Mitsubishi HC4000 - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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Old 10-30-2010, 08:02 AM
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Originally Posted by eliwankenobi View Post

... by then I hope there is more availability for the Mits, we start seeing lower prices, more reviews and more user feedback... I have no problem waiting until maybe December and making this my Christmas present...I have waited so long now and my home made 720p projector hasn't let me down yet.

Eli

Agreed. I also would prefer to buy locally, unless there is a lot more feedback on this unit. I think that given the pedigree of this model, and what appears to me like a staggered release, waiting makes a lot of sense. I find it a bit humorous when I see comments from people saying, "Please provide feedback, I need to order something by tomorrow!" In a way I sort of understand the emotion, but at the same time, a projector purchase is not something you really want to rush.

P.S. I also started with a homemade projector. I built it mostly for a learning experience. Almost forgot about that because it was almost six years and three projectors ago.
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Old 10-30-2010, 03:18 PM
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Other than the defect with the left side of the screen being dim (and the first one had the bulb blow out after about 1 hour of use), the image quality was fantastic. Sharpness and color seemed great out of the box too. In low mode it was definitely brighter than the HD1000 it will be replacing, if I can get a good one! As far as audible noise is concerned; it sounds exactly like my HD1000U. They're not silent, but I can't hear it over dialog, and it never stands out or catches my ear. Just a note, my HD1000 remote operates the HC4000 too.

I would be afraid I'm getting refurbs from this dealer, but being that they JUST came out (I ordered on 10/10/2010), I don't think Mitsubishi even has returned units to "refurb" yet, they have to be new. The boxes looked sealed and unopened.

I'm not a mits projector tech, but I think it's the bulb that was defective in the 2 I got so far, being that one of them blew out after an hour. I didn't even use the 2nd one more than 2 minutes before I sent it back though, so I don't know how that bulb would have faired.
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Old 11-01-2010, 06:39 AM
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subscribed! I wonder if the optics are as good as my HC3100...and I guess TI were plain lying when they said that we'd get affordable DC4 1080p's through fall 2008
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Old 11-01-2010, 07:36 AM
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Manufacturers do not lie; they tend to overhang the market to prevent the consumers buying the competitors' products. Microsoft has been using this tactic, as well as others for the longest time.

LCD manufacturers do the same.
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Old 11-01-2010, 08:09 AM
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Originally Posted by leeperry View Post

subscribed! I wonder if the optics are as good as my HC3100...and I guess TI were plain lying when they said that we'd get affordable DC4 1080p's through fall 2008

Everything we have heard so far suggests the 4000 will have the same optics as the 3100, which also from all accounts are excellent. As for "affordable DC4 1080p's", I guess it all depends on your definition of affordable, and what you are comparing with.

I do admit I am also a bit disappointed right now with the cost of this (DC3) projector, even though I do not know if that is fair. Even if it were, we have no idea if TI's chip pricing strategy is really to blame. There are a lot of things that affect cost from the raw chips, supply and demand, customer perceptions, etc. Part of my disappointment is probably a result of my expectations for early street prices. But, street prices are set by distributors in response to supply and demand.

Mits may have been very cautious on the economy and perhaps are now not able to keep up with initial demand. In that case, I cannot really fault suppliers for not offering discounts at this time even though it is difficult to see discounts and streams of glowing reports for the 8350. I really wanted something the size of a DLP unit. But with less feedback on this unit which is still selling for nearly full list, each new post on 8350 forum pushes me a bit closer to making a switch.
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Old 11-01-2010, 09:06 AM
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well, the 3100 optics suffers from some slight red CA...Apparently the BenQ W5/20K provide a higher OTF/MTF sharpness. I've seen close ups of the W5K, OMG! But BenQ don't seem able to make proper firmwares, and they even ask you to pay for updates around here :/

OTOH BenQ have taken the light leaks problems at hand, not quite the case on the 1080p Mits from what I can see. Also the reason why Yam' was rebadging their HC950 w/ a bigger case.

I haven't seen any native CR/ANSI CR measurements for the HC4k yet? coz these are the strong assets of the HC3100 IMO. Bright scenes are unbelievable on the 3100, the black bars are transparent and the picture so punchy

Yeah, I guess the yield rates must be low on the DC4...IIRC, they did promise affordable DC4's by the end of 2008...sounds like they were too optimistic or just wanna cash in on DC1's like in the W5K. Who know what's in the HC3800/3900
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Old 11-01-2010, 11:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsaksa View Post

Everything we have heard so far suggests the 4000 will have the same optics as the 3100, which also from all accounts are excellent.

I think you meant to say; ' the 4000 will have the same optics as the 3800'.

Which would be true.

I think the HC3800 has better optics than the HC3000, or at least Mits has given that impression with their literature.

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Originally Posted by tsaksa View Post

I do admit I am also a bit disappointed right now with the cost of this (DC3) projector, even though I do not know if that is fair.

Won't the HC4000 be the cheapest DC3 PJ out there?
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Old 11-01-2010, 12:58 PM
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HC3800 does have better optics/design than the HC3000/3100, less CA with the HC3800.

And yes AFAIK the HC4000 is the least expensive 'NEW' DC3 DLP on the market and at under $1500 nobody should be complaining since it has just set a price/performance mark for a new DC3 1080p DLP.

Jason
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Old 11-01-2010, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by DaGamePimp View Post

HC3800 does have better optics/design than the HC3000/3100, less CA with the HC3800.

And yes AFAIK the HC4000 is the least expensive 'NEW' DC3 DLP on the market and at under $1500 nobody should be complaining since it has just set a price/performance mark for a new DC3 1080p DLP.

Jason

Excellent points. Sorry if it sounded like I was complaining. Like I said, my impression was based on some early projections of street prices that have not yet materialized. And those early predictions may have been unrealistic in the first place. But, the fact remains that this unit being the lowest priced new DC3 is only one basis for comparison. Another is how well it compares to other recent entry level projectors such as the 8350 which is priced lower, more widely available, more heavily discounted, and has some other worthwhile advantages. The HC-4000 on its surface seems more refined, and may end up being well worth the extra money for a lot of people. But competition is brisk, and the jury is out.

Two years ago, if a projector from a major vendor came out with a new higher contrast chip at the same price, or a very similar price to a previous model, people would be falling all over it. Today many people are being a lot more cautious with their money. They want to feel more confident before they buy. Perhaps when more people start getting this projector home and raving about how great the picture is, how it was such an improvement from whatever they had, and how they wish they took the plunge earlier, there will be a lot more folks willing to get into the water so to speak. Right now I think this projector's major weakness is in stories.
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Old 11-01-2010, 03:18 PM
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the HC1100(DC2)/HC3100(DC3) difference was really not a night and day..only purists and ppl who compared them perfectly calibrated off a good setup would have bought the latter(I've owned both simultaneously). Also the 3100 has an iris you can close, the 1100's is fully opened.

I guess it'll be the same story w/ the HC3800/4000(the 3900 being a dumbed down 3800?), and at least Mits know how to code firmwares. When the Mustang HD2+ panel was posterizing like hell on the Toshiba MT700, it wasn't on the HC1100.

Good to know the optics are better than in the HC3k/3100...I wonder if they'd be as good as the BenQ W5/20K

if the street price is $1.5K then it's indeed great news!
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Old 11-01-2010, 03:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leeperry View Post

When the Mustang HD2+ panel was posterizing like hell on the Toshiba MT700, it wasn't on the HC1100.

if the street price is $1.5K then it's indeed great news!

The MT700 was a 720p chip. Even if TI calls the .065" 1080p chip in the Mits a DC2+ (not clear at all), it's unlikely it performs like the older DC2+ 720p chips., it probably performs better (resolution excluded).

Again, TI has been rather vague about the class of most of the 1080p chips out there and how they compare to the earlier class 720p chips (DC2, DC2+, DC3, etc.).
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Old 11-01-2010, 04:02 PM
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I meant that Mits seem to master DLP better than BenQ and Toshiba...they didn't even need to update the HC3100. It's got a few problems like 48Hz blinking as hell in 5X CW mode, but it's most likely a hardware issue.

I think I read about quite a lot of HC3800 that would lock up after a few hours...hopefully the HC4k will benefit from what those early adopters(read guinea pigs) had to go through

Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if the HC3900 was running a DC1 like on the BenQ W5K. And it's usually hard to compare the panels because the lightpaths are different....Joe Kane said that the mirrors were faster on DC2, and a more advanced lightpath on a DC2 would most likely yield more CR than a basic DC3 set up. It's like trying to compare DAC chips in external DAC units, it hardly ever works because their output buffers color the sound drastically.

Hopefully C4H will disassemble and benchmark it, they make the most technical reviews out there IME. Still curious about the native/ANSI CR's.
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Old 11-01-2010, 04:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leeperry View Post

Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if the HC3900 was running a DC1 like the BenQ W5K. And it's usually hard to compare the panels because the light paths are different....Joe Kane said that the mirrors were faster on DC2, and a more advanced light path on a DC2 would most likely yield more CR than a basic DC3 set up. It's like trying to compare DAC chips in external DAC units, it hardly ever works because their output buffers colors the sound drastically.
.

I agree about the lightpath/optics being a big factor. There were certainly some 720p DC2 PJ's outperforming DC3's in native contrast. It's perhaps the most likely reason TI and PJ manufactures have been playing down what model DLP chip their PJ's have. It's the performance leaving the lens that matters

And I do remember the comment about DC2 chips being capable of faster mirror speeds, or something to that effect. Essentially, I think there were observations of more dithering on DC3's vs DC2's, though I've always thought that had to do more with the processor speed (assuming the same CW speed). Also, I think there were more 720p DC3 Pj's with faster CW's (5x, 6x) while few DC2's had anything beyond 4x. That would explain the higher dithering rate of the DC3's of the day.

The Benq W6000 seems to have the same chip as the HC3800, yet the W6000 was measuring around 1,000-1,200:1 native contrast vs the HC3800's 2,300:1 native.
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Old 11-01-2010, 04:54 PM
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I see the HC4000 in stock for $1495 at a couple places online. Anyone ordered one yet?
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Old 11-01-2010, 09:10 PM
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Just back from running the marathon in DC yesterday and about all I could do was lay on the couch and watch the projector/ play halo.

PRO:

Very bright
Stunning image
small size
no motion blur at all and seemingly very good lag for videogames
very very sharp image.

Cons
very noisy on bright mode but I haven't needed this even during the day with windows shades up in the adjoining room.

light leakage, dosen't bother me but it is substantial.

I had the epson and watched a movie with it before sending it back and due to that projectors large size and flicker on faces during sences with motion that my wife and I noticed I am very glad I spent a little extra for the mitsu
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Old 11-02-2010, 09:06 AM
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I had the epson and watched a movie with it before sending it back and due to that projectors large size and flicker on faces during sences with motion that my wife and I noticed I am very glad I spent a little extra for the mitsu

When u say the Epson...what model are u referring about?

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Old 11-03-2010, 12:36 AM
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beagle77

Sorry for terrible english - are you real owner of HC4000? If it's true - tell me, where you buy it and how much it cost for you? I will very thanksfull for few fotos of projector and screen w/movie running. Thanks a lot.
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Old 11-04-2010, 06:51 AM
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Old 11-04-2010, 08:01 AM
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I think that goes for most Benq projectors.

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Old 11-04-2010, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leeperry View Post

the HC4k might very well be the cheapest 1080p DC3, but I guess the BenQ W20k would smoke it sharpness-wise.

The W20000 will definitely have better black levels, but it will be a much dimmer PJ than the HC3800 to get those black levels (low lamp + closed down iris).

Not sure if the W20000 optics are any better than the HC3800, but the W20k does have the .95" DLP chip which is suppose to have a sharpness advantage over the .65" chip used in the HC3800 http://www.videovantage.com/?p=11
Ironically there are only 2 pics that compare .65" vs .95" chips, most of the pics compare to JVC's RS20 (so a good article that compares DLP to LCOS sharpness).

I woulda bought a refurb W20000 from the Benq store before the HC3800 came out, they were around $1600 at the time, but the zero offset wouldn't work for my room. Yes, I actually need a PJ with a good amount of offset. So while many complained about the high offset of the HC3800, I liked it
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Old 11-06-2010, 06:58 AM
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I purchased the mitsu from PP on a deal of the day for a hundred off so I paid 1400 i think. I had the Epson 8350 that also purchased from PP. I did not like the flicker I saw in faces while watching "The Rock" or the fast motion parts of the movie. The still pictures where stunning however. I think the mitsu is better in every category especially contrast which is not what I expected. I ordered the mitsu after getting the epson because the epson was so huge physically and looked like it belonged in a museum. I was hoping the mistu would at least compare favorably. In my opinion the mitsu blows the epson out of the water.
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Old 11-07-2010, 01:58 PM
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Beagle77, how was the image uniformity? Was the corner to corner brightness pretty much even? The 2 HC4000s I've gotten so far were really terrible. I haven't received the 3rd yet, but I'm hoping it's not a characteristic of the projector.
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Old 11-07-2010, 02:17 PM
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Do you guys think the Benq w1000+, epson 8350 and mitsubishi hc4000 are on par? Because here in germany the 4000 is pretty expensive compared to the us, is the w1000+ an alternative of similar quality or is it worse?
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Old 11-13-2010, 03:14 AM
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Originally Posted by DieBrotmafia View Post
Do you guys think the Benq w1000+, epson 8350 and mitsubishi hc4000 are on par? Because here in germany the 4000 is pretty expensive compared to the us, is the w1000+ an alternative of similar quality or is it worse?
Good question!
All i can say is that 1000+ is a lot better than the old 1000, and that I now prefer 1000+ over HD20.
anyone that compared 1000+ with 8350 and 4000?
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Old 11-13-2010, 04:52 AM
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I found a site who are selling HC4000 with only USD 1179.

"electrocloseout.com"

Is here anyone who know this site is trustable or not?
I think this price is too cheap.
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Old 11-13-2010, 08:39 AM
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I found a site who are selling HC4000 with only USD 1179.

"electrocloseout.com"

Is here anyone who know this site is trustable or not?
I think this price is too cheap.

Thanks for the heads up, anyone know anything about them?
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Old 11-13-2010, 10:18 AM
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Thanks for the heads up, anyone know anything about them?

It sounds a bit sketchy. The projector has only recently arrived at the large projector distributors, and they are now only offering occasional limited discounts. It seems unlikely that there would be any significant closeout deals on this projector. Then of course there are the reviews. See this link.

http://www.resellerratings.com/store/ElectroCloseOut
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Old 11-13-2010, 11:31 AM
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Anyone know if Mitsu is allowing users to upgrade from a HC3800 to a HC4000? Mine has a issue from time to time with the image getting exterememly jazzed up so it needs to go in for repair else replaced for a new model. I actually wouldn't mind pay some more since it's got a better DLP cheap and hopefully more reliable... Overall the HC3800 is perfect for me minus the ocassional image issue. Usualyl a few reboots fixes the issue.
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Old 11-14-2010, 09:47 AM
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It sounds a bit sketchy. The projector has only recently arrived at the large projector distributors, and they are now only offering occasional limited discounts. It seems unlikely that there would be any significant closeout deals on this projector. Then of course there are the reviews. See this link.

http://www.resellerratings.com/store/ElectroCloseOut

Thanks for the link.... more proof in favor of the old rule, if it sounds to good to be true it probably is...
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Old 11-15-2010, 06:08 AM
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So hot:
Mitsubishi HC 4000 projector is the best till ever was in my house. I am a DLP fan and I can'ts ee the rainbow so this problem may be that the only weakness of this projector for me to fall off.
Mitsu is just f .... cool. Phisical Look is not outstanding but it knocks with image quality settings and the ability to just be cool. We have the ability to set the range of 3 gama settings predefined , full color adjustments in the six primary colors R, G, B, C, M, Y, or if someone has a colorimeter and calibration applet can do full calibration, although not really needed, ideally a projector shines factory modes, mozan do small adjustments based on the settings of the sites http://www.projector...calibration.php, and is just perfect, not even the colors I've had with Sony HW15 which is also calibrated. Generally, the projector is a super sharp image is comparable to the mega three-dimensional image of Optomy HD82, perhaps by a very high contrast of 730:1 ANSI by measurements, and by the same chip DC3, the colors are perfectly saturated, the faces have a natural color, detail in dark scenes just perfect and really deep blacks. Perhaps a little weaker than the Sony but eqaul to Optoma which is almost 2 times expensive, my previous HD800x Optoma, Optoma HD20,which has recently tested do not have any chance on any of them got just such a great color or black level. Scene from Fifth Element with the ship on the background space, which is always used to describe blacks fared well, almost as good as the Sony HW-15 which I believe is bestthe projector with the best blacks from all that I saw in the middle class, of course, this is not a JVC but the three-dimensionality I think the picture is even better than the JVC.
Mitsubishi is still basically an advantage if you set it in Sport mode and calibrate the colors we can watch the movie without loss of image quality even at medium light, maybe not on a sunny day but some people like mi any projector so far could not make good performance with light in the kitchen / living room and the Mitsubishi without any loss in quality do it!!!! I could watch "Gladiator" perfect and full of saturated colors, black was black and white was white, image just super. Not to mention watching football games with my friends with glass in order to properly dispense "drinks relaxants" is superrrrr. I recommend this projector to anyone because I think that in price range to 1500 EUR there is no better pj, and even the the price to 2500 EUR ither, I will try tonight to embed some photos from the projection, and so even though the photos do not show the true image quality ones will give some idea of the picter quality
greetings
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