Optoma HD20 vs. BenQ W1000 vs. Vivitek H1080FD - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 46 Old 08-10-2010, 05:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Hey,

I am currently using an Optoma EP 739 and am looking to upgrade to a 1080p projector. The projector is 19' 6" - 19' 8" from a 1.0 gain screen. Currently it is projecting a ~135" image, with a length of ~120" and a height of ~60".

I've had my eyes on the Panasonic PT AE4000U for a very long time now, but recently I noticed that the projection calculator on projector central had been adjusted, and thus the only way for me to get a decent image would be using a 1.2 gain screen with no zoom, producing a 100" image. While this seems suitable, it would be a large downgrade, and I am willing to sacrifice image quality for the sake of size. The same problem occurs with the HC3800, which also requires a 1.2 gain screen to get a good image, but it would be larger at 136".

I was wondering which projector of the ones I've listed (HD20, W1000, and the H1080FD) would be best at the distance I will be projecting from, and at the size. I know that the projector central calculator lists them at pretty much equal, but I doubt those are accurate lumens numbers and I was wondering if anyone had accurate figures. So basically, which projector would you choose for producing at least a ~135" diagonal image from a distance of nearly 20 feet, on a 1.0 gain screen. I read the other forums and they seem to be mixed, with some favoring the hd20, and others the benq, and so on. Also, the projector central reviewers preferred the hd20 but i noticed most posters did not.

Thank you
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post #2 of 46 Old 08-10-2010, 06:03 PM
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The Optoma and Vivitek will not work with your throw and screen size.

The Benq will work if you use it in high power mode, which will be pretty loud. And the rainbows are AWFUL on the Benq(I had it for 2 weeks and sent it back).
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post #3 of 46 Old 08-10-2010, 07:01 PM
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The BenQ will not work at that distance for a 135" screen. At 19' your screen would be almost 165". Loud? if you say so Jim. lol

You wouldn't need to use high power mode at all actually. FL would still be around 16 running in econo mode with BC engaged. It could be higher depending on what user mode you use. Lumens output wouldn't be a problem for the projector, but zoom will.

I would stay clear of the 3800s..you only have a 1 in 5 chance of getting one that will actually work.
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post #4 of 46 Old 08-10-2010, 08:08 PM
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I had a benq on a shelf a foot away running in high power mode and couldn't hear it
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post #5 of 46 Old 08-11-2010, 07:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Really? I guess projector central needs to correct their calculator . The screen I'm using is actually MUCH bigger than the image projected, so even a 165" would work... Although it would get awfully close to the boundaries. I guess I could always play anamorphic movies. Does the BenQ really get 165" though with NO zoom? That seems unnaturally large for a widescreen image.

Jim, why do you think that the HD20 and the vivitek won't work? Hmmm... that will be unfortunate if they don't. If only I could test them in my house, but I don't know anyone who owns either. I guess I could move the projector mount a few feet forward, maybe to 14-16 feet from the image. This would make it pretty much on top of the viewers though. Would this allow the hd20 or vivitek to work? And is the image quality of either of those greater than the BenQ to the point that it is worth it? I've noticed a lot of contrasting reviews. I forgot to mention that it will be used in a completely light-controlled environment.

Thanks for the replies
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post #6 of 46 Old 08-11-2010, 07:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redguard117 View Post

Really? I guess projector central needs to correct their calculator . The screen I'm using is actually MUCH bigger than the image projected, so even a 165" would work... Although it would get awfully close to the boundaries. I guess I could always play anamorphic movies. Does the BenQ really get 165" though with NO zoom? That seems unnaturally large for a widescreen image.

Jim, why do you think that the HD20 and the vivitek won't work? Hmmm... that will be unfortunate if they don't. If only I could test them in my house, but I don't know anyone who owns either. I guess I could move the projector mount a few feet forward, maybe to 14-16 feet from the image. This would make it pretty much on top of the viewers though. Would this allow the hd20 or vivitek to work? And is the image quality of either of those greater than the BenQ to the point that it is worth it? I've noticed a lot of contrasting reviews. I forgot to mention that it will be used in a completely light-controlled environment.

Thanks for the replies

When I used the calculator at Projector Central, the Optoma and Vivitek would not give you the desired size from your throw distance. And if I recall they were not bright enough either.
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post #7 of 46 Old 08-11-2010, 07:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redguard117 View Post

Really? I guess projector central needs to correct their calculator . The screen I'm using is actually MUCH bigger than the image projected, so even a 165" would work... Although it would get awfully close to the boundaries. I guess I could always play anamorphic movies. Does the BenQ really get 165" though with NO zoom? That seems unnaturally large for a widescreen image.

Jim, why do you think that the HD20 and the vivitek won't work? Hmmm... that will be unfortunate if they don't. If only I could test them in my house, but I don't know anyone who owns either. I guess I could move the projector mount a few feet forward, maybe to 14-16 feet from the image. This would make it pretty much on top of the viewers though. Would this allow the hd20 or vivitek to work? And is the image quality of either of those greater than the BenQ to the point that it is worth it? I've noticed a lot of contrasting reviews. I forgot to mention that it will be used in a completely light-controlled environment.

Thanks for the replies

Yes the Benq will do a screen that size without issue. It and the Vivitek both can handle a screen that size . They are also the two quietest DLP units in this price range. Unless you're RBE sensitive ..the BenQ or the Vivitek should do just fine. None of the others will have the lumens IMO to give you a nice bright vivid image on a 1.0 gain screen of that size.
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post #8 of 46 Old 08-12-2010, 05:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joesyah View Post

Yes the Benq will do a screen that size without issue. It and the Vivitek both can handle a screen that size . They are also the two quietest DLP units in this price range. Unless you're RBE sensitive ..the BenQ or the Vivitek should do just fine. None of the others will have the lumens IMO to give you a nice bright vivid image on a 1.0 gain screen of that size.

Great, thanks alot. I've always wondered why they don't produce higher quality projectors with high lumen outputs. The hd20 could easily have had a higher lumen count, i don't know why Optoma decided to settle for less than its competitors. Unless there was some technical threshold they were unable to cross. Luckily I'm not RBE sensitive, so both the BenQ and the Vivitek will work.

If you don't mind, which one would you choose if you had to? They're pretty much identical in price and features, so I need something to help me decide.

Sorry Jim, I should have been clearer. The image I projected is ~135", but my screen is significantly larger and thus should be able to handle them. Thank your for your help
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post #9 of 46 Old 08-12-2010, 06:44 AM
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I just purchased a vivitek h1080fd. Haven't unboxed it yet, but I know I'll be happy with my choice.

The benq and viv are almost identical. They have the same chassis, with slightly different lenses and bulbs. The vivitek also has a 3x color wheel rather than the 2x in the benq. Plus the benq is out of stock in a lot of places.

Just my $0.02
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post #10 of 46 Old 08-12-2010, 08:45 AM
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According to the manual, the Benq will give you between 141" and 169" diagonal at a 19.5' throw. Note that you'll have 11" to 12" of offset at that size, which could be an issue with low ceilings. The big problem with the Benq, however, is the rainbows. I've had 3 DLPs and never had a problem with rainbows. When I saw the Benq, however, they were very evident. I disagree with Joesyah on the 3800. It appears that units purchased now have much better reliability. The issue with the 3800 is whether it is bright enough at that size. The Vivitek will give you about the same diagonal range as the Benq. It has even bigger offset than the Benq though. It has a faster color wheel, so it might be better on the RBE front.
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post #11 of 46 Old 08-12-2010, 08:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lewis26 View Post

I just purchased a vivitek h1080fd. Haven't unboxed it yet, but I know I'll be happy with my choice.

The benq and viv are almost identical. They have the same chassis, with slightly different lenses and bulbs. The vivitek also has a 3x color wheel rather than the 2x in the benq. Plus the benq is out of stock in a lot of places.

Just my $0.02

Quote:
Originally Posted by joealtus View Post

According to the manual, the Benq will give you between 141" and 169" diagonal at a 19.5' throw. Note that you'll have 11" to 12" of offset at that size, which could be an issue with low ceilings. The big problem with the Benq, however, is the rainbows. I've had 3 DLPs and never had a problem with rainbows. When I saw the Benq, however, they were very evident. I disagree with Joesyah on the 3800. It appears that units purchased now have much better reliability. The issue with the 3800 is whether it is bright enough at that size. The Vivitek will give you about the same diagonal range as the Benq. It has even bigger offset than the Benq though. It has a faster color wheel, so it might be better on the RBE front.

Lucked out again it seems, my ceiling is decent sized and the one I'm using already has around a foot offset. I've never seen rainbows either but considering what you guys said, I guess i'll try out the vivitek.

Thanks
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post #12 of 46 Old 08-12-2010, 10:12 AM
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From the calculator..... From a throw of 19' 7" and a 165" 1.0 gain screen:

HD20 = 10 fL
Vivitech = 11 fL
BenQ - 12 fL

Honestly they are all pretty dim at that size and I wouldn't recommend any of those at your size and gain. Generally anything under 2500 lumens, you want to max 150" screen size IMHO....of course there is "gain" to consider that will help.

The Projector Calculator assumes perfect conditions as well such as the projectors' hitting their rated lumens output and they are assuming you are on bright-mode with it.

Also as the bulb ages, it becomes dimmer and you won't get those rated fL that I posted above after some hours on the clock.

Not trying to deter you, just something to keep in mind.

Quote:
Originally Posted by redguard117 View Post

Great, thanks alot. The hd20 could easily have had a higher lumen count, i don't know why Optoma decided to settle for less than its competitors. Unless there was some technical threshold they were unable to cross.
If you don't mind, which one would you choose if you had to?

The HD20 achieves its 4X color-wheel speed because of its (RGBRGB) color wheel refreshing the primaries twice per spin, 4X per frame. This lessens RBE at the cost of lumens.
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post #13 of 46 Old 08-12-2010, 10:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Sure, I understand. However, I'm planning to run them with no zoom, so that reduces the size substantially to 140". Would this provide a good image? Otherwise, like I mentioned, I can always move my mount forward by up to 5 feet if needed. It is currently at 19'6", and I can take it to around 15'-16'. The reason I really want to upgrade is so I can finally use a full 1080p image.

Thanks for the reply

Edit: I didn't see the second part of your post. Thanks for clearing that up for me, it explains alot.
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post #14 of 46 Old 08-12-2010, 10:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redguard117 View Post

Sure, I understand. However, I'm planning to run them with no zoom, so that reduces the size substantially to 140". Would this provide a good image? Otherwise, like I mentioned, I can always move my mount forward by up to 5 feet if needed. It is currently at 19'6", and I can take it to around 15'-16'. The reason I really want to upgrade is so I can finally use a full 1080p image.

Thanks for the reply

Edit: I didn't see the second part of your post. Thanks for clearing that up for me, it explains alot.

Your welcome and yes, moving the planned light source forward and closer to the destination, will raise your fL substantially, Inverse-square law.

Edit: Don't forget that certain online retailers like Amazon have an excellent return policy for testing.


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post #15 of 46 Old 08-12-2010, 03:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrNegative View Post

From the calculator..... From a throw of 19' 7" and a 165" 1.0 gain screen:

HD20 = 10 fL
Vivitech = 11 fL
BenQ - 12 fL

Honestly they are all pretty dim at that size and I wouldn't recommend any of those at your size and gain. Generally anything under 2500 lumens, you want to max 150" screen size IMHO....of course there is "gain" to consider that will help.

The Projector Calculator assumes perfect conditions as well such as the projectors' hitting their rated lumens output and they are assuming you are on bright-mode with it.

Also as the bulb ages, it becomes dimmer and you won't get those rated fL that I posted above after some hours on the clock.

Not trying to deter you, just something to keep in mind.



The HD20 achieves its 4X color-wheel speed because of its (RGBRGB) color wheel refreshing the primaries twice per spin, 4X per frame. This lessens RBE at the cost of lumens.

How did you come up with 12 fl for the BenQ? What lumen output did you use? This unit throws a lot more light than what your figures are showing.
At 1200 lumens (Benq in econo mode with BC engage calibrated with projectorreviews figures). Those lumens increase depending on user mode. Using the Carlton calculator on 165" screen 1.1 gain I get 16.3 fl. Plug in 1500 lumens and you're up to 20 fl. Using your numbers of 12fl..that's only 880 lumens? That's no where near what this projector can do and still display a nice image. There's absolutely no comparison in brightness when comparing the Vivitek or the BenQ with the HD20.
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post #16 of 46 Old 08-12-2010, 03:54 PM
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The rainbows are absolutely AWFUL on the W1000. If you're affected by rainbows, be warned.
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post #17 of 46 Old 08-12-2010, 04:06 PM
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Be warned the durability of the 3800 is absolutely AWFUL.! LMAO
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post #18 of 46 Old 08-12-2010, 04:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joesyah View Post

How did you come up with 12 fl for the BenQ? What lumen output did you use? This unit throws a lot more light than what your figures are showing.

http://www.projectorcentral.com/proj...ulator-pro.cfm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joesyah View Post

Using the Carlton calculator on 165" screen 1.1 gain I get 16.3 fl. Plug in 1500 lumens and you're up to 20 fl. Using your numbers of 12fl..that's only 880 lumens? That's no where near what this projector can do and still display a nice image. There's absolutely no comparison in brightness when comparing the Vivitek or the BenQ with the HD20.

Carlton calculator will get you in the ball-park, but it doesn't consider the throw-ratio in the equation, nor does it take into account your zoom-ratio and how they both affect overall foot-Lamberts as well. Nor does it take into account of real-world use. Carlton simply has a linear formula based on ANSI lumens rating, screen gain, and screen size, thats it.

For example, for my setup, Projector Central's calculator tells me I should be getting 14 fL, Carlton tells me I should be getting 28 fL, my Spyder 3 colorimeter is reporting 15 fL

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joesyah View Post

Be warned the durability of the 3800 is absolutely AWFUL.! LMAO

I think you mean "reliability". And why are you flaming him? He never mentioned anything about the 3800 in this thread. He just stated his personal experience with the W1000 and was warning him in case he was sensitive.

If the OP wanted a W1000, his only option at this point would be to go directly through BenQ and pay full list price + shipping w/o the excellent return policies of major online retailers. If he called BenQ warranty department and told hem he saw too many rainbows do you think they are gonna refund his money and pay for return shipping? Its a legitimate warning.
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Using the projector central calc I get 16 fl at 19.5' with 0 zoom for the BenQ. Will this be fine to produce a good quality image?


I don't see rainbows, but the number of comments i've seen regarding them makes me worried. However, I've heard that the Vivitek is equally poor regarding rainbows, and the Hd20 won't work at the distance I have so i really don't have a choice

Edit: the image insertion link won't work for me. Is there no way to upload an image from one's computer? Oh well
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post #20 of 46 Old 08-12-2010, 05:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redguard117 View Post

Using the projector central calc I get 16 fl at 19.5' with 0 zoom. Will this be fine to produce a good quality image?


I don't see rainbows, but the number of comments i've seen regarding them makes me worried. However, I've heard that the Vivitek is equally poor regarding rainbows, and the Hd20 won't work at the distance I have so i really don't have a choice

Edit: the image insertion link won't work for me. Is there no way to upload an image from one's computer? Oh well

That will be fine, 16 fL is actually what THX recommends to commercial movie theaters.
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post #21 of 46 Old 08-12-2010, 05:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrNegative View Post

That will be fine, 16 fL is actually what THX recommends to commercial movie theaters.

Great, thank you. I recall having read that 16 fL was considered ideal somewhere, but I can't remember. Do you have any source you would recommend for reading up on contrast/brightness regarding projectors. I like to consider myself well read but as I haven't really used many projectors besides the ep 739 i lack experience.

Guess I'll be getting the BenQ then. Unless someone else posts in the next 5 minutes and tells me it has some other problem btw thank you everyone for the very swift responses. Usually whenever i post somewhere it takes a few days at least to get some quality answers.
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post #22 of 46 Old 08-12-2010, 05:26 PM
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Originally Posted by redguard117 View Post

Do you have any source you would recommend for reading up on contrast/brightness regarding projectors. I like to consider myself well read but as I haven't really used many projectors besides the ep 739 i lack experience.

http://www.projectorcentral.com/home...rs_guide_3.htm
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post #23 of 46 Old 08-12-2010, 06:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrNegative View Post

http://www.projectorcentral.com/proj...ulator-pro.cfm



Carlton calculator will get you in the ball-park, but it doesn't consider the throw-ratio in the equation, nor does it take into account your zoom-ratio and how they both affect overall foot-Lamberts as well. Nor does it take into account of real-world use. Carlton simply has a linear formula based on ANSI lumens rating, screen gain, and screen size, thats it.

For example, on my screen, Projector Central's calculator tells me I should be getting 14 fL, Carlson tells me I should be getting 28 fL, my Spyder 3 colorimeter is reporting 15 fL



I think you mean "reliability". And why are you flaming him? He never mentioned anything about the 3800 in this thread. He just stated his personal experience with the W1000 and was warning him in case he was sensitive.

If the OP wanted a W1000, his only option at this point would be to go directly through BenQ and pay full list price + shipping w/o the excellent return policies of major online retailers. If he called BenQ warranty department and told hem he saw too many rainbows do you think they are gonna refund his money and pay for return shipping? Its a legitimate warning.


I'm not flaming Jim. I was just returning the favor(joking). Not everyone sees rainbows. The OP may not see any at all. Hell I see rainbows with all of them...even a 5 times CW. Either he or she will see them or they won't.I see RBE just as much with my former 4x CW as I see with the Benq 2x. It's not all the time though as some here try to make it out to be.
It doesn't stop me from enjoying mine.

Yes I did mean reliability..I was running out the door when I posted that. lol
I'm tired of people trying to make these projectors be remotely close in REAL world brightness..when they aren't..not even a tad bit.

If the person isn't RBE or knows how to teach themselves how to not see RBE, the Benq is a terrific projector. I hate to see people scared off by something they may never have a problem with..just from a few who are.

There's nothing remotely close to its price that can throw a larger image and still look good.
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post #24 of 46 Old 08-12-2010, 06:21 PM
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I have a w1000 and see no rainbows. No one that has watched it with me has seen any rainbows either. The picture is very bright.and looks great. Expect entry level blacks though with most of the projectors in this range
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post #25 of 46 Old 08-12-2010, 06:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Santapimp27 View Post

I have a w1000 and see no rainbows. No one that has watched it with me has seen any rainbows either. The picture is very bright.and looks great. Expect entry level blacks though with most of the projectors in this range

Hmm.... well i'm glad we all agree on the rainbows lol. That certainly cleared up that matter for me

Being serious, however, would I really only be able to purchase from BenQ itself? I see that amazon is out of stock but if I placed it in my cart, I'm sure it would come (maybe eventually). I guess I can always test the hd20 and the vivitek in between.
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post #26 of 46 Old 08-17-2010, 06:56 AM
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Hmm.... well i'm glad we all agree on the rainbows lol. That certainly cleared up that matter for me

Being serious, however, would I really only be able to purchase from BenQ itself? I see that amazon is out of stock but if I placed it in my cart, I'm sure it would come (maybe eventually). I guess I can always test the hd20 and the vivitek in between.


The reason why BenQ hasn't had stock of the W1000 and W600 is because they were releasing new units..... they took the Apple strategy and just short stock units purposely till they sold out before releasing the new versions. The new versions are called the W600+ and W1000+

The W1000+ should come with better enhanced performance and should still retail for the same price it was before, around $1K. Wait for a few more weeks up to a month because the W1000+ will be the newest version of that model and should be better than its competitors because it had a chance to be tweaked a little

I Love Apple, BenQ, Samsung, and Acer Products = )
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post #27 of 46 Old 08-17-2010, 07:12 AM
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chumpchange, we get it. you like benq, but for the love of god, please stop posting this in EVERY thread.
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post #28 of 46 Old 08-17-2010, 07:17 AM
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Originally Posted by lewis26 View Post

chumpchange, we get it. you like benq, but for the love of god, please stop posting this in EVERY thread.

Sorry, but I just found out on the website that they were releasing new models so I went post HAPPY

I do like BenQ's, GOT A PROBLEM?

I Love Apple, BenQ, Samsung, and Acer Products = )
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post #29 of 46 Old 08-17-2010, 07:21 AM
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Originally Posted by chumpchange21 View Post

Sorry, but I just found out on the website that they were releasing new models so I went post HAPPY

I do like BenQ's, GOT A PROBLEM?

I dont have a problem. Just you've posted about their new projectors in 10-15 threads this morning. Take a chill pill man.
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post #30 of 46 Old 08-17-2010, 07:29 AM
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Dude dude.... I was just kidding

Sorry about that.... Yeah probably was a bit excessive... sorry about that

I do want people to know though... especially some threads were asking especially about the W1000 and W600 because they couldn't seem to find it so I figured some threads where people were asking were probably just as confused so I was just spreading the joy I've found...

Once again sorry if you got the impression that I was picking something with you, I wasn't just playing

I shall take the pill

I Love Apple, BenQ, Samsung, and Acer Products = )
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