Acer H5360 HD3D (DLP 1280x720) Video Projector - Page 11 - AVS Forum
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post #301 of 1760 Old 12-08-2010, 08:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post

My setup which works great.

DVI > HDMI = PC to projector (video)
HDMI > HDMI = PC to receiver (sound)


thanks for the reply..do I need a dual link dvi-i >hdmi or just a regular dvi? Also will the hdmi out on the card to the hdmi in on the projector work? I'm thinking especially for getting the 3d driver loaded. I've tried this before with a hd66 and couldn't get the driver to load. thanks
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post #302 of 1760 Old 12-08-2010, 09:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post

One of the best things about these little 720p 3D DLPs is that because they cost so little they have next to no bells and whistles, so we don't have to spend endless hours obsessing over perfect greyscale and perfect colour! No CMS to contend with etc. The image in 3D is just gorgeous and the limited settings we do have suffice nicely. The guys with those expensive 3D projectors are now trying to figure out settings etc. to minimize the "ghosting" they're seeing - too funny. I suppose that if you can't see much on the screen at all it would definitely help eliminate ghosting since they've found that a dimmer image equals less ghosting. The good news is that you will acclimatize to a dimmer image for 3D! I guess you can rationalize anything. When you spent what I spent on the Acer there's nothing to rationalize - it is what it is, and it is amazing in 3D!

I've been down that road--trying to find the perfect settings to reduce crosstalk. You can make minor improvements, but in the end, it's just a waste of time. Some may buy different glasses thinking that the problem is with them. Eventually, the ones that really enjoy 3D instead of seeing it as a nice add-on gimmick will learn about DLP.
If you care about 3D, a crosstalk-free image is the absolute minimum requirement for serious viewing. To me, the crosstalk image corruption that you see in LCD/LCOS, plasma, or CRT based displays is worse than seeing the wrong shade of color, crushed blacks, gray blacks, judder, rainbow effect, posterization, or any other image anomaly we've encountered so far.
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post #303 of 1760 Old 12-08-2010, 09:46 AM
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Does watching 3D movies spoil your 2D movie experience?
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post #304 of 1760 Old 12-08-2010, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by threed123 View Post

I didn't get the statement: Odd part is once fullscreen 3d, both look 95% the same?

When does the acer look washed out--only when the screen is smaller than 720p--e.g. any window smaller than fullscreen?


To clarify, I'm referring to looking at the screen without glasses on when 3d mode is enabled. The acer very obviously changes modes once 3d is on. You notice the brightness go down a little and everything get a little white washed. When you put you glasses on, that goes away. I think what it is doing is upping the brightness so when the glasses are on it looks normal.

The difference is the optoma does not do that, but once glasses are on, both look very similar. I think the optoma just has a different image routine when in 3d mode than the acer. The end result though is very close. One thing to note, the image presets like 'movie', 'presentation' etc are unavailable on the acer while in 3d mode. They are still available in 3d on the optoma.
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post #305 of 1760 Old 12-08-2010, 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by tyee View Post

friken
I thought I read somewhere that the latest ATI driver 10.10 I think fixed any problems with 3D? I just got the 5770 but haven't connected everything up yet. Have you tried the latest drivers? I believe what I'm talking about is right here on AVS.

The newest driver is 10.11 and it does not fix the issues. I did try 10.10 with hotfix d as well. It was a little better but still did not enable quad buffering without some registry hacks. The nice thing about the 8.78 beta driver is that it enables quad buffering but you can then upgrade to newest 10.11 without losing the feature.
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post #306 of 1760 Old 12-08-2010, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by JOHNnDENVER View Post

I am told only DLP-Link will work with the 3D-XL, there is a guy over in 3D Tech that says it doesn't work. I dunno, he hasn't given anything to back up his claim, they bundle DLP-Link with the 3D-XL.

I use Viewsonic/Optoma DLP-Link shutter glasses. No 3d vision, just the glasses and projector.

There is some confusion about this. DLP-Link when used for most blueray players or even iz3d driver uses a checkerboard output. The DLP-Link supported on the acer and optoma do not support checkerboard but they do support 120Hz DLP-Link. Sooo... I'm unsure about using standalone blueray players etc, but it works great on a pc.

In iZ3d, use the 120Hz DLP output mode. In Stereoscopic player, use the software page-flipping mode. If you get eye-swapping using ATI video card, DL and install the 8.78-RC1 beta drivers, and do the registry hack as per this thread:

http://forum.iz3d.com/viewtopic.php?...=ati+presenter

Also, a setting per video properties in stereoscopic 3d that removed the last little bit of split-second eye-swapping for me was to set the video sync to left field one frame ahead in the options.

Everything noted above is only for ATI cards.

---

I tried with an nvidia 8800GTS and stereoscopic player worked great, but games were a pita. Non-Professional NVidia cards do not support quad buffer output in d3d. So in games you will get eyeswapping making gameplay near impossible. I assume that is why nvidia sells an emiter w/ their glasses to do it's own syncing. I'm unsure why the issue doesn't exist in stereoscopic player though. Also, the nvidia driver wants to start all games at 60Hz. Acer/Optoma projectors only support 3d at 120Hz. I had to use a utility called RefreshForce to force 120Hz in games.
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post #307 of 1760 Old 12-08-2010, 10:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

imo, the best way to take advantage of these projectors is with the Nvidia Glasses / emitter.

I disagree. There are some pretty large drawbacks to using the NVidia setup.

1. Emitter has a limited range. Also some people have theater room setup with behind/beside seating which won't allow the emitter to work right.
2. The emitter isn't needed when dlp projector already handles shutter glasses syncing
3. They are silly pricey compared to $80 per pair of DLP-Link glasses.
4. Many people on NVidia forums find that the viewsonic/optoma shutter glasses don't dim/screw w/ contrast nearly as much as the nvidia glasses.

I can report first hand that the viewsonic glasses are pretty nice. They also get 70-100hours per battery and the battery is $1 at drugstore, not proprietary thing. They also ship with extra batteries.

http://www.amazon.com/Optoma-BG-ZD10...1832316&sr=8-1

http://www.amazon.com/ViewSonic-PGD-...1832316&sr=8-2
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post #308 of 1760 Old 12-08-2010, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by friken View Post

In iZ3d, use the 120Hz DLP output mode. In Stereoscopic player, use the software page-flipping mode. If you get eye-swapping using ATI video card, DL and install the 8.78-RC1 beta drivers, and do the registry hack as per this thread:

friken
I'm slightly confused, when you say iZ3d are you referring to the 8.78-RC1 beta drivers or something else?
You say if I get eye-swapping install the beta drivers, but what drivers do I install before the beta to see if I get eye-swapping?

A quick listing of the sequence to go through would be nice.
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post #309 of 1760 Old 12-08-2010, 10:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nirvy111 View Post

Does watching 3D movies spoil your 2D movie experience?

Not at all. In fact, watching stuff on the Acer makes me appreciate the Planar's 2D IQ even more. I just prefer to watch the content the way it was meant to be seen -- 2D or 3D with the least amount of artifacts.
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post #310 of 1760 Old 12-08-2010, 11:02 AM
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Check out the quote in post #6574 in this link - the Acer (added: and the other 720p 3D DLPs like the more expensive Optoma) really is a "David" among "Goliaths"! to keep things clear the reference is to the Optoma, which he refers to as the Acer equivalent.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...77429&page=220

This particular reviewer I quoted also makes some comments about the Nvidia and DLP link glasses.
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post #311 of 1760 Old 12-08-2010, 02:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post

Check out the quote in post #6574 in this link - the Acer really is a "David" among "Goliaths"!

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...77429&page=220

This particular reviewer I quoted also makes some comments about the Nvidia and DLP link glasses.

That post is about an Optima.
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post #312 of 1760 Old 12-08-2010, 04:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k
imo, the best way to take advantage of these projectors is with the Nvidia Glasses / emitter.


Quote:
Originally Posted by friken View Post

I disagree. There are some pretty large drawbacks to using the NVidia setup.

1. Emitter has a limited range. Also some people have theater room setup with behind/beside seating which won't allow the emitter to work right.2. The emitter isn't needed when dlp projector already handles shutter glasses syncing
3. They are silly pricey compared to $80 per pair of DLP-Link glasses.
4. Many people on NVidia forums find that the viewsonic/optoma shutter glasses don't dim/screw w/ contrast nearly as much as the nvidia glasses.

I can report first hand that the viewsonic glasses are pretty nice. They also get 70-100hours per battery and the battery is $1 at drugstore, not proprietary thing. They also ship with extra batteries.

http://www.amazon.com/Optoma-BG-ZD10...1832316&sr=8-1

http://www.amazon.com/ViewSonic-PGD-...1832316&sr=8-2

Can you please elaborate on what you mean with your 1st point?

Thanks
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post #313 of 1760 Old 12-08-2010, 05:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob7145 View Post

That post is about an Optima.

From what I've read both the Acer and Optoma performance wise are pretty similar in 3D and he refers to the Optoma as being equivalent to the Acer. The point being that at least two, if not all the 720p 3D DLP projectors, offer a lot of bang for the buck.

I'd like to know how accurate his assessment of the DLP link glasses is. There's lots of conflicting information about how the DLP link glasses compare to the Nvidia ones.
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post #314 of 1760 Old 12-08-2010, 06:17 PM
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I'd like to know how accurate his assessment of the DLP link glasses is. There's lots of conflicting information about how the DLP link glasses compare to the Nvidia ones.[/quote]

+ 1. This is frustrating I'm on hold from purchasing either until there is some conclusive evidence. This might be a dumb question, but would you be able to use the DLP Link and Nvidia at the same time?
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post #315 of 1760 Old 12-08-2010, 07:07 PM
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Agree with the frustrating. Many times with new tech it is operator error that gives stuff a bad name. On my Acer the 3D switch has 3 positions, DLP Link - off - Nvidia. The projectors are often used with computers so info from the TV folks is almost useless. IZ3D forum has someone (I think) that got them both working at the same time but used another dongle added to the vga cable.
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post #316 of 1760 Old 12-08-2010, 09:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tyee View Post

friken
I'm slightly confused, when you say iZ3d are you referring to the 8.78-RC1 beta drivers or something else?
You say if I get eye-swapping install the beta drivers, but what drivers do I install before the beta to see if I get eye-swapping?

A quick listing of the sequence to go through would be nice.

To clarify, I'm referring to ATI video cards only regarding the beta drivers. So install the newest ATI video driver to see if you get eye swapping in games which I'm 99% sure you will. If you do DL the ATI beta 8.78-RC1 drivers. iZ3D is not the video card driver that is the 3d driver which allows 3d output from all directX games. For ATI cards (and nvidia without using NVidia's 3dVision stuff) you must use either iZ3d or TriDef drivers which both are 3d drivers for directX games and generically support numerous types of 3d outputs. Note, the tridef driver worked, but the iz3d seemed a bit better and easier to setup.

If you are using NVidia 3d Vision, Everything I have said is irrelevant Hope that helps.
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post #317 of 1760 Old 12-08-2010, 09:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RonF View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k
imo, the best way to take advantage of these projectors is with the Nvidia Glasses / emitter.




Can you please elaborate on what you mean with your 1st point?

Thanks

The Nvideo emitter seems to max out range of 12-15'. There are a number of people that have reported seating at 15-20' from the emmiter loses sync. I've tried DLP-link to 20' without problem. Others report further use, but I can't test any further than 20'.

I can report that due to ATI/NVidia drivers not supporting quad buffering, playing games via DLP-Link needs a little extra effort. For ATI, there is a beta video driver that enables quad buffering to ensure there is no eye swapping. Nvidia refuses to enable that feature. iZ3d is working on a solution but not sure any is released yet.

Picture quality I've heard both people saying DLP-Link is better/worse, or NVidia 3d vision is better/worse. I've seen them both and in my opinion they are both outstanding and very similar in their look. I am using the Viewsonic/Optoma DLPLink glasses. I have read xPand are not as nice image quality but I have not seen them first hand.
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post #318 of 1760 Old 12-08-2010, 09:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post

From what I've read both the Acer and Optoma performance wise are pretty similar in 3D and he refers to the Optoma as being equivalent to the Acer. The point being that at least two, if not all the 720p 3D DLP projectors, offer a lot of bang for the buck.

I'd like to know how accurate his assessment of the DLP link glasses is. There's lots of conflicting information about how the DLP link glasses compare to the Nvidia ones.

I agree about both being similar. I couldn't decide based on reviews so I bought both to test and will sell one of the two. To be honest I would have been very happy with either one and the "HUGE" differences some people claim are minor enough that side by side comparison is really needed to tell. However, out of the box color and image quality on the optoma is REALLY BAD. My guess is some people see that and don't bother to calibrate it before saying the acer is way better. Calibrated they are both very similar experiences.

As far as the NVidia 3d vision glasses vs dlp link glasses. I think there is a ton of bad info out there. And also, there are a lot of frustrated people that gave up on DLP-Link before some solutions were sorted out. DLP-Link glasses w/ these projectors takes some effort. I recommend ATI over NVidia currently as ATI has quad buffering support and NVidia mainstream cards do not. For those willing to buy professional NVidia Quadro cards, they do support quad buffering. Personally I think a huge bang for the buck value is the ATI 5770 and what I use to get very reasonable gaming fps in 3D as well as excellent movie watching all without any of the eye-swapping issues.

One thing to note, the NVidia 3D vision solution is easier out of the box, but they do it by requiring an emitter. If that emitter is mounted to the side of seating (where my computer is) it will not sync w/ the glasses. I'd have to run 30' of cable from computer to center front of my theater room for that to work right. It 'might' work if mounted where the projector is and bounce off the screen like dlp-link from the projector does but I did not try it and either way is a bit of a wire run for me.

In the end, I would rather use DLP-Link over 3d vision having tried both. Also, I already have high end ati cards 5770 and 5850 cards. The NVidia card I have extra is a 8800gts and just too slow for 3d gaming. Also, I really like the viewsonic glasses. They are priced well, don't over-dim the screen have cheap replacable batteries, and sync well at distance to the projector.
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post #319 of 1760 Old 12-09-2010, 03:17 AM
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The Iz3D AMD 3D DLP driver is free from IZ3D. They have a 30 day trial for other methods or buy the license. Only cost me $19.95 for the full set because I had an AMD card (there was a test )
The unlimited outputs are free too.
http://www.iz3d.com/driver

http://www.iz3d.com/amd_hd3d/
Already had a 5870E6 and they gave me the discount!
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post #320 of 1760 Old 12-09-2010, 07:17 AM
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Bob7145
That 3D DLP driver you link to is different than the one friken links to (8.78-RC1 beta driver). So which one should I use?? I do have an ATI 5570 card and the Acer H5360. I only watch movies, no games.
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post #321 of 1760 Old 12-09-2010, 07:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tyee View Post
Bob7145
That 3D DLP driver you link to is different than the one friken links to (8.78-RC1 beta driver). So which one should I use?? I do have an ATI 5570 card and the Acer H5360.
Both for gaming, 3DBR. The 8.78-RC1 beta is a Vcard driver. The Ati 3D DLP (or any of the others @ IZ3D) is a 3D activator
IZ3D Manual http://www.iz3d.com/download/iZ3D_Ma...10_19_2010.pdf

Edit: Sorry, reread your post.
If you just watch Bluray all you need is AMD 5xxx Vcard card and PDVD.
3DBR requires 6xxx Vcard, a 3D activator (like IZ3D) and PDVD or some other player.

Not hard. Installed the trial version on old HTPC with Nvidia 7950gt and 2.2 AMD 3700 and played Portal in 3D @ 1280 x 720 x 120Hz with the Acer 5360 the other night using the Anaglyph IZ3D driver and Blue/Red cardboard glasses ha ha.
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post #322 of 1760 Old 12-09-2010, 10:35 AM
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Hey guys don't forget to share your Picture settings in this thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1295508
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post #323 of 1760 Old 12-09-2010, 08:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob7145 View Post
Edit: Sorry, reread your post.
If you just watch Bluray all you need is AMD 5xxx Vcard card and PDVD.
3DBR requires 6xxx Vcard, a 3D activator (like IZ3D) and PDVD or some other player.
Bob
When you say Bluray I hope you mean 3D Bluray? I read on avs that Li-on is using his 5570 card to playback BR discs. I know I read on ATI's website that the 5xxx series can't do 3DBR, but Li-on says it works (via his PC running PDVD I believe). I'm just going to double check that thread to make sure.
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post #324 of 1760 Old 12-10-2010, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tyee View Post

Bob
When you say Bluray I hope you mean 3D Bluray? I read on avs that Li-on is using his 5570 card to playback BR discs. I know I read on ATI's website that the 5xxx series can't do 3DBR, but Li-on says it works (via his PC running PDVD I believe). I'm just going to double check that thread to make sure.

I'm already watching 2D BluRay with a 5870 and PDVD10_0.
I need a 6xxx to watch 3D BluRays.
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post #325 of 1760 Old 12-10-2010, 04:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by friken View Post

I disagree. There are some pretty large drawbacks to using the NVidia setup.

1. Emitter has a limited range. Also some people have theater room setup with behind/beside seating which won't allow the emitter to work right.
2. The emitter isn't needed when dlp projector already handles shutter glasses syncing
3. They are silly pricey compared to $80 per pair of DLP-Link glasses.
4. Many people on NVidia forums find that the viewsonic/optoma shutter glasses don't dim/screw w/ contrast nearly as much as the nvidia glasses.

I can report first hand that the viewsonic glasses are pretty nice. They also get 70-100hours per battery and the battery is $1 at drugstore, not proprietary thing. They also ship with extra batteries.

http://www.amazon.com/Optoma-BG-ZD10...1832316&sr=8-1

http://www.amazon.com/ViewSonic-PGD-...1832316&sr=8-2

please don't take just part of my statement out of context. I was specifically referring to the drop in contrast & color shift in Nvidia vs. DLP link modes. I will take the ~ 1700:1 with the Nvidia glasses vs. ~400:1 in DLP link mode. This was measured by a highly regarded member (pteittinen) in the over 3k forum who does reviews for a living using top shelf equipment. invite him here if you'd like to argue the topic, I'd be interested to hear both opinions.

I have a 142" inch screen, center the transmitter near my center channel speaker and don't have issues with the range. The glasses are $115 vs. $80, close but cheaper is cheaper so i'll give you that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pteittinen View Post

As for on/off, HD67 achieves a respectable 1700:1 in 3D mode with DLP-Link disabled. Enable it, and on/off CR drops to a measly 400:1. (I'd written a rambling chapter on what I consider a "good enough" on/off CR, but this post is too long and off-topic enough already so I deleted it.)

As for glasses, you're much better off with Nvidia's 3D Vision solution (even if their glasses are uncomfortable and lenses appear to be only partly polarized) than going for DLP-Link. Can't say what it does on the Acer, but on Optoma DLP-Link not only destroys the on/off CR, but also turns blacks to purple. Good luck to anyone brave or foolish enough to try calibrating that

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post #326 of 1760 Old 12-10-2010, 08:05 PM
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pteittinen's comment you quoted probably has more to do with the brand of glasses not DLP Link.
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post #327 of 1760 Old 12-10-2010, 08:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob7145 View Post

pteittinen's comment you quoted probably has more to do with the brand of glasses not DLP Link.

the contrast measurements are taken off the screen in 3D mode with DLP-Link enabled / Disabled, not through the glasses. Not sure how that would apply to a specific brand of glasses.

I'll pick up a pair and see for myself what's happening between Nvidia IR vs DLP Link.

The Optoma is $99, the Viewsonic is $89.
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post #328 of 1760 Old 12-10-2010, 08:34 PM
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Hmmm, most people watch with the glasses on...
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post #329 of 1760 Old 12-10-2010, 09:41 PM
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If the same image measures 1700:1 in one mode, vs 400:1 in another, the drop in contrast will be apparent through the glasses. We aren't talking about stellar contrast ratios to begin with.

These Nvidia vs. DLP-Link arguments are all over the internet. Another AVS member claiming the DLP-Link compromise the image vs the Nvidia setup.

http://www.avforums.com/forums/proje...s-picture.html

1) When in DLP link mode, the projector chooses a special picture preset that matches the colour tint of the LCD lenses for DLP link glasses. As a result, it may look wrong with nVidia glasses

2) In DLP link mode, black is no longer black, but a grey/blue. When wearing the glasses it looks more grey again, but it IS compromising contrast ratio significantly as it is shifting the minimum light output in dark areas of the image

3) In DLP link mode, the glasses may become inverted requiring you to go into the projector menu to swap them

4) In DLP link mode, colours look a little more pale so this seems to affect overall image fidelity too


I'll pick up a pair next week to evaluate the differences for myself. Curiosity has gotten the best of me and I want to see the differences (if any) firsthand.
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post #330 of 1760 Old 12-10-2010, 11:02 PM
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Nvidia is a proprietary system that will go the way of betamax, hd-dvd, the DoDo bird etc. Would not mind trying it myself but I'm not gonna buy a graphics card with it just to see if it works. You could buy a killer BR-DVD player for less, much less!
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