Official Viewsonic Pro8100 1080p Projector Thread - Part 2 - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 146 Old 04-26-2010, 07:07 AM
 
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Originally Posted by DaGamePimp View Post


I'll leave your thread now and let the owners get back to their enjoyment, I honestly only popped in to see how the issues were coming on the latest units being shipped out.

Regards,
Jason

Still arguing about the 3800?
There must be a Mits thread somewhere for 3800 owners?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...74443&page=147 Here it is!
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post #92 of 146 Old 04-26-2010, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by floridapoolboy View Post

Still arguing about the 3800?
There must be a Mits thread somewhere for 3800 owners?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...74443&page=147 Here it is!


This has nothing to do with any projector... your above comment was uncalled for. This is exactly the type of behavior that I was talking about, people making comments/opinions about electronics into something personal .

Please show me the rule that states one has to own the product of the thread they are commenting in or they have no right to post, also please make sure you remember that on all of your future posts or somebody might show you the door and be so kind as to point out the obvious in an attempt to make you look ignorant.

Now can we please let this go, I have tried 3 times now yet some of you keep it going, if you wish me out of your 'owners' thread then please refrain from talking to me or about me!

I will also apologize one last time for my disruption of this thread, it was never my intent. I'm Sorry!

Thank You,
Jason
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post #93 of 146 Old 04-26-2010, 02:23 PM
 
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Lighten up there, gamepimp... this is, after all, an owners thread. If you insist on popping in touting the superiority of a rival pj then you'll have to expect we owners will not be pleased! Regardless of your satisfaction with an entry level DLP machine most Pro8100 owners would disagree that it is a better pj, period. I linked the Mits thread as an FYI, notice I don't go over there and brag about my Viewsonic!
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post #94 of 146 Old 04-26-2010, 03:48 PM
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Hey Meret,

It seems that the HB is more common on the new build projectors than may have been thought. When I weighed the risks/rewards of going ahead with the purchase of a Pro8100, I considered the chances of getting a projector with HB small. I figured it was just a few people who may be getting unlucky and/or had something going on in their home's wiring that may be causing the HB. Now that I have a unit with HB and almost everyone who has answered the survey and has a new unit, has the HB, it seems much more common than I had thought. I am wondering if the HB issue should be moved to the common problems (on new units) area of the initial description in this post?
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post #95 of 146 Old 04-26-2010, 03:49 PM
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To anyone who hasn't seen the questionnaire yet, or who has seen it but has yet to fill it out, please fill out the VS Pro8100 owner's questionnaire here http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1244932
Thanks
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post #96 of 146 Old 04-29-2010, 01:51 AM
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http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...6#post18556916

Review of the Pro8100 vs. the HC3800.
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post #97 of 146 Old 04-29-2010, 06:51 AM
 
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Jeeze, yet another HC3800 plug. Suffice it to say that my 8100 puts up a far better image than any of those screen shots show. Where is Bouda when we need him... ;-)

What the heck, I'll do it...
http://www.projectorreviews.com/view...agequality.php

http://www.projectorreviews.com/mits...3800/image.php

Note the shots of Gandalf and Arwen, which look better... Viewsonic!
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post #98 of 146 Old 04-29-2010, 08:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KnightRT View Post

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...6#post18556916

Review of the Pro8100 vs. the HC3800.

Completely irrelevant and inaccurate review. Heck, my 7yr old Canon 1024x768 LCD projector looked better than those screens.

It also makes me question what your 3800 actually looks like if you "calibrated" both projectors cause you certainly have some issues with either your hardware, software or eyes.

I'm really curious as to why people come on a Pro8100 thread to hype the Mits and bash the 8100; are you guys really that insecure about purchasing a projector that shuts down?
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post #99 of 146 Old 04-29-2010, 10:02 AM
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I'll be posting a few notes about the screenshots in the thread with the comparison. In brief, there are two issues here:

1) The point of the shots is to provide a rough comparison of black levels and contrast. Color balance, sharpness, and so on would not be fairly represented. As well, my 40D can't capture the full dynamic range of any projector, so differences will be inherently exaggerated. In most cases, the Pro8100 isn't quite as bad as it appears.

2) These are comparative screenshots with two projectors playing simultaneously. Screenshots will not look the same as if only a single projector was playing. The camera chose an exposure and white balance that was a compromise between the two, which is why the Pro8100 looks slightly red at times and the HC3800 slightly yellowish. Likewise, the exposure was automatically set at a compromise point. If the HC3800 was slightly less bright than the Pro8100 (the two seem to trade places scene by scene for whatever reason; different irises, I guess), that would also exaggerate the black level difference.

The point of posting this review was to give a counterpoint to the reputation the Pro8100 seems to have amassed based on a handful of non-professional opinions. I went through three Pro8100s. All of them have been consistent in image quality, and I am completely confident I've seen the full gamut of their abilities.

I also work as a graphic designer and a photographer. Displays and imaging are very much my bailiwick. Unless this HC3800 is some kind of dramatic aberration, I stand by my written notes.
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post #100 of 146 Old 04-29-2010, 10:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KnightRT View Post

I'll be posting a few notes about the screenshots in the thread with the comparison. In brief, there are two issues here:

1) The point of the shots is to provide a rough comparison of black levels and contrast. Color balance, sharpness, and so on would not be fairly represented. As well, my 40D can't capture the full dynamic range of any projector, so differences will be inherently exaggerated. In most cases, the Pro8100 isn't quite as bad as it appears.

2) These are comparative screenshots with two projectors playing simultaneously. Screenshots will not look the same as if only a single projector was playing. The camera chose an exposure and white balance that was a compromise between the two, which is why the Pro8100 looks slightly red at times and the HC3800 slightly yellowish. Likewise, the exposure was automatically set at a compromise point. If the HC3800 was slightly less bright than the Pro8100 (the two seem to trade places scene by scene for whatever reason; different irises, I guess), that would also exaggerate the black level difference.

The point of posting this review was to give a counterpoint to the reputation the Pro8100 seems to have amassed based on a handful of non-professional opinions. I went through three Pro8100s. All of them have been consistent in image quality, and I am completely confident I've seen the full gamut of their abilities.

I also work as a graphic designer and a photographer. Displays and imaging are very much my bailiwick. Unless this HC3800 is some kind of dramatic aberration, I stand by my written notes.

In actuallity, the whole point of this review is tht its useless. In one thread you state that you have an i1D2 but calibration software looks too "complicated". Thats rather interesting considering "Displays and imaging are very much my bailiwick" How on earth can you be confident that you've seen the full gamut of their abilities without a calibration?

You work as a photographer yet your using your 40D in auto exposure/auto wb? Come on, get real.

Seriously, your screen shots look like crap and certainly dont look anything like I see, even considering all the variables; they are washed out, have inaccurite color and a color cast to them. Pretty poor example for whatever your trying to show.

Here is a screenshot taken on a calibrated 8100; shot on a D300, manual mode and manual wb. No post processing was applied other than croping and all in camera settings turned off. Shot raw and converted to a jpeg using ACR/PS CS4 and sRGB...



If you want to do a "review" that holds any water at all then learn to calibrate and learn how to use your camera in manual mode. Otherwise, your entitled to your "opinion".
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post #101 of 146 Old 04-29-2010, 11:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian McKay View Post

In one thread you state that you have an i1D2 but calibration software looks too "complicated".

Why are you "quoting" a word that I didn't say?

Calibration probably would improve the color balance of the Pro8100. It would do nothing for black levels and contrast, and it'd lower the brightness even further below what's already inadequate to me. In the context of my comparison, calibration would not have changed the result.
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You work as a photographer yet your using your 40D in auto exposure/auto wb?

You're a fool for saying that. I'd be happy to send you the original raw files.
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Seriously, your screen shots look like crap and certainly dont look anything like I see, even considering all the variables; they are washed out, have inaccurite color and a color cast to them.

I don't know how much more clear I can be: compared to the HC3800, the Pro8100 is washed out and does have inaccurate color. The examples are very much how the two appeared in real life, though as before, somewhat exaggerated.
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Here is a screenshot taken on a calibrated 8100; shot on a D300, manual mode and manual wb.

Screenshots I've taken of the Pro8100 alone look like that. Again, it's when you line up the two side by side that the differences are apparent.

Seriously, go buy an HC3800 from Dell. They've got a 21-day return policy, no restocking fees, and they'll pay for return shipping, or so support told me. Has anyone besides me actually compared the two side by side?
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post #102 of 146 Old 04-29-2010, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by DaGamePimp View Post


Please show me the rule that states one has to own the product of the thread they are commenting in or they have no right to post,
Jason

Jason, there certainly is no rule, however, you must admit, it helps ..

Oddball: Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?

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post #103 of 146 Old 04-29-2010, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Brian McKay View Post

In actuallity, the whole point of this review is tht its useless. In one thread you state that you have an i1D2 but calibration software looks too "complicated". Thats rather interesting considering "Displays and imaging are very much my bailiwick" How on earth can you be confident that you've seen the full gamut of their abilities without a calibration?

You work as a photographer yet your using your 40D in auto exposure/auto wb? Come on, get real.

Seriously, your screen shots look like crap and certainly dont look anything like I see, even considering all the variables; they are washed out, have inaccurite color and a color cast to them. Pretty poor example for whatever your trying to show.

Here is a screenshot taken on a calibrated 8100; shot on a D300, manual mode and manual wb. No post processing was applied other than croping and all in camera settings turned off. Shot raw and converted to a jpeg using ACR/PS CS4 and sRGB...

If you want to do a "review" that holds any water at all then learn to calibrate and learn how to use your camera in manual mode. Otherwise, your entitled to your "opinion".

You tell 'em Brian ..

Oddball: Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?

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post #104 of 146 Old 04-29-2010, 11:34 AM
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I've been an advanced amature photographer for over 40 years. Although I have always taken screen shots with a large grain of salt, I'm tempted to break out my Nikon D-90 and tripod and Avatar BD tonight and post some shots of my pro8100 in action and use some of the more difficult scenes ...

Oddball: Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?

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post #105 of 146 Old 04-29-2010, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KnightRT View Post

Why are you "quoting" a word that I didn't say?

Calibration probably would improve the color balance of the Pro8100. It would do nothing for black levels and contrast, and it'd lower the brightness even further below what's already inadequate to me. In the context of my comparison, calibration would not have changed the result.

I appologise, it wasn't complicated it was intimidating...

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How did you calibrate? I have an Eye-One Display 2. I'm tempted to just tell the software to pretend it's an LCD, the calibration guides I've seen here are a bit intimidating.

And a proper calibration would do nothing for for black level and contrast? Umm, yeah okay.

No, I have not seen them side/side but I have seen a 3800 (2 days ago actually). I thought it threw a really nice picture. And of course its hard to do a comparison from memory but I am pretty familiar with the 8100 by now; the 3800 has better blacks, without a doubt however the 8100 has better shadow detail and (I wouldnt say better) but more accurate color. The funny part was we couldn't finish watching the movie (Startrek) as the 3800 kept shutting off.

Look, I have no problem that you (and lots of others) like the 3800 but your so called review and screenshots are nothing more that your opinion. The issue isn't with you giving that opinion but the way that its presented as facts. You have an issue with the 8100 and after 3 units, I would as well. Your results and how you obtained them are seriously flawed which makes your review invalid.


Anyway, sorry for wasting the bandwidth on this but these so-called reviews do nothing but give people false information.
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post #106 of 146 Old 04-29-2010, 11:58 AM
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Jason, there certainly is no rule, however, you must admit, it helps ..

Hehe, indeed it does but here we have an 'owner' that did a direct side by side as I was just accused of NOT doing and we still have a similar outcome .

----------

Guys take it easy here, seriously. I suggested he not post his review in 'your' threads last night when he posted it in the 3800 thread first because I knew this would be the outcome (based upon my enthralling but brief experience in this thread ). I also just suggested that he remove it and start his own new thread so as to not further disrupt your threads.

Jason
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post #107 of 146 Old 04-29-2010, 12:00 PM
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And a proper calibration would do nothing for for black level and contrast? Umm, yeah okay.

Yes, exactly. ANSI contrast numbers don't improve with calibration. Nor does black level. If they did, there wouldn't be any point preferring one physical hardware model to another.
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No, I have not seen them side/side

That's right, you haven't. You dismiss my comparison and you've never bothered to make one. That's the status quo here, is it not? I've been dogpiled by a dozen people with zero firsthand experience.

What flawed results did I have? Two projectors side by side, the same brightness, the Pro8100 optimally configured short of a hardware colorimeter (which wouldn't even be possible if, god forbid, I had a BD player connected to it instead of an HTPC), running from the same source? That's not good enough? How would you do it?

If you don't like the my screenshots, blame Canon. I didn't make the camera. They're undoctored and the best I could do given the contrast and and color differences of the two units. I've got dozens of shots; which 'opinion' would you like?

Frankly, I'm staggered by the closemindedness in this thread and the other. You guys bought this thing because it was supposed to be a bargain. If there's something genuinely better for the same price, would you not want to know? Did you really think this mid-2008 projector would sit on top of the heap forever?
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post #108 of 146 Old 04-29-2010, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by DaGamePimp View Post


Guys take it easy here, seriously. I suggested he not post his review in 'your' threads last night when he posted it in the 3800 thread first because I knew this would be the outcome (based upon my enthralling but brief experience in this thread ). I also just suggested that he remove it and start his own new thread so as to not further disrupt your threads.

Jason

I'm all for comparisons. I think the outcry here is based on just how awful the pro8100 shots look next to the Mits. I've done side by sides on the pro8100 myself and never, ever did it not at least hold it's own. No, I've not A/B'ed it next to the Mits, but I have against the Epson 8100 and the Panasonic PT-AE4000, both well rated units. This latest comparison is like day and night. It makes the 8100 look like poop. And that's just not the case. The shots have stirred up a little tempest in a teapot, for sure. When I logged on this morning and took a look, I had to pick my jaw up off the floor. This was the day after I finally watched Avatar BD and was just slapping myself on the back for having such an incredible display.

Oddball: Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?

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post #109 of 146 Old 04-29-2010, 12:26 PM
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mgkdragn,

Oh I get exactly what you are saying and I knew it would stir up trouble. I do agree that the screen shots are not an accurate representation of what each unit can do on its own but I don't think that is what KnightRT was aiming for. Consider that while having both projectors running side by side there are certainly image altering issues but both units are being altered in kind. I know for a fact that the Pro8100 looks better than those shots but at the same time so does the HC3800 . While I agree the comparison has its flaws and yes the pro8100 is not that washed out looking on its own there is still some validity to the basic variances that are seen here and anyone trying to say otherwise is simply ignoring the obvious.

With that said I still think it best that this comparison have its own thread .

Jason
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post #110 of 146 Old 04-29-2010, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KnightRT View Post


Frankly, I'm staggered by the closemindedness in this thread and the other. You guys bought this thing because it was supposed to be a bargain. If there's something genuinely better for the same price, would you not want to know? Did you really think this mid-2008 projector would sit on top of the heap forever?

Well, your review post almost seemed like an attack. In a way, you threw down the gauntlet, so what did you expect a group of relatively happy owners to do....?? Praise you for slamming our baby..?? It's kinda like saying.. here's a shot of my wife the Playboy centerfold and next to it is .. well, you get the picture.. (pun intended)

The Mitsubishi is a great unit.. if you get a good one. The same can be said of the VS. I could not place the Mits in my theater room in any way shape or form. To me, that's it's main downside.

BTW.. I don't think it was ever on the top of the heap. I wish I could afford the top of the heap... or even the second from the top..

Oddball: Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?

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post #111 of 146 Old 04-29-2010, 01:06 PM
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When every other review is couched in sentiments like 'it used to be $5000!' and 'better than anything under $2000,' whatever suggests otherwise will sound like an attack. There are areas the Pro8100 excels, and I felt I gave credit where it was due, but it simply isn't the end-all in picture quality that some here have made it out to be. There are definite and even preferable alternatives if placement flexibility isn't a priority, and I don't feel that's been made clear to the innumerable lurkers who read these threads.
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post #112 of 146 Old 04-29-2010, 09:38 PM
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Is this a common (and fixable) issue? Keep in mind, I drew a solid black line in mspaint.



I probably shouldn't worry too much about it because my current 8100, as well as my previous warranty returned unit, have that issue, as well as HB and uneven color distribution (polarizer?) I'll probably just return this one as well.
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post #113 of 146 Old 04-29-2010, 10:01 PM
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SFitkin,

There's Convergence on 3LCD and C.A. possible on any digital projector (Chromatic Aberration from the lens), either can cause that type of effect and usually neither are 'fixable'. Sometimes on digital projectors using extreme amounts of lens shift can also cause a similar result.

Jason
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post #114 of 146 Old 04-30-2010, 08:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KnightRT View Post

When every other review is couched in sentiments like 'it used to be $5000!' and 'better than anything under $2000,' whatever suggests otherwise will sound like an attack. There are areas the Pro8100 excels, and I felt I gave credit where it was due, but it simply isn't the end-all in picture quality that some here have made it out to be. There are definite and even preferable alternatives if placement flexibility isn't a priority, and I don't feel that's been made clear to the innumerable lurkers who read these threads.

After having a few beers last night and getting caught up on 24 and Survivor, I'm over my initial shock ... sometimes, we all tend to take things a bit too personally, human nature, you know. I'm sure you did not intend to do a deliberate hatchet job on the pro8100.

Oddball: Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?

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post #115 of 146 Old 04-30-2010, 11:47 AM
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After having a few beers last night and getting caught up on 24 and Survivor, I'm over my initial shock ...

LOL, exactly what I watched as well plus the added "bonus" of Greys Anatomy with my wife :P

I will say that Survivor certainly looks good in HD. I'm also watching The Pacific in HD and its weird to see them fighting over a lot of the same islands that Survivor is filmed on; amazing how they look without a war being fought on them.
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post #116 of 146 Old 05-01-2010, 11:55 AM
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LOL, exactly what I watched as well plus the added "bonus" of Greys Anatomy with my wife :P

I will say that Survivor certainly looks good in HD. I'm also watching The Pacific in HD and its weird to see them fighting over a lot of the same islands that Survivor is filmed on; amazing how they look without a war being fought on them.

Small world. We're forced at our house to watch DVR'ed shows ASAP. Why..?? Frigging Charter who I rent my stinking DVR from, is using old boxes, waiting for new equipment. My MOXI DVR has gone out 4 times in the last couple years. Each time, it took an external drive with it. Charter insists that the replacement DVR should reformat the external and work fine. Not so on my experience. The upshot is, I'm afraid to connect another external drive for fear of losing it eventually. Of course, Charter refuses to make anything right.

Sorry for the rant. Yes, Survivor HD is almost 3-D on the pro8100. And man, I'll miss Amandas eye candy. I cancelled HBO and the rest of the premiums.. decided it was just not worth the money... I'd like to see The Pacific, as well as that new Kervorkian film, but I'll wait. Probably re-connect Showtime when Dexter cranks back up, though.

Oddball: Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?

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post #117 of 146 Old 05-02-2010, 02:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KnightRT View Post


You're a fool for saying that. I'd be happy to send you the original raw files.

What are you trying to say, that you didnt use auto white balance and auto exposure??

Want to measure your subwoofers? check out my dummies guide for a step by step process to Room EQ wizard
http://polaraudio.blogspot.com/2012/01/calibration.html
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post #118 of 146 Old 05-02-2010, 02:40 PM
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This is long over. Besides ur original unedited post made more sense.

In space, no one can hear you scream . . .
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post #119 of 146 Old 05-04-2010, 05:08 PM
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So the real question is will the Viewsonic Pro 8100 have blacker blacks than my 2 year old Vizio LCD?
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post #120 of 146 Old 05-04-2010, 05:20 PM
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You might want to ask over on the main thread here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...35509&page=205

The current problem w/ buying a new one is most seem to suffer from horizontal banding (HB). Some more than others. A few have kept returning them and finally got one w/o the problem. It's a crapshoot but if you do get a good one, I personally don't think you can match it for the price when you consider the entire package. But read a few pages and see what you think.

In space, no one can hear you scream . . .
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