iSival MP720B1 LED HD 720p Mini Projector - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 154 Old 08-16-2010, 01:01 AM - Thread Starter
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This LED projector has been out since last year and needs it's own thread, so here it is without further ado ! The main selling points were the price, 720p HD and 30,000 hours LED Light source. No need to ever buy lamps and no toxic Mercury to worry about, the LED projector is a much GREENER enviormentaly safe and friendly product. I have been using the iSival projector now for well over a month and for the $499 price tag I'm happy to say it delivers despite what many will think mainly due to it's low contrast ratio and ansi lumens. The main competitor I'd say is the LG HS201. I don't own the LG but on paper and from user reports it offers rich colors. The inherit problem with the LG is the 800x600 resolution which further gets reduced when displaying 16:9 ratio content. I think it's fine for DVD and standard definition television broadcast signals but when it comes to PC Gaming, Console Gaming, and Blueray standards it falls short..It's a trade-off between contrast ratio and resolution when you compare the two. The iSvial is true 1280x768 pixel count resolution so PC games which is what I play look good on it. There is no visible screen door effect to speak of, even at very close distance. In a light controlled room the 60 ansi lumens gets the job done at 72-100 inches tested so far. The screen at 132 inches is the official maximum size the LENS can properly produce and correctly focus so it's more than enough for the average person. The projector passes the standard greyscale tests and I'd say have good image uniformity. The weakness would be Standard Def content, HiDef looks so much better and seems to handle dark movie scenes better than SD content. There is a green tinge on very dark movie scenes, not sure if it's my HDMI color settings but it is there but not a deal breaker. No input lag to speak of, tested playing Guitar Hero World Tour. The sharpness is decent but far from perfect, colors look good, but doesn't compare to my older Panasonic Tau CRT 1080i HD television (it beats most LCD HDTV on the market and even Plasma sets in my opinion)..but good enough considering the price...And now the rainbow effect..You don't see it much at all with movie content, even during rolling credits ...It's a non issue really. It does however appear in First Person Shooter videogames whenever you pan the camera quickly, but you get used to it..I think all single chip DLP projectors have this issue to some extent regardless of color wheel speed. Most other types of videogames such as racing games, adventure games, role playing games don't exhibit much rainbow effect. On a last note, every person is different, some people are more sensitive to this issue, so you have to be your own judge on this matter. The iSival is a good stop gap solution untill real 1080p LED projectors hit the market..

Here are test images I have compiled. Note that the camera pictures are just examples and that the image is indeed much better looking in real life...some shots zoomed in, no ambient lighting unless noted



Accolade 80" Matte White 1.0 Gain White Screen



Toy Story 3 720P Trailer


King Kong 720P


UP CLOSE (shot taken very close to screen to show pixels)


Singularity -PC Video game running native 1280x720


Lights All On In Room (Washes out image)


More up-close Pixels taken from STREET FIGHTER 4 PC


Appleseed EX Anime film HD (Very good looking on this Projector


And some other random shots...



Up Close Pixels



Panel LCOS
Native Resolution 1280 X 768 (720P), support 1920 x 1080 (1080P)
Supported Aspect Ratio 16:9 (native), 4:3
Brightness ~60 ANSI Lumens
Contrast Ratio 200:1
Uniformity 85%
Keystone Adjustment Auto, Vertical +/-15˚
Projection Screen Size 8"-132" ( 0.2m ~3.35m )
Projection Distance 11.8'' - 216.5'' (0.3m-5.5 m)
Throw Ratio(D/W) 1.6 - 1.8
Video Input HDMI 1.3, D-Sub, Composite. USB (JPEG only)
Refresh Rate 60Hz
Audio I/O Built-in speaker, Audio In (phone jack), Audio line out (phone jack)
Light Source R/G/B LED module
LED Life Up to 30,000hrs
Power Adapter Input: AC100-240V 50/60Hz Output: DC19V, 3A
Typical Power 30W
Size(W x D x H) 1.96'' x 5.78''x 5.11'' (50mm x 147mm x 130mm)
Weight 1.96lb (0.89kg)
Operating Environment Temperature: 5°C ~ 35°C (41°F ~ 95°F); Humidity: 80% (maximum)
Storage Environment Temperature: -20°C ~ 60°C (-4°F ~ 140°F); Humidity: 80% (maximum)

And finally a little bit of info. I was told by a representitave of iSival that currently there is a 1080P LED prototype inhouse, no release date but this means 1080P at hoefully an affordable price will be a reality in the not so distant future..
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post #2 of 154 Old 08-16-2010, 01:41 AM
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I've been searching for a fast led projector for Wii and other video games. I've been looking at the LG HX300 but haven't had alot of feedback on if it's any good for games, lag etc.

It looks like the Isival has a LCos chip and the HX300 just says "Latest DMD DLP Chip technology".

At this point I'm still going to wait and see if anything led 1080P shows up at Cedia for under 3k, but I'll keep this projector in mind.

Two of these with eyefinty looks nice, and it wouldn't cost that much.
Link

Dirt2 Eyefinty link.

Street fighter4 link

Henry poole test

Lady bug demo

I found a impressive video with some game clips on a blog. I haven't really looked at lcos projectors because they tend to be really expensive, does lcos provide faster display rate/less lag over regular dlp chip technology?

Edit: I did a quick google search and it seems regular dlp is the fastest and then lcos and lcd are about the same depending on what processor the projector uses?

From LCD vs LCOS on AVS "Basically, LCD and LCOS use the same liquid crystal technology. The difference between
the two is that with an LCD the light transmits through the LCD, whereas with the
LCOS, the back side of the crystal has a reflective electrode and light reflects and leaves
the LCOS from the same surface it entered.

That difference in geometry doesn't have anything to do with the response time of the
liquid crystal - so the two should / could be quite comparable."
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post #3 of 154 Old 08-16-2010, 06:49 AM
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200:1 contrast is a deal breaker IMO.
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post #4 of 154 Old 08-16-2010, 11:05 AM - Thread Starter
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LCoS is much faster than LCD in my testing. I am very sensitive to motion blur being used to my CRT HDTV, on my desktop monitor H213H Acer 21.5" 2ms display I see motion blur all the time..just by dragging a window on the computer even at a moderately slow speed it will immediately cause a streak. LCoS, in the iSival it's barely there much closer to a CRT, that I was surprised to see, didnt' expect that. I managed to watch FIFa Africa 2010 on it with no blur issues whatsoever. This translates well towards videogame, sports and movie content, particularly fast action movie scenes. I also didn't mention the black levels, they are on par with my Acer LCD..blacks are indeed dark grey but that is on an all black screen. Under normal viewing conditions the perceived contrast of blacks improve since you see a full range of color and brightness levels in a typical movie or videogame scene frame by frame for example, in other words you are seeing more than just black. So I'd say the blacks are similar to the mainstream projectors like the Optoma's..example HD65, HD20 etc..In the same ballpark...
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post #5 of 154 Old 08-16-2010, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heeman View Post

So I'd say the blacks are similar to the mainstream projectors like the Optoma's..example HD65, HD20 etc..In the same ballpark...

I don't share your optimism. Unfortunately, it doesn't look as though anybody will be testing this thing out so the world may never know.
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post #6 of 154 Old 08-17-2010, 02:38 AM
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I found a neat video where someone uses a mirror and this projector to make a huge image.

Here is a video of the iSival and pc street fighter 4 video recorded at 720p.

Here is a video test of guitar hero the poster says "Another game test..No input lag on this projector whatsoever."

Another video off youtube of two projectors set up to produce an ultra wide picture. I just don't like the line down the center of the two screens, I wonder if there is a way to minimize this?

Will using a high gain screen bump up the brightness of this projector?

Since the Wii maxes out at 480p will I get better results going with a 720p projector rather than a full 1080p?
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post #7 of 154 Old 08-17-2010, 06:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BBQ7 View Post

Will using a high gain screen bump up the brightness of this projector?

It will help, but keep in mind this is definitely not a bright projector... by any stretch of the imagination.

I don't see how it's watchable at 120 inches without severe eye strain. I'm not sure why you think there is input lag on a lot of these projectors, most home theater projectors are fine. Letting this particular projector scale your 480p to 720p might not come up with the best results.
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post #8 of 154 Old 08-17-2010, 07:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verge2 View Post

200:1 contrast is a deal breaker IMO.

I second that...

Even cheap LCD's carry more... I think even small pico projectors have more...

I Love Apple, BenQ, Samsung, and Acer Products = )
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post #9 of 154 Old 08-17-2010, 11:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chumpchange21 View Post

... I think even small pico projectors have more...

But what resolution? Look at my pics..you tell me a small PICO pocket projector will give you those shots at 80" inches..I don't think it will even come close..most PICOs are less than 30 lumens and have very low resolutions such as 640x480 which in my book will make souces such as videogames look like utter garbage...give it good contrast still garbage, 640x480 is a very pixilated resolution. Like I said in my first post..it's a compromise..if you're on a tight budget, it's comes down to a select few projectors..LED is cheaper, no lamps to ever replace..LG HS201 is too low resolution for gaming..so if I purchased that one I could't game on it at all..so it will be only for movie which is not worth it..at least iSival even with low contrast ratio, I can use it for all media thanks to the resolution, making the purchase worth it. The lumens really is enough sure it's not a light cannon..but it's fine, I have people over all the time..no one ever even once said it was too dark..the picture is a good watchable picture brightness wise. The whites are not LCD pure whites, it's more of a cloudish white, the same cloudish whites you see even on some televisions such as the LG Plasma 60PS11 which I am quite familiar with. To top it all off, I have not done any calibration so I could improve things further. I am using 1.0 gain screen..highter gain could help further if I decided to increase screen size beyond 80 inches or to just improve the whites.. When 1080P LED units finally arrive by LG, Samsung etc..then I'll go for those..this is stop gap..I could not hold out any longer. I was originally waiting for the LG HX300......but it's a no show in most consumer markets, and it's overpriced so it's best to hold out for better ones in a few years time. I hope you guys see my point.
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post #10 of 154 Old 08-17-2010, 12:25 PM
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The problem isn't this machine, it's me. I used to have an InFocus X1. I loved it. It was 800X600 but dim after about 5000 hours on the bulb. I currently watch a Mitsu 1600 which has higher resolution and is quite bright.

I want to escape from bulbs, so LEDs it is. But the ones that have good specs for Home Theater like the Sim2 or Runco cost at least $20,000. Then near the bottom are the LG 200 and LG 300 which are brighter than this machine but lower resolution.

I want low price, high resolution and brightness all at once in my LED projector.

I'm going to hold my breath until I get all three.
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post #11 of 154 Old 08-19-2010, 02:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heeman View Post

And finally a little bit of info. I was told by a representitave of iSival that currently there is a 1080P LED prototype inhouse, no release date but this means 1080P at hoefully an affordable price will be a reality in the not so distant future..

Do you think they would announce it at Cedia? What month did the 720p model come out last year?

If they could just bump up the light output and make it 1080p....
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post #12 of 154 Old 08-19-2010, 08:06 AM
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This is just another OEM from China, there's a few that has shown up on eBay in the past few months but with a different color box but completely identical engine.

I've been waiting for at least a 720p native LED projector with both decent light output (>500 lum) and contrast (>2000) for almost a year now and looks to still be waiting for another few months.
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post #13 of 154 Old 08-19-2010, 08:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tkchan007 View Post

This is just another OEM from China, there's a few that has shown up on eBay in the past few months but with a different color box but completely identical engine.

I've been waiting for at least a 720p native LED projector with both decent light output (>500 lum) and contrast (>2000) for almost a year now and looks to still be waiting for another few months.



Yup, i'm sure it's built to last as well..
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post #14 of 154 Old 08-19-2010, 01:56 PM - Thread Starter
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I emailed iSival about the projectors origins, sales support responded very quickly, here is what he had to say...

..."The iSival MP720B1 is manufactured in China. It has the different design to the white one and using the different system chipset, but the same LCOS chip"...

I think he is refering to the EnWo LED Projector...Anyway regardless were it's made it is designed to last 30,000 hours. If it can last near that without any issues then I will be very satisfied. The only part that worries me is the cooling fan..I've had cooling fans on my computers go bad over time, if this was to happen to a projector like the iSival it would have to be repaired or replaced which isn't easy to do yourself I assume..There would be downtime you cannot risk using such a device without proper cooling...
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post #15 of 154 Old 08-19-2010, 02:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heeman View Post

Anyway regardless were it's made it is designed to last 30,000 hours.


I bet
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post #16 of 154 Old 08-20-2010, 04:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heeman View Post

The only part that worries me is the cooling fan..I've had cooling fans on my computers go bad over time, if this was to happen to a projector like the iSival it would have to be repaired or replaced

But compared to some other projector repairs replacing a fan doesn't really sound all that hard.

The EnWo LED Projector seems to be a euro version.
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post #17 of 154 Old 08-22-2010, 08:27 AM
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I was deciding between this projector and the HX300g and ultimately went with the LG. But if Sival came out with a 1080p projector, I could live with the low lumens and contrast. GOt my fingers crossed for CEDIA.
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post #18 of 154 Old 08-22-2010, 10:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dontchaknow View Post

I was deciding between this projector and the HX300g and ultimately went with the LG. But if Sival came out with a 1080p projector, I could live with the low lumens and contrast. GOt my fingers crossed for CEDIA.

Why is resolution so important. Basically you said you don't care how awful the picture is as long as it has lots of pixels.
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post #19 of 154 Old 08-22-2010, 12:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Projector resolution also makes a picture look good....more resolution means more visible detail, sharper more defined image at bigger screen sizes, less visible pixels (less screen door effect), ability to sit closer to the screen and much more benefits related to videogames. Try playing a computer game at 800x480 on 80" screen with high contrast then try it at 1280x720 with lower contrast....The second one with lower contrast still looks much better, I know first hand....my friend used 800x600 projector for gaming a few years back, but gave it up due to bulb expenses.. Resolution is so important when it comes to videogames, and other multimedia stuff. The LG HX300 does seem good because the resolution is decent... The problem is the availability and the price seems a tad too high. I will be so excited to see 1080p LED finally hit the market. I ran my projector for 7 hours straight last night, and at least 4 hours every other night with no worries at all thanks to no lamps It's instant on/off worry free...that I really appreciate...
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post #20 of 154 Old 08-22-2010, 05:01 PM
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If nothing shows up at Cedia, this may be one of few options out there for heavy gaming use. I'd love 1080P, but I'll settle for 720 and wait another year or so. Replacing bulbs is just too costly when you know your going to be gaming alot.
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post #21 of 154 Old 08-22-2010, 07:14 PM
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I have 5000 hrs on the original bulb in my HC1500. It's still plenty bright for a 100" screen even with a little ambient light. I also paid $99 for a 3 year bulb warranty I haven't had to use yet. Personally I wouldn't buy something like one of these unless I was looking for a portable projector. Even then I don't think 60 lumens would cut it. You can get a better bulb based 720p projector for less than this costs.

I'm sure the increased resolution makes this look great compared to other pico projectors, but I would bet it looks like garbage compared to a bulb based unit. Resolution isn't everything quality optics also make a huge difference. When I switch from my Sharp 12K MK2 back to the HC1500 the picture looks really blurry. The lens in the iSival is probably a $2 piece of plastic.

I'm looking forward to LED as much as everyone else, but I am more interested in picture quality improvements and not getting mercury everywhere in the off chance a bulb explodes. But I'm not going to sacrifice every aspect of picture quality for an inferior LED unit.
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post #22 of 154 Old 08-23-2010, 07:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xlr231 View Post

The lens in the iSival is probably a $2 piece of plastic.


I'm sure it is...
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post #23 of 154 Old 08-23-2010, 07:42 PM - Thread Starter
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The LENS is made of GLASS... I asked them about the lens through iSival email support. They did not however give me exact specs such as the LENS F-STOP and how many elements the lens is comprised of...The lens can be cleaned with lens cleaner, it is safe to do so, will not harm the optical coating..but I normally use rubber air blower, the kind you can buy in camera shops...
On a side note I am having one issue with the projector. I see a greenish tint on greyscale test pattern towards the dark end..Some of the dark grey bars appear greenish. You only notice the greenish tint in very dark content such as very dark movie scene, it can be distracting. This could be an HDMI issue, or a defect..I informed sales support and they are looking into it. In the meantime I will try different sources and HDMI settings to see if I can fix this problem...Also I will be tweaking my capture setup to improve photographs of the projected images..and attempt over 100 inches...
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post #24 of 154 Old 08-27-2010, 11:20 AM
 
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Thanks for the photos. I must say, if the images are as good as the photos then I am impressed. I had a Sanyo PLV-Z3 for the last 5 years and that was a nightmare because FIRST I went through 2 bulb replacements priced @ $279 each, and SECOND there were $400 in repairs for polarizers which got cooked because of too much heat coming from those damn expensive Mercury lamps!

If the image are as good as in the photos then I definitely will buy this projector. I mostly watch HD TV (lots of cartoons such as "Family Guy", "King of the Hill", etc., HD series like "True Blood" and "Eureka") and a PLETHORA of Netflix BluRay movies all through the HDMI port so this projector is probably a good choice.

At $500 this is a great deal, considering that the best I can do otherwise is an NEC XGA Native Resolution at around $450 with a $175 bulb (that does last in eco mode a whooping 5000 hours which is remarkable and has a 2000:1 CR) however, it still is not true HD resolution nor does it have any digital (HDMI or DVI) input and the iSival is both HD res and has an HDMI input! Thinking of picking this up for Xmas. Will keep everyone informed. My only reservation is that they charge a 15% restocking fee (which is $75.00) - a lot to lose if this PJ doesn't deliver what I need!
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post #25 of 154 Old 08-27-2010, 09:48 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm getting better colors after changing some of my pc HDMI settings..The picture has more pop than before. Also movies should look better once I get a BlueRay player (all the videos I displayed are compressed material..) I just purchased the Hauppauge HD PVR so I can record hi def cable tv or stream it to my computer and projector..should be a blast to watch sports such as NHL hockey and my favourite shows, HD documentaries etc on the big screen
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post #26 of 154 Old 08-28-2010, 11:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OklahomaBear View Post

Thanks for the photos. I must say, if the images are as good as the photos then I am impressed. I had a Sanyo PLV-Z3 for the last 5 years and that was a nightmare because FIRST I went through 2 bulb replacements priced @ $279 each, and SECOND there were $400 in repairs for polarizers which got cooked because of too much heat coming from those damn expensive Mercury lamps!

If the image are as good as in the photos then I definitely will buy this projector. I mostly watch HD TV (lots of cartoons such as "Family Guy", "King of the Hill", etc., HD series like "True Blood" and "Eureka") and a PLETHORA of Netflix BluRay movies all through the HDMI port so this projector is probably a good choice.

At $500 this is a great deal, considering that the best I can do otherwise is an NEC XGA Native Resolution at around $450 with a $175 bulb (that does last in eco mode a whooping 5000 hours which is remarkable and has a 2000:1 CR) however, it still is not true HD resolution nor does it have any digital (HDMI or DVI) input and the iSival is both HD res and has an HDMI input! Thinking of picking this up for Xmas. Will keep everyone informed. My only reservation is that they charge a 15% restocking fee (which is $75.00) - a lot to lose if this PJ doesn't deliver what I need!

Blu-rays aren't going to look good on this thing. Screenshots make everything look 100x better. Wait for the next generation. The 500 dollar diamond in the rough is still alluding us.
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post #27 of 154 Old 08-29-2010, 07:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Finally got my Hauppauge HD PVR setup last night..It took me awhile to get it to work with microsoft media center edition for windows 7 using the beta driver.. High Definition cable television looks really good, even amazing at times on the projector..Very clean looking video with no motion blur at all even watching soccer match and sports highlights on TSN and Sportsnet. Images are displayed with way less artifacts compared to the highly compressed material I normally watch so the video source does make a big difference..Blueray will surely look better since it is not compressed at all..it's just logical...I'll post Hauppauge HD PVR images and videos output to iSival Led Prjector soon...
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post #28 of 154 Old 09-05-2010, 05:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heeman View Post

I have been using the iSival projector now for well over a month and for the $499 price tag

The price is now down to $475 on Amazon. This still seems like the cheapest most advanced led projector out there, still wondering if anything like this will come out of Cedia.
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post #29 of 154 Old 09-05-2010, 05:57 AM
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It has a 200:1 contrast ratio, how is that advanced....

I Love Apple, BenQ, Samsung, and Acer Products = )
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post #30 of 154 Old 09-05-2010, 03:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chumpchange21 View Post

It has a 200:1 contrast ratio, how is that advanced....

Lol.

Some places measured the other LEDs at around that as well despite manufacturer claims. People are raving about it's incredible picture, lol. I don't think a lot of these people have exp. with the nicer stuff out there.

If it makes you happy that is all that matters. Good luck making a videophile happy though.
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