Panasonic PT-AE4000 or Epson 8100 for ambient light AND dark room? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 17 Old 10-08-2009, 08:57 PM - Thread Starter
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I know neither of these is out yet, but based on thier previous models maybe I could get a good idea. Much of my watching will be both ambient light conditions (football, baseball, etc. during the day, especially in the spring, summer, and fall months), and then also at night where it will be pitch black for movies. Pretty much a 50/50 mix.

Oh, and my kids will likely play thier PS3 games on it as well. Wall space is limited so I can only go about 82-92" on the screen.

Forgot to add that ideally I would like to have the projector a couple of feet off to the right of the center of the screen, so lense shift also has to be thrown into the equation.

So any idea what might be my best bet?
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post #2 of 17 Old 10-09-2009, 01:54 AM
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When a significant portion of your watching will be in ambient light conditions always go for "bright" over "PQ". Mostly because the majority of differences in PQ can only be resolved under "batcave" conditions. Once ambient light is introduced most all PQ nuances will dissapear and brightness will be the overriding factor that will determine perceived PQ.
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post #3 of 17 Old 10-09-2009, 05:48 AM
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I am in almost the exact same boat. Living room with some windows and blackout drapes. 100" screen. I am torn between these two projectors. Honestly, from the projector central review though, the light output of the AE4000 doesn't seem that much less; at least in "normal" modes. 932 lumens from the 8100 in "Living room" vs. 950 lumens from the AE4000 in "Normal". The only thing I don't know is if the AE4000 can compete with the 8100's 1749 lumens in "Dynamic" mode. The Projector Central review didn't give a spec for the AE4000's brightest mode....
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post #4 of 17 Old 10-09-2009, 06:09 AM
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Some speculation... From the PJC review of the AE3000:

"Lumen Output. Not only is contrast outstanding, but the AE3000 has an excellent range of lumen output. Dynamic mode is the brightest, and measured 1273 lumens on our test unit. With factory defaults, the picture in Dynamic mode has a greenish cast to it. But if you bump red up about five notches and green down a couple, you end up with a very bright picture that is also quite pleasant to watch. It isn't perfectly color calibrated, but the evident greenish cast is substantially diminished, and most casual viewers will find the picture to be quite satisfying. It is a great operating mode for Super Bowl parties or other events where you need the extra brightness to combat ambient light. It is also an ideal operating mode for video gaming with room lights on. "

So, here's my guess. In dynamic mode the AE4000 probably puts out about the same amount of light as the AE3000 (1273 lumens), but it likely does not need the color adjusted as much because of the "red rich" lamp technology. That's not bad, all things considered, but still isn't the 1750 lumens you'd get from the 8100. I don't know how visible the difference would be though in the real world.
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post #5 of 17 Old 10-09-2009, 07:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KO Abear View Post

When a significant portion of your watching will be in ambient light conditions always go for "bright" over "PQ". Mostly because the majority of differences in PQ can only be resolved under "batcave" conditions. Once ambient light is introduced most all PQ nuances will dissapear and brightness will be the overriding factor that will determine perceived PQ.

Thanks for the input, makes sense. The only wild cards, are if because I will only need it for up to a 92" screen, is will the 4000 be bright enough. As well as the fact that I will need to use the lense shift.
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post #6 of 17 Old 10-09-2009, 08:40 AM
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Here's a little more speculation for you from Projectorreviews.com :

Epson Home Cinema 8100 vs. Panasonic PT-AE4000

Well, the PT-AE4000 was finally officially announced in the US, today. The real surpise was the price - $1999. That should shake things up. The key point here, is that the Panasonic is a step up projector so is it worth the difference in price. I haven't seen one yet, so I'm going from the public announcement, and some speculation going on.

The two are probably comparable in best mode brightness, and the Epson will probably be almost 50% brighter in brightest mode. The Panasonic will easily outperform the 8100 in black levels and slightly in shadow detail. Panasonic also brings its Lens Memory - an anamorphic lens emulation feature, very cool, let's you go with 2.35:1 screens.

Panasonic also provides creative frame interpolation. It's lens has motorized focus and zoom. The Epson's lens is manual. The Epson Home Cinema 8100 has the much better warranty. Overall picture quality should belong to the Panasonic by virtue of the better blacks and roughly comparable skin tones.

The Panasonic's direct competition is the Epson Home Cinema 8500UB, which WAS anticipated to be at $2999. The $1999 price on the Panasonic may cause them to rethink that.

If you are looking for a projector primarily for sports first and HDTV/TV, save the bucks and buy the Epson. If you've got the $400 - #500 extra, the Panny is going to be your overall better value proposition.
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post #7 of 17 Old 10-09-2009, 11:02 PM
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Same situation here. About 70% bright sun/ambient lights for sports, 30% dark movie/TV watching. I've got an ax100 (w/ dalite hi-power) and love the brightness so it would be hard to take a step down from that which the ae4000 would be. I'm leaning towards the epson 8100 at this point although if the 8500 drops to $2k, I may go for that.
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post #8 of 17 Old 10-10-2009, 05:50 AM
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goosecat:

Screenshots of the ax100 in the day time? What is the gain on the dalite?
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post #9 of 17 Old 10-22-2009, 04:44 PM
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what do you think could do a better job for a 150" screen size? I have an Elite Screen 1.1 gain, I don´t have any problem with the position of the Projector (Ceiling mount) and I can control totally the ligh (i can get a completely dark room). Of course, between these projectors (AE4000U and Epson 8100)



If you need more information, just ask for it.

thank you!!

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NewBie on AV Systems....
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post #10 of 17 Old 10-22-2009, 05:21 PM
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1362 Lumens - from PC, in his Shoot-out article.

"The 8100 is brighter than the AE4000 in its high brightness Dynamic mode which measured 1749 lumens compared to the AE4000's 1362. Not only was the 8100's Dynamic mode brighter, it was impressively well color balanced compared to just about any high brightness mode on competing models. For those wanting a bright picture for ambient light settings, this is a key competitive advantage. The other of course is that it is the least expensive of the six models in this shoot-out."

Michael Burton
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post #11 of 17 Old 11-12-2009, 01:17 PM
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Also, isn't the Epson's bulb supposed to have a max bulb life of 4000 hrs, where the Panasonic's is 2000? Please correct me if I'm wrong, but this is what really pushes me to the Epson. That's about one more year without having to pay the @$300.
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post #12 of 17 Old 11-12-2009, 01:27 PM
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If you can afford to spend 300.00 more get the epson 8500ub , its price is 2499.00 minus 200.00 rebate, net $2299.00 in the end it is cheaper because the bulbs are rated for 4000hours and the Epson bulbs are 100.00 cheaper
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post #13 of 17 Old 11-12-2009, 02:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robotronic2000 View Post

Also, isn't the Epson's bulb supposed to have a max bulb life of 4000 hrs, where the Panasonic's is 2000? Please correct me if I'm wrong, but this is what really pushes me to the Epson. That's about one more year without having to pay the @$300.

Robotronic.
In my opinion, all lamps would have to be specified by its average life.
Panasonic says 2000 hs in normal mode (usually 3000 hs in low power).
Epson does not say in which mode are reached the 4000 hs max: "Lamp life will vary depending upon mode selected, environmental conditions and usage. Lamp brightness decreases over time."
Max is the biggest value. Just 1 lamp that reach that and You got it. Also if at 2000 hs the Epson lamp is too dim (lamp brightness decreases...), there is no use for a 4000 hs life span.
I don't know if Panasonic is max o average. But surely there are old Pannys with 4000 hs or more.
My conclusion: pay little attention to this spec
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post #14 of 17 Old 11-12-2009, 05:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmerlano View Post

what do you think could do a better job for a 150" screen size? I have an Elite Screen 1.1 gain, I don´t have any problem with the position of the Projector

Neither. These projectors really aren't going to be able to drive any more than a 120" screen and I would say that is a very liberal estimate. If it was me, I wouldn't go above 100". Look into the BenQ6000 if you want to go up to 150". It's not too much more then the two projectors you're looking at and will get you a very nice picture as well.

For those comparing lamp life, I wouldn't rule out those numbers completely. From everything I've read on the epsons, the 4000 hour lamp life is very accurate for its normal power. You really do save a lot of money on lamps going with an epson, so don't forget to factor that into your money equation.
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post #15 of 17 Old 11-13-2009, 06:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackattack51 View Post

...For those comparing lamp life, I wouldn't rule out those numbers completely. From everything I've read on the epsons, the 4000 hour lamp life is very accurate for its normal power. You really do save a lot of money on lamps going with an epson, so don't forget to factor that into your money equation.

Could You post please where you read that?
From EPSON's PowerLite Pro Cinema 7500UB Projector page (they don't show the 8500 yet): Lamp Life(*): Up to 4000 hours
(*) Lamp life will vary depending upon mode selected, environmental conditions and usage. Lamp brightness decreases over time.
Why do they tell "depending upon mode selected" if it was measured in normal mode? Are there others modes that decrease lamp life?
Also, if Epson will cost $300 more (with rebate) than the Panasonic, with this difference, You could almost buy another lamp and have more life span.
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post #16 of 17 Old 11-13-2009, 02:47 PM
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From the reviews I read the Epson's "Max" lamp life in either mode is 4000 hrs. the other thing to consider is street price on the Epson lamp is $275 whereas the Panny is $400.

I'm leaning towards the 8100 myself. I'd like to be able to game with some ambient light. and it looks like the 8100 may be the better choice for this. Also there has been some testing that suggests the 8100 "may" may be faster (less frame delay) than the 4000 - even in game mode. (Conjecture based on 6100 testing.) This probably only matters to gamers and it is debatable rather the difference would be noticeable.
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post #17 of 17 Old 11-13-2009, 08:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tdog_2005 View Post

If you can afford to spend 300.00 more get the epson 8500ub , its price is 2499.00 minus 200.00 rebate, net $2299.00 in the end it is cheaper because the bulbs are rated for 4000hours and the Epson bulbs are 100.00 cheaper

Agreed, plus, you get the best of both...the brightest PJ and the best blacks...I'd save up the extra 300.
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