Blu-ray and 720p. Where's the pop? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 43 Old 01-06-2010, 05:13 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Star Wars Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 91
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
My 480p projector died and I'm looking to upgrade to 1080p most likely. While I'm waiting for room in my budget to allow me to make that $1000+ purchase my brother loaned me his LCD 720p Sanyo. I also recently purchased a Blu-ray player.

Last night I hooked everything up via HDMI and the results were underwhelming to say the least. Granted the picture was sharp but I didn't see the pop that I see on the HDTVs at Best Buy. I'm talking about how people look like they're in the same room as you.

I'm just wondering if this is because I'm watching on 720p instead of 1080p, is it the source material (I tested 3 Blu-rays JJ Abrams Star Trek, Harry Potter Half Blood Prince, and Night at the Museum 2), or is the the difference between the HDTVs and projectors?

Now I want to see a 1080p projector's image before I spend that kind of money because what I saw was only marginally better than my 480p Infocus IN72.
Star Wars Guy is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 43 Old 01-06-2010, 05:38 AM
Member
 
bri-zoll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 21
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I think pop comes more from the projector's image quality than DVD vs BR. BR gets you higher resolution, bit rate, better audio.

I recently upgraded from Optoma H31 (480P) to Epson 8100 (1080P). With the same DVD (LOTR: Rerturn of the King) and player (xbox360) there's no comparison in 'pop'. I actually didn't enjoy viewing on my Optoma anymore (granted it's an older 480P with 1800 hrs), but on the Epson it was amazing.

I just got a BR player as well (Panny 60 something), and the largest improvement was getting the new proj, not the BR player. Of course it completely depends on the source material, my LOTR disk (extended version) is probably the best a DVD can look.

Don't get me wrong, BR's are very sharp, but it wasn't the night/day difference like the new projector.

You're on the right track, shop for the best 1080P projector for you and you'll be happy.
bri-zoll is offline  
post #3 of 43 Old 01-06-2010, 06:07 AM
Senior Member
 
cybe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Chandler, AZ
Posts: 245
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
didn't see the pop that I see on the HDTVs at Best Buy.

Viewing distance and contrast are factors here
cybe is offline  
 
post #4 of 43 Old 01-06-2010, 06:45 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Star Wars Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 91
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
My seating distance is around 12 feet. I'll have to play around with the contrast to see what that does.

Am I being realistic with my expectations? I don't see the pop I spoke about above when I see a movie on a digital projector at the theaters either like I do on the HDTVs. But I read all of these reviews of people who have the new 1080p projectors and they say how awesome everything looks and I'm starting to think maybe the full upgrade won't be worth it to me. I know watching football on my 720p tv with the HD signal has the pop.
Star Wars Guy is offline  
post #5 of 43 Old 01-06-2010, 06:52 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
SKoprowski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Canton, OH
Posts: 1,483
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 12
You calibrations must be way off. Blu-ray with my Hitachi 720p projector is significantly better then sd-dvd. There is a lot of "pop" in the image quality with my system. I am sitting 15 feet away from a 92" screen. I really don't think the difference in PQ between 720p and 1080p is really the diference of resolution- I think most people are seeing the better black levels, contrast and shadow detail that the new 1080p projectors offer over the 720p projectors.

I am willing to bet if Epson made a 720p panel with the same tech and optics as the C2Fine 1080p panels, you would not notice as much of a difference between the two. Matter of fact, that may be why we never saw C2Fine tech available in 720p lcd home theater projectors.

NE Ohio HT Nutt
SKoprowski is offline  
post #6 of 43 Old 01-06-2010, 07:45 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
imjay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,203
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 10
The larger the screen the more the lines of resolution are stretched to fill that space. To my eyeballs, the smaller display the tighter the lines of resolution and so the sharper the image and as the display size increases and the same number of lines of resolution are being displayed then there may be a slightly less sharp feel of the picture.

I always see a bit less resolution and sharpness in a theater with a 40 ft or larger image but that minimal loss of "pop" is more than compensated for by the "WOW" of a theater sized visual experience which NONE of those little TVs at BestBuy can deliver.

It's like someone saying that their 50 inch TV image has more "pop" than a 120 in. or larger Home Theater screen - well, the former is a little television that can't deliver a Theater in the Home experience while the latter has everyone in the room going "WOW, this is just like being at the movies!!"

When we bought our 56 inch 1080p TV a couple of years ago it was top-of-the-line and some aspects of its image seem a bit brighter/sharper side-by-side to our projection screen but the PJ SO much more of a Theater view and, overall, that TV just ain't in the same visual league.

BTW - since you haven't bought anything yet wait til the CES show is over this week and add 3D to your buying criteria.
Best of Luck!
imjay is offline  
post #7 of 43 Old 01-06-2010, 02:25 PM
Senior Member
 
convexion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: The Mojave
Posts: 427
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
If you're looking for "pop" then DLP might be a better choice for you.
convexion is offline  
post #8 of 43 Old 01-06-2010, 02:30 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
ditch-digger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: In the middle of the woods New Hampshire
Posts: 1,121
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
POP..!!!!!!!!


lcd 6100

ditch-digger is offline  
post #9 of 43 Old 01-06-2010, 05:38 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
cneely8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,526
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by imjay View Post


It's like someone saying that their 50 inch TV image has more "pop" than a 120 in. or larger Home Theater screen - well, the former is a little television that can't deliver a Theater in the Home experience "

I'm not disagreeing, as I lust after a projector sometime in 2010, but I had to laugh at the state we've come to - 50 inch TV's are considered "little."

Pretty funny when 5 years ago my wife and I thought our 50 inch DLP might be too big...
cneely8 is offline  
post #10 of 43 Old 01-06-2010, 06:24 PM
Member
 
DamoSyzygy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 82
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Also consider the refresh rates of many of the new tv's also.
My folks just bought a Samsung LED TV a few weeks back, and the 120Hz rate (I think its 120...) certainly made the images appear almost 3D.
DamoSyzygy is offline  
post #11 of 43 Old 01-06-2010, 06:29 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Favelle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Victoria, BC, Canada
Posts: 3,795
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 12
I want my Blu-ray experience to look like FILM. In that case, I hope it doesn't "pop". I'll leave that to the overblown contrast beasts at Best Buy. Sure fire way to ruin a perfectly good image.

In terms of LFE, size does matter!
Favelle is offline  
post #12 of 43 Old 01-07-2010, 02:26 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Star Wars Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 91
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Played with the contrast but that didn't do it. I did select one of the other viewing modes and the picture does look better. I'll just deal until I get my new one and be grateful for a brother who would loan me his until that time.
Star Wars Guy is offline  
post #13 of 43 Old 01-07-2010, 05:08 PM
Member
 
KO Abear's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Brusly, Louisiana (just upriver from New Orleans)
Posts: 173
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by cneely8 View Post

I'm not disagreeing, as I lust after a projector sometime in 2010, but I had to laugh at the state we've come to - 50 inch TV's are considered "little."

Pretty funny when 5 years ago my wife and I thought our 50 inch DLP might be too big...

You still measure your TV in "inches"? Thats so cute!
KO Abear is offline  
post #14 of 43 Old 01-07-2010, 05:28 PM
Member
 
Jimakros's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Athens
Posts: 120
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
"pop" is about BRIGHTNESS,sharpness and ANSI contrast.
If your projector is not bright enough forget about "pop".TV's ,especially LCD's are very bright compared to a projector,thats what is impressing you at
the store.
Then,1080 p downscaled will not look good.You might try to download some 720p stuff,it will probably look better on the 720 projector.Thirdly,like it was already mentioned,DLP has more of a"pop" factor than LCD due to higher ANSI contrast.
Jimakros is offline  
post #15 of 43 Old 01-07-2010, 07:15 PM
Member
 
DamonG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Crosby, TX
Posts: 102
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by KO Abear View Post

You still measure your TV in "inches"? Thats so cute!

Quote stolen for future use!!
DamonG is offline  
post #16 of 43 Old 01-07-2010, 07:22 PM
Advanced Member
 
btiltman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Melbourne Australia
Posts: 710
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Star Wars Guy View Post

Played with the contrast but that didn't do it. I did select one of the other viewing modes and the picture does look better. I'll just deal until I get my new one and be grateful for a brother who would loan me his until that time.

Its more likely to be the brightness set too high and/or the brightness level set wrong in player. But you need to do at least a minimal all round calibration with a THX dvd disk's setup option before evaluating critically.
btiltman is offline  
post #17 of 43 Old 01-07-2010, 08:00 PM
Member
 
ghost271's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 159
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Im running a Sanyo Z-5 720p projector hooked up to my Panny BR player, sitting at 12' away, viewing a 100" screen. I see plenty of 'pop' when watching my movies and so has eveyone else thats watched movies in the theater. You should see how many hours he has on the bulb as well, because if its getting close to the end of its life, it won't be producing enough light to throw a good image. I'm now seriously considering buying the Panasonic AE4000 for $2000 instead of a Plasma or LED. With a screen my size I will surely see a major improvement in picture quality going from 720 to 1080.

I currently have a 51" HD RPTV and it feels really small to watch now. Most people who have a HDTV now with a HTIB speaker setup claim to have a Home Theater. 10 years ago that would be a valid claim. Today everybody has a HT, but the real enthusiasts with Projectors and dedicated rooms have Home 'Cinemas' !
ghost271 is offline  
post #18 of 43 Old 01-07-2010, 08:35 PM
Advanced Member
 
novasol's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: East Coast, Great White North
Posts: 559
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by DamoSyzygy View Post

Also consider the refresh rates of many of the new tv's also.
My folks just bought a Samsung LED TV a few weeks back, and the 120Hz rate (I think its 120...) certainly made the images appear almost 3D.

This. The sets may be displaying 120hz 200Hz and giving you that "in the same room" feel. If so, and this is what you like, then you'll need to get a pj that does FI at 120Hz.
novasol is offline  
post #19 of 43 Old 01-08-2010, 04:28 AM
Senior Member
 
DavidVTHokie's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Apex, NC
Posts: 227
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 10
How old is the Sanyo? The bulb is probably not as bright as it used to be when new either. Certainly is the case with me and my Sanyo Z2.

-DavidVTHokie
DavidVTHokie is offline  
post #20 of 43 Old 01-08-2010, 07:08 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Star Wars Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 91
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
The Sanyo is 4 years old, but I don't know how many hours are on the bulb. I do notice that's it's not quite as bright as what my IN72 was, so that could very well be one of the reasons. With that being said, I did play around with the THX video calibration a bit, but not a whole lot. There were a few things I had to tweak. The biggest difference that I've noticed is changing the video setting from Natural to Dynamic. I also did sit down and watched a whole movie with my daughter last night - Harry Potter 6, and did notice more of a pop than I have before. This was probably a combination of a lot of factors (time of day, changing the mode, and a little calibration). I'm happy with it, but I guess my expecatations were a bit high.

Thanks for all the tips.
Star Wars Guy is offline  
post #21 of 43 Old 01-08-2010, 07:38 AM
Advanced Member
 
par4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 968
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by novasol View Post

This. The sets may be displaying 120hz 200Hz and giving you that "in the same room" feel. If so, and this is what you like, then you'll need to get a pj that does FI at 120Hz.

Yes, the FI (frame interpolation) can produce some that 3-d like pop, although in an artificial guise (and sometimes bring with it some nasty artifacts, much more visible on the big projection screens as opposed to the smaller sets). But for the most part, if you're looking for "the pop", DLP with its higher native contrast (unaided by the dreaded dynamic iris) seems to provide more of that particular characteristic, all other things being equal (dark room, proper screen and setup, etc.).
par4 is offline  
post #22 of 43 Old 01-08-2010, 07:10 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
cneely8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,526
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by ko abear View Post

you still measure your tv in "inches"? Thats so cute! :d

awesome!
cneely8 is offline  
post #23 of 43 Old 01-08-2010, 07:50 PM
Member
 
detached's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 44
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Is this the Sanyo Z4 or close to it? To be honest I wasn't happy with any of the presets on my Z4 and thought about returning it when I bought it.

My custom settings are way different now than what they had dialed in and I'm much happier with the image. Just last night, I was playing around and set them back on the various defaults just to see what the difference was and It was profound.

My problem I have with it was the brightness of the image. This is my preference but I would much rather have a bright vivid image and sacrifice a little on black levels than have a dull image with "better" blacks. I've found that other than the darkest of dark scenes, like ones in space or a cave or something, the blacks actually look even more black because of an increase in perceived contrast due to other parts of the image being brighter.

But to do this I keep the lamp on normal mode with the Iris open. Maybe if I
had a high gain screen, I could dial it down a notch and have it all. But even with all this, I find the black levels satisfying.

Having fine tuned it to my liking, I finally got the "PoP" you were talking about out of my projector which is a matter of contrast and brightness rather than the number of pixels which is just for detail.

BB by the way usually has the brightness and contrast settings cranked to the ceiling because of all the bright lights in that place. So the showroom floor isn't the best place to judge what kind of picture it can produce.
detached is offline  
post #24 of 43 Old 01-09-2010, 07:10 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Star Wars Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 91
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
It's the Z3.
Star Wars Guy is offline  
post #25 of 43 Old 01-09-2010, 10:44 AM
Advanced Member
 
zryder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: St Paul MN
Posts: 528
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by KO Abear View Post

You still measure your TV in "inches"? Thats so cute!

New signature! thanks!!!

"The satisfaction of a great price will be overshadowed by the bitterness of poor quality."

Quote:
Originally Posted by KO Abear
You still measure your TV in "inches"? Thats so cute! :D
zryder is offline  
post #26 of 43 Old 01-09-2010, 04:49 PM
Senior Member
 
ArtT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Beautiful South Jersey, USA
Posts: 343
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Before you give up on being "unpopped", couple things...
the old Sanyo projectors ( i know z2 for sure, so maybe z3 also) do not correctly handshake w/ the hdmi standards today so you may be getting a downsized 480p image. When it comes to older devices; if the hdmi doesnt' correctly handshake, the best signal a bluray player will send is 480p for dvd's and 720 for bluray. I know this is the case with my z2 and my new samsung 1600 bluray player. The player will send 720p over component cable, though; so you should probably try this. I can say that my z2 most definetely had "pop" with bluray disks...far superior to upscaled dvd's.
Finally, have you confirmed that the player is set to put out a 720p signal?
Hope this helps.
art

Art T
ArtT is offline  
post #27 of 43 Old 01-09-2010, 05:23 PM
Senior Member
 
PerryH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 377
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 47 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Star Wars Guy View Post

Last night I hooked everything up via HDMI and the results were underwhelming to say the least. Granted the picture was sharp but I didn't see the pop that I see on the HDTVs at Best Buy. I'm talking about how people look like they're in the same room as you.

Not sure, but you may be seeing TVs at Best Buy with the Dejudder processing turned on. This will make a movie look like it was filmed with a camcorder - or like a soap opera. My TV has this feature, but I turn it off completely as the resulting picture is weird and distracting. If this is indeed what you are talking about... trust me, it is way overrated and you won't miss it.
PerryH is offline  
post #28 of 43 Old 01-10-2010, 08:01 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Star Wars Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 91
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtT View Post

Finally, have you confirmed that the player is set to put out a 720p signal?
Hope this helps.
art

The setup on the Magnavox player shows HDMI output set to Auto and that setting is grayed out. The only output setting that I can change is the Component setting and that goes from 480i up to 1080i, but not 1080p, which I found surprising.

Where I have the projector calibrated at now, I think the picture quality matches anything I see in the theaters. I do see more of a pop of people being, as someone put it, "3-D like", but I also always found that a little odd when I first saw Blu-rays in the stores. I thought that was the way they were 'suppose' to look and thought my hardware was not showing it correctly.

I'm quite happy with the current results, however, I'm still hoping to get my true replacement projector sometime in the next few months - which at this point I'm looking at either the BenQ W1000 or the Optoma HD20.
Star Wars Guy is offline  
post #29 of 43 Old 01-10-2010, 08:37 AM
Senior Member
 
ArtT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Beautiful South Jersey, USA
Posts: 343
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
The greyed out my bet means that you're not handshaking so the hdmi is defaulting to a low setting. You'll likely get the best picture w/ bluray over component set to 720p, which is the native resolution of the z3.

Art T
ArtT is offline  
post #30 of 43 Old 01-10-2010, 08:59 AM
Senior Member
 
reikoshea's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 221
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 12
I thought when the handshake failed it defaulted to 720p to prevent people ripping 1080p over hdmi.
reikoshea is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Digital Projectors - Under $3,000 USD MSRP

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off