Panasonic PT-AE4000 MSRP $1999 - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 8516 Old 10-09-2009, 08:43 AM
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Originally Posted by rhitch View Post

Hi have a panny projector I bought 3 years ago. They have not supported US projectors in the past. I would check with them before purchasing. I ended up buying from a dealer in Canada, had a problem and was glad I purchased here. Got a good deal though, so if the price was low enough I would buy from the U.S.
What is the Canadian MSRP on this? I just looked on the Canadian Panny site and it is not listed.

I dont think we know the Canadian MSRP but I think its safe to say it will be outrageously high!
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post #92 of 8516 Old 10-09-2009, 08:46 AM
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Originally Posted by m0tion View Post

I'm using the 950 lumens PJC quoted in their review in "normal" mode and a 100" 1.0 gain screen and I calculated 32.2 Foot-Lamberts. Is that correct? That seems extremely bright.

Not to rain on your parade but, just to be realistic...knock off some for however much zoom you'll use (up to 40%-ish) plus I always knock an additional 10-20% off as that's how much the lamp will dim in the first month you watch it (watching it constantly as you probably will be)...but don't put too much stock in the numbers, judge with your own eyes (or get a slightly higher gain screen to compensate).

I wish manufacturers would run these things on high for a 100 hours at the factory, then they would be stable for calibration the day they hit your house and premature problems with the unit and bulb could be identified...guess you probably have to spend a whole lot more to get a unit with this kind of QC process.
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post #93 of 8516 Old 10-09-2009, 08:47 AM
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Originally Posted by benareeno View Post

Jason,

are you serious? Did you ever check out the 3000 in person? We both come from the land of the crt...and I think the 3000 was an amazing projector...what did you not like about it?

If it isn't DLP and/or a 2 year old projector that 'used' to list for $15,000 but now sells for $3,000, he isn't going to be impressed. I think most of us can safely ignore his criticism of LCD projectors and get what makes us happy. In his defense, he even said that (in slightly different words).
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post #94 of 8516 Old 10-09-2009, 09:46 AM
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So according to early reports, how would the new 4000 compare to the JVC HD350 or the Sony VW 60? I am fairly new to this and am looking at getting a new projector. I have been considering the JVC and the Sony and would appreciate anyones opinion on how they all compare... thanks in advance for the advice... I am hoping to buy a new projector for the family for Christmas.
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post #95 of 8516 Old 10-09-2009, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by mintchris View Post

Agreed. I am ordering from the states!

Same here. In Norway you can pre-order it for NOK 24.599,- and that equals to USD $4353.

The AE3000 sells for USD $3716
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post #96 of 8516 Old 10-09-2009, 11:10 AM
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Well i pulled the trigger and went with a sure thing at a good price. I ordered the AE3000 at $1699 and now i wont have to worry about any new bugs that need to be worked out.
I am not a video expert and probably wont see the big difference between the two models. I almost bought the AE3000 last week at $2299. So i feel like i got a great deal, am happy!


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post #97 of 8516 Old 10-09-2009, 12:05 PM
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Those of you that are taking things to a personal level of criticism need to relax, there's absolutely no need for that here.

My comments mentioned the Panasonic digitals and no other, there are many 'non' dlp digitals that impress me (calibration accuracy aside). I guess I am just somebody that does not care for their 'smooth screen' tech and yes I am not a fan of most LCD's (coming from CRT this is fairly common as DLP, LCOS, D-ILA are closer to the look of CRT). I find several of the JVC models to be impressive as well as a couple of the Sony & Epson's so I am not only 'wowed' by DLP. As I stated, for features it is near impossible to compete with the Panasonics, they are truly in a class all their own at this price range. I am eager to see the AE4000 and truly hope it sets a new level of price/performance so that we all benefit .

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post #98 of 8516 Old 10-09-2009, 12:50 PM
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I've had a Panasonic projector for almost 5 years now, and I love the Smooth Screen. You read all over this forum about people trading off pixel visibility against seating distance or using expensive anamorphic lenses to minimize pixel visibility for 2.35 CIH - well with Panasonics the SDE is a total non isuue at any viewing distance, even when zooming up for 2.35 CIH. And don't believe the Panasonics bashers who claim that SST softens the picture - that is simply not true (as noted by Projector Central) - my picture is as sharp as a tack.
I won't even consider a projector that has ANY pixel visibilty so my next projector will definately be the AE4000.
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post #99 of 8516 Old 10-09-2009, 01:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m0tion View Post

I'm using the 950 lumens PJC quoted in their review in "normal" mode and a 100" 1.0 gain screen and I calculated 32.2 Foot-Lamberts. Is that correct? That seems extremely bright.

PJC's numbers always seem inflated. That number is in the "Normal" (high power) lamp mode (with the Picture mode set to "Normal") may actually be closer to 900 Lumens (~30 ft-L for your screen) - it also depends on how far the AE4000 is from the screen. Typically Panasonics (like the AE3000) output can drop off by as much as 40% to almost 60% from the closest throw distance to the farthest. I would wait for Art's review (www.projectorreviews.com) before you jump to conclusions. You will also lose some brightness if you run in the low lamp (eco) mode too (although that seems to be less for the Panasonic PJs than for others - the AE3000 drop-off was 11%).

If you run in the Cinema1 picture mode, it can be a lot dimmer (by around 50%). Although the AE3000, and presumably the AE4000, output a very good quality picture in their Normal picture mode.

BTW, 30 ft-L is not too bright, if you run your PJ with some ambient light in the room. Plus, that will drop considerably if you use one of the Cinema modes. PJC makes their output claim at the closest mounting distance, if I recall correctly. I just checked PJCs calculator, and they claim 20ft-L with the AE4000 at 13' from a 100" screen in the low lamp mode (unfortunately no info on which picture mode though). The PJC review states 548 Lumens in Normal Lamp, Cinema1, modes (= 18.5 ft-L for your 100" screen at a 13' throw, using the standard ft-L equation).

pottscb has made some good points too, in response to your post.

- Claus {non-Santa model}
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post #100 of 8516 Old 10-09-2009, 02:17 PM
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Hey Claus,

I currently use the Epson Home Cinema 400. Am I correct in thinking that you owned that same pj at one time??

Seeing as how you seem to have the tech specs figured out, I'm curious if you would know how the Epson would compare to the 3000/4000 for lumen output.

I use the Epson at 12 feet from a 44 x 103.5 cinemascope screen with no lens, and would have to drop in a 3000/4000 right in the same spot.

Any input or help is greatly appreciated.

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post #101 of 8516 Old 10-09-2009, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by DaGamePimp View Post

Those of you that are taking things to a personal level of criticism need to relax, there's absolutely no need for that here.

You are right that the attack(s) sort of came out of left field, so to speak. I appologize for that. I recall going back and forth with you some months ago on a discussion, and you just wouldn't budge your point of view. There's nothing wrong with that, we are all entitled to our opinions.

I think more than anything, I just didn't want a newbie coming in here reading this and thinking that the AE4000 would have a crappy picture. You are well spoken and have a lot of knowledge, and thus you come across as a reliable source in these forums. However, your particular tastes are very picky and differ from the majority. I'd be willing to bet that a newbie couldn't tell the difference between an AE4000 or any other PJ in the sub $5k range, especially considering the room conditions they'll possibly watch it in and the fact that it might not even be calibrated. I'm going to buy my 4000 under those assumptions as well, even having read these forums for over a year and a half.

I've seen several PJ's demo'd, in various price catagories. I doubt any of them were properly calibrated. They all looked stunning under the right conditions (no ambient light) and they all looked a bit washed out under the wrong conditions. It's my firm belief that any of the modern 1080p PJ's is going to look fantastic in my home theater if I give it the best conditions that I can, and thus I'm shopping more on features than anything else. It doesn't hurt that the AE3000 (and presumably the 4000) is claimed to have a pretty nice picture relative to the other LCD's in it's price range. DLP is too loud for me (my PJ will be right above my seats) and doesn't have zoom memory, and DILA is too expensive and doesn't have zoom memory.

Not everyone is striving for that extra .01% performance, especially at the cost of useful features and considerable extra money.
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post #102 of 8516 Old 10-09-2009, 04:11 PM
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Maybe good things do come to those that wait.

I've been back and forth over a replacement for my aged BenQ PE-7700. With 2300 hours on the lamp not much life left. Makes no sense to buy a new lamp for old technology.

BenQ W5000 wouldn't fit. Epson 6500 early problems, probably solved by now, but near the end of it's retail cycle.

Along comes the BenQ W6000. Had just about decided on that one.

Now Panasonic comes with this surprise. They do seem to be changing the game. All the features at this price. Who would have dreamed this was possible just 4 years ago.

What looks really impressive is how much is available to adjust everything. With HCFR and one's choice of colorimeter and SW this might be a tweaker's delight. And done very cheaply.

With my setup I can mount this just 13' 3" from a 133" screen. That's perfect.

End result based upon PJC's report of 548 Lumens in Cinema 1: 16 Foot Lamberts. That is the SMPTE standard IIRC.

And thanks to Claus and other respected folks here on AVS my bias against LCD is quickly diminishing.

Can't wait for Art's take, and others. Soon I hope.

Sorry for rambling on.

Joe
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post #103 of 8516 Old 10-09-2009, 04:15 PM
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Varrius ,

I appreciate the apology, thank you.

Indeed we all have varying opinions and different sets of priorities, and indeed mine do generally come from an Image Quality above all else standard (never have I claimed otherwise). This does not however make my opinions any less valid than somebody else's who might be praising features (zoom memory, crazy amounts of lens shift, # of HDMI inputs, etc.), because to me those are usually IQ trade-offs (even though in many circumstances they might be required trade-offs). Now if the AE4000 truly delivers on IQ and has all the features of the AE3000 (plus) then it will certainly be THE price/performance leader in this area of the forum (and I will be just as thrilled as those that intend to purchase it).

Almost nobody here (including myself) can state anything other than speculation regarding the AE4000 so there is no reason to get bent out of shape on 'speculative' comments . I am just as hopeful as you are regarding the performance of the AE4000 as it pushes the industry forward and we all reap the benefits in the end .

Now let's not get the thread derailed with this silly bickering, I think we are on the same page this time (no hard feelings about last time either) .

Thanks again,
Jason

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post #104 of 8516 Old 10-09-2009, 04:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Varrius View Post


It's my firm belief that any of the modern 1080p PJ's is going to look fantastic in my home theater if I give it the best conditions that I can, and thus I'm shopping more on features than anything else.

It seems more and more people are making similar statement. I am inclined to agree that the difference is not as big as it used to be. I would imagine the difference in PQ, between the Panasonic and a good DLP or DLIA like the JVC RS20, would be no more than 5-10 % in a proper setting. I am a DLP guy and thinking of upgrading to the JVC RS20. I would very much like to try a Panasonic in my own room, and I would if there is a return policy with no restocking fee from any vendor and save a ton in the process.

I want to hear opinions from people who don't have a dog in the fight.
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post #105 of 8516 Old 10-09-2009, 04:40 PM
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Alex,

The difference is much closer than it used to be, no doubt about it and usually only picky sob's (like myself) can actually see the differences. For the record I am right there with you on saving some coin, if something impresses and it's more cost effective then why the heck not . If I just so happened to be blown away by the AE4000 I would certainly be inclined to buy it (regardless of the tech behind it). A major issue with LCD's has always been reliability/life span but I think they have greatly improved in those areas as well, have several friends with more recent LCD's (last couple years) and no issues worth mentioning from them.

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post #106 of 8516 Old 10-09-2009, 09:10 PM
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I have owned at least 20 different crt's...and 10 or so digitals of both dlp and lcd technology. It really bothers me when people defend their projector or projector technology...in general, I don't like lcd's as much either....until I saw the 3000 at a local boutique shop. In particular I love the film-like look of the smooth screen technology. This is very much in line with what a crt delivers.

Add to this the fact that lcd's are usually quieter...in fact, quite a bit quieter than dlp's. They also don't have a mechanical wheel which can sometimes be noisy in itself...another plus for lcd

I have a pretty keen eye for image quality too...and I think the 3000 has a heck of a lot going for it. And I suspect that a more accurate red color along with this new price is really a benefit to everyone!

In the end, it doesn't matter what people think of a projector that you like...because it's YOUR projector, and your opinion is the only thing that matters. Go and see it, and if you like it, buy it.

PS. I also think the extensive tweaking that can be done will satisfy the tweaker in me...which was what I loved about crt (may it rest in peace).
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post #107 of 8516 Old 10-09-2009, 10:55 PM
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Man i don't have a projector yet but i am so tempted to get one now. I would even go with the AE3000 if i could find it for a good price in Canada. I have the screen ready to go (got it from my theater when we replaced the screen for our first Digital 3D theater) Only if i was paid better and again had somewhere to get this at a reasonable price.

Supporting both HD-DVD and Blu-ray

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post #108 of 8516 Old 10-10-2009, 05:06 AM
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It seems that Panasonic is betting the store on this. Will lowering the price will sell more projectors? If they are correct this move could be really big. More and more people are building home theatrers and it seems that many want the biggest screen size that they can afford. This move could move projectors into a new position in the consumer market. We will have to wait and see how sales go and the reaction from other companies.
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post #109 of 8516 Old 10-10-2009, 05:15 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaGamePimp View Post

Those of you that are taking things to a personal level of criticism need to relax, there's absolutely no need for that here.

My comments mentioned the Panasonic digitals and no other, there are many 'non' dlp digitals that impress me (calibration accuracy aside). I guess I am just somebody that does not care for their 'smooth screen' tech and yes I am not a fan of most LCD's (coming from CRT this is fairly common as DLP, LCOS, D-ILA are closer to the look of CRT). I find several of the JVC models to be impressive as well as a couple of the Sony & Epson's so I am not only 'wowed' by DLP. As I stated, for features it is near impossible to compete with the Panasonics, they are truly in a class all their own at this price range. I am eager to see the AE4000 and truly hope it sets a new level of price/performance so that we all benefit .

Jason

Hope you did not take my post as personal pimp'I had wink and big grins.Was just having a little fun.I injoy your wisdom and have followed your advice.You have allways been a DLP guy it seems and I myself love DLP.I was so close to jumping on the benq 6000.But back to the ae4000.As you say lets hope it sets a new benchmark on price /performance.This will only help drive down the price for all of us.Look forward to your opion
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post #110 of 8516 Old 10-10-2009, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by invadergir View Post

Man i don't have a projector yet but i am so tempted to get one now. I would even go with the AE3000 if i could find it for a good price in Canada. I have the screen ready to go (got it from my theater when we replaced the screen for our first Digital 3D theater) Only if i was paid better and again had somewhere to get this at a reasonable price.

maybe get a 720 pj for less $; WAY better than having no pj!

you can upgrade later.

10' from 84" screen.


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post #111 of 8516 Old 10-10-2009, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taffman View Post

I've had a Panasonic projector for almost 5 years now, and I love the Smooth Screen. You read all over this forum about people trading off pixel visibility against seating distance or using expensive anamorphic lenses to minimize pixel visibility for 2.35 CIH - well with Panasonics the SDE is a total non isuue at any viewing distance, even when zooming up for 2.35 CIH. And don't believe the Panasonics bashers who claim that SST softens the picture - that is simply not true (as noted by Projector Central) - my picture is as sharp as a tack.
I won't even consider a projector that has ANY pixel visibilty so my next projector will definately be the AE4000.

+1.

I have a Panasonic AE900 now and love it. I'm way over 3,000 hours on the original bulb and, to my eyes, the PQ still outperforms anything I've seen in a home theater boutique for thousand$ more. And I attribute that to zero screen-door effect.

The AE4000's feature set is the first cause for me to want something drastic to start happening to my AE900 so I'll be forced to upgrade.

The prospect of getting an even better picture while the Lens Memory w/Auto Detection automatically adjusts for Constant Height on a 2.35:1 screen when I switch from Casablanca on Turner Classic Movie Channel to Lord of the Rings on HBO HD, all for about the same as it cost to buy my first projector (AE700) 6-7 years ago is almost too sweet to ignore.
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post #112 of 8516 Old 10-10-2009, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by rwestley View Post

It seems that Panasonic is betting the store on this. Will lowering the price will sell more projectors? If they are correct this move could be really big. More and more people are building home theatrers and it seems that many want the biggest screen size that they can afford. This move could move projectors into a new position in the consumer market.

i for one would love to see that.

10' from 84" screen.


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post #113 of 8516 Old 10-10-2009, 01:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Smarty-pants View Post

Hey Claus,

I currently use the Epson Home Cinema 400. Am I correct in thinking that you owned that same pj at one time??

Seeing as how you seem to have the tech specs figured out, I'm curious if you would know how the Epson would compare to the 3000/4000 for lumen output.

I use the Epson at 12 feet from a 44 x 103.5 cinemascope screen with no lens, and would have to drop in a 3000/4000 right in the same spot.

Any input or help is greatly appreciated.

Mr. Pants (!):

...I've enjoyed your posts over the years and now have a chance to respond to one.

I, too, use an Epson Home Cinema 400; it is about 28 months old and we're on our second bulb. The first bulb went about 2000 hours before dimming enough that I thought we would benefit from a new one. We run on the living room setting and project onto a painted wall...and I cannot justify a professional calibration. I know I know...but we've either had a Sony large CRT in the room also (or, now, a THX Panasonic 54" plasma) that we can eyeball with the Epson projector...and quite literally, the Epson 400 (in combination with good surround sound, a Sony PS3 and an HTPC) has transformed the way we watch television, sports and movies.

Have you replaced the bulb in your 400?

I am not so happy with the new bulb; it is brighter...at first it seemed like the blue tint on one side of the screen (with pink tint on the other) was a bit worse with the new bulb (compared to the old one)...but I can sort of live with that 'problem'.

And indeed, either I got used to the blue/pink problem...or else after a few dozen hours (we're now at 300 hours)...the problem seems to have minimized.

Unfortunately, I now spot a new problem.

In the uppermost portion of the image...a little bit right of center...if I were to try to draw a cloud...a tannish-yellowish cloud...that perhaps takes up less than five percent of the entire projected image...well, if I project a solid white image (the very same kind of image that shows the blue-pink tinges)...this light tan-yellow 'cloud' is apparent.

This 'cloud' is only apparent with a white or light grey background.

Have you (or any other AVS member) seen anything like this with your 400?

I've looked around on the site and seen a few references to something like this but not too many.

Thanks...and I love AVS.
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post #114 of 8516 Old 10-10-2009, 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by vid53 View Post

Well i pulled the trigger and went with a sure thing at a good price. I ordered the AE3000 at $1699 and now i wont have to worry about any new bugs that need to be worked out.
I am not a video expert and probably wont see the big difference between the two models. I almost bought the AE3000 last week at $2299. So i feel like i got a great deal, am happy!

Vid53

Same here... my 3000 is on its way. But I confess... I missed the news on the AE4000 price, and assumed it would hit the street at closer to $3k. Still, I got a great deal on an awesome projector, so I won't lose any sleep over it. Ya gotta pull the trigger sometime.

Paul
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post #115 of 8516 Old 10-10-2009, 05:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by josephandrews222 View Post

In the uppermost portion of the image...a little bit right of center...if I were to try to draw a cloud...a tannish-yellowish cloud...that perhaps takes up less than five percent of the entire projected image...well, if I project a solid white image (the very same kind of image that shows the blue-pink tinges)...this light tan-yellow 'cloud' is apparent.

This 'cloud' is only apparent with a white or light grey background.

It's almost surely this common problem with polarizers on LCD projectors with organic panels. Here's the AVS Forum thread you want.
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post #116 of 8516 Old 10-10-2009, 06:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by josephandrews222 View Post

Mr. Pants (!):

...I've enjoyed your posts over the years and now have a chance to respond to one.

Thanks for the kind words man.
I wish I could help you with your problem, but I'm no guru when it comes to projectors.
I've seen several in action, but the 400 is the only one I've ever owned, and I haven't had any problems with it.
I've always run it Theater2 mode 99% of the time in a dark room.
A few games have been watched in Living mode.
Approaching 3000 hours on the bulb now, with hopefully a lot more to go.

Now I'm looking to replace it soon, with maybe something like the Panny 4000, or even a 3000 if I can get a killer deal on one.
I'll try to bleed some profit out of the 400, but if not maybe use it for an outside theater projector.

~Dave

...Theater Room Setup...
JVC DLA-RS40-U... Oppo BDP-105D... Toshiba HD-XA2... Uverse VIP-2250... Roku Streaming Stick... Emotiva XPA-3... Onkyo TX-SR805
JBL LC2 (x3) ... JBL L820 (x6) ... SVS PB10-ISD (x2) ... SVS 20-39-PCI
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post #117 of 8516 Old 10-11-2009, 07:17 AM
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I've had the Samsung SP-H710AE Projector with 700 ANSI and Contrast (Full On/Off) : 2800:1 for 3 1/2 years and I'm pulleding the trigger on the AE4000.
I think this will be a big upgrade in pitcher quality for my Home Theater

Life is Through the Son
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post #118 of 8516 Old 10-11-2009, 08:08 AM
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So how do you guys think the 4000 will do in ambient light conditions for watching sports, etc.
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post #119 of 8516 Old 10-11-2009, 08:15 AM
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I just finished reading the PC review of the AE4000.

From PC:

"The Panasonic PT-AE4000 sets a new benchmark for price/performance in the home theater industry. In both picture quality and features, it easily surpasses the AE3000. And at just $1,999 it will have an earthshaking effect on prices throughout the industry. No other projector is as fully-loaded with user friendly features as this one; other than the AE3000, no other competing model even comes close in features and functionality. But what it always comes down to is picture quality. And in this regard, the AE4000 surpasses not only the AE3000, but all other 1080p models that we have yet seen under $3,000. It is not the brightness unit on the market by any stretch. Several other inexpensive 1080p models have brighter Cinema modes. But if you are looking for extremely high image quality and are willing to give up a little lumen output to get it, the AE4000 produces a refined, elegant picture that is extremely difficult to beat.

Since the AE4000's picture quality not only surpasses the competitors in its price range, but rivals and in some cases exceeds that of "high-end" models selling for five times the price or more, it warrants a solid 5 stars for performance. Since it has more features than any other home theater projector ever built, 5 stars is not even enough to illustrate its distinction in this category. Similarly, its ease of use is unrivaled-perfect color calibration out of the box in Cinema 1 mode, smart menus that are easy to navigate, lens memory to accommodate 2.40 super widescreen without an anamophic lens-no other projector has all of these things, and most have none of them. All of this adds up to a remarkable value proposition: at a street of $1,999, we've simply never seen this much performance at this price."


I usually don't give PC review much weight review has caught my attention. Can't wait to see Art's and cine4home review. If all three have the same take of this PJ, and it gets glowing reviews from owners, then this will be a game changer for sure. I never considered LCD to have a good PQ like DLP and LCOS but I guess the gap is much narrower that I thought.

I want to hear opinions from people who don't have a dog in the fight.
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post #120 of 8516 Old 10-11-2009, 09:55 AM
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O boy!
I had almost got on the H20 vagon, than placed an order for 3800. I guess I would have to cancel it and wait for Pany.
When do they anticipate the first shipments? In the meantime I am projectorless - that sucks
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