JVC DLA-HD250 new entry level DILA - Page 22 - AVS Forum
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post #631 of 1856 Old 11-05-2010, 08:03 PM
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Originally Posted by ravisudhir View Post

I have been using the 250 for the past few days. It replaced DLP PJ and the biggest issue I have is that the picture appears too soft. I adjusted the focus, played around with sharpness, image detail, etc, but still not happy.

My screen is 136" and throw is 18'. There is some zoom, but not a lot. The picture looks as if noise reduction has been applied. There seems to be an option for Noise reduction (NR), but it is grayed out. Is there a way to tweak NR? Is there anything else I can do?

Ravi

What DLP pj are you comparing to? If it was a single chip....it was probably sharper.
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post #632 of 1856 Old 11-05-2010, 08:53 PM
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Yes, it was a single chip DLP, Optoma H77.
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post #633 of 1856 Old 11-05-2010, 09:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ravisudhir View Post

Yes, it was a single chip DLP, Optoma H77.

Disconcerting that the softness was that noticable to you since the H77's weren't known to have that great of a lens, even if they are single chip DLP's (I would have hoped the HD250 would have only been slightly softer).

Did you mess with the Detail Enhancement controls? (is that the same as the 'image enhancement' you mentioned?).
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post #634 of 1856 Old 11-05-2010, 09:49 PM
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Blu-ray or DVD? I have found not surprisingly that the blu-ray sources look much, much better. BTW, set mode to enhanced.

Also, seems like a quite large screen for a paint screen. If you zoom down to say 100" diagonal, does that fix it?
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post #635 of 1856 Old 11-05-2010, 10:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ravisudhir View Post

Yes, it was a single chip DLP, Optoma H77.

Sorry if this seems obvious (but just trying to rule things out): Since the H77 wasn't capable of 1080p or hdmi, are you in fact sending a 1080p hdmi signal to it (HD250) now?
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post #636 of 1856 Old 11-06-2010, 03:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prigstad View Post

Currently the top of my image is a little more narrow than the bottom and I over scan a little to compensate. When I say a little it's like 10 pixels wider (that's about 0.5%). I could fix it with keystone or now that I think about it perhaps if I level the projector front to back by lowering the front or raising the back a little more it would resolve the problem. I'll have to play with that this evening. I've also noticed that some content off my DVR can be a little under scanned or noisy on the edges so a little overscan fixes that

Best to adjust the legs on the projector to bring the image square to the screen and then use a touch of lens shift to realign it. As you say lowering the front/raising the back should do it, much preferable to using keystone.

I finished the calibration on my similar HD350 this week and I use an external CMS (VideoEQ Pro). I got just about perfect results using a rental i1Pro sensor, so I'm now enjoying a fantastic, accurate picture. My own i1LT sensor was quite a long way out so my previous calibrations were off. Now that it's adjusted correctly (and the colours are spot on) the picture seems more detailed and has more depth (possibly as I've opened the iris to give me 12fL rather than the 6fL or so I had before ). I watched two films last night ('Back to the Future Pt1' and 'Sex & drugs & Rock & Roll') and they both looked superb...hope to watch more this evening.

I'm debating if I dare go to the UK launch of the new DLA-X models as currently I've not seen a better projector image than I now have, so maybe ignorance is bliss.

Zooming: Been there, done that, bought the lens...
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post #637 of 1856 Old 11-06-2010, 05:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScofieldKid View Post

Blu-ray or DVD? I have found not surprisingly that the blu-ray sources look much, much better. BTW, set mode to enhanced.

Also, seems like a quite large screen for a paint screen. If you zoom down to say 100" diagonal, does that fix it?

The screen worked great with Optoma H77 in a dediacted light controlled room. It has a gain of about 1.

The softness is noticeable more in 720P signal via HDMI (Dish network) than Blu-ray, but still there is both. I used to run 720p signal from Dish to Optoma(DVI) and the picture was sharper, not necessarily better. Outputting 1080P via HDMI with 250 is definitely softer than 720P to Optoma. Colors are different, blacks are deeper but the difference is disappointingly minimal and the softness is bothersome.

I did not set the HDMI to enhanced, though. I will try that.
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post #638 of 1856 Old 11-06-2010, 06:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ravisudhir View Post

The screen worked great with Optoma H77 in a dediacted light controlled room. It has a gain of about 1.

The softness is noticeable more in 720P signal via HDMI (Dish network) than Blu-ray, but still there is both. I used to run 720p signal from Dish to Optoma(DVI) and the picture was sharper, not necessarily better. Outputting 1080P via HDMI with 250 is definitely softer than 720P to Optoma. Colors are different, blacks are deeper but the difference is disappointingly minimal and the softness is bothersome.

I did not set the HDMI to enhanced, though. I will try that.

HDMI enhanced has to do with the black and white levels. But you should probably use enhanced as it is believed to cover the complete range as opposed to standard.

I came from a Sharp 720p DLP as I mentioned in earlier in this thread. I ran DVI to the Sharp and Blu-ray on the 250 is 1080p is leaps and bounds above the Sharp in all aspects of the picture. To bad we don't what other things are going on in your system. The 250 to MY eyes doesn't look any less sharp.

As you prolly knew going in, any three chip device won't always look as sharp as a one chip device. That is the nature of things. However, if the 250 doesn't look as sharp as you would like then you may want to stick with a single chip DLP.

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post #639 of 1856 Old 11-06-2010, 06:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ravisudhir View Post

The screen worked great with Optoma H77 in a dediacted light controlled room. It has a gain of about 1.

The softness is noticeable more in 720P signal via HDMI (Dish network) than Blu-ray, but still there is both. I used to run 720p signal from Dish to Optoma(DVI) and the picture was sharper, not necessarily better. Outputting 1080P via HDMI with 250 is definitely softer than 720P to Optoma. Colors are different, blacks are deeper but the difference is disappointingly minimal and the softness is bothersome.

I did not set the HDMI to enhanced, though. I will try that.

Sounds like you're accustomed to the better ANSI contrast and the sharpness of single chip DLP. However, if you're feeding the HD250 with 720p it is then upscaling, so that is more understandable as there must be some softening caused by this compared to your H77 at native resolution. Is there not an option to output from your Disc at 1080i which will at least retain pixel mapping although it will rely on the HD250 to deinterlace to 1080p?

Also try adjusting the pixel shift controls to see if there is a more optimal setting for your machine. It's unlikely as they only move in 1 pixel steps, but worth checking to make sure (it's probably already at optimum unless someone has been fiddling). Don't ramp up the detail or edge enhancement controls as they will only introduce noise and ringing (plus I believe they have an adverse effect on motion adding to blur/judder).

Finally, although you say your room is dedicated, does it have dark walls/ceiling? If not then much of the improvement would be lost due to wall reflections (though you should still see a better fade to black even in a white room due to the higher on/off CR).

If you do change to HDMI enhanced, you will need to offset your brightness and contrast to match. A good starting point would be -6 brightness and +6 contrast (I just calibrated mine, but I use a VideoEQ CMS and have -7 and +6 on mine FWIW). If you are in Auto mode and set to 0,0 (for 'Normal' HDMI) sometimes the projector will change to Enhanced by itself which will make the image look very washed out, due to the wrong brightness setting).

Zooming: Been there, done that, bought the lens...
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post #640 of 1856 Old 11-06-2010, 07:56 AM
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Generally single chip DLP's are the sharpest...period. There are many reasons for this, but, it does sound like something else is going on. Also, enhanced does nothing for sharpness. It could be the convergence is out of wack on the JVC, though that is relatively rare with them.
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post #641 of 1856 Old 11-06-2010, 10:33 AM
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Anyone gone from Epson 8500 or 8100 to this projector? how do they compare in contrast and brightness in calibrated settings?
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post #642 of 1856 Old 11-06-2010, 10:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tigerfan33 View Post

Anyone gone from Epson 8500 or 8100 to this projector? how do they compare in contrast and brightness in calibrated settings?

Please use the link to see a review/comparison between the UB8500 and the JVC RS10 (same internals supposedly as the 250).
JVC is brighter.
http://www.projectorreviews.com/epso...ompetitors.php
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post #643 of 1856 Old 11-06-2010, 10:41 AM
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The JVC is far superior in brightness and contrast than the Epson, especially when calibrated. The Epson tests out at best around 650-700 lumens, vs. about 950-1000 for the JVC (assuming similar setups). Contrast on the Epson with iris maxes at about 19k:1...JVC between 27k and 30k:1. These numbers are my results after fully calibrating many different units and taking measurements on those said units...not just 1 projector each.
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post #644 of 1856 Old 11-06-2010, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpc View Post

1/3 of a pixel? Where? near the centre or near the edge? If it's near the edge, like 25% away from the centre that sounds pretty good. I think the times I warranteed my old Hitachi TX100 and 200's it was like a whole pixel off and it was closer to the centre, like between 25% close to the edge and the centre.

You must level your projector and eliminate keystoning completely. Keystone adjustment is really just a feature that should be used for presentations, not for video/film.

The red alignment is right on on the right side of the screen and progressively gets worse from right to left until it's about a 1/3 to maybe 1/2 of a pixel too high. Seems the red D-ILA chip is tilted ever so slightly. That's still not all that bad.

Finished leveling the projector and it now lines up with no keystoning effects.
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post #645 of 1856 Old 11-06-2010, 12:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ahard View Post

HDMI enhanced has to do with the black and white levels. But you should probably use enhanced as it is believed to cover the complete range as opposed to standard.

I came from a Sharp 720p DLP as I mentioned in earlier in this thread. I ran DVI to the Sharp and Blu-ray on the 250 is 1080p is leaps and bounds above the Sharp in all aspects of the picture. To bad we don't what other things are going on in your system. The 250 to MY eyes doesn't look any less sharp.

As you prolly knew going in, any three chip device won't always look as sharp as a one chip device. That is the nature of things. However, if the 250 doesn't look as sharp as you would like then you may want to stick with a single chip DLP.

I tried using the a THX dvd calibration image for a quick brighteness and contrast adjustment and found I needed to use the standard HDMI output from the Blu-ray player and enhanced in the 250 to see the black drop shaddows in the THX image. I haven't tried enhanced for both.
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post #646 of 1856 Old 11-06-2010, 03:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Turk View Post
Generally single chip DLP's are the sharpest...period. There are many reasons for this, but, it does sound like something else is going on. Also, enhanced does nothing for sharpness. It could be the convergence is out of wack on the JVC, though that is relatively rare with them.
I'll wait for sometime for the burn-in and have it calibrated. It is possible that I will get used to this kind of picture and that there is nothing wrong. I have been using the DLP for 5 years and also have a DLP rear projection TV in the living room. May be I am just used to that kind of picture.

Ravi
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post #647 of 1856 Old 11-06-2010, 04:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ravisudhir View Post
I'll wait for sometime for the burn-in and have it calibrated. It is possible that I will get used to this kind of picture and that there is nothing wrong. I have been using the DLP for 5 years and also have a DLP rear projection TV in the living room. May be I am just used to that kind of picture.

Ravi
It won't get sharper from 'burn in'. Or calibration (unless the brightness/contrast adjustments are way off).

How is your convergence?

Also, remember that the 720p DLP pixel grid lines (boxes) are darker, thicker and more noticable than the 1080p LCOS pixel lines. Up close enough to see the pixels, the pixel lines themselves will appear sharper than the less distinct LCOS pixel lines, so this can give the impression of 'sharpness'. PJ's with less SDE can appear softer, but on video content (not desktops), the difference, at a normal viewing distance, shouldn't be that noticable.
I assume you're judging the sharpness from a good viewing distance? Like 1.2x screen width min.?
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post #648 of 1856 Old 11-06-2010, 07:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ravisudhir View Post
I'll wait for sometime for the burn-in and have it calibrated. It is possible that I will get used to this kind of picture and that there is nothing wrong. I have been using the DLP for 5 years and also have a DLP rear projection TV in the living room. May be I am just used to that kind of picture.

Ravi
Exactly.
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post #649 of 1856 Old 11-07-2010, 04:53 AM
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Is there any motion blur when watching sports?

I had it on Epson 8100 but not the 8500. I guess due to the FI on the 8500.
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post #650 of 1856 Old 11-07-2010, 05:24 AM
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Are there any members using this PJ with a High Power 2.4 gain screen?

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post #651 of 1856 Old 11-07-2010, 05:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prigstad View Post

The red alignment is right on on the right side of the screen and progressively gets worse from right to left until it's about a 1/3 to maybe 1/2 of a pixel too high. Seems the red D-ILA chip is tilted ever so slightly. That's still not all that bad.

Finished leveling the projector and it now lines up with no keystoning effects.

I wonder if some amount of vertical and/or horizontal lens shift would change the convergence you are getting. Is your projector ceiling mounted? If so, then I guess it's not worth experimenting. If it is shelf mounted, you could try to move it up and down and left and right a few inches if there is room. Just curious. Still, your convergence doesn't sound too bad, but I suppose we'll have to hear what other people are seeing with their HD250's.
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post #652 of 1856 Old 11-07-2010, 06:15 AM
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So did we deside that its 96Hz not 60Hz as stated by the sales people?

My local dealer offer me ther floor modle (550) for $2999 would this be worth it used? Thay offeref me a 4 year service (including two bulbs) for $550?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Woof Woof View Post

Even on my old JVC HD1 (aka RS1), 24p material gets doubled to 48p and then displayed at 96Hz. I have no idea why the HD250 would do it any differently and in fact, worse to 60p.

The HD250 doesn't have the new 120Hz motion creation mode of the X3/RS40 nor the older buggy one of the RS15 series, but it doesn't seem as juddery as on my older AE3000 with frame creation disabled.

I don't watch sports so have not seen any funky rainbows on referree jerseys but I can tell 24p is a bit more juddery than my older AE3000 with Mode 2 frame creation (which was what I normally used).

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post #653 of 1856 Old 11-07-2010, 07:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpc View Post

I wonder if some amount of vertical and/or horizontal lens shift would change the convergence you are getting. Is your projector ceiling mounted? If so, then I guess it's not worth experimenting. If it is shelf mounted, you could try to move it up and down and left and right a few inches if there is room. Just curious. Still, your convergence doesn't sound too bad, but I suppose we'll have to hear what other people are seeing with their HD250's.

I played around with lens shift and it has no effect on my red divergence.
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post #654 of 1856 Old 11-07-2010, 07:12 AM
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Originally Posted by MegaToad View Post

So did we deside that its 96Hz not 60Hz as stated by the sales people?

My local dealer offer me ther floor modle (550) for $2999 would this be worth it used? Thay offeref me a 4 year service (including two bulbs) for $550?

Main difference is the FI...whether that is worth the increase in price is hard to anyone to answer but you.
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post #655 of 1856 Old 11-07-2010, 07:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prigstad View Post

I played around with lens shift and it has no effect on my red divergence.

Well this wouldn't fix convergence...that is a function of chip alignment. But increased lens shift can add chromatic aberration...often confused with convergence issues.
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post #656 of 1856 Old 11-07-2010, 07:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MegaToad View Post

So did we deside that its 96Hz not 60Hz as stated by the sales people?

My local dealer offer me ther floor modle (550) for $2999 would this be worth it used? Thay offeref me a 4 year service (including two bulbs) for $550?


That is a big price increase for a used 550 compared to what you can get a new 250 for. You would have to really LOVE FI to pay the dif IMO (not to mention going used instead of new). Hell, for not much more, you could get a new RS40! You cant beat him down anymore than that?

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post #657 of 1856 Old 11-07-2010, 10:17 AM
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Still can't believe how great this projector looks, showed Disneynature's Oceans Blu-ray to a few friends last night and they were blown away!

I am noticing one minor drawback. Every minute or so there will be a very brief hiccup or pause in the picture. Kind of hard to explain other than maybe someone pressing the pause button for half a second. I was the only one to notice it, so not a big deal.

Anyone else noticing this with their HD250?

I'm trying to determine if it's coming from the Blu-ray (Sony BDP-S470) or receiver(Onkyo TX-NR708). I guess the next step is to turn off all video processing other than the projector.
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post #658 of 1856 Old 11-07-2010, 10:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Turk View Post

The JVC is far superior in brightness and contrast than the Epson, especially when calibrated. The Epson tests out at best around 650-700 lumens, vs. about 950-1000 for the JVC (assuming similar setups). Contrast on the Epson with iris maxes at about 19k:1...JVC between 27k and 30k:1. These numbers are my results after fully calibrating many different units and taking measurements on those said units...not just 1 projector each.

Does this apply to the newer HD250? I'm asking this because I have a relatively large screen (12 foot wide 2.35:1 with DIY Anamorphic lens; the projector was an infocus x10 21 feet away with the maunal iris closed at 73) and I want to know if it's comparable in brightness to that projector. I am also interested in the newer RS40 (no production models yet I know), which I heard is 50 percent brighter than previous models, making it very compelling for me for 2D.
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post #659 of 1856 Old 11-07-2010, 10:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryan.Pierce View Post

Still can't believe how great this projector looks, showed Disneynature's Oceans Blu-ray to a few friends last night and they were blown away!

I am noticing one minor drawback. Every minute or so there will be a very brief hiccup or pause in the picture. Kind of hard to explain other than maybe someone pressing the pause button for half a second. I was the only one to notice it, so not a big deal.

Anyone else noticing this with their HD250?

I'm trying to determine if it’s coming from the Blu-ray (Sony BDP-S470) or receiver(Onkyo TX-NR708). I guess the next step is to turn off all video processing other than the projector.


I have the same EXACT issue with my Epson 1080UB PRO. It only happens on blu-ray and DVD's/games don't do that. I've troubleshooted many things and even tried another PS3 and HDMI cable and it's still there (when it happens). Even tried an HDMI booster for my 35ft cable....nadda. I just live with it and hope it goes away when I eventually get the 250......
PS. even tried a replacement receiver with video processing set to 'pass through'.......

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post #660 of 1856 Old 11-07-2010, 10:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryan.Pierce View Post

Still can't believe how great this projector looks, showed Disneynature's Oceans Blu-ray to a few friends last night and they were blown away!

I am noticing one minor drawback. Every minute or so there will be a very brief hiccup or pause in the picture. Kind of hard to explain other than maybe someone pressing the pause button for half a second. I was the only one to notice it, so not a big deal.

Anyone else noticing this with their HD250?

I'm trying to determine if it's coming from the Blu-ray (Sony BDP-S470) or receiver(Onkyo TX-NR708). I guess the next step is to turn off all video processing other than the projector.

Sounds like an HDCP issue...not a projector issue. Are you going straight from your player into the projector, or through a receiver/switch? Also, what sort of cable are you using and how long?
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