Mitsubishi HC4000 - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 1524 Old 09-30-2010, 01:35 PM
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John,

Good luck with your new PJ.

Just remember. Don't ever come back to this forum again until 2013 or later.

Cheers.
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post #32 of 1524 Old 09-30-2010, 08:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dragonbud0 View Post

John,

Good luck with your new PJ.

Just remember. Don't ever come back to this forum again until 2013 or later.

Cheers.


yes if you don't want to lighten you wallet or turn your smile upside down, stay far away from here


and thanks dragon for the thorough reply
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post #33 of 1524 Old 10-01-2010, 05:22 AM
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Originally Posted by ctmooregottapee View Post

yes if you don't want to lighten you wallet or turn your smile upside down, stay far away from here


and thanks dragon for the thorough reply

I'm sure I will be hanging around for a while. I am still curious about the HC4000. I was told that it will not be available until later in the month and will be selling at retail. I thought that there would be some discount.
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post #34 of 1524 Old 10-01-2010, 01:17 PM
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I'm having a bit of trouble comparing the HC4000 and the HC7000.

The price of the HC4000 will be around 1500, but I have the opportunity to buy a almost new HC7000 at 1200.
I have no clue which pj is the best because I find it difficult to compare reviews when there are 2 years in between.

I hope I am not making a fool of myself by asking this question.

Which would you choose and why?
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post #35 of 1524 Old 10-01-2010, 01:49 PM
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You did not mention your situation. There is a difference in brightness, I think the HC7000 is more of a dedicated HT room projector with 1000 ansi. Also the HC7000 is a LCD with more flexible positioning while the HC4000 is DLP that must be installed carefully. You might also be sensible to rainbows in which case the Mitsu is not for you. Tell us more about what you want to view and where so we know how to help you.
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post #36 of 1524 Old 10-01-2010, 02:04 PM
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The future projector room is light controlled, pitch black is no problem.
I have never seen rainbows on the pj's I have come across. But that isn't an issue with the HC7000, I thought?
The placement issue shouldn't be a problem with both of them.
My projector use will consist of movies, series and occasionally games.

I hope you have a better view of my situation now
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post #37 of 1524 Old 10-01-2010, 04:23 PM
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You need to take a look at a DLP pj vs. LCD pj video quality for yourself; all else being equal, a cheap skate like me would go for the 7000, assuming that it is covered under warranty. Otherwise, I would go for the 4000. The LCD is quieter for sure, and should not have any light spill.

Warranty is important for the Mitsu series to justify the possibly $300 delta, IMHO.
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post #38 of 1524 Old 10-01-2010, 05:06 PM
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PP and VA are both selling the 4000 now. VA says pre-order, PP doesn't say anything about pre-order, looks like they might have them in stock. SHIPS IN 1-2 DAYS.
I was hoping they would be going for a little less.
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post #39 of 1524 Old 10-01-2010, 06:25 PM
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no need to discount them when buyers are willing and supply is limited



as far as the 7000, DLP and LCD really are far apart as far as comparing something similar, unless of course you don't really care or notice the details like most the public
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post #40 of 1524 Old 10-03-2010, 02:33 PM
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guys,

how does this projector compare with epson 8350, is the USD 200 difference justified?

i cant wait to see some reviews.
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post #41 of 1524 Old 10-04-2010, 01:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asay82 View Post

guys,

how does this projector compare with epson 8350, is the USD 200 difference justified?

I suspect that the HC4000 compared to the 8350 will be about the same comparison as the HC3800 to the 8100 ...
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post #42 of 1524 Old 10-05-2010, 07:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ctmooregottapee View Post

no need to discount them when buyers are willing and supply is limited

I still think this projector might still be a good upgrade for me, but I expected them to hit the market with a street price closer to that of the 3800 and not at full list. I cannot fault the suppliers for wanting to take advantage of any early interest. After all this can be a low margin portion of the business. But given the initial price I will try to be patient and hopefully the street price drops a bit.

Any word on specials for this projector? Extra lamp? Discounts? Perhaps November will end up being the time to buy for me.
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post #43 of 1524 Old 10-05-2010, 07:59 AM
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So far there aren't any free lamp rebates or anything yet. The 3800 rebates came about 3 months after it's launch so maybe they will come in a few months.

"What do you mean it's too loud? My ears aren't even bleeding yet!"

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post #44 of 1524 Old 10-05-2010, 08:55 AM
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Hope the extra 200 HC's on this thing make it handle a little better than the 3800.
Love the picture, hate the flaws.

"I still love technology. Always and Forever"
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post #45 of 1524 Old 10-05-2010, 09:59 AM
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All PJs have flaws. Adds character.

Cheers.
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post #46 of 1524 Old 10-05-2010, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by dragonbud0 View Post

All PJs have flaws. Adds character.

Cheers.

It's true!


Thanks Dragonbud. We all want perfect products don't we? Too bad perfect is very subjective.
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post #47 of 1524 Old 10-05-2010, 10:23 AM
 
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I dont know if its been mentioned, but we sell the HC400 here. Give us a call if you are interested
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post #48 of 1524 Old 10-06-2010, 02:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Legairre View Post

So far there aren't any free lamp rebates or anything yet. The 3800 rebates came about 3 months after it's launch so maybe they will come in a few months.

I guess we will have to see how well that pricing strategy works for them. The DC3 chip on this projector is a nice upgrade. However there is very little else about this projector that is significantly different than the 3800. The majority of the design is a year old, and it is selling for a few hundred more than the 3800, without a spare lamp, and against a lot of really strong competition. On top of that the introduction for the original 3800 was not exactly flawless, and left a few concerns around.

I guess considering everything I would have expected Mits. to continue the lamp deal, or some vendors to be offering a discount off of the list price. This projector may be worth what they are asking if the issues in the early models are really addressed. But the economy is still tight and people are being more cautious with their money. I just cannot see a lot of people willing to pay full list for this. I for one will be waiting to see if the street prices or other incentives I was expecting come around in a month or two.
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post #49 of 1524 Old 10-06-2010, 10:31 PM
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Originally Posted by tsaksa View Post

This projector may be worth what they are asking if the issues in the early models are really addressed. .

Well, the issues with the HC3800 were addressed. The later HC3800's didn't appear to have anymore issues beyond normal (normal for average projectors that is).
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post #50 of 1524 Old 10-06-2010, 11:35 PM
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I guess we will have to see how well that pricing strategy works for them. .

You guys do realize that the free lamp + $200 discount were meant to offset the bad PR of the HC3800. Those days are gone.
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post #51 of 1524 Old 10-06-2010, 11:42 PM
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Originally Posted by HDTVChallenged View Post

You guys do realize that the free lamp + $200 discount were meant to offset the bad PR of the HC3800. Those days are gone.

The discount(s) was from market forces (dealer competition), not a manufacture rebate. $200 off a list price of $1500 ain't much of a discount either. I believe I got about $350 off list + the free lamp.

The lamp rebate was in force before issues (posts) started popping up on AVS threads.

I don't see why a similar discount and lamp rebate couldn't happen for the HC4000, it's not really all that different from the HC4000 perf. wise.
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post #52 of 1524 Old 10-06-2010, 11:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fleaman View Post

The lamp rebate was in force before issues (posts) started popping up on AVS threads..

That's not what I recall. Rebates started last Oct?

In any case, I got the distinct impression that the continual extensions of the offers (up to 9/30/2010) were meant to offset the negative vibes ... and I confess that it almost worked on me. Now I'm re-evaluating the entire upgrade project.
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post #53 of 1524 Old 10-06-2010, 11:54 PM
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If Mits is smart they'll wait a bit and see how the competition fares before offering any rebates/price drops/free lamps. If the 8350 is truly all it is claimed to be, once consumers have them in hand, then Mits will probably follow with some type of incentive. Considering the HC4000 is a drop in replacement for a HC3800 I am considering selling my pristine HC3800 for the DC3 (having had DC3 I can tell you it is a worthwhile upgrade if the investment is reasonable).

Jason
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post #54 of 1524 Old 10-09-2010, 10:25 AM
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Anyone done any gaming on it? Still searching for the Projector for me.. It's between the HC4000/8350/8700 so far..
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post #55 of 1524 Old 10-09-2010, 10:44 AM
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I can't find much NON-BIASED info as far any comparison between the 3 projectors, other than ART's reviews somewhat, but I have compared the 8500ub to the hc3800.

The problem is the hc4000 now has DC3 and the Epson 8350 now has d7 fine (or whatever its called). So they've changed out enough in both these PJ's that we don't know for sure. Art also claims the Epson 8350 was sharper than the 8100 even when his 8350 had worse convergence? (wow now that could indicate a huge up in Epson sharpness, but I have my doubts).

Art seemed to say the 8350 still could not quite match the ANSI contrast of the 8500. According to ART, in bright scenes the 8500 still had somewhat better blacks then the 8350, and in dark scenes the 8500 left the 8350 in the dust (dynamic contrast). Judging from what ART has said, the dynamic and ANSI contrast of the 8350 is still only a tad higher than the 8100 and not near the 8500 (At least not in dynamic contrast).

Problem with this is, the 8350 is a much brighter projector than the 8500 and he was using a new LAMP, so hopefully ART took the time to calibrate them to the same brightness when doing his eyeball contrast comparisons (he usually does, but sometimes he forgets or is lazy - if any of us had to compare so many PJ's, I'm sure we'd do the same thing).

This is all very confusing, so we have to wait and see for more reviews and info.

I have compared the hc3800 to the Epson 8500.

For gaming, sharpness is fairly important (depends on what type of gaming I suppose), so the hc4000 might get my vote, but then again some are claiming the Epsons are even sharper this year (has yet to been proven though). For some gaming, black levels are important as well so that gives the Epson a +1.

It's a tough call, but I'd say if gaming is the main thing and you are willing to return your PJ several times if the convergence is off, I'd probably at least give the Epsons a try.

If you want something cheaper, you might just grab the hc4000 and the Epson 8350 at the same time from a place you know will allow a return, and then compare them yourself and ship the one back that you don't want.

If you look in the Epson threads, they will basically kill you if you try to compare anything and claim that you are trashing Epson.


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post #56 of 1524 Old 10-09-2010, 10:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

I can't find much NON-BIASED info as far any comparison between the 3 projectors, other than ART's reviews somewhat, but I have compared the 8500ub to the hc3800.

The problem is the hc4000 now has DC3 and the Epson 8350 now has d7 fine (or whatever its called). So they've changed out enough in both these PJ's that we don't know for sure. Art also claims the Epson 8350 was sharper than the 8100 even when his 8350 had worse convergence? (wow now that could indicate a huge up in Epson sharpness, but I have my doubts).

Art seemed to say the 8350 still could not quite match the ANSI contrast of the 8500. According to ART, in bright scenes the 8500 still had somewhat better blacks then the 8350, and in dark scenes the 8500 left the 8350 in the dust (dynamic contrast). Judging from what ART has said, the dynamic and ANSI contrast of the 8350 is still only a tad higher than the 8100 and not near the 8500 (At least not in dynamic contrast).

Problem with this is, the 8350 is a much brighter projector than the 8500 and he was using a new LAMP, so hopefully ART took the time to calibrate them to the same brightness(he usually does, but sometimes he forgets or is lazy - if any of us had to compare so many PJ's, I'm sure we'd do the same thing).

This is all very confusing, so we have to wait and see for more reviews and info.

I have compared the hc3800 to the Epson 8500.

For gaming, sharpness is fairly important (depends on what type of gaming I suppose), so the hc4000 might get my vote, but then again some are claiming the Epsons are even sharper this year (has yet to been proven though). For some gaming, black levels are important as well so that gives the Epson a +1.

It's a tough call, but I'd say if gaming is the main thing and you are willing to return your PJ several times if the convergence is off, I'd probably at least give the Epsons a try.

If you want something cheaper, you might just grab the hc4000 and the Epson 8350 at the same time from a place you know will allow a return, and then compare them yourself and ship the one back that you don't want.

If you look in the Epson threads, they will basically kill you if you try to compare anything and claim that you are trashing Epson.

Thanks for the info.
I'm just worried about input lag amid all the things you've touched on as well.
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post #57 of 1524 Old 10-09-2010, 11:07 AM
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Thanks for the info.
I'm just worried about input lag amid all the things you've touched on as well.

Not sure on this, but judging from motion, I think the Mits will have barely faster response and less blur (might want to check some older threads on this).

To my eyes anyways, the hc3800 did better on fast motion than the Epson 8500 or any LCD for that matter that I saw at stores as well, but VERY NEGLIGIBLE. You have to get out your EAGLE EYE to see most differences in PJ's these days.

I played a little FPS on my Sanyo Z5 and it has WAY WAY slower motion than any of these newer projectors (LCD or DLP), and it didnt even bother me much (a few times when I was running and shooting there was a bit of blur and lag that was somewhat noticeable).

I doubt lag would be a major issue on either PJ, but who knows, seems like LAG is like RBE, some people notice it more than others.


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post #58 of 1524 Old 10-09-2010, 03:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

Not sure on this, but judging from motion, I think the Mits will have barely faster response and less blur (might want to check some older threads on this).

To my eyes anyways, the hc3800 did better on fast motion than the Epson 8500 or any LCD for that matter that I saw at stores as well, but VERY NEGLIGIBLE. You have to get out your EAGLE EYE to see most differences in PJ's these days.

I played a little FPS on my Sanyo Z5 and it has WAY WAY slower motion than any of these newer projectors (LCD or DLP), and it didnt even bother me much (a few times when I was running and shooting there was a bit of blur and lag that was somewhat noticeable).

I doubt lag would be a major issue on either PJ, but who knows, seems like LAG is like RBE, some people notice it more than others.

It's not motion blur I'm worried about, it's input lag *The time it takes for things you do on your controller to be shown on your television, or in this instance, projector*
I've been toying with the idea of getting the 8350/4000 together and doing comparisons and posting numbers for everyone and just returning whichever one is unplayable.
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post #59 of 1524 Old 10-09-2010, 11:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G342 View Post

It's not motion blur I'm worried about, it's input lag *The time it takes for things you do on your controller to be shown on your television, or in this instance, projector*
I've been toying with the idea of getting the 8350/4000 together and doing comparisons and posting numbers for everyone and just returning whichever one is unplayable.

Actually I was speaking of both, input lag and motion blur. They both affect gaming. Also in general terms and these days the 2 can be related. The speed of the processing chip can cause blur and input lag at the same time.


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post #60 of 1524 Old 10-10-2010, 10:15 AM
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Motion blur is practically negligible on DLP projectors, its one of its elementary or intrinsic characteristics, along with sealed light path, etc....

LCD are more prone to this, but its also depending on your sensitivity......but in terms of lag...both the hc4000 and the Epson 8350 should present no problem. They both have rather basic video processors that don't do much to the video signal to create noticeable lag.

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