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post #271 of 8545 Old 10-16-2009, 12:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by convexion View Post

I could see it being a problem on a movie like The Dark Knight but not really that big of a deal.

You beat me to my answer. The Dark Knight is a good example. Also, everytime I start a movie from the menu, I don't want to see Processing............................................... ANNOYING! Then your audience is asking you about it instead of being sucked into the movie.
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post #272 of 8545 Old 10-16-2009, 12:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thorr View Post

You beat me to my answer. The Dark Knight is a good example. Also, everytime I start a movie from the menu, I don't want to see Processing............................................... ANNOYING! Then your audience is asking you about it instead of being sucked into the movie.

Agree 100%. I will be very annoyed if that stupid "processing" notice is there everytime there is an AR change.

Hopefully if it is, they will remove it via firmware option down the road.

Good, cheap, easy - pick any two.
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post #273 of 8545 Old 10-16-2009, 12:37 PM
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About this "Processing" message...

Let's say I have a 16:9 screen. I am watching the Dark Knight (black bars on top and bottom). Will the auto zoom kick in and the "Processing" message appear everytime the IMAX footage comes up?

OR

Does the auto zoom only occur if you are initially zooming to fill a scope screen (so no black bars on top and bottom) and then the IMAX footage pops up.
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post #274 of 8545 Old 10-16-2009, 01:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobn4burton View Post

True...although you need to also take into account the dates for those movies:
Shawshank Redemption, 1994, 1.85
Godfather, 1972, 1.85
Godfather II, 1974, 1.85
il buono, 1966, 2.35
Pulp Fiction, 1994, 2.35
Schindler's List, 1993, 1.85
12 Angry Men, 1966, 1.66
One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, 1975, 1.85
The Dark Knight, 2008, 2.35/1.78 (or 1.85?)
Star Wars, 1980, 2.20

So...it is a little unfair to compare the top ten movies when 6 of the 10 movies where all 1980 or earlier. I think 2.35 movies have become more popular lately, especially with blu-rays.

So while your point is well taken...there are a lot of good movies that are in a 16:9 format. My personal opinion is that 2.35 is becoming more popular than 1.78/85 with newer movies...especially on blu-ray format.

I agree that 2.35 has great movies (and trashy chick flicks) as you stated, more and more all the time, however, Nosferatu, Casablanca, Bridge on the River Qwai, Godfather, Raging Bull, The Maltese Falcon, Full Metal Jacket, etc will never be 2.35, and they will always be THE Classics people return to as they will always be some of the earliest (and some think the finest) examples of film.

Alright, no more CIH chat from me...honest.
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post #275 of 8545 Old 10-16-2009, 01:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by convexion View Post

I could see it being a problem on a movie like The Dark Knight but not really that big of a deal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thorr View Post

You beat me to my answer. The Dark Knight is a good example. Also, everytime I start a movie from the menu, I don't want to see Processing............................................... ANNOYING! Then your audience is asking you about it instead of being sucked into the movie.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PAP View Post

Agree 100%. I will be very annoyed if that stupid "processing" notice is there everytime there is an AR change.

Hopefully if it is, they will remove it via firmware option down the road.

I'm a little confused on how The Dark Knight is a good example for this 'problem'?

While I too would prefer it to not state "processing" as the zoom/focus changes, Batman is a silly movie to use the auto feature even if the message didn't pop up. From my understanding, changing zoom/focus takes a minimum of 5 seconds, and while it's happening, the image is also out of focus.

With that in mind, why would you actually want for this to happen in realtime at all? I'd rather either stick with one aspect ratio, but even if I wanted to keep something approaching constant height, I'd want to pause the movie anyway.

Given the mechanics of this feature, it obviously isn't intended for use in realtime with material that regularly switches ratios.
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post #276 of 8545 Old 10-16-2009, 01:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raistlin_HT View Post

Given the mechanics of this feature, it obviously isn't intended for use in realtime with material that regularly switches ratios.

Raistlin...we'll have no rational comments in this thread! You have just touched upon a point that most everyone has neglected to consider until now...who the heck cares if "processing" is blinking...if its over a blurry image? Don't bother me none...those of you on the preorder list who are now having buyers remorse...PM me your best cash price on this unit, taking into consideration that by the time you PM me, Panasonic will probably have lowered the MAP...
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post #277 of 8545 Old 10-16-2009, 02:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobn4burton View Post

I agree that CIH is the 'holy grail' of HT of sorts. I am doing CIH in my personal theater.

However, the poster you quoted was correct. You are interpolating the VERTICAL resolution with the image processor...and interpolating means that you are adding data to the video that wasn't originally there.



How can you stretch video vertically without adding information? This 'stretching' process is called interpolation and you are definitely adding information that wasn't there to begin with.

A blu-ray movie has a set resolution and a 2.35:1 blu-ray is wasting some of the vertical resolution with black bars on top/bottom. For a 1080p movie, the video processor just takes the ~720 vertical lines of ACTUAL VIDEO, cropping off the black bars, and stretches (interpolates) them to fit the full 1080 vertical lines of the PJ. Then the a.lens just stretches the image horizontally to correct for the screwed up AR after the vertical stretching.

In summary, a lens setup does use the full 1080 lines of the projector...although you don't really have anymore data than what was there before because you had to interpolate in order to fill those 1080 lines. There was never 1080 vertical lines in the source movie...so the benefit of stretching to 1080 and then shrinking optically is debatable... The clearer advantage to using a lens is that since you are using all 1080 vertical lines...you get that much more light from your projector actually being used on the video image instead of being wasted on the masking above and below screen. So you get a brighter image (although this isn't 1:1 because you do lose some light going through a lens, and there are arguments that zooming also gives you a brighter image because of the lens position...but all arguments on the table, I do believe you get a slightly brighter image overall using a lens.)

Long story short...if money is no concern, a lens setup is probably the best way to go. You can get a slightly brighter image and more importantly you can choose between a much wider range of PJ's.

If money is a concern, then the panny is a great way to go. You get nearly as good of an image compared to a lens setup. You cost will be at least half that of a lens setup. The biggest problem to a zoomed 'CIH' setup is that you are limited to ONE projector...this panny. (not counting those that manually zoom a projector by hand, that would get old real fast for me)

I am doing the zoomed CIH setup using the panny. I think its by far the best bang for the buck CIH setup and I will be very happy with it.

the zoomed CIH set up will give you the best image also. So you pay less and you get a better image to boot.
I have stayed away from LCD because of image blur but I am wondering if that has improved.
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post #278 of 8545 Old 10-16-2009, 03:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raistlin_HT View Post

I'm a little confused on how The Dark Knight is a good example for this 'problem'?

While I too would prefer it to not state "processing" as the zoom/focus changes, Batman is a silly movie to use the auto feature even if the message didn't pop up. From my understanding, changing zoom/focus takes a minimum of 5 seconds, and while it's happening, the image is also out of focus.

With that in mind, why would you actually want for this to happen in realtime at all? I'd rather either stick with one aspect ratio, but even if I wanted to keep something approaching constant height, I'd want to pause the movie anyway.

Given the mechanics of this feature, it obviously isn't intended for use in realtime with material that regularly switches ratios.

Good points. I hadn't considered that it would be out of focus during the aspect ratio changes. Your idea to pause the movie for a moment is a good one though, although I may be able to live with an out of focus picture for a few moments. Having "processing..." all over the picture is another story though.
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post #279 of 8545 Old 10-16-2009, 03:30 PM
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Not trying to change the subject,do they make a dust cover for Pany projectors when not in use.
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post #280 of 8545 Old 10-16-2009, 03:58 PM
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I need to jump on this bandwagon. Im considering this projector, with a 100" screen. What are your suggestions for screen aspect ratio? 16:9? 2:35:1??? Im confused!

Thanks, Scott
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post #281 of 8545 Old 10-16-2009, 04:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lalawyer View Post

I need to jump on this bandwagon. Im considering this projector, with a 100" screen. What are your suggestions for screen aspect ratio? 16:9? 2:35:1??? Im confused!

Thanks, Scott

I'm kind of in the same boat ... though won't be making a purchase until later next year.



From the limited research I've done however, I'd say the first thing to consider is your room. Specifically, what usable height versus width do you have? In my case, I'll be building a dedicated theater in the basement. With that in mind, the room will not be particularly tall, but the width of the screen can be basically however wide I want it.

In my case, I can't think of a reason NOT to go with 2.35:1. If you do not have such limitations, then I suppose it comes down to preference ... keeping in mind what sort of content you will use the most (movies versus HD TV, games, etc).
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post #282 of 8545 Old 10-16-2009, 04:32 PM
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Well, I don't really have any limitations re: usable height. My only limitation is seating distance to screen, which is why I picked the 100" diag. Other than that, the wall that the screen will go on is plenty tall and wide.

The screen use will primarly be for movies. I'm putting a 65" plasma on the wall behind the screen for general TV viewing when the screen is up.

What are most movies shot in these days?

Thanks,
Scott
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post #283 of 8545 Old 10-16-2009, 04:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lalawyer View Post

Well, I don't really have any limitations re: usable height. My only limitation is seating distance to screen, which is why I picked the 100" diag. Other than that, the wall that the screen will go on is plenty tall and wide.

The screen use will primarly be for movies. I'm putting a 65" plasma on the wall behind the screen for general TV viewing when the screen is up.

What are most movies shot in these days?

Thanks,
Scott

I'd say most are > 16:9. Since you have no real limitations and you will already have a large Plasma for TV viewing, I would think going 2.35:1 would make sense.
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post #284 of 8545 Old 10-16-2009, 05:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lalawyer View Post

...when the screen is up.

Are you planning on getting a roll-up screen? I haven't checked, but I am not sure if they make them in 2.35:1.
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post #285 of 8545 Old 10-16-2009, 05:50 PM
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Yes, motorized roll up. And I'm not seeing them in that size either.
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post #286 of 8545 Old 10-16-2009, 06:07 PM
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You can get a 16:9 and just roll it down far enough for 2.35:1 assuming it lets you stop it exactly where you want it. The only limitation is the top of your screen is the top of your screen (2.35:1 will be centered higher than 16:9 on your wall). You will also have to mount your plasma at the top too so it gets fully covered by the screen in 2.35:1 mode.

Thinking about it, that is a clever way to do masking. Just make sure the wall behind it is black or at least a dark color.
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post #287 of 8545 Old 10-16-2009, 07:17 PM
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At this price, I'm considering the 4000 for a bedroom. I have a 52" Sony XBR LCD in the room now, and my sister wants to get an LCD about that size. So, it could work out well for both of us, if the 4000 will fit in my room. Problem is, I can't seem to locate the screen calculator - rather, I can't locate the projector in any of the calculators I can find.

From the lens to the screen, the distance may be as short as 8.5 feet. I'd be happy with a roughly 80" screen. Can anyone tell me if the 4000 would work at that distance, or point me to a calculator with the AE4000 in the list?

Edit: OK, I just found it. At 8.5', the calculator returns a screen size of 65". Is this the max size or does the red area in the Projector Central calculator indicate that this is in the middle of the zoom range? I'd like to go 75", preferably 80".

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post #288 of 8545 Old 10-16-2009, 07:24 PM
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Here is a link to the projector central AE4000 throw calculator.
http://www.projectorcentral.com/Pana...ulator-pro.htm

Max 16:9 screen size at 8'6" is 86"
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post #289 of 8545 Old 10-16-2009, 08:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edpowers View Post

Here is a link to the projector central AE4000 throw calculator.
http://www.projectorcentral.com/Pana...ulator-pro.htm

Max 16:9 screen size at 8'6" is 86"

Thanks, Ed. That'll work.

What's the latest on availability, guys?

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post #290 of 8545 Old 10-16-2009, 09:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joshmvf View Post

Just got my pre-order in yesterday with VA, hopefully I'm on the first shipment.

Can anybody suggest a good (and cheap) ceiling mount that would work with this? It's my first pj so I don't currently have one.

These mounts from Parts Express are great and very low cost. I use one with my Panasonic PT-AE500U and it works great. I will soon be jumping on the AE4000 bandwagon when I order one in December and I expect to simply move the mount to the new PJ at that time.

http://www.parts-express.com/wizards...romo=&srchAttr=

"But it's just a flesh wound!"
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post #291 of 8545 Old 10-17-2009, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by PaulM View Post

Same here... my 3000 is on its way. But I confess... I missed the news on the AE4000 price, and assumed it would hit the street at closer to $3k. Still, I got a great deal on an awesome projector, so I won't lose any sleep over it. Ya gotta pull the trigger sometime.

Thought I'd mention... I un-pulled the trigger on the 3000 and pre-ordered the 4000. My wife talked me into it. So I'm very happy on at least 3 counts:
1. I'll have an even awesome-er pj.
2. Projector People (Carmen) was a pleasure to deal with. After my order had shipped, I was advised to just refuse shipment from ups, so it goes straight back to PP at no charge to me at all. Then PP does a full refund.
3. I have a wife who talks me into spending more on HT stuff.

How cool is all that? Oh, while I'm counting my blessings, AVS Forum rocks!

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post #292 of 8545 Old 10-17-2009, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lalawyer View Post

I need to jump on this bandwagon. Im considering this projector, with a 100" screen. What are your suggestions for screen aspect ratio? 16:9? 2:35:1??? Im confused!

Thanks, Scott

It really depends on what you watch most of the time or what is most important to you. Superbowl is the big event at my house. The impact of filling a 100" 16:9 screen is more than a side masked 95" 2.35:1. What I like about my AE3000 is that is is easy to move the image to the top of the screen and mask the bottom with a velvet curtain for 2.35:1. The advantage of the AE4000 is even with 2.35 movies the menu is 16:9. THe AE4000 can make the adjustments automatically.

120" Electric Motorized Remote Projection Screen Movie Projector Black Matt 16:9, Elite Screens R115WH1-WIDE ezFrame Fixed Projection Screen (115" 2.35:1 AR)(CineWhite), Onkyo TX-NR616 7.2-Channel THX Select2 Plus Certified Network A/V Receiver(Black), Klipsch Reference Series R-1650-C In-Wall/In...
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post #293 of 8545 Old 10-17-2009, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Bujee1 View Post

It really depends on what you watch most of the time or what is most important to you. Superbowl is the big event at my house. The impact of filling a 100" 16:9 screen is more than a side masked 95" 2.35:1. What I like about my AE3000 is that is is easy to move the image to the top of the screen and mask the bottom with a velvet curtain for 2.35:1. The advantage of the AE4000 is even with 2.35 movies the menu is 16:9. THe AE4000 can make the adjustments automatically.

DANG! I didn't realize that was a difference between the 3000 and 4000.
Now I may have to eliminate the 3000 from consideration if the 4000 "auto detects" and adjust for 16:9 menu screens, and the 3000 does not.

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post #294 of 8545 Old 10-17-2009, 11:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulM View Post

3. I have a wife who talks me into spending more on HT stuff.

How cool is all that? Oh, while I'm counting my blessings, AVS Forum rocks!

Paul

My wife could care less about this stuff. If she actully knew how much I spent on a/v gear over the last 5 years, she'd pass out I think.
If I actully had her suggesting more/bigger/better things to buy, I would be in big trouble.

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post #295 of 8545 Old 10-17-2009, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by PAP View Post

Agree 100%. I will be very annoyed if that stupid "processing" notice is there every time there is an AR change.

Hopefully if it is, they will remove it via firmware option down the road.

Has there ever been a firmware update on the 3000? And how would you even do it? My DVD player offers two options: via Ethernet or pop in a disc. I don't see a way with the 3000 or 4000.

Nick
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post #296 of 8545 Old 10-17-2009, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by just nick View Post

has there ever been a firmware update on the 3000? And how would you even do it? My dvd player offers two options: Via ethernet or pop in a disc. I don't see a way with the 3000 or 4000.

Nick

rs232

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post #297 of 8545 Old 10-17-2009, 12:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeroskill View Post

This one here shows the Auto function:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QON8OdvLV5k

According to the video, it takes about 5-6 seconds.

Thanks, zeroskill. The final seconds of the demo did finally demonstrate it for real. And, yes it's too bad they've got that annoying "PROCESSING" box flashing in the dead center of the screen the whole time. I can almost see why they'd want to let you know what was happening and that it was working, but how about a tiny, non-flashing "auto" or something in a corner?

Too bad. Any bets on whether or not the AE5000 will offer the ability to opt out of that annoying flashing, on-screen "PROCESSING" junk? Might be worth waiting for...lol. Five great steps forward and three very annoying steps backward for no apparent good reason as far as I'm concerned.
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post #298 of 8545 Old 10-17-2009, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Smarty-pants View Post

rs232

Would that be the port on the back labeled "serial"?

And if so, has anyone updated firmware this way? Is it cumbersome?
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post #299 of 8545 Old 10-17-2009, 01:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hitchfan View Post

Thanks, zeroskill. The final seconds of the demo did finally demonstrate it for real. And, yes it's too bad they've got that annoying "PROCESSING" box flashing in the dead center of the screen the whole time. I can almost see why they'd want to let you know what was happening and that it was working, but how about a tiny, non-flashing "auto" or something in a corner?

Too bad. Any bets on whether or not the AE5000 will offer the ability to opt out of that annoying flashing, on-screen "PROCESSING" junk? Might be worth waiting for...lol. Five great steps forward and three very annoying steps backward for no apparent good reason as far as I'm concerned.



*bites tongue*



Quote:
Originally Posted by Just Nick View Post

Would that be the port on the back labeled "serial"?

And if so, has anyone updated firmware this way? Is it cumbersome?

Yes, serial is RS-232.

It certainly can be more cumbersome than using Ethernet or USB, but that's not entirely the fault of the interface. A lot of companies simply do very little to make the updating procedure clean.

Regardless, the main issue most people find is that they no longer have a serial adapter on their computer. To remedy this, there are USB->serial adapters available, though not all work with everything. I'd have to look up the model I have. Onkyo is a weird bird. Their receivers and pre/pros are amongst the most cutting edge available, yet they haven't moved beyond rs-232 for firmware updates. So needless to say, I've done some FW updates via serial.
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post #300 of 8545 Old 10-17-2009, 01:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hitchfan View Post

Thanks, zeroskill. The final seconds of the demo did finally demonstrate it for real. And, yes it's too bad they've got that annoying "PROCESSING" box flashing in the dead center of the screen the whole time. I can almost see why they'd want to let you know what was happening and that it was working, but how about a tiny, non-flashing "auto" or something in a corner?

Too bad. Any bets on whether or not the AE5000 will offer the ability to opt out of that annoying flashing, on-screen "PROCESSING" junk? Might be worth waiting for...lol. Five great steps forward and three very annoying steps backward for no apparent good reason as far as I'm concerned.

I agree with you. So your telling me the stupid processing is gonna flash on screen during movies like Dark Knight, Transformers 2 Imax version, and others like Enchanted that start out pillarboxed and then open up after the opening!!!???? If so this may be a deal killer for me. I don't wanna be enjoying a movie and then when it switches ratios have that pop up on the screen everytime. There is no way to disable the auto switch ratio feature?
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