LG CF181D, New SXRD-projector from LG - Page 16 - AVS Forum
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post #451 of 1266 Old 06-28-2010, 06:15 PM
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Well a gray screen would be a good match.

Tony, sorry about the mixup, I glanced at your name quickly and saw Andy somehow.
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post #452 of 1266 Old 06-28-2010, 08:37 PM
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anyone had ground issues with this PJ ?

I just got a new rythmik sub and I get a terrible hum, however

1) if I remove the projector HDMI from the AVR the hum goes away

2) if I plug the sub into the same outlet as the projector it goes away.

Neither of these things is possible long term,any ideas ?
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post #453 of 1266 Old 06-29-2010, 05:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snarks View Post

anyone had ground issues with this PJ ?

I just got a new rythmik sub and I get a terrible hum, however

1) if I remove the projector HDMI from the AVR the hum goes away

2) if I plug the sub into the same outlet as the projector it goes away.

Neither of these things is possible long term,any ideas ?

It is a ground loop issue. Your must have your projector and sub on different circuit breakers when it hums. Put a cheater plug on either the sub or the projector (preferably not both). It will break the ground loop.
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post #454 of 1266 Old 06-29-2010, 06:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fight4yu View Post

Black level can be "better", but I have not seen 8500UB so I cannot comment on "how much" better. To me, it is OK and it is not distracting enough that I say "oh.. this is dark gray, not black!". I have to agree to some review that in scenes that have black and other colors, this is not noticeable.
Maybe you can get a gray screen if you worry about contrast. With the lumen this PJ going to give you, a gray screen with 0.8 will still be quite good. Again, without knowing your room and light condition, I am just making a guess here.

I am not guessing, and the images I posted take the "guesswork" even further out of the picture.

Considering the essential brightness of this PJ, that factor...and that alone is what keeps it from achieving far deeper levels of Black. Reducing the intensity of light output at the source is NOT the answer, rather one must attenuate (...as selectively as possible...) the darker shades of Gray Scale.

The darker wavelengths of light are less intense, imbued with less energy, so they attenuate more readily than more energetic light. A simple Gray screen of .85 gain would help, but there would be some degree of undesirable attenuation of colors and whites along with the deeper shades of Gray.

However, a Screen with modest "positive" gain and a N.8 Gray shade will work to best advantage, deepening perceived Black levels, while maintaining as much reflective output of the lighter elements as can possibly be done.

That is exactly what you see being accomplished in my previous images. With this particular PJ, it's a solution that is ideally suited to improving a already excellent viewing experience.

Someday we will have a $1000.00 SXRD / Lycos unit with 2500 lumens AND 1,000,000:1 "Native" Contrast. Then....virtually any smooth white surface will suffice. Until then however, PJs of the CG181D's ilk will perform well enough when matched to the correct screen to satisfy anyone who is contemplating a purchase within the LG's price point.

To quote James T. Kirk;
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post #455 of 1266 Old 06-29-2010, 07:18 AM
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Know what MississippiMan (HTK for Home Theater King), I am going to sell my Grandview Screen on craigslist and get a screen with the specs you just described.

Only difference is that this time I am going 130" or 145".

I am sending you a PM regarding using you to build this however my hopes are not high since I am in Chicago and you in Mississippi.
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post #456 of 1266 Old 06-29-2010, 10:32 PM
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Where are the exhaust vents on this unit? They appear to be on the left and right sides but the manual says that the pj sends the hot air through "ventilation holes (exhaust) on the front".
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post #457 of 1266 Old 06-30-2010, 12:46 AM
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definitely on the side. Can't remember if it is left/right or both though...
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post #458 of 1266 Old 06-30-2010, 09:23 AM
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I'm looking for a projector in the 2-3k range, is the LG worth a few hundred over the P4000?

have a light controlled room, 100-120inch diag screen size, watch blueray and hdtv about 50/50.
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post #459 of 1266 Old 06-30-2010, 10:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Commoncents View Post

I'm looking for a projector in the 2-3k range, is the LG worth a few hundred over the P4000?

have a light controlled room, 100-120inch diag screen size, watch blueray and hdtv about 50/50.

Under your conditions.....no. And I really like the LG.

It's the brightness of the LG, combined with acceptably deep contrast that makes it a winner. The Panny 4k has better overall contrast, and a excellent smooth, sharp image. It also has a much better Feature Set.

The only other possible circumstance that could affect that advice would be your Throw Distance. If it's "long" and you also want 120" diagonal, then Brightness once again becomes a consideration.

To quote James T. Kirk;
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post #460 of 1266 Old 06-30-2010, 10:17 AM
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Thanks MississippiMan.

How about throwing in a slightly used jvc RS10 in the mix? In the same price range?
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post #461 of 1266 Old 06-30-2010, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Commoncents View Post

Thanks MississippiMan.

How about throwing in a slightly used jvc RS10 in the mix? In the same price range?

Better still, if your Throw is at minimum and the Screen chosen is at least 1.2 gain or more.

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post #462 of 1266 Old 06-30-2010, 11:37 AM
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Mississippi,

What kind of mount is that?
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post #463 of 1266 Old 06-30-2010, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by avsform1 View Post

Mississippi,

What kind of mount is that?

The flat Projector "Plate" was originally a Chief "Dedicated" Plate for a JVC RS100. The actual "Mount" is a Cheif RPA "6 Point" w/1.5" Threaded Drop Tube Hole. (...do NOT order a Chief or Peerless Univ. Mount. They won't fit...)

I had to make a template of the Mounting holes on the LG, then lay it onto the Plate and first punch set a depression at each location, then drill @ high speed through the metal. I used a standard 3/16" -for Metal- Bit and a Ryobi 18 Volt set to High Speed...no issues at all.

The result is far more attractive than a "Spider Mount" such as the Sanus listed on this Thread. And it allows you to drop your Cords hidden within the 1.5" tube (...I use Schedule 40 PVC & Threaded End Adapters...)

Sometimes I simply use a heavy duty square Chief Ceiling Plate* "behind" the Ceiling Drywall if I have access. (* it also has a 1.5" threaded hole ) or if no access and dealing with a pre-wire, a round Peerless Ceiling Plate w 1.5" threaded Hole.

But most always I construct something like shown below, so the installation shows only a Pipe protruding from the Ceiling...No wires...and it can be "unscrewed" close the the Ceiling if needed. Just paint to match Ceiling and it's a very clean installation.


To quote James T. Kirk;
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post #464 of 1266 Old 06-30-2010, 06:36 PM
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Anthony, depending on the timing I may be able to contribute with you to the Mississippi Mans travel plans to the Midwest.Im about 40min from downtown Chicago.I would be interested in having my screen painted in anticipation of getting the lG.

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post #465 of 1266 Old 06-30-2010, 06:53 PM
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Commoncents,

Would recommend either the LG or the JVC over the Panasonic. I've viewed all these projectors, the image simply does not pop on the Panny the way it does on the LG and JVC. The black level of the LG really isn't that much inferior to the Panasonic on dark scenes, when it comes to normal and bright scenes the image of the LG and JVC is far ahead of the Panny.

The JVC has no auto-iris, that's usually a huge plus and a testament to it's build quality. The LG auto-iris is very smooth, so it's not a bother. JVC will give you the deeper black levels, LG will however render more shadow detail on dark scenes but not be overall as dark an image.

My screen size is under 120", but even so, lumens do matter even at that size. If you can find a place to view them side by side, think you'll agree. Am loving the LG, it was between that and a used RS10 for my purchase. Think you'll be happy either way. :-)

Bob
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post #466 of 1266 Old 06-30-2010, 09:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waterfowl View Post

Commoncents,

Would recommend either the LG or the JVC over the Panasonic. I've viewed all these projectors, the image simply does not pop on the Panny the way it does on the LG and JVC. The black level of the LG really isn't that much inferior to the Panasonic on dark scenes, when it comes to normal and bright scenes the image of the LG and JVC is far ahead of the Panny.

The JVC has no auto-iris, that's usually a huge plus and a testament to it's build quality. The LG auto-iris is very smooth, so it's not a bother. JVC will give you the deeper black levels, LG will however render more shadow detail on dark scenes but not be overall as dark an image.

My screen size is under 120", but even so, lumens do matter even at that size. If you can find a place to view them side by side, think you'll agree. Am loving the LG, it was between that and a used RS10 for my purchase. Think you'll be happy either way. :-)

Bob


Thx Bob, really appreciate your input from your experience w/ these PJ.
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post #467 of 1266 Old 07-01-2010, 07:51 AM
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Waterfowl gave you essentially nothing but good advice, but did not take into account several factors that make things be quite flexible for you.
  • Your Screen Size is small. I think? Your post is not clear about that. You already have one? Or is it still to be purchased/made? If your Screen-to-be is Gray to help improve perceived contrast, then the LG is the Ticket. Matte White? The Panny. Got a little extra cash to burn?...the JVC (...ANY JVC...) is the clear choice if the image is 100" diagonal.
  • At that size, with a shorter Throw Distance, you will be able to calibrate the Panny on Low lamp and still have a excellent image with plenty of "PoP".
  • At your small Screen size, the LG will simply make the image coming off the Screen blaze like a Acetylene Torch, and all that brilliance WILL work against the LG's ability to deliver anything close to it's stated Dynamic & native Contrast. None of the best "Contrast performing" PJ are near to as bright as the LG...and for good reason. The brighter the Lumen output, the more difficult it is for any PJ to achieve / maintain deep Black levels. Even with JVC's Panel technology, if they jumped their ANSI Lumen output up to 1600 lumens, they'd have to employ Iris technology to get up into the higher Dynamic Contrast levels obtained by PJs like the Epson/Panny. And "Native Contrast' would also drop accordingly.
  • Your Ceiling color...and directly adjacent Wall color will be a factor. If they are light colored, and you have a White Screen +a uber bright image, the reflection from the walls, and especially the ceiling, will work against any PJ selection you choose.
  • ....unless you set the LG to low lamp and calibrate it downwards into a less bright parameter.
  • .....and if you must do that (...and you must...) then suddenly the justification for considering spending $300.00 more goes flying South. **
  • The JVC is perhaps the best choice, but it's not easy to find one for less than $2800.00 unless it's used.
  • Your request seemed directed at which PJ would offer the best "value-to-performance" between the Panny and LG, and so there lies the reasoning behind my determination. If you can consider spending more out of pocket, of course your options would expend accordingly. But even at the JVC's best, it would never equal the LG 181d in post-calibrated lumen output.

** Bear in mind my love affair with the LG is based around both it's smooth SXRD image and the ability to use it's brightness along with my darker versions of Silver Fire ambient light Screens. Therein, I can use the extra lumens to help prevent loss of detail and White/Color dynamics. But the exact same holds true with the Panny, as far as improving Contrast and detail under room lighting while keeping the image acceptable bright and punchy, leastwise at 100" diagonal.

Had you stated you had a 120"er, the LG would have taken the cake. Having complete Light Control, along with a small screen really makes it all quite the no brainer as far as I'm concerned. But that's me.

To quote James T. Kirk;
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post #468 of 1266 Old 07-01-2010, 07:56 AM
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Heavyweight, this is awesome being able to cut his travel cost in half.

When I get home I will measure my room since I have to rearrange everything for a longer throw distance.
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post #469 of 1266 Old 07-01-2010, 08:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

Waterfowl gave you essentially nothing but good advice, but did not take into account several factors that make things be quite flexible for you.
  • Your Screen Size is small. I think? Your post is not clear about that. You already have one? Or is it still to be purchased/made? If your Screen-to-be is Gray to help improve perceived contrast, then the LG is the Ticket. Matte White? The Panny. Got a little extra cash to burn?...the JVC (...ANY JVC...) is the clear choice if the image is 100" diagonal.
  • At that size, with a shorter Throw Distance, you will be able to calibrate the Panny on Low lamp and still have a excellent image with plenty of "PoP".
  • At your small Screen size, the LG will simply make the image coming off the Screen blaze like a Acetylene Torch, and all that brilliance WILL work against the LG's ability to deliver anything close to it's stated Dynamic & native Contrast. None of the best "Contrast performing" PJ are near to as bright as the LG...and for good reason. The brighter the Lumen output, the more difficult it is for any PJ to achieve / maintain deep Black levels. Even with JVC's Panel technology, if they jumped their ANSI Lumen output up to 1600 lumens, they'd have to employ Iris technology to get up into the higher Dynamic Contrast levels obtained by PJs like the Epson/Panny. And "Native Contrast' would also drop accordingly.
  • Your Ceiling color...and directly adjacent Wall color will be a factor. If they are light colored, and you have a White Screen +a uber bright image, the reflection from the walls, and especially the ceiling, will work against any PJ selection you choose.
  • ....unless you set the LG to low lamp and calibrate it downwards into a less bright parameter.
  • .....and if you must do that (...and you must...) then suddenly the justification for considering spending $300.00 more goes flying South. **
  • The JVC is perhaps the best choice, but it's not easy to find one for less than $2800.00 unless it's used.
  • Your request seemed directed at which PJ would offer the best "value-to-performance" between the Panny and LG, and so there lies the reasoning behind my determination. If you can consider spending more out of pocket, of course your options would expend accordingly. But even at the JVC's best, it would never equal the LG 181d in post-calibrated lumen output.

** Bear in mind my love affair with the LG is based around both it's smooth SXRD image and the ability to use it's brightness along with my darker versions of Silver Fire ambient light Screens. Therein, I can use the extra lumens to help prevent loss of detail and White/Color dynamics. But the exact same holds true with the Panny, as far as improving Contrast and detail under room lighting while keeping the image acceptable bright and punchy, leastwise at 100" diagonal.

Had you stated you had a 120"er, the LG would have taken the cake. Having complete Light Control, along with a small screen really makes it all quite the no brainer as far as I'm concerned. But that's me.


Thanks for your detailed response. I have no screen so I can choose the best match to whatever projector. My wall color is a dark mustard and white ceiling but that can be changed for the HT area no problem. My screen size will prob be a max of 110-120 as current wall sconces are in place with closed cell foam insulation in the wall which would make moving them tough. Ceiling height 7'7", viewing distance anywhere up to 17' and projector could be mounted anywhere up to 19' to maximize PQ
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post #470 of 1266 Old 07-01-2010, 08:46 AM
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AVS has a limited amount of used RS10's for 2200? How would that compare with the LG or ae4000? The RS10 reviews were compared to the older versions of the competitors so not sure how it stacks up with the 4000 and LG181
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post #471 of 1266 Old 07-01-2010, 04:13 PM
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Get the JVC. I have had both in my room and at the price offered you would be silly to pass on the JVC. I currently own the LG for reference.
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post #472 of 1266 Old 07-01-2010, 07:01 PM
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Agree with David. As long as you'll never need the higher lumen modes of the LG, the JVC at that price is your best image for dollar spent. The LG image is very similiar to JVC RS10, though not as dark on dark scenes.

My brother owns a Panny, even at a small screen size it's image doesn't pop like the JVC or LG, that's why I recommend against it. And yes, I use a lower lumen mode for my screen size, however that's a real plus as it's conserves lamp life. What hasn't been mentioned here is lamps dim over time, so it's always better to have a PJ with more lumens available. Run it on a lower mode when new and then go to a higher lamp mode if needed as it ages. The JVC and LG offer higher lumens in "best" cinema mode than the competitors. The JVC can't be turned up much farther however if by chance you didn't have light control or were going to use this at times for say a party at another location whereas the LG has the modes and lumens for most any situation. I take my pj out at times for parties elsewhere and am very glad for the various lumen modes and the smooth pixel free image of the LG. Everyone viewing has complimented it's image thus far.

Best regards...
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post #473 of 1266 Old 07-01-2010, 08:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mlang46 View Post

for a living room this might be the best projector to buy because it has a manual iris so you can adjust the output from 1300 to 450 lumens The killer for me is no anamorphic support. I just hate those black bars

dont people just project them above and below of actual screen onto black wall, allowing movie image to fill the acutall screen?
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post #474 of 1266 Old 07-02-2010, 07:24 AM
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AVS has a limited amount of used RS10's for 2200? How would that compare with the LG or ae4000? The RS10 reviews were compared to the older versions of the competitors so not sure how it stacks up with the 4000 and LG181

All in all, and has been stated on this thread by others, the JVC RS10 is a overall superior unit than the LG, and much more so than the Panny.

As I said, if price is taken out of the decision...and having a decidedly higher lumen level is not required, the JVC is the superior choice.

But as also said, a 100" screen make many things equalize out. Optimizing on all points is all that is required to make any of the aforementioned perform above expectations.

And that means the Screen (size and reflective properties) MUST play every bit as important a part in the equation as the Projector.

To quote James T. Kirk;
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post #475 of 1266 Old 07-02-2010, 07:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ooms View Post

dont people just project them above and below of actual screen onto black wall, allowing movie image to fill the acutall screen?

Yes, that's a solution many employ. Projectors that have features such a Powered Zoom & Lens Shift, and especially Lens Memory take much or all of the chore out maintaining a "Constant Image Height" across both 16:9 and 2.40:1 formats.

The biggest issue all such solutions present is that when screen sizes go up, the degree of image "Over shoot" at the top and bottom of the Screen also increases. If one does NOT have a solid black wall, or does not own a PJ that does a good job of masking (or projecting) Black in the unused portion of the Screen when a 2.40:1 image is zoomed out to fit the vertical height parameters, that unused portion can often be quite noticeable and distracting. While one can increase Screen Border width Top & Bottom on a smaller sized screen to absorb such, trying to mask off 12" to 16" of the same, Top & Bottom..., is not nearly so easily done. Now if everyone would paint their Screen wall a dark, Flat sheen'ed color...this would cease to be an issue. So far, that's the exception rather than the rule.

The Mitsubushi HC6800 has not been mentioned so far, (...primarily because it's not SXRD or Lycos...) but it too is a VERY bright, 1080p unit with 35k:1 contrast, fully powered Zoom-Lens Shift, and it only costs $1600.00.

At 110" and showing 1080p content, the extremely small degree of image structure from the LCD panels is not noticeable from any distance beyond 4' - 5' from the Screen.

To quote James T. Kirk;
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post #476 of 1266 Old 07-02-2010, 10:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

Yes, that's a solution many employ. Projectors that have features such a Powered Zoom & Lens Shift, and especially Lens Memory take much or all of the chore out maintaining a "Constant Image Height" across both 16:9 and 2.40:1 formats.

The biggest issue all such solutions present is that when screen sizes go up, the degree of image "Over shoot" at the top and bottom of the Screen also increases. If one does NOT have a solid black wall, or does not own a PJ that does a good job of masking (or projecting) Black in the unused portion of the Screen when a 2.40:1 image is zoomed out to fit the vertical height parameters, that unused portion can often be quite noticeable and distracting. While one can increase Screen Border width Top & Bottom on a smaller sized screen to absorb such, trying to mask off 12" to 16" of the same, Top & Bottom..., is not nearly so easily done. Now if everyone would paint their Screen wall a dark, Flat sheen'ed color...this would cease to be an issue. So far, that's the exception rather than the rule.

The Mitsubushi HC6800 has not been mentioned so far, (...primarily because it's not SXRD or Lycos...) but it too is a VERY bright, 1080p unit with 35k:1 contrast, fully powered Zoom-Lens Shift, and it only costs $1600.00.

At 110" and showing 1080p content, the extremely small degree of image structure from the LCD panels is not noticeable from any distance beyond 4' - 5' from the Screen.

Where can the HC6800 be bought for $1,600? I have been debating back and forth between this LG or the Mits HC6800. This cost may push me to the HC6800 being I already have a HC6000 and love it.

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post #477 of 1266 Old 07-02-2010, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by rgathright View Post

Where can the HC6800 be bought for $1,600? I have been debating back and forth between this LG or the Mits HC6800. This cost may push me to the HC6800 being I already have a HC6000 and love it.

http://www.theprojectorplace.com/pro...ubishi/hc6800/

It's a Refurb but with Full warranty.

Pretty much a Steal.

Next best price is just over $200.00 more *new*

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post #478 of 1266 Old 07-02-2010, 01:52 PM
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Thanks to Anthony and Mississippi, you can put me down as an LG convert.Its everything they said it was and in my case perhaps a bit more.I got it this am and instant love.its replacing a tried and true Panny ax 200 and hitting against a Goo wall screen at that is 7 feet high and about 17 feet wide.

The picture is simply incredible.The colors are deep and vibrant, the brightness in standard mode if off the chain.I started off doing a demo on LA Confidential bluray ending up finishing the entire movie.

Avatar,while not one of my favorites is as good as Anthony says.Its truly amazing.I ran through Tombstone,Eli,and a few others all looked grand. direct tv content is as good as any hdtv in my house.I cannot believe I have this level of quality, pop,brightness and detail at this size, at this price point.

Mississippi says it gets better with silver mix or some combo.I find it hard to believe it can get any better but I trust that he would know.

I have had The Runco 750,Sony hs10,Dreamvision original dlp,panny ax 100, 200,and an Epson cinema 400.While I enjoyed them all I havent been this giddy and said wow this many times in one day since my very first pj.

In summary, its a heck of a deal for the really big screen enthusiast.I will send a more detailed resview after the holday weekend.But this is the real deal and simply a great projector if you are doing 120 inches or more.

Heavywait
Frankfort,Il
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post #479 of 1266 Old 07-02-2010, 02:18 PM
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so would the LG be overkill for a 90" screen?
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post #480 of 1266 Old 07-02-2010, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by ooms View Post

so would the LG be overkill for a 90" screen?

I'd like to know that too but more in a 100" range. I will be installing in the living room and during the day I am not crazy about a cave during football season.

"Half the world is looking for Jesus, and the other half is looking for more bass..."
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Reply Digital Projectors - Under $3,000 USD MSRP

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