JVC DLA-HD250 new entry level DILA - Page 19 - AVS Forum
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post #541 of 1856 Old 10-24-2010, 03:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fleaman View Post

But it still only has one hdmi out, correct?

Thought you had an hdmi tv too....

Yep, only one HDMI out. The 3311 has two outs. My tv is HDMI as well. I'm happy b/c I can turn off upscaling & disable output of non-digital connections over HDMI and let the pj do the video processing.

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post #542 of 1856 Old 10-24-2010, 04:50 PM
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I checked out the 3311 w/2 hdmi outs: it seems the 3311 has to be powered on for the hdmi to work, so no pass through when powered down. Which I guess would make the point of just 'powering up the tv only' not possible
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post #543 of 1856 Old 10-24-2010, 09:15 PM
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fleaman -- I'm feeding my HDTV set with the Component connections (& stereo audio) from my DirecTV DVR. I can't see any difference between Component and HDMI video on the "small" set. It only has stereo speakers, so there is no difference in sound either. That way I don't have to turn on my AVR just to watch TV.

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post #544 of 1856 Old 10-24-2010, 11:24 PM
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Yeah, right now I just use a monoprice 4x2 hdmi switcher as my AVR doesn't do hdm...works fine for my set up. Bottom line is that when the day comes for a hdmi AVR upgrade, 2 hdmi outs that pass w/o powering on will be the prerequisite.

anyhoo, this is too far OT for this thread
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post #545 of 1856 Old 10-25-2010, 02:04 AM
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Sounds like the 250 could be the new king of the sub $3K title but the fact that it lacks a CMS has me recalling the days of the original JVC's over saturated candy colors. I am eager to see just how accurate JVC's presets are on the HD250 (hopefully there are 'accurate' out of the box D65/6500K/REC709 settings). I am very interested in this unit and possibly the 'coming soon' RS40.

Jason
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post #546 of 1856 Old 10-25-2010, 02:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaGamePimp View Post

Sounds like the 250 could be the new king of the sub $3K title but the fact that it lacks a CMS has me recalling the days of the original JVC's over saturated candy colors. I am eager to see just how accurate JVC's presets are on the HD250 (hopefully there are 'accurate' out of the box D65/6500K/REC709 settings). I am very interested in this unit and possibly the 'coming soon' RS40.

Jason

Please read the earlier posts about this projector: It is exactly the same as the RS10 (HD350), apart from having a matt black case. No different firmware, no 'accurate' presets (that's the new RS40 that you might be confussing it with). The HD250/350/RS10 is oversaturated in colour terms, you can either live with it, add a Lumagen HDP and mitigate the colour quite well (though it still won't measure that close, it will appear better subjectively). Or you can buy a Duo or VideoEQ to provide outboard CMS to correct it perfectly. If you had the money for a Lumagen Radience I'd suggest you bought a new X7 to start with.

How do I know these things? I've done the HD350 thing; turn the colour down a bit>HDQ mitigate the colours bit>bought a VideoEQ and adjusted it spot on for a perfect rec709 result. For the price these are now selling at (almost half what I paid for mine ) these are fantastic projectors that blow the competition away IMHO: AE4000, Epson, etc. I paid pretty much the current price on top of what I sold an AE3000 for to buy my HD350, so it's clear that for the new low price I think a HD250 smokes the AE4000, etc.

Of course it isn't perfect, but read the threads in a few months on the X7 and X9. I'll bet there is something people don't like either. Don't get hung up trying to work out what 'improvements' the HD250 has...it's just an RS10/HD350.

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post #547 of 1856 Old 10-25-2010, 07:39 AM
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I would think there would be a variety of CMS products one could use without the HD250, including the product the Vango is using.

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post #548 of 1856 Old 10-25-2010, 07:54 AM
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I think its crazy to buy a HD250 and spend another upwards of 1000 dollars for a CMS. Just put that money toward an RS40 -

1. Will net out at same price
2. rs40- brighter, better contrast
3. Color performance- sure you can get "dead on" with an external unit, but come on, an accurate preset on the rs40 (even if its SLIGHTLY off) will be just fine. Also, you get 1 and 2 from above.
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post #549 of 1856 Old 10-25-2010, 09:02 AM
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I'm wondering if we could use the firmware for a HD350/750, which has a CMS and upgrade the 250 with it?

I wouldn't try it for sure

Does the CMS require some hardware or might it be only software? (Basically it's just a menu that has been removed)

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post #550 of 1856 Old 10-25-2010, 12:17 PM
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My HD250 was shipped out from AVS last Friday, I should be getting it on Thursday! It's going to be a long week this week.
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post #551 of 1856 Old 10-25-2010, 12:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pitou View Post

I'm wondering if we could use the firmware for a HD350/750, which has a CMS and upgrade the 250 with it?

I wouldn't try it for sure

Does the CMS require some hardware or might it be only software? (Basically it's just a menu that has been removed)

Pitou!

What's wrong with you. The HD350 doesn't have a cms. Why do people randomly post comments that are just plain wrong?
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post #552 of 1856 Old 10-25-2010, 12:47 PM
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Quote:


What's wrong with you. The HD350 doesn't have a cms. Why do people randomly post comments that are just plain wrong?

Sorry, I was reading these reviews and mixed up both. So the 750 has one, but, you're right, not the 350.

http://www.avforums.com/reviews/JVC-...or-Review.html
http://www.avforums.com/reviews/JVC-...or-review.html

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post #553 of 1856 Old 10-25-2010, 12:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaGamePimp View Post

Sounds like the 250 could be the new king of the sub $3K title but the fact that it lacks a CMS has me recalling the days of the original JVC's over saturated candy colors. I am eager to see just how accurate JVC's presets are on the HD250 (hopefully there are 'accurate' out of the box D65/6500K/REC709 settings). I am very interested in this unit and possibly the 'coming soon' RS40.

Jason

If it is like the RS15 there is no Rec. 709 colorspace in the units without the CMS. They can be made to look very similar to the units with them. A very tiny percentage of people using CMS systems actually do much better with them.
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post #554 of 1856 Old 10-25-2010, 01:39 PM
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Well that just put the JVC HD250 off my 'future' list once again, thanks for the input guys . There is no way I am going back-wards after having calibrated displays for years. I guess JVC's logic is leave the feature out on purpose to drive more sales of the more expensive models, hooray for them, boo for us.

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post #555 of 1856 Old 10-25-2010, 05:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaGamePimp View Post

Well that just put the JVC HD250 off my 'future' list once again, thanks for the input guys . There is no way I am going back-wards after having calibrated displays for years. I guess JVC's logic is leave the feature out on purpose to drive more sales of the more expensive models, hooray for them, boo for us.

Jason

The RS40 will have a Rec709 setting.........

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post #556 of 1856 Old 10-26-2010, 08:30 AM
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Is anyone, or, has anyone had their unit calibrated? Also, to anyone that does calibration, how is the picture afterwards? I will probably get mine calibrated sometime in the new year. The reds do "stick out" a bit. For everything this projector does right, at least for me, it is well worth it. This is the first screen/tv that i have owned that gives me the black levels I always wanted. I watched my first non-HD movie on it yesterday. Its a yearly tradition for my family to watch ghostbusters before halloween. Overall, I was impressed.
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post #557 of 1856 Old 10-26-2010, 09:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelvin1965S View Post

Please read the earlier posts about this projector: It is exactly the same as the RS10 (HD350), apart from having a matt black case. No different firmware, no 'accurate' presets (that's the new RS40 that you might be confussing it with). The HD250/350/RS10 is oversaturated in colour terms, you can either live with it, add a Lumagen HDP and mitigate the colour quite well (though it still won't measure that close, it will appear better subjectively). Or you can buy a Duo or VideoEQ to provide outboard CMS to correct it perfectly. If you had the money for a Lumagen Radience I'd suggest you bought a new X7 to start with.

How do I know these things? I've done the HD350 thing; turn the colour down a bit>HDQ mitigate the colours bit>bought a VideoEQ and adjusted it spot on for a perfect rec709 result. For the price these are now selling at (almost half what I paid for mine ) these are fantastic projectors that blow the competition away IMHO: AE4000, Epson, etc. I paid pretty much the current price on top of what I sold an AE3000 for to buy my HD350, so it's clear that for the new low price I think a HD250 smokes the AE4000, etc.

Of course it isn't perfect, but read the threads in a few months on the X7 and X9. I'll bet there is something people don't like either. Don't get hung up trying to work out what 'improvements' the HD250 has...it's just an RS10/HD350.

Agreed. I'll also add that the vast majority of people don't even know what the colors look like calibrated as most displays do NOT have CMS. This is the norm, not the exception. In my opinion CMS is WAY over emphasized to be the end all be all (of course when one is used to a fully calibrated color display it can be hard to switch back, but that isn't my point).
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post #558 of 1856 Old 10-26-2010, 09:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sSolar View Post

Is anyone, or, has anyone had their unit calibrated? Also, to anyone that does calibration, how is the picture afterwards? I will probably get mine calibrated sometime in the new year. The reds do "stick out" a bit. For everything this projector does right, at least for me, it is well worth it. This is the first screen/tv that i have owned that gives me the black levels I always wanted. I watched my first non-HD movie on it yesterday. Its a yearly tradition for my family to watch ghostbusters before halloween. Overall, I was impressed.

I have done quite a few calibrations on the HD250 so far...though they all vary in how they start, you can get them pretty decent afterwords, especially the grayscale and gamma.
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post #559 of 1856 Old 10-26-2010, 10:17 AM
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Thats good news Jason. I am watching beetlejuice right now actually. Not a bad picture for daytime at all. I have 3 days of vacation left lol. I was also wondering if its normal for 3 panel-type displays to have minor convergence errors. I notice the red to be a hair out of alignment. The pixel convergence in the menu settings is a bit too coarse of adjustment. Is this normal?
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post #560 of 1856 Old 10-26-2010, 01:08 PM
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No 3 chip projector...any...even $100k+ units will have perfect convergence. That being said, JVC does offer 1 pixel shift, which as you have found isn't very helpful in most situations.

Couple that with the fact you are probably also seeing chromatic aberration (lens function)...
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post #561 of 1856 Old 10-26-2010, 02:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Turk View Post

No 3 chip projector...any...even $100k+ units will have perfect convergence. That being said, JVC does offer 1 pixel shift, which as you have found isn't very helpful in most situations.

Couple that with the fact you are probably also seeing chromatic aberration (lens function)...

I had to look up chromatic aberration.

I found this
http://toothwalker.org/optics/chromatic.html

It was very helpful. Sounds like you hit the nail on head with what I'm seeing. Its not enough to worry about though. It was mostly noticable from about 5-6ft away. Thanks
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post #562 of 1856 Old 10-26-2010, 03:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Turk View Post

I have done quite a few calibrations on the HD250 so far...though they all vary in how they start, you can get them pretty decent afterwords, especially the grayscale and gamma.

How much variance are you seeing? Are you ending up using similar offsets, gains, and gamma modifications?
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post #563 of 1856 Old 10-26-2010, 05:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sSolar View Post

I had to look up chromatic aberration.

I found this
http://toothwalker.org/optics/chromatic.html

It was very helpful. Sounds like you hit the nail on head with what I'm seeing. Its not enough to worry about though. It was mostly noticable from about 5-6ft away. Thanks

Crap...I forget that unlike myself, most people didn't go to school for optical engineering.

Basically as light goes through another surface (glass/plastic/water/etc....) different wavelengths "bend" at different rates. It is due to the difference in the index of refraction between the 2 materials. It is near impossible to eliminate, but the better the lens the better it can adjust for it. That being said, it is often a common reason that people see red/blue "haze" around letting and such and is often confused with convergence. Of course some displays have both things occuring, making one think there convergence is worse than it may really be...
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post #564 of 1856 Old 10-26-2010, 05:41 PM
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lol yeah I come from a CCTV and alarm background. Still the most I've had to deal with is IR corrected lenses and 1/3" mount 1/2" mount etc. Among different lightning conditions. IR corrected lenses deal with infarad light arriving at the ccd at a different length(point) than the "picture". kinda of the same but different. Nope, no optical engineering here so big words sometimes get the best of me lol.
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post #565 of 1856 Old 10-26-2010, 06:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Turk View Post

No 3 chip projector...any...even $100k+ units will have perfect convergence. That being said, JVC does offer 1 pixel shift, which as you have found isn't very helpful in most situations.

Couple that with the fact you are probably also seeing chromatic aberration (lens function)...

Working on it. There might be a fix for CA and pixel shift.

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post #566 of 1856 Old 10-26-2010, 07:38 PM
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What HDMI setting would you suggest for calibration, "enhanced" to pass BTB and WTW and adjust contrast/brightness accordingly or "standard" and let the contrast/brightness at 0?

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post #567 of 1856 Old 10-27-2010, 06:27 AM
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You really have to experiment as different sources look better with different settings...
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post #568 of 1856 Old 10-28-2010, 03:32 AM
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First attempt, yestderday, to calibrate the greyscale.

I didn't succeed (wasn't happy) using only the Gain and Offset. It was very hard to get all the patterns right.

Until I discovered that by playing with the red and blue gamma for each IRE, it would finally work. Strangely, I had to do the same with my previous PJ, a Sanyo Z2000, i.e. playing with the gamma. Afterward, I did use the "white" gamma to get a flat 2.2 gamma.

Is that normal that I have to use the gamma instead of the Gain/Offset?

Thank you.

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post #569 of 1856 Old 10-28-2010, 04:07 AM
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I was on the band wagon for this new PJ until the CMS discussions started. Now I do not know, due to mainly not understanding exactly what CMS does or does not do. In my current PJ setup (Mits HC6000) I was able to adjust the settings (tint, color, brightness, contrasts, etc.) to get the picture we currently have. This was also helped by other members posting there settings.

So the key question is can I do this with the HD250? I move around a lot (about every year and a half) and cannot get my setup calibrated by a projessional each time. If not does this mean I will have to buy something else to make it work? I have no problem buying something like Eye-One to setup the colors, but cannot see buying something that cost around a $1,000.

Another question is presets? From what I have read the HD250 does not have presets. Is this correct? Does it have the capabilities to save settings. My HC6000 has this capability.

What exactly does the calibration (that can be done by AVS) do? Is this for setting up the color, brightness, contrast, etc?

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post #570 of 1856 Old 10-28-2010, 04:42 AM
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I too was going to get this PJ but feel I would be better off with the RS40. I would be pretty upset with oversaturated colors, neon greens, sunburn skintones and wasn't able to get them corrected.

I am so anxiously awaiting for Art to review both the hd250/rs40
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