Panasonic PT-AE4000 MSRP $1999 - Page 16 - AVS Forum
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post #451 of 8516 Old 10-24-2009, 08:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smarty-pants View Post

Bob, thanks for the reply.

So just t be 100% clear...
If the user intends to use the lens memory feature, for something like a CIH setup, then the center of the lens needs to be parallel with the very top edge of the screen (not masking/border, but actual screen) when ceiling mounted, or parallel with the botton edge of the screen when shelf/table mounting... or somewhere in between those two points.

If going outside (above/below) the realm of the actual screen, then the user will have to tilt the projector up or down, to get the picture on_screen into the safe zone, and possibly use keystone correction (not lens shift) to compensate.
Lens shift IS already being used since the lens is not in the center of the screen.

^^^ Please concur if this is correct. ^^^


Now, with the scenario above being used as an example...
Let's say the lens is in perfect alignment with the top and or bottom of the screen...
This will make using vertical lens shift necessary.

Is there any way to still use any horizontal lens shift too, or is that out of the question since the lens is already at the extreme end of the criteria for using the lens memory feature?


I am bit confussed now...

I had read in the ae3000 owners thread that the center of lens had to be within 10" max of the edge of screen for lens memory setup.

I really wish we could get some hard intel on this issue.
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post #452 of 8516 Old 10-24-2009, 09:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilsiu View Post

That is correct. The lens memory relies on digital, not physical, lens shift. Once the center of the lens is outside the boundaries, then you can only recenter the image via physical shift. The sketch below shows what happens when the lens sits outside the screen edge of the 16x9 screen (yellow area). When you zoom out for 2.35, then the bottom edge is no longer aligned.

I don't think you can use horizontal shift. Has to be centered.

Thanks you so much for that.
At first, your graph was very confusing, then I realized that the circles represent the "circular lens shift", and then everything clicked.
It perfectly illustrates why no horizontal lens shift is possible when maxing out the vertical lens shift.
It was hard for me to realize how this projector works, since my other projector's lens shift functions are rectangular, and not circular.

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post #453 of 8516 Old 10-24-2009, 09:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imbmom View Post

I am bit confussed now...

I had read in the ae3000 owners thread that the center of lens had to be within 10" max of the edge of screen for lens memory setup.

I really wish we could get some hard intel on this issue.

That is a good question if what you say is true.
Your scenario also opens up the possibility for horizontal lens shift for my scenario above.
Hopefully we CAN get a concrete answer as to exactly how far the lens shift will go while still meeting the protocol of the lens memory feature.

~Dave

...Theater Room Setup...
JVC DLA-RS40-U... Oppo BDP-105D... Toshiba HD-XA2... Uverse VIP-2250... Roku Streaming Stick... Emotiva XPA-3... Onkyo TX-SR805
JBL LC2 (x3) ... JBL L820 (x6) ... SVS PB10-ISD (x2) ... SVS 20-39-PCI
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post #454 of 8516 Old 10-24-2009, 09:33 PM
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I want to buy this projector and I would like to know if it could do a great job with 1080p movies in a 150" screen size. I have an elite screen matte white with 1.1 gain in a completely dark Home theater.

I´ll appreciate all the help and advices.

Regards.

RM

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post #455 of 8516 Old 10-24-2009, 09:51 PM
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In regard to the different aspect ratios and the ability for the 4000 to zoom between them would this scenario be possible? With an electric 16x9 screen, could you raise it up enough to change the aspect of the screen to say 2.35 and the projector raise and zoom the image to fit the new position of the screen? Sorta like masking but the image would have to shift up a little as well.
Just a thought....

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post #456 of 8516 Old 10-24-2009, 10:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmerlano View Post

I want to buy this projector and I would like to know if it could do a great job with 1080p movies in a 150" screen size. I have an elite screen matte white with 1.1 gain in a completely dark Home theater.

I´ll appreciate all the help and advices.

Regards.

RM

Yes I have used the PT-AE3000 on a 150" screen and its fine, the PT-AE4000 should even be better!

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post #457 of 8516 Old 10-24-2009, 11:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RapalloAV View Post

Yes I have used the PT-AE3000 on a 150" screen and its fine, the PT-AE4000 should even be better!

Thank you RapalloAV!! It´s great to know this!!

Somebody else want to share their experience with this big screen size??

Cheers!

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post #458 of 8516 Old 10-24-2009, 11:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark II View Post

In regard to the different aspect ratios and the ability for the 4000 to zoom between them would this scenario be possible? With an electric 16x9 screen, could you raise it up enough to change the aspect of the screen to say 2.35 and the projector raise and zoom the image to fit the new position of the screen? Sorta like masking but the image would have to shift up a little as well.
Just a thought....

Yes but thats CW and not zooming out to fill a scope screen. With your method there is no zoom so no increase in size of image for 2.35 films. All you would be doing in shifting the image up or down a bit to where you stop the screen.

I use two motorized screens, a 120" 16:9 screen and a 150" 2.35 screen.
This method allows a much larger 16:9 screen when watching 16:9 material but still a very impressive scope.

1. I use just the larger 16:9 screen for all 16:9 films only.
2. I use the 2.35 screen for both 16:9/2.35 mixed content.

When I play logos and trailers at the start of a movie thats scope 2.35, I just use the scope screen only for the 16:9 / 2.35 mixed material.

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post #459 of 8516 Old 10-24-2009, 11:40 PM
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I will use two motorized screens like this with the PT-AE4000 (see att).

1. Front Screen 120" 16x9 which rolls over the back of the roller.
2. Back Screen 150" 2.35 which rolls over the front of the roller.

Both screens are very close to each other but this doesn't matter now with the PT-AE4000, it will remember the focus of the screens no matter how far apart they are.
LL
LL
LL
LL
LL

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post #460 of 8516 Old 10-25-2009, 04:47 AM
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Wow RappalloAV that is such a cool method.

I dont have a home cinema yet but i was thinking of getting the PT AE4000 and buying a decent 16:9 screen probably in the region of £400. But also try to paint a cinemascope aspect ratio on the wall behind the 16:9 screen. Kind of like what you have done with your screens, but presumably more affordable.
What make of screens are you using and how much are they.
How much space have you left in-between your screens?
Apologies if you have already given this information.

Also can anyone comment on the black levels of this years £2000/$3000 projectors. Are we at a point where the black level of this price range are nearing the old JVC RS1 without using their dynamic irises.
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post #461 of 8516 Old 10-25-2009, 07:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smarty-pants View Post

That is a good question if what you say is true.
Your scenario also opens up the possibility for horizontal lens shift for my scenario above.
Hopefully we CAN get a concrete answer as to exactly how far the lens shift will go while still meeting the protocol of the lens memory feature.

I am NOT yet an owner of either the AE3000 or the AE4000. However, I have been reading the AE-3000 for about a year and the two AE4000 threads since the AE4000 announcement. (I do intend on purchasing an AE4000 in the next few months and am currently doing the design work to modify my HT to accommodate it.)

From my reading, it appears that the AE3000 does not have a problem doing the anamorphic zoom from 16:9 to 2.35 if the lens is within the confines of the screen. If you get outside of this area, you are looking for a problem in getting it to work properly. Unfortunately, the designers of the AE3000 are confined by the laws of physics and these laws do limit what is achievable. I also suspect that the AE4000 optical path is virtually identical to the AE3000 so it will have the same limitation as its earlier brethren.

I also recognize that many would like to use the AE4000 outside of the window that the AE3000 users found would work. There may well be combinations of screen size, projector distance and user acceptance (of satisfactory results) that will allow the projector to be placed a FEW inches outside of that general recommendation. But that is pushing the limits of the envelope and what may work in one case may not work in the next one. Do you really want to purchase a $2000 projector and find that it won't work in a situation where the envelope breaks? I am sure that the readers of the owners thread would like to read of your failure!

However, I propose that you consider redesigning your theater to meet the conditions that the AE3000 owners found would work. Look at ways and positions to mount the projector to place in the proper location. Consider moving your screen. Evaluate furniture placement so that you can't walk into the projector. Consider tilting both screen and projector so that your setup is within usage limitation. (Remember that the "area" of the screen that the projector must be inside is perpendicular to the surface of the screen. There were a few AE3000 owners who did tilt their screen to accommodate the requirements.)

I hope that everyone who has the position problem has already evaluated the distance-to-screen limitation that the zooming feature imposes. You can find the formulas for calculating this limitation in the AE4000 manual which is available online.

It is my opinion that using the AE4000 (or any projector setup) for a CIH setup will require that the room be tailored to fit the projector and its limitations. You will probably never be able to buy a system at BB or Walmart as a impulse item, and cart it home, unpack, setup it in any room in your home and have it work properly. That is my opinion......
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post #462 of 8516 Old 10-25-2009, 07:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frank1940 View Post

However, I propose that you consider redesigning your theater to meet the conditions that the AE3000 owners found would work. Look at ways and positions to mount the projector to place in the proper location. Consider moving your screen. Evaluate furniture placement so that you can't walk into the projector. Consider tilting both screen and projector so that your setup is within usage limitation. (Remember that the "area" of the screen that the projector must be inside is perpendicular to the surface of the screen. There were a few AE3000 owners who did tilt their screen to accommodate the requirements.)

This is good advice no matter what screen AR you're considering. I have a fixed DaLite High Power 16x9 screen that required me to reposition my projector. It allowed me to go with a 110" screen for my Sharp 20k. A low gain Stewart Firehawk screen was too dim. I have a friend who had to rearrange furniture and his existing audio gear (huge amounts of it in that space) to accommodate a projector. With a little imagination and effort, some things you never thought possible become do-able.

Much as I like the idea of the automatic zoom for 2.40:1, it's very unlikely I'll be able to use it in my space. My problem is that I don't have enough width for a scope screen, unless I go much smaller for 16x9. Fortunately, the dark walls, ceiling and floor make the scope letterbox bars more tolerable.

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post #463 of 8516 Old 10-25-2009, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by navnut View Post

Wow RappalloAV that is such a cool method.

I dont have a home cinema yet but i was thinking of getting the PT AE4000 and buying a decent 16:9 screen probably in the region of £400. But also try to paint a cinemascope aspect ratio on the wall behind the 16:9 screen. Kind of like what you have done with your screens, but presumably more affordable.
What make of screens are you using and how much are they.
How much space have you left in-between your screens?
Apologies if you have already given this information.

Also can anyone comment on the black levels of this years £2000/$3000 projectors. Are we at a point where the black level of this price range are nearing the old JVC RS1 without using their dynamic irises.

Have you looked at the DIY Screen Section which is a sub-section of the Screen Thread? There are a host of solutions for DIY screens which could be employed to fit your needs, budget, and tastes.

A second thing to remember is that the AE4000 when projecting a 16:9 picture on a 2.35:1 screen, the 'outside' edges of the wider screen will receive only the ambient light and the reflected light. The projector itself will throw no light on them Thus, these edges may be very close to black with the proper room configurations. However, any 4:3 material will have illuminated 'sidebars that will probably be visible during dark screens.

I can easily see where the double screen concept will work well when the required projector position prevents a single screen solution. That is to say, the two screens are positioned so that they meet the requirements, or limitations, (depending on your viewpoint) of the projector.
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post #464 of 8516 Old 10-25-2009, 10:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RapalloAV View Post

I will use two motorized screens like this with the PT-AE4000 (see att).

1. Front Screen 120" 16x9 which rolls over the back of the roller.
2. Back Screen 150" 2.35 which rolls over the front of the roller.

Both screens are very close to each other but this doesn't matter now with the PT-AE4000, it will remember the focus of the screens no matter how far apart they are.

Are you sure that's a 16x9 (1.78) and not a 1.85 AR screen? By my calculations a 16x9 120" screen has almost exactly the same height as a 2.35 150" screen. Seems like most of the advantage in your case of having two screens is in having them perfectly masked off. Obviously, in your pictures it can be seen that the height of the 2.35 screen is somewhat less than the other, but this would be the case if the other screen were a 1.85 120" diagonal. Cool setup regardless
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post #465 of 8516 Old 10-25-2009, 11:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IndianaGeorge View Post

Are you sure that's a 16x9 (1.78) and not a 1.85 AR screen? By my calculations a 16x9 120" screen has almost exactly the same height as a 2.35 150" screen. Seems like most of the advantage in your case of having two screens is in having them perfectly masked off. Obviously, in your pictures it can be seen that the height of the 2.35 screen is somewhat less than the other, but this would be the case if the other screen were a 1.85 120" diagonal. Cool setup regardless

The two measurements I gave are not exactly the true measurement, but very close within an inch. For this purpose of explaining the system it was easier to keep it simple.

Using two screens can help people HEAPS who have concerns over the zoom envelope area. My projector is mounted a fair way above the top of my screens as the ceiling is very high for a modern property. The top of the16x9 screen sits a bit higher than the top of the scope screen, this is the fix for the zoom envelope in my setup.

The same thing could be done with a fixed scope screen and say a motorized drop down 16x9 screen in front. There are more ways than one to skin a cat.

Murray Thompson

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post #466 of 8516 Old 10-25-2009, 11:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by navnut View Post

Wow RappalloAV that is such a cool method.

I dont have a home cinema yet but i was thinking of getting the PT AE4000 and buying a decent 16:9 screen probably in the region of £400. But also try to paint a cinemascope aspect ratio on the wall behind the 16:9 screen. Kind of like what you have done with your screens, but presumably more affordable.
What make of screens are you using and how much are they.
How much space have you left in-between your screens?
Apologies if you have already given this information.

Also can anyone comment on the black levels of this years £2000/$3000 projectors. Are we at a point where the black level of this price range are nearing the old JVC RS1 without using their dynamic irises.

Both my screens were made for me, both the 16x9 and 2.35 with a much larger than normal roller. Also the 2.35 screens roller is made of steel so its a heavy beast. They were expensive but the same could be done in other ways for less money.

My two screens are approx 3/4 inch apart, but they could be anything if you use the PT-AE3000 or 4000.

Again the same thing can be done with a fixed scope screen on the wall and a drop down 16x9 in front at whatever size you want, that way both ratios are perfectly masked.

Murray Thompson

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post #467 of 8516 Old 10-25-2009, 06:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PLB View Post

Most projectors have had a price half life of about nine months. That means that nine months after introduction they are selling at half their original price.

However that was not true of the Panny AE3000. It held its intial price while its competitors dropped their prices. Panasonic now introduces the AE4000 at a much lower price and again it seems to be the model to which all others under $5k will be compared.

I expect that Mitsubishi, Epson, Optoma and Benq will drop their prices rapidly over the next few months while the industry leading Panny model will continue to sell at list - about $2k.


This "price half-life" equation seems like a total SWAG, with more WAG than S.

Maybe over 18 months, and in a certain price bracket...
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post #468 of 8516 Old 10-25-2009, 08:25 PM
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End of October has approached. Anyone have any info on when these will ship? I just ordered mine on projector people yesterday.
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post #469 of 8516 Old 10-26-2009, 09:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Agni View Post

End of October has approached. Anyone have any info on when these will ship? I just ordered mine on projector people yesterday.

Me too, can't wait. No idea when it's suppose to ship. I probably won't follow up until I start hearing about people receiving them on here.
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post #470 of 8516 Old 10-26-2009, 09:28 AM
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Spoke to PP this morning; they have approximately 250 people in line waiting for the projector.

They said that Last week Panasonic said it was ready to ship and it only takes 2 days to reach PP from Japan.

They have there fingers crossed they will be at PP's warehouse this week.
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post #471 of 8516 Old 10-26-2009, 10:20 AM
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It seems everyone is ordering from the same few places.....good reputable dealers, but I am betting there will be plenty available right away at other etailers for those who didn't preorder.
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post #472 of 8516 Old 10-26-2009, 10:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agni View Post

End of October has approached. Anyone have any info on when these will ship? I just ordered mine on projector people yesterday.

Sold my AE700 three weeks ago and going out of my mind waiting. Theater is spick and span though in anticipation. Anyone talk to VA today about timing? Ah, back to daydreaming about what movie to premiere on the new projector.
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post #473 of 8516 Old 10-26-2009, 11:28 AM
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I have the ae2000 and just preordered the ae4000. Is it worth the upgrade or am I wasting my money?
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post #474 of 8516 Old 10-26-2009, 12:35 PM
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In Canada it is supposed to be out in a couple of weeks.
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post #475 of 8516 Old 10-26-2009, 01:14 PM
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In Canada it is supposed to be out in a couple of weeks.

double the price, and double the wait......ouch
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post #476 of 8516 Old 10-26-2009, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr2Spyder View Post

I have the ae2000 and just preordered the ae4000. Is it worth the upgrade or am I wasting my money?

Should be a huge upgrade as I went from a ae2000 to an ae3000u and it was a significant upgrade. Everything from colors, depth, pop, clarity, were better and the frame interpolation modes on some movies was stunning 3d like.
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post #477 of 8516 Old 10-26-2009, 01:59 PM
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i also went from a 2000 to a 3000 it waS a huge improvement i dont think the 4000 will be as big an improvement from the review i read I think i will skip the upgrade this time and wait for the 5000.

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post #478 of 8516 Old 10-26-2009, 03:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AugDog View Post

Sold my AE700 three weeks ago and going out of my mind waiting. Theater is spick and span though in anticipation. Anyone talk to VA today about timing? Ah, back to daydreaming about what movie to premiere on the new projector.

I talked to Visual Apex late this afternoon, they are awaiting the tracking information from Panasonic. Once the status changes it will be updated on the website and all preorders will be notified. Let the waiting continue...it will be any day now
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post #479 of 8516 Old 10-26-2009, 03:41 PM
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Here's my personal summary for me this vs the 8500UB:

Panny: more options/features, $500 less.
Epson: better warranty, brighter dynamic mode (1800 vs 1362).

I don't think I use the pj enough to exit Panny's warranty early.
Save $500, or 32% more living room lumens? Decisions!!!
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post #480 of 8516 Old 10-26-2009, 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by xorbe View Post

Here's my personal summary for me this vs the 8500UB:

Panny: more options/features, $500 less.
Epson: better warranty, brighter dynamic mode (1800 vs 1362).

I don't think I use the pj enough to exit Panny's warranty early.
Save $500, or 32% more living room lumens? Decisions!!!

I have a dedicated room, thought my AE700 was great, and I really like smoothscreen as well, so no brainer for me. I was going to buy a 3000 when the 4000 came out to save some bucks, but the price point on the 4000 changed that. We are lucky to have such decisions to make.
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