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post #451 of 3635 Old 11-06-2009, 11:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darinp2 View Post

I'm pretty skeptical about some of these claims from the EG. Did Epson change the lamp from 6500UB? I didn't think so and Evan of projectorcentral measured significant light drop just in 150 hours with one of last year's Epsons. This claim that there is no need to recalibrate when changing a lamp seems a little over the top (salesperson-speak) too. Has Epson figured out how to get the same color balance from every lamp or do they sense the color from the lamp and make automatic adjustments? I highly doubt it. And as far as driving the lamps harder as they age, this sounds great, but since lumens out of the box sell projectors why don't they drive them harder out of the gate to get more lumens and sell more projectors? Is there some reason the projector itself can't handle the extra lumens coming from the lamp and so they have to wait until the lamp ages to drive it harder? If there is no physical reason then is Epson's marketing department just not doing their jobs?

These are some of the questions I would ask given that we've seen claims that were out there (remember the guy who claimed their projector hardly had anything from the JVC other than the chips and they had all their own software, yet the menus were identical and they had the same color controls as JVC, so no CMS at the time) and a lot of times when more questions are asked it turns out that the information was pretty much complete BS. I'm not saying I know this stuff about the lamps to not be true, but at even odds I wouldn't put my money on it.

And if it is true for the new models and not for the old models and yet the new models have at least as many lumens at zero hours as the old models then Epson should definitely be getting word out about this real soon. I assume they know that they need to compete with Panasonic for customers and the Panasonic is already available.

--Darin

FWIW, being the one who wrote the report in question, let me say that I just wanted to type down what the EG told me without coloring it too much with my own judgement. I have never had an Epson yet, have never measured one, so I can't really judge myself...
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post #452 of 3635 Old 11-06-2009, 11:59 PM
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The lamp auto adjust in the 8500 seems far fetched. Epson would advertise that like crazy. Well, maybe they have few tricks up their sleeves like Panny! $1999 street with a n extra lamp! Take that Panny! This is business war, and if they have to sacrifice profit to maintain or gain market share, so be it.

I think the 8500 will be a better performer than the Panny by a bit. Since I will have a bat cave, I am leaning toward the Epson. Anyone know if the Epson has a sealed light path? If so its a done deal...peace of mind.
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post #453 of 3635 Old 11-07-2009, 02:24 AM
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I agree that the lamp auto adjust is just the idea of some wild sales person. No reviewer has even mentioned it. I was at CEDIA and I spoke to the Epson people and no one said anything about it. The only differences are the new iris, and new processor. I believe one should still wait 100 hour for calibration. Epson does not have a sealed light path but they have a very good filter system. I have never had a dust blob in my 7500.
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post #454 of 3635 Old 11-08-2009, 07:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rwestley View Post

I agree that the lamp auto adjust is just the idea of some wild sales person. No reviewer has even mentioned it. I was at CEDIA and I spoke to the Epson people and no one said anything about it. The only differences are the new iris, and new processor. I believe one should still wait 100 hour for calibration. Epson does not have a sealed light path but they have a very good filter system. I have never had a dust blob in my 7500.

Hi,
Is the new iris system to quieten the iris, to improve black levels, to decrease pumping, all all three? Just wondered if this iris is in addition to some sort of lamp modulation, or manual iris, or if its just a tweak of the old iris. Either way, progress is progress...
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post #455 of 3635 Old 11-08-2009, 07:11 AM
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If the 8500's iris is the same as the 8100's iris, then the new implementation has not resulted in a quieter operation. It still annoying and loud. I'm running an 8100 right now temporarily. I will not be keeping it.
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post #456 of 3635 Old 11-08-2009, 11:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neekos View Post

If the 8500's iris is the same as the 8100's iris, then the new implementation has not resulted in a quieter operation. It still annoying and loud. I'm running an 8100 right now temporarily. I will not be keeping it.

The 8100 is not in the same league as the 8500UB. You can't make any comparisons. The 8100 is better than the 6100, and the 8500UB is better than the 6500UB, and that is the only comparisons that can be made.

According to Art (http://www.projectorreviews.com/epso...erformance.php) - 8500UB review
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Epson's dynamic iris makes a low rumbling noise that isn't very loud or noticeable in my opinion, but I do know that it bothers some folks. I rarely, if ever notice it when the Epson is in the main theater - about 4 feet behind my seat. In some cases, I believe mounts or a rear shelf can resonate a bit with the low frequencies. I've noticed that by putting some soft drink coasters between the projector and the table it sits on, helps reduce the rumbling. Again, however, it is low frequency and to me definitely a lot less noticeable than the fan noise.


- Claus {non-Santa model}
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post #457 of 3635 Old 11-08-2009, 12:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CT_Wiebe View Post

The 8100 is not in the same league as the 8500UB. You can't make any comparisons. The 8100 is better than the 6100, and the 8500UB is better than the 6500UB, and that is all the only comparisons that can be made.

According to Art (http://www.projectorreviews.com/epso...erformance.php) - 8500UB review

I was referring to the iris function of both units. I know there is a huge difference in performance otherwise.
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post #458 of 3635 Old 11-08-2009, 05:25 PM
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What about the 8100 vs. the 6500?

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post #459 of 3635 Old 11-08-2009, 07:11 PM
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The 6500 has better black levels than the 8100.
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post #460 of 3635 Old 11-08-2009, 08:20 PM
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To me this 200,000:1 is a silly number. Dependent on auto-iris, probably no one in the world will be able to measure such result.

I know it bothers the JVC cult, but I have always been a big booster of ANSI as being equally important to on-off.

You need to have ANSI and on-off and weigh each one exactly equal to value image quality, also other factors come into effect, color accuracy for just one of the laundry list.

I have not read Art's write up, but I bet he measured ANSI at like 600:1???

We are in a period of technological development and availability now where we should see:

4,000:1 ANSI static contrast
30,000:1 on-off WITHOUT an IRIS of any kind

This is a projector based on the technology these people have available but are afraid to innovate to, but we should see a FPJ available now with those numbers measurable.

I will not upgrade again until the box has LED in huge letters.
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post #461 of 3635 Old 11-08-2009, 09:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krinkle View Post

To me this 200,000:1 is a silly number. Dependent on auto-iris, probably no one in the world will be able to measure such result.

I know it bothers the JVC cult, but I have always been a big booster of ANSI as being equally important to on-off.

You need to have ANSI and on-off and weigh each one exactly equal to value image quality, also other factors come into effect, color accuracy for just one of the laundry list.

I have not read Art's write up, but I bet he measured ANSI at like 600:1???

We are in a period of technological development and availability now where we should see:

4,000:1 ANSI static contrast
30,000:1 on-off WITHOUT an IRIS of any kind

This is a projector based on the technology these people have available but are afraid to innovate to, but we should see a FPJ available now with those numbers measurable.

I will not upgrade again until the box has LED in huge letters.

I would upgrade even if the "LED" letters were little.

BTW, I'm a JVC fan but agree they need to improve their ANSI contrast.
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post #462 of 3635 Old 11-09-2009, 05:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krinkle View Post

To me this 200,000:1 is a silly number. Dependent on auto-iris, probably no one in the world will be able to measure such result.

I know it bothers the JVC cult, but I have always been a big booster of ANSI as being equally important to on-off.

You need to have ANSI and on-off and weigh each one exactly equal to value image quality, also other factors come into effect, color accuracy for just one of the laundry list.

I have not read Art's write up, but I bet he measured ANSI at like 600:1???

We are in a period of technological development and availability now where we should see:

4,000:1 ANSI static contrast
30,000:1 on-off WITHOUT an IRIS of any kind

This is a projector based on the technology these people have available but are afraid to innovate to, but we should see a FPJ available now with those numbers measurable.

I will not upgrade again until the box has LED in huge letters.

The value of ANSI contrast is given way too much credit here, IMO! I have video displays with huge ANSI contrast and displays with relatively low ANSI contrast. Full one/off, IMO (especially in a light controlled room), is much more important to image quality and this can be easily demonstrated. By the way - Cinde4ome using an external filter in "dynamic" mode measured a full on/off C.R. of 160,000:1 with relatively accurate colour for the Epson 8500. Even high full on/off C.R. becomes rather meaningless once you obtain a certain ratio unless you're looking for complete fade to blacks which can be held indefinitely (which my gamma corrected CRT will do, but it has low ANSI, but still rivals my Samsung LED T.V. for overall image quality - how can this be?).
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post #463 of 3635 Old 11-09-2009, 06:46 AM
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Look what Epson has in store for us in the future
http://www.epson.co.jp/e/newsroom/20...s_20091109.htm

I wonder what the cost will be and how soon it will trickle down to the home market. This chip supports 3D and will be show to the public in a few weeks. The next two years should be instresting.
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post #464 of 3635 Old 11-10-2009, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rwestley View Post

I agree that the lamp auto adjust is just the idea of some wild sales person. No reviewer has even mentioned it. I was at CEDIA and I spoke to the Epson people and no one said anything about it. The only differences are the new iris, and new processor. I believe one should still wait 100 hour for calibration. Epson does not have a sealed light path but they have a very good filter system. I have never had a dust blob in my 7500.

Well darn't I was hoping this was real. I know either way we won't know for sure until the product is released, but if it was all true Epson would be foolish to not advertise the heck out of it.

The thought of a never dimming bulb was exciting for a while....

Ok so now we can all get back to asking about the price and ship date!!!

Jerry
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post #465 of 3635 Old 11-10-2009, 11:33 AM
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Nothing new yet...I think they forgot.
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post #466 of 3635 Old 11-10-2009, 01:35 PM
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Based on what (little) information we have, shouldn't this thread get moved to the "Under $3,000" forums section?

Last word was the pricing was to be "under $2500" with a big question mark on any rebates or free bulbs.
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post #467 of 3635 Old 11-10-2009, 09:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Llathos View Post

Based on what (little) information we have, shouldn't this thread get moved to the "Under $3,000" forums section?

Last word was the pricing was to be "under $2500" with a big question mark on any rebates or free bulbs.

The pricing you are quoting is "street price" not MSRP. It may be below 3K, or it may not. Why are so many people worried about where a thread should be located?

Art
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post #468 of 3635 Old 11-11-2009, 06:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adpayne View Post

The pricing you are quoting is "street price" not MSRP. It may be below 3K, or it may not. Why are so many people worried about where a thread should be located?

Art

When this thread was started the MSRP was $3,000! Panasonic changed the landscape with their AE4000 coming in at $2,495 and streeting for $1,999.00. Now, in response, Epson has lowered it's pricing. I think this is the third or forth time in this thread someone has asked why the 8500UB is here in the over $3,000 forum. One major improvement (black level) by either Panasonic or Epson and we'll have an interesting situation where arguably the "best" projectors will be found in the under $3,000 forum - we're very close now.
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post #469 of 3635 Old 11-11-2009, 07:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post

When this thread was started the MSRP was $3,000! Panasonic changed the landscape with their AE4000 coming in at $2,495 and streeting for $1,999.00. Now, in response, Epson has lowered it's pricing. I think this is the third or forth time in this thread someone has asked why the 8500UB is here in the over $3,000 forum. One major improvement (black level) by either Panasonic or Epson and we'll have an interesting situation where arguably the "best" projectors will be found in the under $3,000 forum - we're very close now.

Epson unofficially stated a street price of under $2500. Until it's announced by Epson though I wouldnt bet the bank on it. I personally have already decided to wait and get the epson as Ive always had Epsons and I use my projector a lot so I prefer the longer warranty.... but from a retail standpoint I don't see any advantages to keeping so hush hush on the pricing this close to the release... unless they are either a) not worried about losing customers to panny who dont have the patience to wait or b) are anticipating a delay in the release. Bottom line the longer the wait the more it raises suspicion as to what's going on.....
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post #470 of 3635 Old 11-11-2009, 08:17 AM
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There's always the possibility that they discovered something was wrong with the unit.
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post #471 of 3635 Old 11-11-2009, 08:56 AM
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There's always the possibility that they discovered something was wrong with the unit.

There is always the possibility they are squeezing in some last minute Grand Feature to blow the competition out of the water.

Jerry
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post #472 of 3635 Old 11-11-2009, 10:38 AM
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Perhaps we suffer from some sort of snob appeal and just don't want to admit a really great pj can come in under 3 grand and force us to (horrors) go "slumming" in the under 3 grand forum. I for one am thrilled that we now find such great products in the under 3 grand forum where I believe the Epson 8500msrp will end up by a whole dollar. Technology advances and becomes cheaper for which I am grateful. If we must feel superior, perhaps we should change the limit to $2,500 for now. Of course judging by the Panasonic 4000 and other company's need to remain competitive we might have to do the cutoff at 2 grand by next year. This is progress. I suspect the original cut off made sense as there was a clear significant jump in picture quality after 3 grand. I think we are on the way to that being true at 2 grand very soon...after that the improvements are real but not especially significant for even fairly demanding viewers.

Or it could be I am getting bored waiting for Epson to work out deal with Jason and just enjoy stirring up some discussion to amuse myself for a few days.
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post #473 of 3635 Old 11-11-2009, 11:05 AM
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Yay!! Man, talk about a lot of projector for the money.

So.... what's a good ceiling mount for this bad boy? I see tons of mounts on Ebay for the 6500UB, but I don't know if I should steer clear of those or not.

- Chris
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post #474 of 3635 Old 11-11-2009, 11:31 AM
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What are they saying in terms of availability/ship dates?
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post #475 of 3635 Old 11-11-2009, 11:33 AM
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Finally some prices!!! What is the release date?

Now what to do??? 8100, 8500 or 4000u. So many choices!
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post #476 of 3635 Old 11-11-2009, 11:50 AM
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Eh, not so great for us California residents, tax is a killer. It didn't even say if shipping was included or extra ... for missing ~$40 savings, I'll wait for the initial reports.
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post #477 of 3635 Old 11-11-2009, 11:57 AM
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Pretty much what was speculated. No word on release date....probably a couple of weeks.

I think from reading the reviews that the 8500 and the ae4000 are pretty much equal to one another.
So now the argument is over the value of the longer bulb and warranty life on the Epson vs the $200-300 extra cost over the AE4000.

Again, pretty much a wash!

Flip a coin?!?
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post #478 of 3635 Old 11-11-2009, 11:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post

When this thread was started the MSRP was $3,000! Panasonic changed the landscape with their AE4000 coming in at $2,495 and streeting for $1,999.00. Now, in response, Epson has lowered it's pricing. I think this is the third or forth time in this thread someone has asked why the 8500UB is here in the over $3,000 forum. One major improvement (black level) by either Panasonic or Epson and we'll have an interesting situation where arguably the "best" projectors will be found in the under $3,000 forum - we're very close now.

So true Deja!

The snobs will hate it but its becoming a possibility as FPJ manufacturers are scared to embrace the new technologies and give us something on the high end to keep the crown.
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post #479 of 3635 Old 11-11-2009, 12:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krinkle View Post

So true Deja!

The snobs will hate it but its becoming a possibility as FPJ manufacturers are scared to embrace the new technologies and give us something on the high end to keep the crown.

Lose the auto-iris and this snob is on-board!
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post #480 of 3635 Old 11-11-2009, 01:12 PM
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Well Jason made my day. I have my order placed with AVS.
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Reply Digital Projectors - Under $3,000 USD MSRP

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