
The very reason I called to get a replacement!
Mine has that tint all on the left.
Have you noticed it to be worse on Normal bulb as opposed to ECO?
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post #3319 of 3635 Old 12-07-2010, 05:10 AM
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It's there on all the settings.

Was it difficult to get the replacement?
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post #3320 of 3635 Old 12-07-2010, 06:36 AM
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I talked to Epson, gave them my CC and they're sending out a refurb. They would not send a new unit. They said if I'm not satisfied with the refurb in any way that I can send it back no charge. I didn't have a choice so I figured why not. At least I get a new bulb. I'll keep you all posted.
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post #3321 of 3635 Old 12-07-2010, 04:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d_m1010 View Post

I talked to Epson, gave them my CC and they're sending out a refurb. They would not send a new unit. They said if I'm not satisfied with the refurb in any way that I can send it back no charge. I didn't have a choice so I figured why not. At least I get a new bulb. I'll keep you all posted.

I've been putting off getting a replacement after noticing a reddish-purple line across the bottom of the screen. I am thinking that it may be possible that a great many of us will have this (or something similar) happen after a certain number of hours on the units, so getting a refurb may be great for a while but a year down the line, it may happen again, or something else will go wrong. Fortunately I got the 9500 with 3 year warranty. I would strongly suggest anyone with an 8500 have their two year warranty extended by Epson if they are planning on keeping the unit past the warranty expiration!
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post #3322 of 3635 Old 12-07-2010, 04:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Tup View Post

OK, I got my first 8500UB when they were first released....Nov or Dec of last year. I thought my first projector was great...much better than my old Z4. However, the iris was a little loud, then I checked the convergence and it was off a with red quite a bit (see it from 10 ft) and then the red wavy line situation started.

So in January, I called and was sent a replacement...which was another new unit. The new unit had better convergence and a quieter iris...so I was happy with it....until the red wavy line thing happened again!

I was unsure what to do....it was a good projector....as others here have said...I didn't want to risk getting a bad refurb projector.

However, after having the red wavy line situation happen 2 days in a row and thinking that if I ever sell this projector to upgrade (Hey...I am on this forum right!? )....then How would I explain to the potential buyer that every once in a while that the thing would go all red wavy requiring you to restart it! My projector has 1200 hours on it. It may have lost some lumens but not much!

So I called epson support again! Just as with the first experience...they could not do enough for me. They offered to have me send in my projector to have the firmware updated or they could send me a replacement. I expressed my concern over getting a bad projector and she said she would have them check it prior to sending it.

Well, that was Thursday and today I received my replacement projector. Came in a box with no cables or remote or anything...guess that goes with being a refurb. I quickly fired it up and was happy to see the convergence is very good...as good or better compared to my current projector. The auto iris...once turned on, is almost silent! My current projector's iris seemed to get noisier as time went on? This one is silent!

I checked the firmware on the new projector.....1.10 ?!?

I decided to call the rep who had looked after this for me to let her know how happy I was with the experience. She informed me that version 1.10 is not really much different from 1.02....they just brought it inline with the new 8700 firmware numbering.

Still very happy with the whole experience. I don't think I could expect this level of service from any other manufacturer! It seems all projectors can have some issuesl. Nice to know how well Epson backs their products

Now I'm off to do some calibrating!

Wow, your second unit made it from January until last week without the red wavy lines happening frequently? Glad to hear your new one is performing well!
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post #3323 of 3635 Old 12-08-2010, 07:11 AM
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Well I am impressed. I called yesterday for a new unit and it is here today. Very happy with Epson.
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post #3324 of 3635 Old 12-08-2010, 08:21 AM
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Nice! I'm still waiting!
Post your initial findings when u hook it up.
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post #3325 of 3635 Old 12-08-2010, 08:25 AM
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Using Theater mode for Blu-Ray. Also I never need the iris at all for excellent contrast ratio and real blacks, so it is in the "off" status.
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post #3326 of 3635 Old 12-08-2010, 09:31 AM
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Cosmetically speaking, the new unit looks great. I don't see any cabinet nicks or scratches on the lens. I'll be hooking it up tonight and running the Spears & Munsil blu-ray.
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post #3327 of 3635 Old 12-08-2010, 09:58 AM
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When you run that S&M disk, can you get the vertical columns to all show on the white screen...That's the contrast screen yes?
I can do ok on the brightness screen (black vertical) but can only see about 3 or 4 bars on the white vertical screen!
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post #3328 of 3635 Old 12-08-2010, 10:10 AM
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Yes, the contrast screen (white) is what revealed my pjs problem. With THX ECO engaged it only showed 3 or 4 bars as well.
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post #3329 of 3635 Old 12-08-2010, 10:24 AM
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Theres a "brand new" Epson 8500 on my local Craigslist if anyone is in the midwest and is wanting to get one of these projectors.

http://wichita.craigslist.org/ele/2100498060.html
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post #3330 of 3635 Old 12-08-2010, 12:46 PM
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Yes, the contrast screen (white) is what revealed my pjs problem. With THX ECO engaged it only showed 3 or 4 bars as well.

I have a feeling that no matter what you won't see more than that with this PJ.
The AVCHD disk is better imo to set brightness and contrast!
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Reply Digital Projectors - Under $3,000 USD MSRP

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