Epson 6100, 8100, 6500ub, 8500ub, 7500ub, 9500ub Post Pre-Mature Lamp Failure here - Page 3 - AVS Forum
View Poll Results: How Many Hours did you get on your first Bulb? Vote again for mutliple used bulbs.
300 or less Hours 0 0%
500 Hours 0 0%
700 Hours 1 50.00%
900 Hours 1 50.00%
1100 Hours 0 0%
1300 Hours 0 0%
1700 Hours 0 0%
2000 Hours 0 0%
2500 Hours 0 0%
3000 + Hours and Counting 0 0%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 2. You may not vote on this poll

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post #61 of 235 Old 10-06-2010, 02:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dysfunction26 View Post

they'll send me another if my current bulb goes out before 2,000 hours. It only took them about 4 days to get the bulb to me. I doubt I would get that kind of customer service from Panasonic.

Did they make you send the broken bulb back?


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post #62 of 235 Old 10-06-2010, 02:42 PM
 
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Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

Did they make you send the broken bulb back?

I was ready to ship it to them, I asked them if they wanted me to, and they said it was not necessary.
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post #63 of 235 Old 10-07-2010, 06:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mat82284 View Post

Yeah right now it looks really random and almost like the bulb could just pop at anytime. Over time as the sample size increases we should start to see a standard deviation show up.

Let us assume for a moment that the Epson number is accurate (I know, but bear with me)

The failure graph is going to look like a normal distribution with a peak at 4000 hours. If it is actually less, then the graph will shift left to reflect it. However, it is likely that the numbers being reported are early failures and most people can't report because their bulb either hasn't failed, or they don't have the required hours to check off the last choice.

That means that this poll is going to show failures over in the left side, with failures in the 2-4 times standard deviation portion. That is a very flat part of the graph and, as we are seeing, it would show a pretty uniform distribution of results.
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post #64 of 235 Old 10-07-2010, 08:51 AM
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It'd be luck to get enough voters to make this poll significant. In the other polls I've seen, as the thread has aged most people stopped voting. Maybe it wont happen in this POLL, just saying.


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post #65 of 235 Old 10-07-2010, 08:55 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

It'd be luck to get enough voters to make this poll significant. In the other polls I've seen, as the thread has aged most people stopped voting. Maybe it wont happen in this POLL, just saying.


Does it really matter? If it happens, it will be replaced free of charge. Epson has the best customer service of ANY company I have ever dealt with, in any category of products. They are one of the very few companies that will stand behind their product. I doubt I will ever buy a non-Epson projector again.
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post #66 of 235 Old 10-07-2010, 08:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dysfunction26 View Post

Does it really matter? If it happens, it will be replaced free of charge. Epson has the best customer service of ANY company I have ever dealt with, in any category of products. They are one of the very few companies that will stand behind their product. I doubt I will ever buy a non-Epson projector again.

It will only matter if people start abusing their good will and Epson stops sending the extra lamps. Not saying it will happen, just that it could.


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post #67 of 235 Old 10-07-2010, 10:10 AM
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Good analysis jayn_j.
The other X factor in this poll is people who have negative experience tend to "express" it more than people with positive experiences. i.e. people's whose bulb popped with low hours (I used to work in market research).

I think another interesting poll would be "what is the current hour count on your bulb" (ranges).

I'm still not convinced that the "bulb issue" is simply the fact that more people have them than other brands (since Epson sells so many) . Could be wrong, I will keep an open mind about it until I see more evidence.
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post #68 of 235 Old 10-07-2010, 12:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

I would guess / hope that if you are running the lamp in optimal cooling and electrical environment (which many do not), that you'd likely get towards the upper end of the range. I bet some of the blow-outs are from people running in a warm room, or their PJ is too close to the ceiling creating a heat island (who knows though for sure).

Heat rises and I guess it stay up there. I didnt think this far.

Epson in Aust is giving free blub with a new projector purchase.
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post #69 of 235 Old 10-07-2010, 12:56 PM
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My first 6500UB started displaying the color bars after about 80 hours and Epson sent a refurbished unit the next day. This unit has been perfect, however the lamp blew today after 623 hours.

I called Epson Tech Support, and they are sending me a new bulb free of charge. No fuss, no muss.

My unit is hanging from the ceiling with no obstructions in a large well cooled room. I really hope this not what I can expect from the bulb life as that would not be good, and expensive!

I have to say that Epson's tech support has been excellent.
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post #70 of 235 Old 10-07-2010, 01:41 PM
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If this was a truely random sampling on lamp life, then the following would apply in general terms:

Based on 35 respondents, that should be a 90% confidence factor at around an error level of 14%.
Essentially that means if you conducted the survey 10 times, then 9 out of 10 times it would be within 14% error margin in the numbers. This only applies to a truely random sampling.

Given this is a forum, we could easily double that error margin. Not to mention the fact it only calculates people with blown lamps and not working ones, unless they made it over a certain amount of hours, so actually it should have asked everyone's current usage, specifying dead lamp or still going. So given the way it was worded, it is statistically irrelevant because you have to know the number of running lamps since you don't know the distribution factors. There are multiple problems with the poll, so the deviation factors are off the charts, it's not even in a ballpark.

On an average, the poll is going to be very significantly biased towards showing only lamp failure hours early-on and not the actual hours anyone could reach, but you can't even calculate this factor because you don't know the number of running lamps or the distribution factor. There is a third variable, how many people ran the lamp and changed it because it was dim, etc... .

It's like trying to do this... If X + Y + Z = 5, what are X, Y, and Z. Although there is a range of what all those numbers can be, it's the same range for each number and doesn't mean anything statistically.


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post #71 of 235 Old 10-07-2010, 09:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

If this was a truely random sampling on lamp life, then the following would apply in general terms:

Based on 35 respondents, that should be a 90% confidence factor at around an error level of 14%.
Essentially that means if you conducted the survey 10 times, then 9 out of 10 times it would be within 14% error margin in the numbers. This only applies to a truely random sampling.

Given this is a forum, we could easily double that error margin. Not to mention the fact it only calculates people with blown lamps and not working ones, unless they made it over a certain amount of hours, so actually it should have asked everyone's current usage, specifying dead lamp or still going. So given the way it was worded, it is statistically irrelevant because you have to know the number of running lamps since you don't know the distribution factors. There are multiple problems with the poll, so the deviation factors are off the charts, it's not even in a ballpark.

On an average, the poll is going to be very significantly biased towards showing only lamp failure hours early-on and not the actual hours anyone could reach, but you can't even calculate this factor because you don't know the number of running lamps or the distribution factor. There is a third variable, how many people ran the lamp and changed it because it was dim, etc... .

It's like trying to do this... If X + Y + Z = 5, what are X, Y, and Z. Although there is a range of what all those numbers can be, it's the same range for each number and doesn't mean anything statistically.

Like I've mentioned before. This poll doesn't work right now. Given time it will work. We only care about when the bulb fails not if its running right now. If someone votes for 300hours then again at 500 because its still running that would mess up the data. That would look like 2 projectors instead of one continuous one. The only true way to find an average is to find out the average life span of the bulb. Which is only after they pop. I figured this poll would take at least a year for any significant data to start showing up.
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post #72 of 235 Old 10-09-2010, 04:52 PM
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1800 hours and my first bulb popped. Used mostly on Living Room (normal) mode.
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post #73 of 235 Old 10-09-2010, 08:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grishi View Post

1800 hours and my first bulb popped. Used mostly on Living Room (normal) mode.

Thats pretty good actually. You did almost 2k on normal. I would guess you could have gotten 3k on eco. To bad its hard to reach 4k like they advertise. Call epson and tell them your bulb popped at 1800hours and you dont know why. Maybe you can get a new free bulb from them. If you do let us know.
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post #74 of 235 Old 10-14-2010, 08:43 AM
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The lamp on my 8500UB blew out last week almost exactly at the 500 hour mark (10 months old). My experience was very similar to what others have reported. First, the projector became very dim after turning it on one evening, although it was still useable. The next day, the projector refused to startup w/ the lamp light flashing red. I didn't hear a pop or anything, but the bulb is definitely destroyed - slanted at an angle inside like the caulking melted with little bits of loose glass in the bottom.

Epson service was terrific. I called them on Friday and received a free replacement lamp on Wednesday. Shame it didn't blow earlier in the week (curse you Columbus Day weekend!) since the business days turnaround was so fast.

The blown lamp was Chinese and the replacement is Japanese. Not sure if that is a factor.

***

1) What is the temperature of the room on average? How often do you clean your filter?

About 75°F. I clean the filter every couple of months w/ a small handvac (without removing it for fear of dust blobs), although it's never really been all that dirty. Projector is covered when not in use.

2) what size room do you have, is the room big or small, is it near a window or AC unit?

Small room: 16 x 11 foot, 92" 16:9 screen. Projector is shelf mounted at the back of the room with open space to all sides (about 2.5 feet from back wall). It's close to an AC vent, although not directly underneath.

3) Did you make custom fans to point at the projector to help flow?

No, although I do use a ceiling fan when using the projector and circulation around the unit seems to be good.

4) Do you use high alt mode?

No.

5) what settings do you use? like pre-made modes, or your own custom calibrations?

Slightly tweaked THX mode, normal power.
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post #75 of 235 Old 10-14-2010, 09:29 AM
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So do not open the dust filter? Just vacuum the outside? The inside of the projector is dust free? I am afraid of dust blobs.
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post #76 of 235 Old 10-14-2010, 10:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mat82284 View Post

Like I've mentioned before. This poll doesn't work right now. Given time it will work. We only care about when the bulb fails not if its running right now.

Not trying to be a know-it-all, but I want people to know that they shouldn't base their buying decisions on this poll. Even if we got a million votes, the poll still won't work. You have to know the number of still running bulbs because so many people are low-usage users, so it skews the results. The problem with statistics is it's sort of complicated to arrive at a result that even marginally is within a decent error margin. I only know this because I am a programmer and have had to deal with the crappy issue of statistics several times before, it's very hard to do it right. I don't mean to hammer the issue and I'm not trying to make you look wrong, I just don't want to see everyone judging it by this poll.

For instance, if you have 10 people at 1,400 hours that didn't have a bulb pop, they will not vote, yet maybe as many as 50% of the users in this forum use their projector less than 1500 hours a year. Some people buy a new PJ before even replacing the lamp. If you take the number of hours that only people with failed lamps had, the BIAS of average lamp life will always be towards a lower number of hours regardless of how long you run the poll. The only thing this poll can sort of give us, is for people that had failed lamps what the average life was, but that doesn't give us even close to an overall average running figure.

There are other skewing factors and bias in this poll.

My previous judgement on the lamp was only based on conditional and marginal probabilities (if one person had a lamp fail many times in a row), that is a much heavier weighting statistic than a generic poll, but even I admit that is not a definitive factor due to environmental running condtions and bias. For all we know the lamps could last 3000 hours if you run it in optimal conditions.

Let's make an educated guess (and that's all this is), if you add some guessing on what the skewing bias might be, we could say the average lamp life is more likely between 1000-2000 hours, and probably 1500 hours, but that's a very skewed guess, and trying to wait for more results to make the guess more accurate just isn't going to work. It could be 2000 hours easily, even 3000+, maybe higher.

So my suggestion is to create a new poll that asks several different questions, that way you can make it more informative and more accurate. You need to ask several questions in different ways.


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post #77 of 235 Old 10-14-2010, 11:39 AM
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OK, Coderguy. You create a new poll.
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post #78 of 235 Old 10-14-2010, 11:43 AM
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That's ok, he can do it if he wants to, he just needs to ask more questions. I just don't want people not buying this projector because of the poll.

Actually, I will say right now that I no longer believe lamp life it to be an issue even for us ridiculously heavy users, so it should NOT be an issue even for us heavy users given the superiority of Epson's customer service which means only marginal differences in lamp life even if the lamp constantly busts (it might actually mean the EPSON lamps are cheaper in the long run if they blow!).


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post #79 of 235 Old 10-17-2010, 03:11 PM
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Well my experience isnt the best one in favor of the 8500UB. My first bulb went out at something like 780 hrs. They sent me a new bulb and it didnt even last 700. I called and they sent me a new projector. Everything was fine until a few nights ago. Now the image is so Dim I have to watch it in Dynamic mode even in a completely dark room. This bulb is at 757 hrs. That is three bulbs and three failures under 800 hrs.

One of the major reasons I elected to purchase the epson over other models was the supposed 4000hr bulb. If it got 3000 I would be happy but this is kind of rediculous.
Epson tech support has been good up till this point--I still need to call about the latest trouble-- but this is a hassle nonetheless. I just hope the bulb lasts through the Colts game tonight. =/
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post #80 of 235 Old 10-17-2010, 05:54 PM
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Epson 7500 owner here -

Can someone tell me how many hours I should expect out of my unit?

2 days ago, I noticed my image start to get significantly dimmer.

I've clocked 2200 hours on it over the last year+. Is this likely a lamp issue? Should I look at installing my spare at this point?

What are other people getting on their 7500s etc. I thought they were rated for 4000. Thx.
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post #81 of 235 Old 10-17-2010, 06:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatone666 View Post

Well my experience isnt the best one in favor of the 8500UB. My first bulb went out at something like 780 hrs. They sent me a new bulb and it didnt even last 700. I called and they sent me a new projector. Everything was fine until a few nights ago. Now the image is so Dim I have to watch it in Dynamic mode even in a completely dark room. This bulb is at 757 hrs. That is three bulbs and three failures under 800 hrs.

One of the major reasons I elected to purchase the epson over other models was the supposed 4000hr bulb. If it got 3000 I would be happy but this is kind of rediculous.
Epson tech support has been good up till this point--I still need to call about the latest trouble-- but this is a hassle nonetheless. I just hope the bulb lasts through the Colts game tonight. =/

Can you tell me where your lamps were made China or Japan?

Also if anyone else has gotten a new replacement lamp recently can you post pictures of it and let us know if its China made or japanese.

Lastly anyone with a new 8700ub or 8350 would you be so kind to remove your lamp and take photos as well as look for information on where it's built.

I'm just trying to see if Epson is doing anything about the lamp issues, other than replacing bulbs when they pop.
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post #82 of 235 Old 10-17-2010, 07:12 PM
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Anyone recommend a good place to buy a bulb warranty? If they are this unreliable I'm thinking I'll have Epson replace and cash in on a warranty.
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post #83 of 235 Old 10-17-2010, 10:10 PM
 
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Originally Posted by subliminac View Post

Anyone recommend a good place to buy a bulb warranty? If they are this unreliable I'm thinking I'll have Epson replace and cash in on a warranty.

Mack warranty from Limited Goods, it covers 2 bulbs over 3 years. It is about $80, the last time I checked. All you have to do is send them the broken bulb when you receive the new one from them. You have to purchase the warranty within 30 days of the date you got the projector though.
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post #84 of 235 Old 10-18-2010, 01:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mat82284 View Post

Can you tell me where your lamps were made China or Japan?

Also if anyone else has gotten a new replacement lamp recently can you post pictures of it and let us know if its China made or japanese.

Lastly anyone with a new 8700ub or 8350 would you be so kind to remove your lamp and take photos as well as look for information on where it's built.

I'm just trying to see if Epson is doing anything about the lamp issues, other than replacing bulbs when they pop.



Not sure about the first two. This one was made in China. Epson is sending me a new bulb via Fed-Ex. I will try to remember to check before I put it in and post.
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post #85 of 235 Old 10-18-2010, 02:05 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatone666 View Post

Not sure about the first two. This one was made in China. Epson is sending me a new bulb via Fed-Ex. I will try to remember to check before I put it in and post.

The replacement I got was a Chinese bulb as well.
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post #86 of 235 Old 10-18-2010, 02:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mat82284 View Post

...
Lastly anyone with a new 8700ub or 8350 would you be so kind to remove your lamp and take photos as well as look for information on where it's built.
...

This would be great. As someone looking to buy a 8700ub, I would feel much better if it shipped with a Japanese bulb.

I have too many hobbies.
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post #87 of 235 Old 10-18-2010, 03:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatone666 View Post

Well my experience isnt the best one in favor of the 8500UB. My first bulb went out at something like 780 hrs. They sent me a new bulb and it didnt even last 700. I called and they sent me a new projector. Everything was fine until a few nights ago. Now the image is so Dim I have to watch it in Dynamic mode even in a completely dark room. This bulb is at 757 hrs. That is three bulbs and three failures under 800 hrs.

Was this running in high lamp or economy mode?
Do you have a UPS, what temp is the room that you are running the projector in?

These are the types of posts that potentially weigh with conditional / joint / and marginal probabilities, the likelihood of having a single person have (3) bulb failures in a row near the same hours at a low rate of usage, each time it happens it weighs against the bulb life. Still as long as they are replacing them, not a huge concern for now.


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post #88 of 235 Old 10-18-2010, 03:31 PM
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Wow, I haven't been on the forum in months and was surprised to find this thread - I didn't know this was a problem. The bulb in my 6100 is almost 2 years old with 3800 hours on it (it's our TV, too, and is generally on for hours every day, even if we're not actively watching it). Still works well, though I think I've noticed some brightness shifting or flickering, maybe up and down about 10% - can't really notice it unless there's a large block of solid colour in the image somewhere. Still, I don't know if it's the bulb about to croak, or some other issue.

Anyway, here are my answers to the poll questions:

1) What is the temperature of the room on average? How often do you clean your filter?
My room temp varies with the season, probably 23 to 28 degrees C in the summer, maybe 18 to 20 in the winter. I have NEVER cleaned my filter, until today - there didn't appear to much dust in it at all. (And my house is VERY dusty generally speaking - all hardwood, no carpets to trap the dust.)

2) what size room do you have, is the room big or small, is it near a window or AC unit?
Room is about 13 by 20 feet, standard height. Projector is on top of a bookcase at the back, near a wall, no AC or window nearby.

3) Did you make custom fans to point at the projector to help flow?
No.

4) Do you use high alt mode?
No.

5) what settings do you use? like pre-made modes, or your own custom calibrations?
Has always been in Living Room mode.


Cheers,
DrJazz

Denon 3808ci / Rotel RMB-1095 / Oppo BDP-93
Klipsch RF-7 II, RC-64 II, RS-62 II (5.1) / Paradigm Sub 15
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post #89 of 235 Old 10-18-2010, 03:47 PM
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It is good to hear from people like DrJazz, at least we know its possible to get a lot of hours. For people having problems, they should ensure the projector has good airflow on it, and that their voltage is clean with a UPS + Power Conditioner.

It is possible that this projector is just extra sensitive to smaller fluctuations in the running conditions, maybe something to do with the way they tweaked the maximum lumens out of the lamps. Could also be a defect with the fans in certain units, maybe some peoples' fans are not running at the correct RPM. I wonder if the service menu has a FAN RPM indicator (kind of doubt it, but who knows).


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post #90 of 235 Old 10-18-2010, 06:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

Was this running in high lamp or economy mode?
Do you have a UPS, what temp is the room that you are running the projector in?

These are the types of posts that potentially weigh with conditional / joint / and marginal probabilities, the likelihood of having a single person have (3) bulb failures in a row near the same hours at a low rate of usage, each time it happens it weighs against the bulb life. Still as long as they are replacing them, not a huge concern for now.

I was using the projector at a standard mode. It was not being used at eco mode or high altitude. The room might be 76 to 80 degress on average with the amount of electronic devices present. I did not replace or clean the filter regularly but each time the bulb has failed I have checked the filter and seen no significant accumulation of particulate matter. My use of the prejector, however, has been somewhat high. Frequently the projector has been on for 6 to 7 hours straight. My 2 previous projectors did not suffer negatively from this and actually outlasted their expected bulb life.

I am very happy with the performance of the projector. It most certainly is one of the best on the market in terms of the quality of the display. The lamp life is a serious issue that needs to be fixed however. I recently recommended this projector to a friend of mine who is the head director of a community library. She purchased an 8500ub for the library on my recommendation and now I am concerned that the bulb life will be a major factor for her. In retrospect I may have recommended a different product. Clearly Epson needs to find a permanent solution for this problem. This is unacceptable. I am just thankful that their technical support department is there for me 100% when their products fail to meet expectations.
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Reply Digital Projectors - Under $3,000 USD MSRP

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