Panasonic PT-AE4000 MSRP $1999 - Page 160 - AVS Forum
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post #4771 of 8531 Old 04-08-2010, 08:43 AM
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So after about an hour of trolling the forums I think Ive finally grasped most of the major concepts behind projectors and their aspect ratios.

Right now the PT-AE4ku is at the top of my list

The question is, how does the Pannys zoomed 2.35:1 image compare to a projector with vertical stretch and an external lens?

Does anyone have experience with a side by side comparison or something close?

On a scale of 1-10...10 being the nicest 2.35:1 display you've ever seen where does the PT-AE4000 come in? If possible list equipment you are comparing too.

Thanks!

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post #4772 of 8531 Old 04-08-2010, 11:41 AM
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Hi, premiertrussman:

Here is a thread comparing (or arguing about) zooming versus A-Lens in general, in case you haven't seen it: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1212996&page=3. Not an easy subject.

Never seen in person side by side comparison of this projector with other competitor models. Have you read the projectorreviews.com comparisions?
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post #4773 of 8531 Old 04-08-2010, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by jjmbxkb View Post

Hi, premiertrussman:

Here is a thread comparing (or aruging over) zooming versus A-Lens in general, in case you haven't seen it: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1212996&page=3. Not an easy subject.

Never seen in person side by side comparison of this projector with other competitor models. Have you read the projectorreviews.com comparisions?

cool thanks!

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post #4774 of 8531 Old 04-08-2010, 09:53 PM
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Would anyone be able to recommend whether or not this projector would work well in a room that measures 11'5" x 11'5"? Would I be able to get a 90" (diag) screen or would I want to go smaller?
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post #4775 of 8531 Old 04-09-2010, 12:08 AM
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Would anyone be able to recommend whether or not this projector would work well in a room that measures 11'5" x 11'5"? Would I be able to get a 90" (diag) screen or would I want to go smaller?

http://www.projectorcentral.com/proj...ulator-pro.cfm

The unorthodoxed one viewing 86 inches in a 12x10 bedroom...
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post #4776 of 8531 Old 04-09-2010, 03:16 AM
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Originally Posted by waylonrobert View Post

Would anyone be able to recommend whether or not this projector would work well in a room that measures 11'5" x 11'5"? Would I be able to get a 90" (diag) screen or would I want to go smaller?

bad acoustics bad acoustics bad acoustics!!!!!!!
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post #4777 of 8531 Old 04-09-2010, 06:37 AM
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Originally Posted by waylonrobert View Post

Would anyone be able to recommend whether or not this projector would work well in a room that measures 11'5" x 11'5"? Would I be able to get a 90" (diag) screen or would I want to go smaller?

I have a 92" screen viewed at a distance of approximately 10'. In your case, you might have to settle for a smaller screen.
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post #4778 of 8531 Old 04-09-2010, 07:52 AM
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bad acoustics bad acoustics bad acoustics!!!!!!!

I am using a 92" diag. in a 9' wide room and a viewing distance 9 1/2'.

Steve
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post #4779 of 8531 Old 04-09-2010, 07:56 AM
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So what movies do you guys notice the FI in the most? I saw a demo of an Epson (6500 I think?) using the second Transformers movies. When the salesman turned on the FI to max on the Epson, I thought it was a "wow" moment.

I just got my 4k, and haven't had a lot of time to play with it, but I put in UP (I thought CG movies were really good for FI?), and could barely notice a difference on the different FI settings.

What do you recommend for viewing the impact that FI has, or is the 4k's FI tamed down from what I saw on the Epson?
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post #4780 of 8531 Old 04-09-2010, 08:07 AM
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Quote:

I used it but I didn't quite understand it. Is throwing distance the distance between the projector and the screen (and I imagine I should include the measurements of the projector itself and room for cabling)? I'm also looking for people who have a similar room to see if it's worth it or not.
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post #4781 of 8531 Old 04-09-2010, 08:07 AM
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Originally Posted by 501transpo View Post

I am using a 92" diag. in a 9' wide room and a viewing distance 9 1/2'.

Steve

How does this work for you? Does it feel like you're too close to the screen? How about audio?
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post #4782 of 8531 Old 04-09-2010, 09:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waylonrobert View Post

I used it but I didn't quite understand it. Is throwing distance the distance between the projector and the screen (and I imagine I should include the measurements of the projector itself and room for cabling)? I'm also looking for people who have a similar room to see if it's worth it or not.

The distance for all projector calculators is from the front of of the lens to the screen. You have to compute the space required for everything between the front of the lens and the back wall. For the AE4000, you also have to allow for clearance for cooling air intake. (See the manuals. Link to the manuals are in the first post!) By the way, don't p[lace the projector right at the limit. Give yourself a few inches to play with when making the final zoom and focus adjustments.

Regarding room size. You really have to sit and look at the space, the furniture you propose to use, and your personal viewing preferences. (Do you like to sit near the front of a theater or in the last row?) Do you want seating for two to four people or fifteen? That is really the only thing that your room size will limit you on primarily because of viewing angles. Make sketches for the room with the furniture you would like to use. The AE4000 is a 1080p projector and you can sit as near as twice the screen height with 1080 material. The beauty of this formula is that it is true for both 16:9 and 2.35:1 screens. By the way, I have been reading the theater threads on the site for over six years and I don't recall a single post where someone has said that their screen was too big!!!!

Square rooms are not "ideal" from an acoustical standpoint but those issues can be dealt with. I would NOT let this stop me from putting a theater into a room if this was the only space that I had. Most of the acoustical treatments can be done after the room is finished as you install them on the walls.
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post #4783 of 8531 Old 04-09-2010, 10:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frank1940 View Post

The distance for all projector calculators is from the front of of the lens to the screen. You have to compute the space required for everything between the front of the lens and the back wall. For the AE4000, you also have to allow for clearance for cooling air intake. (See the manuals. Link to the manuals are in the first post!) By the way, don't p[lace the projector right at the limit. Give yourself a few inches to play with when making the final zoom and focus adjustments.

Regarding room size. You really have to sit and look at the space, the furniture you propose to use, and your personal viewing preferences. (Do you like to sit near the front of a theater or in the last row?) Do you want seating for two to four people or fifteen? That is really the only thing that your room size will limit you on primarily because of viewing angles. Make sketches for the room with the furniture you would like to use. The AE4000 is a 1080p projector and you can sit as near as twice the screen height with 1080 material. The beauty of this formula is that it is true for both 16:9 and 2.35:1 screens. By the way, I have been reading the theater threads on the site for over six years and I don't recall a single post where someone has said that their screen was too big!!!!

Square rooms are not "ideal" from an acoustical standpoint but those issues can be dealt with. I would NOT let this stop me from putting a theater into a room if this was the only space that I had. Most of the acoustical treatments can be done after the room is finished as you install them on the walls.

Thank you very much for this very useful information! I really appreciate it. Things are much clearer now insofar as determining throw distance and you've given me something to think about with the space I have.
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post #4784 of 8531 Old 04-09-2010, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by waylonrobert View Post

Thank you very much for this very useful information! I really appreciate it. Things are much clearer now insofar as determining throw distance and you've given me something to think about with the space I have.


And don't forget their is always the old mount the projector vertical on the back wall and shoot it at an angled mirror to gain trough distance
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post #4785 of 8531 Old 04-09-2010, 10:46 AM
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Almost a year and a half since I got this idea in my head that I wanted a dedicated theater. And I have now had my P4k for 3 days.

The wow out of the box with a 9 ft throw on a ****** brown wall was amazing.

My project will be a slow mover like many on these forums. But I can tell you, from the experience of a first time PJ owner. I am so FRIGGIN HAPPY. I ran to walmart and bought some cheap sheets to put an image on. 30$ later I have a 13'x5' screen. The image is absolutley amazing and Im losing countless lumens to my 200 thread count walmart sheet screen. I cant even grasp what its going to look like once I purchase some screen material and properly build it out.
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post #4786 of 8531 Old 04-09-2010, 10:48 AM
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And don't forget their is always the old mount the projector vertical on the back wall and shoot it at an angled mirror to gain trough distance

If ANYONE is giving this consideration, you had better do some careful research. For starters, you need a VERY high quality mirror....
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post #4787 of 8531 Old 04-09-2010, 10:51 AM
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Almost a year and a half since I got this idea in my head that I wanted a dedicated theater. And I have now had my P4k for 3 days.

The wow out of the box with a 9 ft throw on a ****** brown wall was amazing.

My project will be a slow mover like many on these forums. But I can tell you, from the experience of a first time PJ owner. I am so FRIGGIN HAPPY. I ran to walmart and bought some cheap sheets to put an image on. 30$ later I have a 13'x5' screen. The image is absolutley amazing and Im losing countless lumens to my 200 thread count walmart sheet screen. I cant even grasp what its going to look like once I purchase some screen material and properly build it out.

Be sure and check out your options in the DIY screens section on AVS forums. I have a Wilsonart DW screen and love it ... and it was easy to make.
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post #4788 of 8531 Old 04-09-2010, 10:59 AM
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Be sure and check out your options in the DIY screens section on AVS forums. I have a Wilsonart DW screen and love it ... and it was easy to make.

Thanks frank. Ive been reading em for too long .. I cant wait to start trying diff variations. I gotta admit tho, Im quite proud of my Walmart Special :



Ill try and post up a screen shot but Ive been having a heck of a time getting nice pics of the image.
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post #4789 of 8531 Old 04-09-2010, 11:27 AM
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Ill try and post up a screen shot but Ive been having a heck of a time getting nice pics of the image.

You need to turn the flash off and use a tripod. I believe the best ones also have the camera on the centerline of the screen. (An expensive camera doesn't hurt ) Hope this helps
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Best I could do without tripod God I love this thing





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Best I could do without tripod God I love this thing

For Walmart speicial, this is fantastic!
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post #4792 of 8531 Old 04-09-2010, 02:36 PM
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How does this work for you? Does it feel like you're too close to the screen? How about audio?

Works fine...the screen could be even slightly larger...Lots of compromises for the audio..using 5 ch B&W with 802s in the front driven by Bryston monoblocks. Could the room situation be better? Absolutely but my present situation is orders of magnitude better than not having the PJ and sound system. My advice: don't become "paralyzed" by getting out into the "weeds" after reading forums. Work with what you have and enjoy it.

Steve
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post #4793 of 8531 Old 04-09-2010, 08:07 PM
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Originally Posted by frank1940 View Post

The distance for all projector calculators is from the front of of the lens to the screen. You have to compute the space required for everything between the front of the lens and the back wall. For the AE4000, you also have to allow for clearance for cooling air intake. (See the manuals. Link to the manuals are in the first post!) By the way, don't p[lace the projector right at the limit. Give yourself a few inches to play with when making the final zoom and focus adjustments.

Regarding room size. You really have to sit and look at the space, the furniture you propose to use, and your personal viewing preferences. (Do you like to sit near the front of a theater or in the last row?) Do you want seating for two to four people or fifteen? That is really the only thing that your room size will limit you on primarily because of viewing angles. Make sketches for the room with the furniture you would like to use. The AE4000 is a 1080p projector and you can sit as near as twice the screen height with 1080 material. The beauty of this formula is that it is true for both 16:9 and 2.35:1 screens. By the way, I have been reading the theater threads on the site for over six years and I don't recall a single post where someone has said that their screen was too big!!!!

Square rooms are not "ideal" from an acoustical standpoint but those issues can be dealt with. I would NOT let this stop me from putting a theater into a room if this was the only space that I had. Most of the acoustical treatments can be done after the room is finished as you install them on the walls.

i feel like an odd ball, but im happy. i sit 5 feet away usually, viewing 86 inches


The unorthodoxed one viewing 86 inches in a 12x10 bedroom...
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post #4794 of 8531 Old 04-10-2010, 06:35 AM
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i feel like an odd ball, but im happy. i sit 5 feet away usually, viewing 86 inches


I don't think you are an "odd ball". With the AE4000 lack of screen door effect and any HD material, you have a totally immersed experience at 5 feet. However, it is probably not for everyone as motion sickness can become an issue for anyone who is the least bit prone to the problem. Back at twice the screen height, most viewers can see something besides the picture which prevents many people from experiencing any motion effects.

Your viewing setup simply shows that the minimum viewing distance is NOT determined by any technical limitations of the AE4000. I find it amazing that people still think that the viewing distances recommended for NTSC black and white TV's using vacuum tubes and CRT's are still cardinal rules.
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post #4795 of 8531 Old 04-10-2010, 04:40 PM
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ok can anyone validate my math here?

I'm pretty sure im going with the panasonic pt-ae4000 projector and going to use the zoom and vertical shift with the lens memory function for 2.35:1 material...which means ill need a 2.35:1 screen with some masking. If i understand how this works correctly, the projector will still be projecting the black bars at top and bottom, but they are just "zoomed" out of the screen area.

So what im tryin to figure out is how much masking/frame material ill need top and bottom to prevent the black bars from reflecting off the wall. I've got kind of a tricky screen placement so just covering the whole wall in velvet wont work .


Now...if im looking at a 120" 2.35:1 screen measured diagonaly im looking at a viewing area of 110.4"W X 47"H.

So the native 16:9 img at 47"H will be 83.6" wide....so a 2.35:1 image unzoomed would be 35.57" tall? leaving 11.43 total inches of black bar or 5.72 top and bottom...

so when the image is zoomed to fill the screen its 24.3% larger, making the black bars 7.1" each? Im just trying to plan ahead for screen build and masking etc... Let me know if im way off base with how to figure the size of the black bars top and bottom.


A thought just occured, how well will flat black paint hide those projected bars?

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post #4796 of 8531 Old 04-10-2010, 06:46 PM
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Originally Posted by premiertrussman View Post

ok can anyone validate my math here?

I'm pretty sure im going with the panasonic pt-ae4000 projector and going to use the zoom and vertical shift with the lens memory function for 2.35:1 material...which means ill need a 2.35:1 screen with some masking. If i understand how this works correctly, the projector will still be projecting the black bars at top and bottom, but they are just "zoomed" out of the screen area.

So what im tryin to figure out is how much masking/frame material ill need top and bottom to prevent the black bars from reflecting off the wall. I've got kind of a tricky screen placement so just covering the whole wall in velvet wont work .


Now...if im looking at a 120" 2.35:1 screen measured diagonaly im looking at a viewing area of 110.4"W X 47"H.

So the native 16:9 img at 47"H will be 83.6" wide....so a 2.35:1 image unzoomed would be 35.57" tall? leaving 11.43 total inches of black bar or 5.72 top and bottom...

so when the image is zoomed to fill the screen its 24.3% larger, making the black bars 7.1" each? Im just trying to plan ahead for screen build and masking etc... Let me know if im way off base with how to figure the size of the black bars top and bottom.


A thought just occured, how well will flat black paint hide those projected bars?

You aren't far off the mark. I get about 7.5 inches. Your PJ is still projecting a 16:9 image. If you zoom to fill your 110 inch cinemascope screen in width the 16:9(1.78:1) image area is 110in x 61.8in (110/1.78=61.8) Your 2.35:1 image area is 110inx47in. Therefore the black bars are 61.8-47=14.8in divided by two = 7.4inches.
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post #4797 of 8531 Old 04-10-2010, 07:28 PM
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....... If i understand how this works correctly, the projector will still be projecting the black bars at top and bottom, but they are just "zoomed" out of the screen area.

....... So what im tryin to figure out is how much masking/frame material ill need top and bottom to prevent the black bars from reflecting off the wall. I've got kind of a tricky screen placement so just covering the whole wall in velvet wont work .


A thought just occured, how well will flat black paint hide those projected bars?

A dark wall behind the screen is a good idea because, if your projector is mounted above or below the center of the screen, the 2.35 picture has to be shifted up or down to actually position it properly on the screen. This is a convoluted way of saying the zoomed 16:9 'frame' is NOT centered on the screen and the 'spillage' is not symmetrical vertically. Thus more will be at either the top or bottom. If your wall is dark colored, you will not see any of the spillage if it extends beyond your mask.

I used a wide mask as you are thinking about and I am not sorry that I did that. (I used an expensive black velvet to wrap the frame and on that you can't even see a white 16:9 menu when zoomed out!) But I did put a black curtain below the screen where the extra spillage goes. I can't see the black bar unless I put something white down there to actually look for it.
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post #4798 of 8531 Old 04-10-2010, 07:30 PM
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I find it amazing that people still think that the viewing distances recommended for NTSC black and white TV's using vacuum tubes and CRT's are still cardinal rules.
*******
Ah!!! remember it well ..1952 and my mother telling me that I would "ruin" my eyes lying on the floor so close to the TV.

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post #4799 of 8531 Old 04-11-2010, 08:52 PM
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funk420 those shots look great! I like the walmart special.

My setup is coming along. Took a few days off work and painted the living room. Medium gray for the side walls and dark grey accent wall where my screen will go. Can't believe I got my wife to agree on gray, but she agrees it's looking slick now.

So after a few setbacks - 1st I hit a pipe in the ceiling when mounting manual screen . Then I had convergence (?) issue and sent it back. After that a problem with the projector mount - only my dumb luck would it be too short AND too long. Other hiccups along the way but now I'm feeling the rhythm.

Tomorrow night cross my fingers and bolt the PJ up to the new mount. Hopefully throw up some scope movies on the wall to see if the screen size will work. Whew!


The above post is 100% medically accurate


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post #4800 of 8531 Old 04-11-2010, 09:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MistaChy View Post

i feel like an odd ball, but im happy. i sit 5 feet away usually, viewing 86 inches


Wowzers!!! 5 feet and 86 inches? I'm still a bit scared that 97.5" at 11.5' is going to be too big! You crazy person, you!
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