The official Epson 8700UB thread - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 2904 Old 10-18-2010, 10:30 AM
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@ slantsflood, zephion, and engelba:

Thanks so much for your observations and opinions. I think I'm in a similar boat: trying to finish up my "open" media area for my first projector setup. Though the area will be light controlled (most of the time), I do like a minimal amount of ambient light.

I've been looking at the Epson line for a while now -- and always considered that my target -- but always heard JVC was the solution to beat (if you could afford it.) I figured since the HD250 was now in the ballpark it might be worth a closer look.

Sounds like all things considered, I'll probably still focus on the Epson for my setup.

Thanks again for chiming in. Your impressions are much appreciated.
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post #92 of 2904 Old 10-18-2010, 06:46 PM
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Very little info on this new projector. Is it really the same as the 8500 or is there a difference. I am waiting to upgrade from a panasonic ae3000 and was hoping for some reviews.

Dan Webster
Never stop upgrading!

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post #93 of 2904 Old 10-18-2010, 08:42 PM - Thread Starter
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No problem. Alot of good people on here helping others out. Some of us live in places where we cant see these pjs so we have to take unbiased opinions on how we make our choice
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post #94 of 2904 Old 10-19-2010, 06:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zephion View Post

Local home theater distributor called and said "we have the new 9700UB and JVC 550 for you to check out"... I jumped on it and decided to bring the wife and kids with me.

zephion: How did the Epson and JVC compare noise wise? I have a Epson 6500 right now, that is a couple feet away from the front row, and I find the fan distracting at the low/eco setting. I am looking to upgrade to either the 8700 or 550 myself.

Thanks
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post #95 of 2904 Old 10-19-2010, 08:02 AM
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The Epson was about 3 feet forward and about 5 ft over my head from a sitting position and no projector sounds heard.

The JVC was directly over head around 6-7ft from sitting position. No sound heard.

Fan noise on both systems was not noticeable... but to be honest with you with a properly configured surround sound system I'm pressed to understand how you would hear the fan noise even in quite scenes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by smbsocal View Post

zephion: How did the Epson and JVC compare noise wise? I have a Epson 6500 right now, that is a couple feet away from the front row, and I find the fan distracting at the low/eco setting. I am looking to upgrade to either the 8700 or 550 myself.

Thanks

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post #96 of 2904 Old 10-19-2010, 08:04 AM
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In eco mode you'll hear the dynamic iris on the Epson before you will the fan.

Stephen.

Chances are very good that I was drinking when I posted the above.

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post #97 of 2904 Old 10-19-2010, 08:10 AM
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Not problem with noise on my epson 8700, mounted about 5 feet above the couch.... If you try and listen for it you can - I generally don't notice it. The iris is even quiter.

I would say if you are 4-5 feet away from it, it probably won't bother you.
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post #98 of 2904 Old 10-19-2010, 09:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zephion View Post

The Epson was about 3 feet forward and about 5 ft over my head from a sitting position and no projector sounds heard.

The JVC was directly over head around 6-7ft from sitting position. No sound heard.

Fan noise on both systems was not noticeable... but to be honest with you with a properly configured surround sound system I'm pressed to understand how you would hear the fan noise even in quite scenes.

Great thanks. Everything I am reading is pointing me towards the Epson 8700.

Oh, I am over the top compulsive about certain things. Noise coming from the projector or the HTPC are very high on my list.
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post #99 of 2904 Old 10-19-2010, 12:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zephion View Post

If you cant tell by now I am saving myself the $1000 bucks between the 9700UB and getting the 8700UB with the voucher!

Noobie here, seriously considering the 8700, but local HT company trying to sell me on the 9700. He lists the differences as:

9700 has the extra bulb in the box. The 8700 is through a mail in rebate.
I'm not sure how long that promotion is available.

Ceiling Mount included 9700

Built in processor to add a 2:40 Lens 9700

Back cover to hide wires 9700

The 9700 has a 3 year warranty instead of 1 year warranty on the 9700

The 9700 has more ISF settings

The 9700 is black and the 8700 is white


All this worth $1000???

Thanks for your input!
Bill
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post #100 of 2904 Old 10-19-2010, 12:24 PM
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2 years on the 8700 I believe
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post #101 of 2904 Old 10-19-2010, 12:28 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dr bill View Post

Noobie here, seriously considering the 8700, but local HT company trying to sell me on the 9700. He lists the differences as:

9700 has the extra bulb in the box. The 8700 is through a mail in rebate.
I'm not sure how long that promotion is available.

Ceiling Mount included 9700

Built in processor to add a 2:40 Lens 9700

Back cover to hide wires 9700

The 9700 has a 3 year warranty instead of 1 year warranty on the 9700

The 9700 has more ISF settings

The 9700 is black and the 8700 is white


All this worth $1000???

Thanks for your input!
Bill

The bulb is the biggest factor, and you get that with the 8700. Do you plan on shelf mounting, or ceiling? If you shelf mount, then the ceiling mount is worthless. Do you feel the projector being black warrants an extra $1,000? It may have more ISF settings, but unless you are a very picky videophile, they won't make one bit of difference. The 8700 supports an anamorphic lens as well, according to the specs.

If you are able to spend the extra 1k, I would wait for the Epson 21000 to come out, and get that instead (pending reviews). If you are new to projectors, I would go with the 8700. I would not pay the extra $1,000, but I am a cheap bastard. =)
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post #102 of 2904 Old 10-19-2010, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dr bill View Post

Noobie here, seriously considering the 8700, but local HT company trying to sell me on the 9700. He lists the differences as:

9700 has the extra bulb in the box. The 8700 is through a mail in rebate.
I'm not sure how long that promotion is available.

Ceiling Mount included 9700

Built in processor to add a 2:40 Lens 9700

Back cover to hide wires 9700

The 9700 has a 3 year warranty instead of 1 year warranty on the 9700

The 9700 has more ISF settings

The 9700 is black and the 8700 is white


All this worth $1000???

Thanks for your input!
Bill

Personally, I don't think it's worth $1000 more.

1) Ceiling mount included, that's cool.
2) anamorphic mode, the 8700 has it too.
3) wire cover to hide the wires? If you're using the included ceiling mount there's only so much hiding to do.
4) extra year on the warranty, yes, that's nice to have.
5) Even with more settings available I'd be quite surprised if the 9700 is capable of producing a noticeably better looking calibrating picture than the 8700.
6) Case color may matter to you depending on setup.
7) The extra bulb is a non issue since you get it either way.

Stephen.

Chances are very good that I was drinking when I posted the above.

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post #103 of 2904 Old 10-19-2010, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zephion View Post

If you are new to projectors, I would go with the 8700. I would not pay the extra $1,000, but I am a cheap bastard. =)

Yes, cheap bastard here, too!

I will ceiling-mount, but I can't see spending the extra $$$ on the 9700.
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post #104 of 2904 Old 10-19-2010, 01:04 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dr bill View Post

Yes, cheap bastard here, too!

I will ceiling-mount, but I can't see spending the extra $$$ on the 9700.

If it's your first projector, you would easily be blown away with the 8350. The 8700UB is significantly better than the 8350 though. It all depends on your room too, if it is light controlled, screen, wall color, ceiling color...etc.. I have the 6500UB, as far as picture quality, and customer service my allegiance lies with Epson. They do have their issues, but Epson is very good at handling any issues you may have. I had to send mine back twice, and take it in for a firmware update, but I'd do it all over again.
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post #105 of 2904 Old 10-19-2010, 01:50 PM
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Yes, I'm sold on the 8700. It will be my first projector, projecting on a screen. Dark walls, ceiling, and carpet.

It will go in a dedicated home theater in the basement (to be built; awaiting bids now!!!). The room will have some windows (my wife's idea, not mine...) but will otherwise be set up as a serious home theater. Can't wait to get started!
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post #106 of 2904 Old 10-19-2010, 02:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shelly40 View Post

So I haven't even looked at all the new projector offerings the last couple of years since I got a 1080UB......

I've been very happy with it.......

What does the new 8700 UB offer over the 1080 UB ?


Thanks for any info

Shelly

Shelly,
From what we can surmise around here, the main differences between yours and the new one is 1) more light output in best mode on the new one 2) slightly better blacks on the new one 3) marginally better perceived sharpness through software on the new one. Most of the reviews from last year said if you already owned the 1080UB that the 8500 wasn't worth the upgrade. The 8700 should be about the same machine...if you really want to notice a difference when you upgrade you should probably be looking at the 93000 or the JVC RS40 (about twice the $ of this pj).

Just one man's opinion...
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post #107 of 2904 Old 10-19-2010, 02:44 PM
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ok- am leaning HEAVY toward the 8700 (over the 4000)
1. so I want to get a 2.54:1 screen setup---I am planning on getting a 5x12foot laminate screen-
1a. can somone help with finished size dimensions?
1b.Is that screen too big?
1c.currently about 12 feet celining shelf mount from screen --good?
1d. I assuming i will have to cut the screen- any good way to mount laminate- I think u used velcro on last one- might have screwed to wall- will look

2. I will put permanent black felt on top/bottom for the "black bars" and moveable curtains on sides to get to 16x9- correct?
3. people say it will do 2.54... I have stumbled across this in other threads- anyone currently with a 8700 doing it OK-PITA to switch?

This pj should destroy my panny 900- just looking forward to widescreen and need a little assistance with screen for this pj.

I suck at teh home theater
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post #108 of 2904 Old 10-19-2010, 03:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cleatus View Post

ok- am leaning HEAVY toward the 8700 (over the 4000)
1. so I want to get a 2.54:1 screen setup---I am planning on getting a 5x12foot laminate screen-
1a. can somone help with finished size dimensions?
1b.Is that screen too big?
1c.currently about 12 feet celining shelf mount from screen --good?
1d. I assuming i will have to cut the screen- any good way to mount laminate- I think u used velcro on last one- might have screwed to wall- will look

2. I will put permanent black felt on top/bottom for the "black bars" and moveable curtains on sides to get to 16x9- correct?
3. people say it will do 2.54... I have stumbled across this in other threads- anyone currently with a 8700 doing it OK-PITA to switch?

This pj should destroy my panny 900- just looking forward to widescreen and need a little assistance with screen for this pj.

How far are you sitting away from the screen? This website can help you decide if your screen is too big, although this is sometimes a personal taste issue. Some people like it REALLY BIG (like 50+ angles).

http://myhometheater.homestead.com/v...alculator.html
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post #109 of 2904 Old 10-19-2010, 04:43 PM
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bout 12 feet from screen

I suck at teh home theater
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post #110 of 2904 Old 10-19-2010, 04:43 PM
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hey guys say something about the anamorphic lenson this unit! Does they work like on ae4000 or what. Please can someone post a video or image of this option.

JVC DLA-X35, 150" 2.35:1 Flat Screen
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post #111 of 2904 Old 10-19-2010, 06:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cleatus View Post

bout 12 feet from screen

That's pretty wide.. 12ft to a 12ft wide screen is over 53 degree viewing angle (40-45 is usually considered normal, if you are doing 2.35:1)... I personally think it might be a tad bigger. 10-11ft might be better.. at least for me.
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post #112 of 2904 Old 10-20-2010, 07:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by engelba View Post

So I took a swag at this last night with laughable results.....

This the 1st time I've tried calibrating a projector and certainly the 1st time I've tried setting the primary/secondary colors (never had a display with a CMS before). Before this I've done a couple of LCD displays and my trusty CRT RPTV.

I pretty much followed the grayscale for dummies guide and attached is my result. It appears the red "tracks" well but the green and blue are "bowed" out. Needless to say, the colors look awful after my calibration.

I went through the excercise twice, resetting everything in bewteen the 2 attempts. The results were nearly the same (grayscale was a bit better on my 2 attempt). The 2 grayscale dots that are way outside are 10% and 0% IRE (I believe). All this was done in THX color mode.


A couple of interesting things I noted....

It appears THX mode grayscale is set for 7000K as it tracked that quite well. I had to add alot of red (R gain) to get it down to 6500 (plus a few other tweaks in other colors).

Out of the box, the green primary is WAY off. Red/Blue were kind of close. Secondaries we kind of close.


So I am going to take another swag at this, any suggestions appreciated. I will probably just create another thread over in the display calibration forum for my misadventures in calibration and post stuff in this thread specific to the 8700.

Thanks for conducting those measurements. You did a very good job hitting the saturation points at 100% saturation. Looking at the chart, it seems as though Epson still hasn't completely fixed their CMS. If working correctly, if you hit the 100% saturation points, the other points within the triangle should all be evenly spaced apart. Green and blue are obviously off, and red isn't evenly spaced, although the hue is good. The CMS is still better than no CMS, but it still isn't working the way it should. This has been the case since the 1080UB. However, if your gamma was not at 2.22, then the points will not be in the correct location anyway. Can you verify what your gamma is measuring?

Here is the order I go in when I calibrate my Epson.:
Focus
Brightness
Contrast
Greyscale
Gamma
Color Saturation, hue, and brightness

If your gamma is not at 2.22, do you think you can adjust it and rerun the saturation points?

Thanks.
Dan
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post #113 of 2904 Old 10-20-2010, 07:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stereomandan View Post

If your gamma is not at 2.22, do you think you can adjust it and rerun the saturation points?

I will take another shot at this.... I've had some better results since my 1st attempt, but still not right.

Alot of this has to do with me being a newbie, so I am definately not ready to conclude there is a problem with the CMS.

I am still trying to figure out what is going on with the "normal" versus "expanded" video range. When I use expanded everything looks really washed out. I have a thread going over in the calibration forum about it.

BTW is there any way for HFCR to display the "correct"/reference saturation points on the CIE diagram? Like your pictures?
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post #114 of 2904 Old 10-20-2010, 08:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fight4yu View Post

That's pretty wide.. 12ft to a 12ft wide screen is over 53 degree viewing angle (40-45 is usually considered normal, if you are doing 2.35:1)... I personally think it might be a tad bigger. 10-11ft might be better.. at least for me.

looks like it will be more 10ft wide...

I suck at teh home theater
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post #115 of 2904 Old 10-20-2010, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by engelba View Post

I will take another shot at this.... I've had some better results since my 1st attempt, but still not right.

Alot of this has to do with me being a newbie, so I am definately not ready to conclude there is a problem with the CMS.

I am still trying to figure out what is going on with the "normal" versus "expanded" video range. When I use expanded everything looks really washed out. I have a thread going over in the calibration forum about it.

BTW is there any way for HFCR to display the "correct"/reference saturation points on the CIE diagram? Like your pictures?

If you use expanded mode, you need to readjust your brightness and contrast.

For instance, if I were to use normal mode, my brightness and contrast might be -1, +1, but if I use expanded mode, my brightness is -11 and contrast is +11. (I think I have that right)

I don't think HFCR can display those images. You have to get them from the AVSHD REC.709 disc.

Dan
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post #116 of 2904 Old 10-20-2010, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stereomandan View Post

I don't think HFCR can display those images. You have to get them from the AVSHD REC.709 disc.

Dan


I probably wasn't clear.... On the HCFR CIE graph I would like to have it show the "perfect" saturation points (i.e. your little plus signs on your charts) so I can see how far off my measured ones are.
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post #117 of 2904 Old 10-20-2010, 02:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vao View Post

hey guys say something about the anamorphic lenson this unit! Does they work like on ae4000 or what. Please can someone post a video or image of this option.

Yes it works like ae4000 but no memory like ae4000 I love the 8700 works for me even with my lights on full still looks good. Sorry no pictures yet.
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post #118 of 2904 Old 10-20-2010, 08:41 PM
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So I finally decided on a projector today and its the 8700. Ordered from a semi-local business, couple of hours away but near family so I can visit when I go to pick it up. Once they get it in they are going to take it out and check everything over with me before I take it home. My Chief mount comes in tomorrow so I will get it setup this weekend, and hopefully this time next week I will be enjoying this wonderful projector. I know I could have ordered online and had the projector for this weekend, but I like supporting the smaller local shops and having a 30 day return window is nice, not that I plan on having to return it.
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post #119 of 2904 Old 10-22-2010, 08:31 AM
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I purchased a 8500UB 5 weeks ago and over the past week it has been acting up. I tried to replace the splitter and hdmi cable and finally last night BOOM flashing red lights. I purchased this through ABT with the extended warranty. They came out today and replaced it with a 8700UB Back in Business baby.
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post #120 of 2904 Old 10-22-2010, 08:42 AM
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Thanks!

JVC DLA-X35, 150" 2.35:1 Flat Screen
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