Blu Ray Choice for HC-3800 - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 30 Old 05-05-2010, 09:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Any real world experience on picking out a Blu Ray player that plays well with the Mistubishi HC-3800?

I was hoping for built in wifi, an SD card and USB reader, ability to access the popular streaming sites like Netflix and YouTube and Hulu, and maybe on board storage.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated...

Thanks,

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post #2 of 30 Old 05-05-2010, 11:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dpn View Post

Any real world experience on picking out a Blu Ray player that plays well with the Mistubishi HC-3800?

I was hoping for built in wifi, an SD card and USB reader, ability to access the popular streaming sites like Netflix and YouTube and Hulu, and maybe on board storage.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated...

Thanks,

DPN

You just described an HTPC(Home theater PC)! This is what I use with my PJs and TVs. They'll do all of what you're asking and then some. In-fact I'm posting this from one of them attached to a projector. I suggest you check out that forum. There's a plethora of info on what can be done with an HTPC.
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post #3 of 30 Old 05-06-2010, 06:52 AM
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What's the status of playing Blu-Ray in a Linux HTPC natively?

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post #4 of 30 Old 05-06-2010, 08:02 AM
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I like using a PS3 for blu ray and streaming (internet and home servers) and other uses (photos/videos/music) plus internet browsing on the big screen

I believe they are in short supply at the moment but it's hard to envision paying for limited functionality in a stand alone when you can get more features using the PS3 - plus it is firmware updatable for things like 3D

(Also limited gaming - but wife and friends really like SingStar on the big screen)

You can stream with the wi-fi but I would recommend wired (I use cat 5) for HD material that will show off the projector. You just can't do it justice going wireless. I have had no issue with my HC3800 and the slim ps3 except for the limited hdmi in causes me to have to plug it in when using
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post #5 of 30 Old 05-06-2010, 08:41 AM
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I've always considered the PS3 to be the better buy, except it kind of defeats the idea of an HTPC where I would like to store the BD titles I have. With br-rom prices around $50 now, it is a bit difficult to justify the PS3 if you don't need the game part or use a switcher between HTPC and PS3.

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post #6 of 30 Old 05-06-2010, 10:27 AM
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Hey just remember if you are not using you htpc for gaming you do not need to go over kill on it.
You can buy good motherboards with ati graphics card built in, and they will most likely have audio through hdmi.
you do not need no more than 2gb of ram and 2.5ghz amd dual core processor is more than enough.
If you are using windows try downloading mediaportal much nicer than windows mediacenter.
you should be able to build a htpc for about 350$ 450 if you want a nice computer case.

I will never go back to bluray/dvd players again.
I think there are linux htpc dedicated operating systems, im not use linux so I havnt tried it.
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post #7 of 30 Old 05-06-2010, 10:50 AM
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I haven't played with Linux much lately. Not sure what the status on BR playback is at the moment.

Yup..I'll never own a stand alone BD player! I like the flexibility of the HTPCs.
Windows Media Center using the Media Browser plug-in is just awesome eye candy!

It works quite well and allows you to categorize your collection. I have around 300 Blu rays ripped to drive. Plus another 500 DVDs and TV shows on hard drive.I share this across the network, which allows any of the displays in my home access.

BR movies compressed down to a few Gigs looks just as good playing off hard drive as if you had the physical disc playing. I can't tell the difference visually.
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post #8 of 30 Old 05-06-2010, 10:57 AM
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wow, that's a lot of blu-rays and dvd rips. What are you doing to your rips to get them down to small size without discernible compromise on the quality?

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post #9 of 30 Old 05-06-2010, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tradewinds View Post

wow, that's a lot of blu-rays and dvd rips. What are you doing to your rips to get them down to small size without discernible compromise on the quality?

You have quite a few rippers out there that can do this. One of the simplest is called MakeMKV. There are others, you can find a big thread in the HTPC main section about this ripper technology.

I have a rip of Avatar that is not quite 3 Gbs. Its compressed down to just give two channel stereo but the picture quality is simply AMAZING. I've had a good friend over to compare. He can't tell the difference either. The smaller size makes it much easier to stream over my home network. If you're just using an HTPC with the drives attached to it. You can rip a full copy of your BRs or DVDs and get the benefits of DTS HD or Dolby Digital HD. Those copies are huge though..you'll need some massive storage space to accommodate all that extra info.

Just getting rid of the menu and all the extra crap will save you space, leaving just the movie. Media Player Classic Home cinema will play just about anything out there ripped.
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post #10 of 30 Old 05-06-2010, 11:24 AM
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ya, Is there any surround codec with a small footprint that is preferable? I was hoping Thoggen would be able to support BD by now. But seems that MakeMKV is able to stream from the Disk to VLC. But with an HTPC, I would rather rip to small size with surround audio and store on NFS.

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post #11 of 30 Old 05-07-2010, 12:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joesyah View Post

I have a rip of Avatar that is not quite 3 Gbs. Its compressed down to just give two channel stereo but the picture quality is simply AMAZING. I've had a good friend over to compare. He can't tell the difference either.

Well, Avatar is probably a reference disc, and much of it is animated, so they tend to look good---even DVD versions.

What size screen/PJ are you watching these on?
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post #12 of 30 Old 05-07-2010, 04:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fleaman View Post

Well, Avatar is probably a reference disc, and much of it is animated, so they tend to look good---even DVD versions.

What size screen/PJ are you watching these on?


I use a BenQ W1000 and a Optoma HD65 with a 119 inch screen. I've tested them on a BenQ W6000 as well.

Remember I stated I had 300 BRs ripped? Avatar is just one of many that I would bet money you wouldn't know the difference visually unless I told you. My ripped copy of Casino Royale and the latest Star Trek are the same way. In fact I think it is so good, it looks better than the original disc.

The only reason I can think of why ripped compressed BRs or DVDs look as good, is because their not being read in real time. There are no scratches or dust to compensate for reading from the laser eye of a transport. Since the software player doesn't have to re-read for scratches or imperfections of the physical disc..all data is read from memory. I would guess less jitter as well.

The rips have been read for errors several times before the ripping process is complete.

This is just me thinking off the top of my head. I've been an audiophile for years now. All my music(12,000 songs) are set up the same way. Everything is played directly from hard drive instead of the physical disc. Music sounds better IMO playing from hard drive than from disc IME.

Tradewinds I use the MPC-HC player for most of my playback. It contains all the codecs you need. I know there are methods using Direct show.

I've even taken my drives and hooked them to a WD TV live unit. Play these on your displays whether TV or projector and you'll have a difficult time seeing a difference verses a stand alone Blu ray player.

I equate MP4, H.264 video compression to Flac or Apple loss less music compression. The files are much smaller in size than the original, with minimal to no loss in quality.
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post #13 of 30 Old 05-07-2010, 09:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joesyah View Post

The only reason I can think of why ripped compressed BRs or DVDs look as good, is because their not being read in real time. There are no scratches or dust to compensate for reading from the laser eye of a transport. Since the software player doesn't have to re-read for scratches or imperfections of the physical disc..all data is read from memory. I would guess less jitter as well.

It's not literally in real time, there's a buffer in there and I would assume a pretty good size one for blu ray.

Even CD players have buffers....and the portable ones have larger buffers, the only way they can play w/o skipping all the time.
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post #14 of 30 Old 05-07-2010, 10:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fleaman View Post

It's not literally in real time, there's a buffer in there and I would assume a pretty good size one for blu ray.

Even CD players have buffers....and the portable ones have larger buffers, the only way they can play w/o skipping all the time.

Yes very true fleaman but it is still being read by a eye of the transport in real time. There's really not much room for error.

If you have a copy that is error free consistently verses one that could or couldn't be error free depending on the drives performance or if the disc has a little finger print smudge or even dust that you can't see. Which do you think will come out on top most of the time? There's a High end CD player manufacture that actually builds their CD players to play from large memory files, just to improve the quality of sound.

Compare a Blu ray ripped to 3 Gbs and a DVD ripped completely(possibly 4 to 6 Gbs). I guarantee you there's a huge difference in picture quality and easily discernible. The nod would go to the smaller file.

For example, I have a rip of "The Lake House" on DVD. The file is over 4 Gbs. I have Blu ray rips of all the episodes of " Band of Brothers" that are all 2.3Gbs a piece. They completely obliterate the file twice their size in picture quality..with absolutely no question about it.

Another example, I could burn one of the Blu ray rips to physical DVD. Put your best DVD player up( no matter the cost)and compare it to the same file playing from hard drive..the DVD player would lose big time!

The size of the file doesn't equate to how good it will look on the screen. It's more about the compressed format and what the original quality of the file was before it was ripped.
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post #15 of 30 Old 05-07-2010, 11:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joesyah View Post

The size of the file doesn't equate to how good it will look on the screen. It's more about the compressed format and what the original quality of the file was before it was ripped.

Yes, I agree with this.
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post #16 of 30 Old 05-07-2010, 11:08 AM
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I completely disagree, I have an HD65 as well, with probably 250 current blu-rays ripped. I've ran the gambit of conversion utilities and I can always tell when you over-compress.

File size is a direct representation of compression, there's no magic behind conversion utilities.

3gb avatar would be sub 480p, since it's nearly 3hrs long it would be approaching divx.

I can understand you appreciate the smaller file size for a variety of reasons, and I can also agree you can have a nice picture with a 8gb bluray rip vs a normal 8gb DVD, however pushing Avatar down to 3gb will have a very noticeable effect, no question!

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post #17 of 30 Old 05-07-2010, 11:11 AM
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Too bad I'm on the east coast and you on the west Fleaman. I would invite you over for a preview. You'd be amazed ! In the end, I think you would walk away with a new perspective on movies played from hard drive.
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post #18 of 30 Old 05-07-2010, 11:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishtank View Post

I completely disagree, I have an HD65 as well, with probably 250 current blu-rays ripped. I've ran the gambit of conversion utilities and I can always tell when you over-compress.

File size is a direct representation of compression, there's no magic behind conversion utilities.

3gb avatar would be sub 480p, since it's nearly 3hrs long it would be approaching divx.

I can understand you appreciate the smaller file size for a variety of reasons, and I can also agree you can have a nice picture with a 8gb bluray rip vs a normal 8gb DVD, however pushing Avatar down to 3gb will have a very noticeable effect, no question!

Apparently Fishtank you've missed some ripping in your gambit. My Avatar file is 1280 by 720 running at a total bit rate of 2209 kbps. The screen ratio is 1.77:1.
The file is H.264. Oh and the file size is 2.6 Gbs. So its below the 3 gbs mark and well above 480P.
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post #19 of 30 Old 05-07-2010, 11:50 AM
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Remember, if you are getting rid of the HD Audio and going stereo and not compromising much on the Video quality then PQ can still be maintained especially when getting rid of most of the other stuff on the disc that is not the movie.

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post #20 of 30 Old 05-07-2010, 12:15 PM
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LOL, sorry no offense but this is totally untrue! I have friends that do this for a living (professional level encoding) and they read this after I forwarded it to them and LOL'd too. There is not a codec in existence that can take a 40+ gb blu ray and compress to any where near 3 gb with no loss of quality, it simply does not exist. I have seen some of the best compression jobs ever done and even compressing 1080p to 720p (regardless of codec/container) will result in detail loss... period, end of story. There are math algorithms involved here this is not magic in a bottle .

* I am not trying to argue here either, just simply stating the facts. I have seen others claim similar results, what generally happens here is people either convince themselves that it looks just as good or they simply do not have a capable enough display to discern the difference. I have compared a <8 gb compressed file to an original >40 gb file and could instantly tell the difference, which is not to imply that the compressed file did not look good, it did, but not nearly as good as the original.

Jason
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post #21 of 30 Old 05-07-2010, 12:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joesyah View Post

Apparently Fishtank you've missed some ripping in your gambit. My Avatar file is 1280 by 720 running at a total bit rate of 2209 kbps. The screen ratio is 1.77:1.
The file is H.264. Oh and the file size is 2.6 Gbs. So its below the 3 gbs mark and well above 480P.

Ah it's quite possible. I haven't looked into it in a year or 2 I suppose, I just use the method I liked best that worked back then.

I agree with DaGamePimp though, I would say you are probably the best encoder in the world if your are being truthful, I don't honestly believe you can compress a 3hr movie into 720P into a filesize under 3gb... but if you can I would like to know how.

I would probably spend time re-ripping my movies if it were the case.

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post #22 of 30 Old 05-07-2010, 12:21 PM - Thread Starter
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I guess I did, didn't I?

Still, I'm still waiting for the thread to get back on track and get some good recommendations for a good Blu Ray player that fits the original post's criteria...



Quote:
Originally Posted by Joesyah View Post

You just described an HTPC(Home theater PC)! This is what I use with my PJs and TVs. They'll do all of what you're asking and then some. In-fact I'm posting this from one of them attached to a projector. I suggest you check out that forum. There's a plethora of info on what can be done with an HTPC.

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post #23 of 30 Old 05-07-2010, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaGamePimp View Post

LOL, sorry no offense but this is totally untrue! I have friends that do this for a living (professional level encoding) and they read this after I forwarded it to them and LOL'd too. There is not a codec in existence that can take a 40+ gb blu ray and compress to any where near 3 gb with no loss of quality, it simply does not exist. I have seen some of the best compression jobs ever done and even compressing 1080p to 720p (regardless of codec/container) will result in detail loss... period, end of story. There are math algorithms involved here this is not magic in a bottle .

* I am not trying to argue here either, just simply stating the facts. I have seen others claim similar results, what generally happens here is people either convince themselves that it looks just as good or they simply do not have a capable enough display to discern the difference. I have compared a <8 gb compressed file to an original >40 gb file and could instantly tell the difference, which is not to imply that the compressed file did not look good, it did, but not nearly as good as the original.

Jason

First of all I never said there wouldn't be a loss of quality. Of course the size of the file makes a difference in certain instances like sound.. But if you weren't told a file was 8Gbs or 15 Gbs. I seriously doubt you would know the difference visually..no matter the display. You can give me all the instances about how you can see differences that are so minuet. Done in a test where you have no idea which one your looking at...I think you'd fail like most.

And yes Fishtank the file is 1280X720P. Sorry OP to get off track. I would venture over to that forum (HTPC) and get some more info on this. It takes some tinkering , but it can be very rewarding.
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post #24 of 30 Old 05-07-2010, 12:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dpn View Post

I guess I did, didn't I?

Still, I'm still waiting for the thread to get back on track and get some good recommendations for a good Blu Ray player that fits the original post's criteria...

ah yeah sorry man.

I would personally recommend a PS3 or HTPC as well, if it's not your thing then I hope you find something that is.

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post #25 of 30 Old 05-07-2010, 12:43 PM - Thread Starter
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No sweat!

HTPC sounds good, but I don't need ANOTHER big project...Is there something out there "ready to buy" that would work okay???

I looked at the Build Your Own thread but it would take weeks to wade through all that!

DPN



Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishtank View Post

ah yeah sorry man.

I would personally recommend a PS3 or HTPC as well, if it's not your thing then I hope you find something that is.

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post #26 of 30 Old 05-07-2010, 12:50 PM
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If you want something prebuilt. You have a couple of Dell models that work well. There's also the Acer Aspire Revo. One these sell around $400 or less with wifi built in. It's small enough to strap to the back of a television.
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post #27 of 30 Old 05-07-2010, 01:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dpn View Post

No sweat!

HTPC sounds good, but I don't need ANOTHER big project...Is there something out there "ready to buy" that would work okay???

I looked at the Build Your Own thread but it would take weeks to wade through all that!

DPN

If i were you id buy the following
GIGABYTE GA-MA785GM-US2H - mobo/video card together
AMD Athlon II X2 240 Regor 2.8GHz - processor
2gb ram of your choice
hdd drive of your choice
most computer cases come with a power supply
wireless keyboard/mouse
bluray drive

You do not need any extra fans, it shouldnt get that hot watching a movie.
also on my htpc i am currently using the following
mediaportal as my media center
coreavc - my video codec
ac3 filter - audio codec
halimedia splitter.
and one other thing cant remember it.

It shouldnt take that long to get everything all set up, if you use iso files you can set up mediaportal to recognize daemon tools. cool feature.

Or you can find a prebuilt computer with windows installed and install all of the proper codecs.
Just remember you do not need to go over kill on the HTPC.

Good luck, if you got any other questions give me a pm.
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post #28 of 30 Old 05-07-2010, 01:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks! I do appreciate the advice...

DPN

Quote:
Originally Posted by dajaga007 View Post

If i were you id buy the following
GIGABYTE GA-MA785GM-US2H - mobo/video card together
AMD Athlon II X2 240 Regor 2.8GHz - processor
2gb ram of your choice
hdd drive of your choice
most computer cases come with a power supply
wireless keyboard/mouse
bluray drive

You do not need any extra fans, it shouldnt get that hot watching a movie.
also on my htpc i am currently using the following
mediaportal as my media center
coreavc - my video codec
ac3 filter - audio codec
halimedia splitter.
and one other thing cant remember it.

It shouldnt take that long to get everything all set up, if you use iso files you can set up mediaportal to recognize daemon tools. cool feature.

Or you can find a prebuilt computer with windows installed and install all of the proper codecs.
Just remember you do not need to go over kill on the HTPC.

Good luck, if you got any other questions give me a pm.

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post #29 of 30 Old 05-07-2010, 01:13 PM
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Also I forgot to mention you dont need anysound cards, as the mobo will do that for you too. I think with all gigabyte mobo they pass audio through hdmi, but if you do not have a receiver with hdmi there will be optical out,

only time you need a sound card is when you are using analog and you need high quility cables ect.
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post #30 of 30 Old 05-12-2010, 12:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Do you think a 275W power supply is too small?

Thanks,

DPN


Quote:
Originally Posted by dajaga007 View Post

If i were you id buy the following
GIGABYTE GA-MA785GM-US2H - mobo/video card together
AMD Athlon II X2 240 Regor 2.8GHz - processor
2gb ram of your choice
hdd drive of your choice
most computer cases come with a power supply
wireless keyboard/mouse
bluray drive

You do not need any extra fans, it shouldnt get that hot watching a movie.
also on my htpc i am currently using the following
mediaportal as my media center
coreavc - my video codec
ac3 filter - audio codec
halimedia splitter.
and one other thing cant remember it.

It shouldnt take that long to get everything all set up, if you use iso files you can set up mediaportal to recognize daemon tools. cool feature.

Or you can find a prebuilt computer with windows installed and install all of the proper codecs.
Just remember you do not need to go over kill on the HTPC.

Good luck, if you got any other questions give me a pm.

dpn is offline  
Reply Digital Projectors - Under $3,000 USD MSRP

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