Epson 8500UB 200,000:1 CR - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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Old 10-28-2009, 10:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeSRC View Post

Hi Darin,

I didn't measure the CR at all, as Art doesn't use that in his reviews.

Part of my question is whether you could get Art to use it in his reviews.

I did see the Epson at CEDIA and thought the black level was really good for the price range and especially appreciated that it didn't look like it had better corners on the darkest stuff. Kevin was going to let me see it with the DI enabled but the timing didn't really work out.

Thanks,
Darin

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Old 10-28-2009, 11:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darinp2 View Post

Part of my question is whether you could get Art to use it in his reviews.

I'll have to work on him to add that.

I had Kevin turn the DI on and off while watching those underwater scenes with bright spot lighting and dark background and didn't notice any "pumping" of the DI and actually very little darkening, but it was only for a minute or two. There were people clamoring to get in for the next "show" and we kept them waiting as it was.

Have to get back to the RS25 now.

Enjoy!

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Old 10-29-2009, 06:52 AM
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Art or Mike,
Since you two are the only lucky souls here to yet see the 8500, can you comment on any amount of video delay? According to Evan's review over at ProjCentral the Panasonic has less video lag. He mentions the possible need to use an audio delay to sync up the audio and video of the material being play in ones theater. So I was just curious if you observed any noticable video lag in the 8500.
Thanks
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Old 10-29-2009, 10:59 AM
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Hi Mike - it would be great if Art reported the dE information along with the grayscale results. IIRC normally he posts that it was within a range of x - y K (for example 6300K-6600K) between 20-100 IRE. However along with this its helpful to know how the dE tracked. Thanks!
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Old 10-29-2009, 02:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scoobygt68 View Post

Art or Mike,
Since you two are the only lucky souls here to yet see the 8500, can you comment on any amount of video delay?

That would be a question for Art, as I don't get into that for the calibration. In my limited time viewing a few movies, I didn't notice a problem.

Enjoy!

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Old 10-29-2009, 02:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post

Hi Mike - it would be great if Art reported the dE information along with the grayscale results. IIRC normally he posts that it was within a range of x - y K (for example 6300K-6600K) between 20-100 IRE. However along with this its helpful to know how the dE tracked. Thanks!

I agree. I'll see about doing that on the next one. For those interested, I've attached the Delta E and RGB info on the 9500 (THX mode, calibrated).
LL

Enjoy!

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Old 10-29-2009, 07:48 PM
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Jason, do you have an ETA on price/availability of the 8500UB? I think I saw statements such as "November availability". Any news or update?

Maybe I'm just getting antsy because I'm seeing the Panny shipment reports flying around

Cheers!
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Old 10-30-2009, 08:32 AM
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I have the electrician in today, and need to advise were to run the wire for the pj plug. According to the projector central calculator pro the 7500ub should be 16' from a 120' diagonal screen with a 1.1 gain. Is it safe to assume this would be the same for the 8500 or 9500ub? I trust the plug for the drop down screen should be slightly behind to the left end of the housing. Any input would be appreciated.
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Old 10-30-2009, 09:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdnscg View Post

According to the projector central calculator pro the 7500ub should be 16' from a 120' diagonal screen with a 1.1 gain. Is it safe to assume this would be the same for the 8500 or 9500ub?

Yes. The 6500UB/7500UB and 8500UB/9500UB share the same placement specs.

Why would it *need* to be placed at 16'? It can throw that sized picture from much closer than that. Is it to place it in the middle of the zoom range?

Art (not the Art that does PJ reviews)
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Old 10-30-2009, 09:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adpayne View Post

Yes. The 6500UB/7500UB and 8500UB/9500UB share the same placement specs.

Why would it *need* to be placed at 16'? It can throw that sized picture from much closer than that. Is it to place it in the middle of the zoom range?

Art (not the Art that does PJ reviews)

I was only going by the calculator. My room is 28' long. Would closer result in a better picture, and how close would you suggest.
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Old 10-30-2009, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by cdnscg View Post

I was only going by the calculator. My room is 28' long. Would closer result in a better picture, and how close would you suggest.

I *think* that a longer throw results in better blacks, but loss of brightness -- which makes sense. If this is true (more experienced users can confirm or correct me), I guess it depends on what is more important in your setup. My current 720p PJ is about 15 feet from the screen, and I'll keep the new projector in the same location.
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Old 10-30-2009, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daiglem View Post

I *think* that a longer throw results in better blacks, but loss of brightness -- which makes sense. If this is true (more experienced users can confirm or correct me), I guess it depends on what is more important in your setup. My current 720p PJ is about 15 feet from the screen, and I'll keep the new projector in the same location.

Like most, I want both. Better blacks, and no loss in brightness. One person told me that the pj should be placed in the last 3rd of the total distance suggested. Therefore a min 12 to max 25', it would be place at approx. 20'. This seems far however. Possibly I should split the difference, and go 18'. How much brightness would be lost, and black gained versus a 16' position?
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Old 10-30-2009, 11:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdnscg View Post

Like most, I want both. Better blacks, and no loss in brightness. One person told me that the pj should be placed in the last 3rd of the total distance suggested. Therefore a min 12 to max 25', it would be place at approx. 20'. This seems far however. Possibly I should split the difference, and go 18'. How much brightness would be lost, and black gained versus a 16' position?

Hm ... now you've got me thinking maybe I should change my location

Doesn't matter much with my 550, but the new one may be worthy of increased attention to these details
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Old 10-31-2009, 01:14 PM
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C'mon Epson! When are they gonna announce pricing?

With the new Panny 4000's being delivered and the initial reports of significant improvements over the 3000 it's hard not to jump on one.
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Old 10-31-2009, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by brian s View Post

c'mon epson! When are they gonna announce pricing?

With the new panny 4000's being delivered and the initial reports of significant improvements over the 3000 it's hard not to jump on one.

+1
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Old 10-31-2009, 01:31 PM
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Or is it better to go for a shorter throw, but run it in one of the more accurate, lower lumen modes?

- Chris
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Old 10-31-2009, 01:58 PM
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If Epson doesn't at least make some sort of announcement in the next week or so I'm going to have to bite on the Panny 4000. I don't understand why they would wait so long to make a move.
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Old 10-31-2009, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by astonius View Post

If Epson doesn't at least make some sort of announcement in the next week or so I'm going to have to bite on the Panny 4000. I don't understand why they would wait so long to make a move.

Agreed! I have been holding off just to see if the 8500 would be close in price but with all these glowing reports about the 4000 its getting tough to wait!
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Old 10-31-2009, 02:22 PM
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Originally Posted by astonius View Post

If Epson doesn't at least make some sort of announcement in the next week or so I'm going to have to bite on the Panny 4000. I don't understand why they would wait so long to make a move.

Agreed, but I'm probably going to go with the BenQ W6000. Aziz, light!
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Old 11-01-2009, 10:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrispy View Post

Or is it better to go for a shorter throw, but run it in one of the more accurate, lower lumen modes?

- Chris

This is what I prefer to do.

Closer throw, lower gain screen... Good blacks and plenty of brightness. You can run it farther back with a higher gain screen... Really it's two ways to get the same result.
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Old 11-02-2009, 07:25 AM
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Originally Posted by slider33 View Post

This is what I prefer to do.

Closer throw, lower gain screen... Good blacks and plenty of brightness. You can run it farther back with a higher gain screen... Really it's two ways to get the same result.

The problem for me is I don't want to see the projector. I have a black ceiling and with the projector behind me, I get the feeling of being in a real theater. Due to the width of my room and people sitting to the sides, higher gain screens reduce contrast and brightness to those people.

If projectors were sold like TV's, there would be a lot brighter models out on the market as people walk into Best Buy and wonder why the PJ looks so bad with all that fluorescent light pouring down from the ceiling.

Why is there NO perfect equipment, only compromises?
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Old 11-02-2009, 07:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slider33 View Post

This is what I prefer to do.

Closer throw, lower gain screen... Good blacks and plenty of brightness. You can run it farther back with a higher gain screen... Really it's two ways to get the same result.

What your opinion of a lower gain screen? 1.1 or less than 1?

Also, I would appreciate anyones advice on pj positioning concerning the following. The screen will be 120", and therefore will sit 1.5 x for approx., 15' away. I have a basement window on the side of the room at approx.. 16-15'. Would it be okay to place the pj at 14' which would result in it being in front of the seating area or does this matter. I'm concerned that, although the window will have shades, it may have some detrimental effect by interfering with the light from the pj if the unit is placed at or after the window. ie: 15' - 18'.
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Old 11-02-2009, 09:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slider33 View Post

This is what I prefer to do.

Closer throw, lower gain screen... Good blacks and plenty of brightness. You can run it farther back with a higher gain screen... Really it's two ways to get the same result.

It's not the same result. You get more CR in the "further back" position. A lower gain screen does not give more CR. But the optics when zoomed to a smaller image scatter less light and do give more CR.
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Old 11-02-2009, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdnscg View Post

What your opinion of a lower gain screen? 1.1 or less than 1?

Also, I would appreciate anyones advice on pj positioning concerning the following. The screen will be 120", and therefore will sit 1.5 x for approx., 15' away. I have a basement window on the side of the room at approx.. 16-15'. Would it be okay to place the pj at 14' which would result in it being in front of the seating area or does this matter. I'm concerned that, although the window will have shades, it may have some detrimental effect by interfering with the light from the pj if the unit is placed at or after the window. ie: 15' - 18'.

I've just been advised by my contractor that I need to confirm where the electrical plug needs to go for the eventual pj. Given that I plan to go with the 8500ub with a 120" screen with 1.1 gain(or different if advised) I would appreciate input on where the pj should go. If I go 14' will the contrast suffer that much compared to 16'? I don't think I want go further than that, but then I have an issue of a window at 16' (see above)
Thanks to all for any advice still this afternoon if possible.
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Old 11-02-2009, 11:42 AM
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I have a very small HT room, around 11x13. I will be sitting at the back arounf 12 feet from the screen, and the PJ will be mounted on the ceiling at the very back center of the room. I want a large screen with around 106" diagonal in 16:9 ratio. The 8500UB will display that image size no problem, from that short distance. But I am hearing that getting a large image size from a short distance will not give you a good CR? I do not understant that. I have a bat cave, and will have the projector in low light best setting for movies and throwing on a 1.0 gain screen.

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Old 11-02-2009, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by stereowise View Post

I have a very small HT room, around 11x13. I will be sitting at the back arounf 12 feet from the screen, and the PJ will be mounted on the ceiling at the very back center of the room. I want a large screen with around 106" diagonal in 16:9 ratio. The 8500UB will display that image size no problem, from that short distance. But I am hearing that getting a large image size from a short distance will not give you a good CR? I do not understant that. I have a bat cave, and will have the projector in low light best setting for movies and throwing on a 1.0 gain screen.

You have nothing to worry about. Your plan is sound and you will be blown away. I sit atout 12' from a 105" (custom size) screen and am currently using a Epson 1080UB. Go forward with your plan, you will be more than thrilled.
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Old 11-02-2009, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stereowise View Post

I have a very small HT room, around 11x13. I will be sitting at the back arounf 12 feet from the screen, and the PJ will be mounted on the ceiling at the very back center of the room. I want a large screen with around 106" diagonal in 16:9 ratio. The 8500UB will display that image size no problem, from that short distance. But I am hearing that getting a large image size from a short distance will not give you a good CR? I do not understant that. I have a bat cave, and will have the projector in low light best setting for movies and throwing on a 1.0 gain screen.

I'm not sure about the Epsons specifically, but with projectors in general:

The more the center of the optical components is used, the less light scatter there is. The less light scatter, the better the simultaneous CR. So, then, zooming it down to a smaller image keeps the image more in the center of the lenses and improves CR.
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Old 11-02-2009, 11:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erkq View Post

I'm not sure about the Epsons specifically, but with projectors in general:

The more the center of the optical components is used, the less light scatter there is. The less light scatter, the better the simultaneous CR. So, then, zooming it down to a smaller image keeps the image more in the center of the lenses and improves CR.

Therefore the closer the better...right?
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Old 11-02-2009, 12:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdnscg View Post

Therefore the closer the better...right?

Well, that depends on what you want. Closer = brighter. Farther = better contrast. But I think Horta makes the best point. Just enjoy, and you will!
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Old 11-02-2009, 12:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SimpleTheater View Post

The problem for me is I don't want to see the projector. I have a black ceiling and with the projector behind me, I get the feeling of being in a real theater. Due to the width of my room and people sitting to the sides, higher gain screens reduce contrast and brightness to those people.

I sit at 14' and the projector is at 13', but I can imagine if I sat back at 18' I most likely wouldn't want the projector in the same position.


Quote:
Originally Posted by erkq View Post

It's not the same result. You get more CR in the "further back" position. A lower gain screen does not give more CR. But the optics when zoomed to a smaller image scatter less light and do give more CR.

Sure, but then you're using a higher gain screen which doesn't produce the same black level, and doesn't allow as good of a viewing angle which someone touched on earlier. Many ways to do it, there are always going to be trade-offs, just depends on what is more important to you and the level of ambient lighting in the room.


Quote:
Originally Posted by cdnscg View Post

What your opinion of a lower gain screen? 1.1 or less than 1?

Also, I would appreciate anyones advice on pj positioning concerning the following. The screen will be 120", and therefore will sit 1.5 x for approx., 15' away. I have a basement window on the side of the room at approx.. 16-15'. Would it be okay to place the pj at 14' which would result in it being in front of the seating area or does this matter. I'm concerned that, although the window will have shades, it may have some detrimental effect by interfering with the light from the pj if the unit is placed at or after the window. ie: 15' - 18'.

I personally use a Carada standard Cinema White screen which is advertised at 1.0 gain. My room also has no windows and a shortish throw at 13' for the PJ, I was not worried about brightness.

With some ambient light from the window you may want to use a higher gain. I also would place the PJ in front of the window. There is no detriment to having the PJ in front of you, other than that you can see it. If the room is pitch black it should not really matter, and if it so happens to be far enough back your peripheral vision won't see it anyway.
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