LG CF181D, New SXRD-projector from LG - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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post #361 of 1266 Old 06-04-2010, 09:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonybuchanan View Post

My big advice is to buy your screen after youve tried the pj on a white wall. The reason is you can adjust to your ideal screen size and you also may find that you do not need a screen at all.

This is advice I was given. I did not follow this advice since I was so itchy to just get something into the house. I regret this.

Once I got this pj and projected it onto the screen, before it was aligned properly, I could see half the picture screen on my blank white wall and the other half on the screen.
I have to say for the few minutes I had it like this I didnt see any difference. The white flat paint looked really, really the same.
Bare in mind that I did not want to play around with the image on the wall for long since the screen was paid for and I didnt want to get any buyers remorse however for a while there and still now I wish I had bought screen later.

Now I have a 100' screen while wishing that I had a 120" screen. Also, I may have paid for something I could get on my white drywall with some sort of balck velvet trim.

Throw it up on Craigslist and upgrade then! I've bought and sold two screens already in a 8 month period. Mounting a third today. lol
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post #362 of 1266 Old 06-04-2010, 10:12 AM
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I have moved closer.

Guys tell me if this makes any sense or can this equation or rationale be improved.

I am trying to come up with a way of figuring out seating distance to screen size and its effect on my visual experience.

I start with a ratio and I come up with a number/factor.
The problem is that number may be meaningless since it doesnt take into account how the eye perceives things.

Anyway.

I have a 100" and my eyes are 8' away. This results in a factor of 12.5.

If I had a 120" and my eyes are 9.6' away I have a factor of 12.5 also.

Does that mean my visual experience is the same for a 100" or 120" at those distances ?

Taking it one step further to see how close I have to sit to get the same experience of a 120" screen on my 100",

if a 120 screen at my 8' eye distance results in a factor of 15.00,

then,

to get the same ratio (effect) on my 100" I would have to sit at 6.65'.

Does this mean if I sit at 6.65' I can save my money and keep my 100" versus replace it with a 120" ?

This is probably all gobbledegook. Whats you guys opinions ?
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post #363 of 1266 Old 06-04-2010, 12:14 PM
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Does anybody have any suggestions on how I should use those first 4 hours to test the unit to see if it performs satisfactorily?

Display an all-white image and and all-black image (common on test DVDs) and see if there are any stuck pixels. Display a convergence pattern and see how closely the red, green, and blue lines are together. Perfect overlap is extremely rare; less than 1 pixel of skew is good for most people @ this price point. Besides that, watch some of you favorite movie scenes or video... do you like the image?

Greg

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post #364 of 1266 Old 06-04-2010, 12:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonybuchanan View Post

I have moved closer.

Guys tell me if this makes any sense or can this equation or rationale be improved.

I am trying to come up with a way of figuring out seating distance to screen size and its effect on my visual experience.

I start with a ratio and I come up with a number/factor.
The problem is that number may be meaningless since it doesnt take into account how the eye perceives things.

Anyway.

I have a 100" and my eyes are 8' away. This results in a factor of 12.5.

If I had a 120" and my eyes are 9.6' away I have a factor of 12.5 also.

Does that mean my visual experience is the same for a 100" or 120 at those distances ?

Taking it one step further to see how close I have to sit to get the same experience of a 120" screen,

if a 120 screen at my 8' eye distance results in a factor of 15.00,

then,

to get the same ratio (effect) on my 100" I would have to sit at 6.65'.

Does this mean if I sit at 6.65' I can save my money and keep my 100" versus replace it with a 120" ?

This is probably all gobbledegook. Whats you guys opinions ?

Sort of. what you are trying to get is the same viewing angle... and your math will sort of work out, given +/- 1-2 degree, given that the tangent of the angle is not linear.
NOw, other things that are NOT the same will be how to can see the screen material, the resolution of the HDTV needs to be much higher, the "defects" will be more apparent, and potentially your speaker/sub placement and setup will all be quite different when you sit closer.
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post #365 of 1266 Old 06-04-2010, 03:25 PM
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I couldn’t find the source but I read somewhere the best viewing angle is 30deg recommended by some engineering society. That roughly translates to 1.5x the screen width (not diagonal). Move closer will provide you with the same visual effects as bigger screen long as you do not exceed the image resolution. Larger screen will only allow more rows of seating and still maintain the acceptable viewing angle for all rows.

Edit: I did some quick calculation. The angle and distance numbers do not agree, I must remembered them wrong. However this will give you the idea. I'll try to find the original article.
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post #366 of 1266 Old 06-04-2010, 06:21 PM
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I could not find the article I mentioned but Google'd some others. Here is the deal. SMPTE recommends 30deg angle of view (viewing distance 1.87x screen width). THX recommends 40deg angle of view (viewing distance 1.37x screen width). 1.5x is somewhere in between and just a guideline of course. Here are a couple links with better explanations.

http://carltonbale.com/1080p-does-matter

http://www.hdhes.com/tv/hdtvsize.aspx
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post #367 of 1266 Old 06-05-2010, 10:57 PM
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Question to the CF181d owners out there:

First, I bought the CF181D about 2 months ago and love it. That said, there is a strange issue I have with my PS3.

The CF181D will always (always!) resync once with the PS3 after it's been on for about 15-20 minutes. Screen goes blank for about 3-5 seconds, comes back, and everything is fine from that point forward. This only seems to happen with the PS3 - my Xbox and Tivo don't exhibit this behavior. They're all connected through an hdmi switch and amp.

The ps3 is an original 60gb launch-day model. I didn't see this on my previous projector, but since it seems localized to the ps3 and happens JUST once, Im not sure what to think.

Any ideas/suggestions?

Thanks,
John
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post #368 of 1266 Old 06-06-2010, 12:14 AM
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seems to me some HDMI sync issue... You might try taking out the switch and just try direct connect to either the amp or the 181D and see if that happens. If it does, you know there is some compatibility issue.
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post #369 of 1266 Old 06-06-2010, 02:04 AM
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Any one test this for gaming input lag yet? =P
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post #370 of 1266 Old 06-06-2010, 09:33 AM
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The viewing angle recommendations by Lucas and Hollywood have been more than violated by me.
And guess what, I am totally happy.
Maybe they have a motive for suggesting you sit back so far.
For me, my eyes at 7.3' for my 100" is perfect.
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post #371 of 1266 Old 06-06-2010, 11:09 AM
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I read these articles again. I think what they said is actually "maximum" viewing distance not the "best" viewing distance. The maximum distance is more dictated by image resolution. I guess 7' is fine long as you like it.
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post #372 of 1266 Old 06-06-2010, 11:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonybuchanan View Post

The viewing angle recommendations by Lucas and Hollywood have been more than violated by me.
And guess what, I am totally happy.
Maybe they have a motive for suggesting you sit back so far.
For me, my eyes at 7.3' for my 100" is perfect.

By employing ultra smooth, texture-less screen surfaces, I've been matching up 720p Res. PJs with 110" to 144" diagonal screens and placing people at 1:1 seating/width ratios for over 6 years.

When I use JVC or Panasonic units, it's even less an issue if the reflecting surface is smooth. The PJ on discussion here falls solidly into that same realm.

Only personal preference need dictate distance these days @ 1080p and w/HD content.

Shucks, I stopped paying all / all attention to THX ratings once they devolved down into 4 different "performance" levels. They always were nothing concise, if not actually and obviously a marketing tool and revenue source playing upon a name made famous by Fictional fare, which after all....says it all, doesn't it?

That's what is "All Good" about the improvements we see in A/V Gear. If you know ANYTHING", you know what's good or not so much so.....

...and if in doubt, ask the experts what "is good?" We'll tell ya.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"
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post #373 of 1266 Old 06-06-2010, 03:19 PM
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Does anyone now if the Calman 4 can take advantage of the USB port on Cf-181D
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post #374 of 1266 Old 06-07-2010, 06:08 PM
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Hi. Got my projector today. Nice and big. I like it very much.
One question is, how do I know if the projector "take the deep color" or not?
I had my PS3 turned on Full RGB and SuperWhite, but then how do I know my projector accept it? I do not see that in the INFO manual (just say the 1080p and 24Hz or 60Hz). JoeRod, how do you verify LG181FD accept the deep color space? Thanks!
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post #375 of 1266 Old 06-07-2010, 06:32 PM
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The easiest way to confirm is with a good VP like the DVDO Duo. The HDMIs will "talk" using EDID amd then you will know if it accepts it or not. WIth the Duo the Deep Color selection will be grayed out and only be able to send in 8 bit (24 bit total). You can also get the same info from a newer receiver (like and Onkyo). They have video display options from the remote that will also tell you if a pj or TV will accept deep color (upconverted)...

I was very happy with the LG since it took it...

For my latest Reviews and Stuff google -> Joe Rod Home Theater .Com
Check out my Dolby Atmos/Surround first take:

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post #376 of 1266 Old 06-07-2010, 11:36 PM
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Thanks Joerod! Yike, I have neither the DVDO nor Onkyo. i have an Pioneer VSX-21TXH and it does not show anything... Actually, I am tempted to buy a DVDO Duo as it had 2 HDMI output which I really like, and also upscale on everything for me, including my DISH... Too bad it is still pretty expensive at $1k..

However, I do like the PJ very very much. This is the first PJ I got, so maybe that's not quite fair. However, my recollection of PJ is that the picture usually is quite grainly and show a lot of defects as it is usually to a big screen. However, I do not see much of those, even if I project to my textured wall. Sitting at 12-13' definitely help However, the larger image coupled with 1080p resolution is just amazing! (I had a 55" plasma with 720p) Even my hard to please wife seems pretty happy. Black level to me is not a problem. In fact, it is better than my 5 years old plasma in a dark room for sure... Thanks guys for this great suggestions!
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post #377 of 1266 Old 06-07-2010, 11:37 PM
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Oh.. one more thing. Did anyone of you manage to get BTB or WTW in this projector? I could not see that using PS3 (with Full RGB and SuperWhite=ON) and my Pioneer VSX-21TXH...
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post #378 of 1266 Old 06-08-2010, 10:08 AM
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May I ask about the zoom capability of the 181 vis-a-vis screen size of 119" and projector to screen distance of ~17.5 feet?

projector reviews.com site says:

"...The LG is pretty flexible, but the Epson wins, easily. With a 100" screen, the LG can only be placed as far back as 17 feet 10 inches, compared to the Epson's 21 feet..."

the LG site's owners' manual is no longer download-able! something's wrong with their link.

my ceiling is 11 feet. projector to screen is roughly 16.5 ft to 18 ft. I'll use a ceiling mount with an extension pole of maybe 24" or so.

my concern is that i don't want to lose a great deal of brightness due to me being at the limits of its zoom. without being able to see the table/chart in its owners' manual, i cannot confirm this.

any assistance would be most appreciated.

thanks in advance.
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post #379 of 1266 Old 06-08-2010, 10:09 AM
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I too am extremely happy with my new pj. Even coming from a pretty bright Sanyo PLV-70 I always thought it’s hard for a pj to reach the brightness and contrast of a good LCD or plasma TV. I was kind of in shock when I saw the image the first time and I was only on the low lamp. Watching the NBA final game last night, my wife, who usually is kind of indifferent about this audio/video stuff, also commented how clear the game looks on screen.
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post #380 of 1266 Old 06-08-2010, 12:05 PM
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eieio, maybe others can chime in here however the article is NOT saying the epson has better brightness. It cannot be saying the epson is brighter since it says the LG is the brightest every reviewed, or something like that.

I think he is saying at 17' the LG cannot get smaller than 100" screen and the epson the same at 21'. So insofar as zooming range goes the epson is better.

So if you only have a 100" you cannot go back further than 17' with the LG.

Thats all he is saying in your quote.

Your 120" screen can easily be done by LG at 17'.

I can zoom my LG bigger than my 100" and my pj lens is at 12'.
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post #381 of 1266 Old 06-08-2010, 12:07 PM
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The further you go back the bigger the image. 17' on the LG would be a huge image without zoom, maybe 180". Zooming allows you to get smaller since not many people have 180" screens.
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post #382 of 1266 Old 06-08-2010, 02:04 PM
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Anybody in Central Illinois willing to let me take a look at this PJ. Thanks.
Steve
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post #383 of 1266 Old 06-08-2010, 02:21 PM
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eieio, for 120" screen, the minimum distance is 3610mm (141in) and maximum is 6530mm(257inch). So, thats about 11.75ft to 21.4ft. your distance of 17.5 will fit quite well in the middle of the zoom range, so you are not at the limit. However, from Art's review, the delta between max zoom and tel is only 18% on lumen. So, with you in the middle, it is maybe 10% less than maximum, but 10% more from the min.
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post #384 of 1266 Old 06-09-2010, 04:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fight4yu View Post

Oh.. one more thing. Did anyone of you manage to get BTB or WTW in this projector? I could not see that using PS3 (with Full RGB and SuperWhite=ON) and my Pioneer VSX-21TXH...

I did it, you need to switch Black level on "High" and calibrate both Lg and Pionner in accordance.
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post #385 of 1266 Old 06-09-2010, 10:03 AM
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Thanks arayle!
So, did everyone set the Black level on "HIGH"? What is that? Menu is quite useless.... Any side effect?
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post #386 of 1266 Old 06-09-2010, 11:50 AM
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Hi All: I'm torn, as a first time front projection person, between the LG 181 and the Epson 8500.

Situation: 11-ft ceiling height, 17.5 ft from projector to screen, mixed Living Room/Home Theater room, hence some ambient, will have black out blinds for windows (though may not have side rails on the black out blinds), 120" screen (possibly Da-Lite Contour Electrol High Contrast Matte White 1.1).

Pros and Cons:

1) Epson is more "invested" in their reputation in the front projector market than LG. Better warranty w/24-hr return/turnaround policy.

2) LG 181 clearly brighter, which is superior for a mixed-use Living Room/home theater room with some amount of ambient light, i.e. even for eating dinner at the coffee table - simply can't do it in pitch darkness (which would be unpleasant to eat in total darkness).

May I ask of your thoughts please?

Thanks very much in advance.
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post #387 of 1266 Old 06-09-2010, 01:25 PM
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It's easy.

Big Screen
Long Throw
Both PJs are 1080p
You need ambient light performance at least to a degree.
You need as much brightness combined with Contrast as you can get.
The LG is significantly brighter than the 8500.
The LG comes almost dead on calibrated for a white surface out of the Box, and requires very little adjustment to gray surfaces down to N8.0
The LG has a center mounted Lens...but only Vertical Lens Shift.
At 120" diagonal and a 17.5' throw...
.....The LG will deliver 15-16 fls
.....The 8500...just 13 fls
They both cost the same at present.

I'd say the LG in a walk.

You need to optimize your screen selection and get into a High Contrast Gray that still maintains 1.2 or more gain. Combined with the LG your concerns are zilch. Now they would be small indeed with the 8500 too, just not quite as teeny.

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post #388 of 1266 Old 06-09-2010, 02:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eieio View Post

Hi All: I'm torn, as a first time front projection person, between the LG 181 and the Epson 8500.

Situation: 11-ft ceiling height, 17.5 ft from projector to screen, mixed Living Room/Home Theater room, hence some ambient, will have black out blinds for windows (though may not have side rails on the black out blinds), 120" screen (possibly Da-Lite Contour Electrol High Contrast Matte White 1.1).

Pros and Cons:

1) Epson is more "invested" in their reputation in the front projector market than LG. Better warranty w/24-hr return/turnaround policy.

2) LG 181 clearly brighter, which is superior for a mixed-use Living Room/home theater room with some amount of ambient light, i.e. even for eating dinner at the coffee table - simply can't do it in pitch darkness (which would be unpleasant to eat in total darkness).

May I ask of your thoughts please?

Thanks very much in advance.

This is my fourth pj in about 15 years. My usage is pretty similar to yours. Mixed use with some ambient light most the times. My experience is brightness is probably the most important quality you’re looking for in choosing a pj. I always felt bad before I got CF181D every time I watched another LCD/plasma TV. Those things look much better in ambient light than my previous pj’s. I think only people watch in a cave 100% of time will put black level and contrast, for which LG181D is not that bad either, as the top priority.
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post #389 of 1266 Old 06-09-2010, 06:45 PM
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Based on your throw distance, screen size and some ambient lighting I'd recommend the LG. As for Epson having more of an established reputation, true, but thoroughly read the AVSforum thread for the 8500ub from those who purchased it. The LG LCOS image is pixel free and whilst not quite as sharp as some DLP projectors it gives a film like image. If you're near SE Wisconsin/Chicago I'd be happy to demo it for you as the LG is most likely not being demoed in most A/V stores. If you see an RS10/15 being displayed, the LG image is just as nice but not as deep of blacks on the all-dark scenes.
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post #390 of 1266 Old 06-09-2010, 07:23 PM
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thx gents for your replies.

may i ask if there are folks in the manhattan area who might know where i can find a demo place? it's hard to find the LG 181 anywhere brick and mortar here.

thx.
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