50" HDMI cable - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 28 Old 05-06-2010, 12:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi All,

Here are the specs of a 50 ft HDMI cable from Vanco:

Uncompressed Digital Video and Multi-Channel Audio on One Cable
Supports Audio Return Channel Functionality
Allows 3D over HDMI when connected to 3D Devices
Supports 4K x 2K and 1080p Video Resolutions
Additional Color Spaces (sYCC601, RGB & YCC601)
Specifications:

Data Speed Transfer: Exceeds 10.2 Gbps
Gold Plated HDMI (Type A to Type A) Connectors
7.3 mm O.D., 28 AWG Black Cable (20 ft and shorter)
9 mm O.D., 26 AWG Black Cable (25 ft and 35 ft)
10.5 mm O.D., 24 AWG (50 ft)
UL Listed and CL3 Rated

I will use this to connect the output from a Denon AVR-1910 to a Epson HC 8100. Can anyone confirm the specs should be okay for the 50 ft length to work? I would like to use XV color; I checked the HDMI official site and while it looks like this should work, I thought of getting advice here before spending the money. The cable is $ 60 but the install is going to cost me a lot more.


Requesting advice from anyone who has used a 50 ft HDMI high speed/ 10 gb, 1.3a cable with their 1080p PJ regardless of the PJ make

Thanks!
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post #2 of 28 Old 05-06-2010, 02:23 PM
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Never had Vanco, I use RixLabs HDMI cables. I have a 35ft hdmi cable from my Onkyo 805 to my Epson 8100 and it works great although I don't know if it currently will support any of the return channels for 3D.
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post #3 of 28 Old 05-06-2010, 02:23 PM
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Seeing as how picky HDMI is with hand shaking and how many post I see with issues, I wouldn't go with a 24gauge cable at 50'. And I hate to sound like a broken record but Monoprice has 50' in-wall rated in 22gauge (either silver $90 or tin $46). Lots of folks on hear swear by Monoprice; I'm one of them
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post #4 of 28 Old 05-06-2010, 02:52 PM
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I won't use there HDMI's, I've had two that wouldn't work properly.
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post #5 of 28 Old 05-06-2010, 02:58 PM - Thread Starter
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I did not see a 50 ft cable on monoprice but there is one on Blue Jeans Cable see
specifications at http://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/...eries1spec.pdf.

Would this be a good cable?

They state the following about that cable:

BJC Belden Series-1 Bonded-Pair HDMI Cable: Best for Long Runs

Series-1 Facts:

•HDMI 1.3a (CTS 1.3b1) certified;
•CM rated (higher rating than CL2) for in-wall installation;
•Unique Patented Bonded Pair Construction;
•This and Series-F2 are the only HDMI cable stock made in USA
•Click for our "Design Notes" article on this HDMI cable.
•Gold-plated connectors; Available in black or white jacket
Where performance over distance is required, our best cable is our original Belden Series-1, a 23.5 AWG HDMI cable. The Series-1 is quite thick and stiff, which is a drawback in terms of installation convenience, but performs better over distance than anything else we have seen--and this is borne out by its independent HDMI certifications. It is certified under HDMI 1.3a (CTS 1.3b and b1) at the longest distances of any HDMI cable we know of--45 feet for Category 1, 25 feet for Category 2. In actual usage, it ordinarily will work at distances far exceeding these--we have run 1080p video through a 125 foot Series-1 HDMI cable without any information loss, but results will vary depending on the capabilities of the sending and receiving circuits of the devices in use. Like the Series-F2, this HDMI cable uses Belden's patented bonded-pair technology and the cable stock is manufactured at Belden facilities in Kentucky and Indiana; foot for foot, it is the costliest HDMI cable stock in the world to manufacture, but we sell it at a price lower than many "premium" brands that lack the specs and the certifications that this HDMI cable holds.Read more details, or view specs, on our BJC Series-1 Bonded-Pair HDMI Cable.
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post #6 of 28 Old 05-06-2010, 05:42 PM
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Make sure that you run other cables along with the HDMI. At a minimum, I would run some coax, component, and twisted pair cables along with the HDMI. And absolutely, positively, do not run the power cable in parallel with the HDMI. At 50 feet, you're really taxing the cable, especially after running the signal through the receiver.

At 50', I don't think you're going to find any series-2 rated cables; your best bet is probably a really good quality series-1 in 22ga. Even then, you might sometimes have handshaking issues; that's why you have to run the other cables as well.

Jim
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post #7 of 28 Old 05-06-2010, 05:58 PM
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You will need v. 1.4 HDMI for 3D.

I have a 50' cable from Monoprice with no problems. Run from Onkyo 707 to BenQ W1000.

Jeff
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post #8 of 28 Old 05-06-2010, 06:28 PM
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nsnqst -- Some time ago, an AVS member asked me about similar cables. I looked them up, and they are guilty of false advertising. Those cables just won't work, and I'm not sure if Vanco will accept returns. A data speed of 10.2 Gbps is nowhere near fast enough for 1080p video.

You best bet (for any cable over 25' - the maximum specified for HDMI 1.3) would be those Blue Jeans cables. Before you install the cable, be sure to hook it up first to verify that it does work (Blue Jeans will accept returns). You don't want to go through the hassle of installing it just to find out that it's just too long to work. You should also note that BJC also states that only "Category 1 cables are guaranteed to work for 50'". The rating for Category 2 is only 25', maximum. The fastest speed, required by xv color and high speed 1080p video, is Catagory 2 cable (at least from a testing and guarantee standpoint). That doesn't mean a Category 1 cable won't work, it's just that it may not.

Because those heavy duty cable are very stiff, you will have to be very careful when using them. They won't bend sharply, and cable stress on the connectors could damage the HDMI connectors on your equipment (AVR & projector).

You might want to check out the "HDMI Port Savers" from monoprice (http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...seq=1&format=2). They will reduce the stress on your equipment connectors (you need one on each end) when using heavy duty cables.

BuffaloJim is right. Getting a 50' HDMI 1.3 cable to work is going to be tricky. I seriously doubt you will be able to do xv color with that length (and there are no Blu-Ray discs that support that either).

For 50' lengths, you may need to use a HDMI booster. Monoprice sells them, but you need to be careful which one you get. Gefen sells HDMI boosters too, but for a lot higher price.

Jeffcom -- You are lucky. But it is good to hear.

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post #9 of 28 Old 05-06-2010, 06:49 PM
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For what it's worth, I have a 50 ft cable I bought from amazon for$22 that works fine for me. Mine is only 720p, though. If I send 1080p, it still works fine, but the projector is native 720p. I have issues with 24fps, but I'm almost positive that's because my projector doesn't support it.

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post #10 of 28 Old 05-06-2010, 07:36 PM
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22 guage Mono price here in 45' and 75' lengths. Work great, do use a port saver on the 45's and an equalizer and 12" cable on the 75'.
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post #11 of 28 Old 05-06-2010, 08:21 PM
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I used 50 ft of mono HDMI with my projector and it work great.
My Cat5 had handshake issues. Big mistake but the installer insisted on the Cat5.
Then we put the HDMI in and all went well.

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post #12 of 28 Old 05-06-2010, 08:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CT_Wiebe View Post

nsnqst -- Some time ago, an AVS member asked me about similar cables. I looked them up, and they are guilty of false advertising. Those cables just won't work, and I'm not sure if Vanco will accept returns. A data speed of 10.2 Gbps is nowhere near fast enough for 1080p video.

You best bet (for any cable over 25' - the maximum specified for HDMI 1.3) would be those Blue Jeans cables. Before you install the cable, be sure to hook it up first to verify that it does work (Blue Jeans will accept returns). You don't want to go through the hassle of installing it just to find out that it's just too long to work. You should also note that BJC also states that only "Category 1 cables are guaranteed to work for 50'". The rating for Category 2 is only 25', maximum. The fastest speed, required by xv color and high speed 1080p video, is Catagory 2 cable (at least from a testing and guarantee standpoint). That doesn't mean a Category 1 cable won't work, it's just that it may not.

Because those heavy duty cable are very stiff, you will have to be very careful when using them. They won't bend sharply, and cable stress on the connectors could damage the HDMI connectors on your equipment (AVR & projector).

You might want to check out the "HDMI Port Savers" from monoprice (http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...seq=1&format=2). They will reduce the stress on your equipment connectors (you need one on each end) when using heavy duty cables.

BuffaloJim is right. Getting a 50' HDMI 1.3 cable to work is going to be tricky. I seriously doubt you will be able to do xv color with that length (and there are no Blu-Ray discs that support that either).

For 50' lengths, you may need to use a HDMI booster. Monoprice sells them, but you need to be careful which one you get. Gefen sells HDMI boosters too, but for a lot higher price.

Jeffcom -- You are lucky. But it is good to hear.

Thank you all for your help.

CT_Wiebe - good to hear from you again; we exchanged messages probably 4 years ago (when I had a IF 4805 and then went for the NEC HT510) what a change since then.

I do appreciate your inputs but check the following threads from the HDMI official website FAQ:

http://www.hdmi.org/learningcenter/kb.aspx#45 - Cat 2 HDMI supports up to 10.2 Gbps and also WQXGA resolutions.

See the presentation here http://www.hdmi.org/learningcenter/H...r_tng_1112.htm - it states 1080p only takes about 4.46 Gbps, leaving plenty of space for higher speeds allowing cinema quality video

http://www.hdmi.org/learningcenter/kb.aspx#44 - HDMI specs does not specify maximum cable length but specifies

I respect your inputs; you're a known expert but I noticed some disconnects in the information provided in the replies to this thread and HDMI website.

I also appreciate practical advice about the port saver; you all make this forum priceless!

Thanks again. I think I am going to do an actual measure and go for 40' or 45' if it suffices.
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post #13 of 28 Old 05-06-2010, 10:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BuffaloJim View Post

Make sure that you run other cables along with the HDMI. At a minimum, I would run some coax, component, and twisted pair cables along with the HDMI. And absolutely, positively, do not run the power cable in parallel with the HDMI. At 50 feet, you're really taxing the cable, especially after running the signal through the receiver.

At 50', I don't think you're going to find any series-2 rated cables; your best bet is probably a really good quality series-1 in 22ga. Even then, you might sometimes have handshaking issues; that's why you have to run the other cables as well.

Jim

BuffaloJim - thanks for the advice; I am planning to run a component video and a CAT6 cable (converted with VGA as well as RCA adapters on both ends) with the HDMI cable (no power cables along)
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post #14 of 28 Old 05-07-2010, 12:34 AM - Thread Starter
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After all this discussion, I found the HDMI repeater on Monoprice. Duh! Its probably a no-brainer to use 2 X 25 ft cables with the repeater if the 50 ft does not work.

http://www.monoprice.com/products/se...=hdmi+repeater
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post #15 of 28 Old 05-07-2010, 06:30 AM
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that's assuming the 25' foot "mark" lands somewhere where you can put the repeater (access, powering) AND that it works ... nothing is a "given" in "hdmi land".... because of the number of "variables" involved.
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post #16 of 28 Old 05-07-2010, 09:08 AM
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Back to the OP...I have used the Vanco's at shorter lengths (25') but I would not recommend them at 50'. If the cable is going to be inwall/inceiling, please don't skimp. It would be a shame to run into problems after you go to the trouble of running it.
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post #17 of 28 Old 05-09-2010, 09:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CT_Wiebe View Post

nsnqst You might want to check out the "HDMI Port Savers" from monoprice (http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...seq=1&format=2). They will reduce the stress on your equipment connectors (you need one on each end) when using heavy duty cables.

This is my port saver of choice. Works great! Also monoprice
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post #18 of 28 Old 05-09-2010, 09:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Turk View Post

Back to the OP...I have used the Vanco's at shorter lengths (25') but I would not recommend them at 50'. If the cable is going to be inwall/inceiling, please don't skimp. It would be a shame to run into problems after you go to the trouble of running it.

Agreed 100% Jason! The last thing you want to do is start troubleshooting HDMI synch issues with a cable that been run through walls/ceiling. Especially if its intermittant. having people over to watch a movie and then trying to get HDMI synch is just plain old frustration!

I would stay away from port extenders also, run a high quality cable from the start. I'm running a 40' from Monoprice; receiver to projector and have never had any issues.
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post #19 of 28 Old 05-09-2010, 04:54 PM
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I'd be looking to future proof your system and many good cables that will work today might not work when twice the bandwidth is needed for 3D, higher resolutions and deep color sources become available. The best thing you can do to future proof is conduit if that is practical to run. Otherwise, I'd run two Cat 6 as well as the HDMI just in case.

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post #20 of 28 Old 05-12-2010, 11:10 AM - Thread Starter
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I got the 40 ft Tartan 22AWG cable from Blue Jeans; works fine. BobL - thank you for the idea about the conduit - that is what i am going to do. I am also using 2 port savers from Monoprice- thanks CTWiebe
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post #21 of 28 Old 05-12-2010, 11:11 AM - Thread Starter
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BTW I also ordered the 50 ft Tartan from Blue Jeans Cable as well; just in case the 40ft is short. Will post here if the 50ft works or no.
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post #22 of 28 Old 05-12-2010, 01:28 PM
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Be cautious with port savers, they add capacitance and at your lengths it might make the difference between a picture or not. With HDMI I'm a big fan of having as few obstacles in the chain as possible. I know we had HDMI wall plates that added enough capacitance to not get a picture. The wall plates are small extensions very similar to port savers. It won't hurt to try them but if you have a problem take them out and see if it corrects it. There are other devices that help lock your HDMI cable into your equipment to help save the port and the connection.

Bob


Just my experience
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post #23 of 28 Old 05-13-2010, 09:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nsnqst View Post

BTW I also ordered the 50 ft Tartan from Blue Jeans Cable as well; just in case the 40ft is short. Will post here if the 50ft works or no.

I think you made a good choice: I have had great luck with BJC.

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post #24 of 28 Old 05-17-2010, 06:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobL View Post

Be cautious with port savers, they add capacitance and at your lengths it might make the difference between a picture or not. With HDMI I'm a big fan of having as few obstacles in the chain as possible. I know we had HDMI wall plates that added enough capacitance to not get a picture. The wall plates are small extensions very similar to port savers. It won't hurt to try them but if you have a problem take them out and see if it corrects it. There are other devices that help lock your HDMI cable into your equipment to help save the port and the connection.

Bob


Just my experience

Thanks, BobL:

As an update; here is my cable setup:

Sony BDP-X2 & Dish HD DVR both feeding HDMI to Denon AVR-1910. Denon HDMI out to a port saver - 3 ft HDMI cable - HDMI wall outlet with a 4" cable - 22 AWG Tartan 40ft HDMI cable from Blue Jeans - HDMI wall outlet with a 4" cable - 3ft HDMI cable to HC 8100.

The above combination works. The cable is not in the wall but is routed along the route it will be installed in.

Comments are welcome. I expect to install this Tuesday.
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post #25 of 28 Old 05-17-2010, 07:40 AM
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If it works it is fine!!! HDMI has what is termed the 'cliff effect' in which once your signal deteriorates so much it is like falling off a cliff and you no longer get a picture. If you get a picture than it is perfect without no loss in quality. Sometimes you might be right on the edge and get 'sparklies', 'blocks' or intermittent picture and if it doesn't happen at a lower resolution then you know it is a signal problem.

If you do have a problem in the future consider removing the extenders and wall plates and running the cable direct. Each connection adds capacitance and a cable's capacitance does change over time, it doesn't change much but HDMI doesn't have a lot of buffer room before it reaches its 'cliff effect'.

Good luck with your installation.

Bob
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post #26 of 28 Old 05-17-2010, 12:15 PM
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Some misinformation in this thread so do your research regarding cable spec and requirements at various lengths .

HDMI cables are a tricky beast, some high quality cables have not worked where inexpensive or even pack-in cables have worked. Beware of the marketing behind those UBER cables but at the same time do not skimp when it comes to longer lengths (especially when running through walls).

Jason
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post #27 of 28 Old 05-19-2010, 08:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Installation done- this is the final setup - works fine. The cables are routed such that a cable can be added to the mix or any cable can be replaced without breaking anything.

Sony BDP-X2 & Dish HD DVR both feeding HDMI to Denon AVR-1910. Denon HDMI out to a port saver - 22 AWG Tartan 40ft HDMI cable from Blue Jeans - HDMI wall outlet with a 4" cable - 3ft HDMI cable to HC 8100.
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post #28 of 28 Old 07-07-2010, 06:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nsnqst View Post

Installation done- this is the final setup - works fine. The cables are routed such that a cable can be added to the mix or any cable can be replaced without breaking anything.

Sony BDP-X2 & Dish HD DVR both feeding HDMI to Denon AVR-1910. Denon HDMI out to a port saver - 22 AWG Tartan 40ft HDMI cable from Blue Jeans - HDMI wall outlet with a 4" cable - 3ft HDMI cable to HC 8100.

not hijackin ur thread...just curious to know

Since I wont buy 3D projector for at least next 3-4 years -- do i really need to run hdmi 1.4 cable?
I am going to connect it to Panny AE4000U - does it make ant difference with HDMI 1.3 vs HDMI 1.4??
If not I should be find with Hdmi 1.3A correct?
Its hard to find good 50' HDMI 1.4 cable for under $60
In brief:
this cable good enough monoprice linkor HDMI1.4 will improve performance??

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