JVC DLA-HD250 new entry level DILA - Page 25 - AVS Forum
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post #721 of 1856 Old 11-11-2010, 06:00 AM
 
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Eddy,

1. A gray/black screen with some gain seems like a good fit for your situation. If you are going to ceiling mount which sounds like a good idea for your situation you'll need an angular refletive screen. I haven't used a Black Diamond but spec wise it seems a little better than a Stewart Firehawk which I have used and either could work for your situation. Stewart's new 5D might be an option as well, but I haven't used it yet. I'm going to Stewart in Jan. for their training so maybe I'll have a better opinion then.

2. A good screen makes a difference especially in this situation. I wouldn't skimp here. In a dark room with dark walls and ceiling an inexpensive white screen would satisfy most but in your situation a good screen is worth the extra $.

3. The max a BD screen is seemless is 113", I'd try to stay seemless if possible. I'd look at something around that size to have good picture quality with a good amount of light. Also, keep in mind that bulbs age pretty quickly and will often have less than 50% output by the end of their rated life. Everybody wants the biggest size screen they can fit but sometimes it is not always practical. And what about audio? Being and audiophile this will be important to you. Getting the biggest screen size so you can put speakers into corners, and the center near the floor or ceiling is not going to give good audio. Just another consideration, bigger is not always better. A big acoustically transparent screen with the speakers behind the screen for good audio and video, now your talking. But bring money because you'd need a PJ with lot more lumens:-)

4. The further back the projector is mounted the less lumens you get out of it. You lose about 25% of the lumens from the closest position to the furthest position with the JVC projectors. But mounting further back can often reduce hot spotting with gain screens, depends on the screen. There are tradeoffs with mounting positions but something to keep in mind when determining which screen and size. Use one of the online calculators for figuring foot lamberts and try to get at least 30 ft/l with a new bulb for your environment. With ambient light more ft/l is better. The JVC has enough lens shift that ceiling mounting shouldn't be a problem and you wouldn't need keystoning.

Hope this helps.

Bob
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post #722 of 1856 Old 11-11-2010, 06:22 AM
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Getting back to the "enhanced HDMI " mode, could someone just put it in plain english if it is recommended or not? Recommend for modern Blu-ray content that is...
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post #723 of 1856 Old 11-11-2010, 06:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Bryan.Pierce View Post

Getting back to the "enhanced HDMI " mode, could someone just put it in plain english if it is recommended or not? Recommend for modern Blu-ray content that is...

Did you read the links I posted? That would be a start.

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post #724 of 1856 Old 11-11-2010, 09:01 AM
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Originally Posted by ahard View Post


Did you read the links I posted? That would be a start.

I started to read them, then I got lazy.
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post #725 of 1856 Old 11-11-2010, 09:16 AM
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Originally Posted by eddy37erin View Post

Ok, I'm trying to decide between the HD250 and the RS40. Will wait until reviews on the RS40 come out to finally decide if it is worth the extra 50% cost.

50% dif MSRP, but not even close to 50% dif street price (assuming they have the pre-order price still which they may not).........have you called AVS?

JVC 3D: Been there, done that, bought a DLP
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post #726 of 1856 Old 11-11-2010, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by tigerfan33 View Post

Seems like I read somewhere here that on the RS10 you can go into the service menu and change the iris settings that will give you 16 instead of 3 option with the iris the same as the RS20. If true can you do the same with the 250 and what are the steps?

You still only have 3 settings, but you can set the three to any of the 16 steps to customize it to your enviroinment. search the RS10 thread for the steps to do this.

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post #727 of 1856 Old 11-11-2010, 12:22 PM
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Someone needs to start a FAQ's section for this PJ, or at least for JVC's.
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post #728 of 1856 Old 11-11-2010, 01:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RodK View Post


You still only have 3 settings, but you can set the three to any of the 16 steps to customize it to your enviroinment. search the RS10 thread for the steps to do this.

Can you set the 3 level setting to be brighter than the current default setting?
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post #729 of 1856 Old 11-11-2010, 01:05 PM
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1 and 2 can be brighter, but 3 should be wide open

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post #730 of 1856 Old 11-11-2010, 01:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RodK View Post

1 and 2 can be brighter, but 3 should be wide open

Cool. Thanks!!!
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post #731 of 1856 Old 11-11-2010, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by tigerfan33 View Post

Cool. Thanks!!!

I get the impression you thought the answer to your question was yes...it isn't incase you weren't clear on that I'm afraid: The factory setting for '3' is already as bright as the projector will go (apart from changing the lamp to high power of course), so you can't make it any brighter by adjusting the iris in the service menu. I just use this hidden feature to match my 1.85:1 non lens setting to my 2.35:1 with lens setting for example (3 clicks different in my case). This way I get the same 12-14fL (depending on how truthfull I think the 1.5 gain screen figure is, probably nearer 1.3 which would give me 12fL). I'm using '7' for my current 2.35:1 with lens setting (at 550 hours on the lamp, in high power) so I have 6 more clicks to go as the lamp dims with age, before I run out of brightness. Having smaller steps allows me to maintain the same brightness level as the lamp ages (but it helps that I've got enough brightness to start with).

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post #732 of 1856 Old 11-11-2010, 01:41 PM
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Nope. I understood. 3 is wide open which is fine with me. I am shooting form a HP 2.4 and just got the 250 today. I really don't know why I am looking for more settings to adjust.

The settings on the 250 are fine for me. I am no video expert. I think some people get their display and never really learn to enjoy it. That's fine if people choose to do that. I will tinker with my settings and so what if the color is off or greyscale cannot be perfect. I am fine with that. If I wasn't satisfied, I would have waited for the RS40/50/60.

I do have another question. When I set up my 250 I went through the menu and saw deep color 8 bit. Is that correct. I was watching blu ray at the time.
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post #733 of 1856 Old 11-11-2010, 02:00 PM
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If your BluRay player is outputting in 8 bit (as most do) then this is correct. I have a DVDO Edge and use it to 'upscale' the 8 bit to 10 bit (my VideoEQ Pro works better with more bits to play with so to speak). My HD350 then shows 10bit on the info page of the menu.

BTW. With a HD350/250 you can get the greyscale absolutely spot on using it's own controls if you have the patience. I just prefer to use the VideoEQ for detailed adjustments as it's a bit easier, but it can still be done in the projector: It's only the colour gamut that can't be corrected, though many are quite happy with as is or even just turn the control down a few clicks (not technically 'correct' but if it works for them, so what?).

With a 2.4 screen you probably could do with closing the iris a bit anyway as you'll easily hit 12-14fL unless it's huge. Of course if you prefer something higher than this then fair enough, but it's nice to have a bit in hand as the lamp tends to dim quite a bit in those first 100 hours.

New HD250 owners should also read the cleaning thread in the >$3,000 section: The assembly directly in front of the lamp sometimes gets a hazy build up which is easily cleaned off and results in a large part of the brightness being regained after a few hundred hours use.

Zooming: Been there, done that, bought the lens...
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post #734 of 1856 Old 11-11-2010, 02:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryan.Pierce View Post

Getting back to the "enhanced HDMI " mode, could someone just put it in plain english if it is recommended or not? Recommend for modern Blu-ray content that is...

My understanding of the article is: if your source is Blu-ray or DVD, you must not use enhanced black to get a proper look. Enhanced black is only suitable for RGB sources, not YCbCr sources. All Blu-rays and DVD's are encoded as YCbCr, so for those, stick to Normal Black.
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post #735 of 1856 Old 11-11-2010, 02:51 PM
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HDMI level refer to VIDEO LEVEL (NORMAL) and ENHANCED LEVEL (PC)

but really it's just a matter a Brithness and Contrast. For example on my AE3000

NORMAL i have the brithness a -3, Contrast 0 (for bluray watching)
at Enhanced i have the brithness to -16, Contrast -2 (for Bluray watching)

Those setting are virtually the same... It's possible that the display or dvd don't show Blacker than Black, witch is NOT used in video anyway. I suggest downloading the excellent and FREE, avsforum tool AVSHD it go excelllent tools to adjust Brithness, Contrast, Color and tint..

89+ Blu-ray Disc ;)
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post #736 of 1856 Old 11-11-2010, 03:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ahard View Post

PJ, sorry to hear about the problems. I have a 40ft HDMI cable from Monoprice feeding through my surround receiver. I also noticed switching from a Yamaha surround rec to the Denon, the hand shake between the Denon and JVC takes longer.

When I first got the JVC I noticed that I would lose the signal or so I thought. But there is a Hide button at the top right on the remote that hides the image on the screen. Other than that, you may want to try another cable.

I had a handshake issue> With only 2 HDMI inputs on my Onkyo receiver I was running HDMI from my HD DVD player to the receiver and running my other HDMI products (ROKU, Directv and Sony Blu-Ray) thru a monprice switch and then to the receiver.
My issue was I was not able to use the Sony online services (Pandora, Neflix, Youtube, etc). By rearranging the cables (putting the Sony HDMI directly to the receiver and putting the Toshiba HD- DVD thru the switch) everything now works great. (I believe the cable is approx 50' and came from Monoprice)>
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post #737 of 1856 Old 11-11-2010, 03:10 PM
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I ended up calibrating in the Enhanced mode, this was mainly due to some respected contributers on here (Greg Rogers being one for example) that said it was better to use this mode. It seem to make it easier to set brightness as you can pass BTB. FWIW it's not strictly connected with being RGB or not, more if it's a video source (16-235) or PC (0-255).

However I'm not sure it really makes that much difference either way so long as the brightness and contrast are set accordingly. It's more important on the HDxxx models to change the setting to other than Auto as the projector sometimes changes of it's own accord.

+1 for the AVS HD709 disc. It's the only test disc I need these days, the basic section is great for setting up if you haven't got a sensor and software. There are all the patterns in the other sections you could wish for if you are equiped with a sensor.

Zooming: Been there, done that, bought the lens...
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post #738 of 1856 Old 11-11-2010, 09:00 PM
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After reading all the comments in this very useful thread, I bought a 250 from Jason. I received it last night and set it up on a make shift table and projected against the wall in my game room. Even with the medium brown color and the wall texture, the picture was great. My 14 yr old daughter walked by and said "Epic!"

This is my first projector and while waiting for the PJ to arrive I was going to do some prep work in setting up the ceiling mount, running cables etc since I figured out my throw distance from projectorcentral (as a RS-10) etc. But I decided to wait until I had the PJ and see what it can do. Boy, am I glad I waited. I was so sensitized to the brightness aspect and making sure I could get a great pic in my mostly darkened room etc so I didnt want to mount it too far away. But after turning it on at my planned (14ft) throw dist I quickly reached the limit of the lens zoom trying to get a bigger picture. So, I ended it up at a 16 ft throw and was watching a 130in WIDE picture that look awesome. I dont have a screen yet so still playing around with best size/color but I'm sure it will be in the 120+ in arena.
One thing that struck me was how 'bright' the top and bottom black bars were when watching 2.35:1 material. The were a bit distracting even when I zoom up the pic to move them 'out of the way'. Hopefully some black masking will make a difference and i might turn the aperture down a notch.

Today, I mounted to the ceiling with Chief RPAU mount and ran a 35ft Monoprice flat HMDI cable across the attic. The pic was great and was very watchable during the daytime with tons of ambient light.

So after 1 day I am very satisfied with PQ. I do think I am going to get tired of zooming and lens shift when I watch 2.35 stuff but there is always something to look forward too.

Still trying to figure out a screen. I got 8 samples from Da-Lite and I have them on the wall was I watch. For space movies, the gray material looks great, but for the rest they really give a subdued pic IMHO.

Thanks to the contributors on this thread for all the great info.
-Bob
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post #739 of 1856 Old 11-11-2010, 10:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pgjensen View Post

hmm how did you turn off hdcp on the jvc and whatever other devices you had?

Don't have JVC hooked up yet... but my Oppo and Samsung Plasma had those options... Maybe I have the name wrong??... the Samsung calls it Anynet+... don't have my oppo readily to check what is it called on it.
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post #740 of 1856 Old 11-11-2010, 10:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbess1107 View Post

...
Today, I mounted to the ceiling with Chief RPAU mount and ran a 35ft Monoprice flat HMDI cable across the attic. The pic was great and was very watchable during the daytime with tons of ambient light.

So after 1 day I am very satisfied with PQ. I do think I am going to get tired of zooming and lens shift when I watch 2.35 stuff but there is always something to look forward too.

Still trying to figure out a screen. I got 8 samples from Da-Lite and I have them on the wall was I watch. For space movies, the gray material looks great, but for the rest they really give a subdued pic IMHO.

Thanks to the contributors on this thread for all the great info.
-Bob

The Da-Lite High Power is a retro-reflective screen. So with your ceiling mount location, you might want to try something like the Silver Star 6.0.

Tryg has some nice articles on screen materials and comparisons. Here's one link: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hreadid=240074
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post #741 of 1856 Old 11-12-2010, 01:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbess1107 View Post

One thing that struck me was how 'bright' the top and bottom black bars were when watching 2.35:1 material. The were a bit distracting even when I zoom up the pic to move them 'out of the way'. Hopefully some black masking will make a difference and i might turn the aperture down a notch.

This could also be down to your room reflecting the light back to the 'screen' causing the bars to be lightened up. I see this on my side bars on my 2.35:1 screen even though the projector isn't actually projecting anything there. The cure was to make up a kind of 'tent' out of black cloth that I put up when watching a film...it makes a massive difference. The other cause could be that you have the brightness control set too high. Or that you are viewing in HDMI enhanced mode (or Auto as I said above as this can sometimes select 'Enhanced') with the brightness at 0 the blacks will look quite raised.

But don't expect perfection...I saw a HD750 in a total bat cave demo room and I could still clearly see the black bars, so the best solution is to mask them or buy a 2.35:1 screen if you mostly watch that AR like I seem to.

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post #742 of 1856 Old 11-12-2010, 07:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Kelvin1965S View Post

I ended up calibrating in the Enhanced mode, this was mainly due to some respected calibrators on here (UMR being one for example) that said it was better to use this mode.

.

I have never made that recommendation. I believe it is not a good idea to use enhanced mode in most cases.
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post #743 of 1856 Old 11-12-2010, 09:41 AM
 
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The Da-Lite High Power is a retro-reflective screen. So with your ceiling mount location, you might want to try something like the Silver Star 6.0.

With the Highpower, you get the most gain if you are the same level as the projector. If the projector is on the ceiling, then you have the least amount of gain. If you want the high gain, then the Silverstar would work well
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post #744 of 1856 Old 11-12-2010, 09:42 AM
 
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My 14 yr old daughter walked by and said "Epic!"

Being that i have 15 year old son, i find it hard to believe a teenager would say anything like that based on something a parent has done
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post #745 of 1856 Old 11-12-2010, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Kelvin1965S View Post

...But don't expect perfection...I saw a HD750 in a total bat cave demo room and I could still clearly see the black bars, so the best solution is to mask them or buy a 2.35:1 screen if you mostly watch that AR like I seem to.

That will depend on your installation limitations, but either will eliminate the black bars.
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post #746 of 1856 Old 11-12-2010, 11:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by umr View Post

I have never made that recommendation. I believe it is not a good idea to use enhanced mode in most cases.

My appologies I must have confussed you with another calibrator that did suggest using enhanced mode. I'll see if I can find out who it was and edit my post, I hope that's OK?

If you happen to see this reply, I'd be interested in why it makes any difference other than having to change the brightness and contrast to compensate.

EDIT: I can't find a calibrator, but it was 'recommended' by Greg Rogers in one thread I found, this is because it was said that 'Normal' HDMI clips white at 235 as well as black below 16.

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post #747 of 1856 Old 11-12-2010, 12:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Hutnicki View Post

Being that i have 15 year old son, i find it hard to believe a teenager would say anything like that based on something a parent has done

Oh sure, parent doing a face plant would probably do it.
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post #748 of 1856 Old 11-12-2010, 12:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelvin1965S View Post

My appologies I must have confussed you with another calibrator that did suggest using enhanced mode. I'll see if I can find out who it was and edit my post, I hope that's OK?

If you happen to see this reply, I'd be interested in why it makes any difference other than having to change the brightness and contrast to compensate.

EDIT: I can't find a calibrator, but it was 'recommended' by Greg Rogers in one thread I found, this is because it was said that 'Normal' HDMI clips white at 235 as well as black below 16.

The negative is that it lowers the light output and contrast ratio of your projector significantly for a slight change in a tiny percentage of images. Normal does clip above 235, but very few images contain data in that range while you are dimming and reducing contrast for all images by choosing Enhanced. Setting up machines is always a matter of tradeoffs and you must consider the negative with the positive aspects of all parameters. If you are willing to accept lower light output and contrast for seeing a little information above 235 then Enhanced is the correct choice.
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post #749 of 1856 Old 11-12-2010, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by umr View Post

If you are willing to accept lower light output and contrast for seeing a little information above 235 then Enhanced is the correct choice.

If the information in the links is correct (and I have no reason to doubt them), unless you're watching movies from some exotic source, you won't get any useful picture information outside the 16-235 range. It seems to me that if your movie source is DVD or Blu-ray, using enhanced mode doesn't buy you anything except the extra annoyance of having to compensate for the difference by making rather large adjustments to your brightness and contrast settings.
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post #750 of 1856 Old 11-13-2010, 04:38 PM
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The link posted does a good job on the recommendation. Here's the link again: http://www.audioholics.com/tweaks/ca...vels-xvycc-rgb
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