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If I understand correctly, the Dual Link DVI mode is two DVI cables that provide a stereo view on a single output correct? What if one was to place two identical 1080p projectors and overlay the images. Using the dual link dvi to each unit, there would be left/right channel projected. Would this work? I currently have two Epson 8100 projectors and would love to try this out... but before I buy the kit, I want to check if there is a snowballs chance this will work. Yes, I know there are 3D projectors... Thoughts? infurno is offline Sponsored Links Advertisement Old 10-08-2010, 07:12 PM Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 264 Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s) Quoted: 0 Post(s) Liked: 10 Quote: Originally Posted by infurno Nvidia has a product called 3D Vision which enables 3D by shutter glasses on compatible displays. If I understand correctly, the Dual Link DVI mode is two DVI cables that provide a stereo view on a single output correct? What if one was to place two identical 1080p projectors and overlay the images. Using the dual link dvi to each unit, there would be left/right channel projected. Would this work? I currently have two Epson 8100 projectors and would love to try this out... but before I buy the kit, I want to check if there is a snowballs chance this will work. Yes, I know there are 3D projectors... Thoughts? From what I've been reading it will work. You need to use to polarized lenses though. Not sure where you get them, but you need to find them. They are the same ones in the 3d classes you get at the movie theater. One projector uses on lens and the other uses another, then you can use real D classes on your projector. mat82284 is offline Old 10-08-2010, 07:35 PM - Thread Starter Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 27 Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s) Quoted: 0 Post(s) Liked: 10 That sounds good, passive glasses would be ideal... However, trouble is that the 8100 is not very bright to begin with. The filters would reduce the output even further and even leave it hardly worth watching? I was hoping shutter glasses would allow for a brighter image. infurno is offline Old 10-08-2010, 08:12 PM AVS Addicted Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: WA State Posts: 15,593 Mentioned: 3 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s) Quoted: 54 Post(s) Liked: 170 You also need a Sliver screen along with the polarized lenses for the projectors. http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...or,2589-6.html Jason DaGamePimp is offline Old 10-09-2010, 03:14 AM Newbie Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 5 Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s) Quoted: 0 Post(s) Liked: 10 Nvidia 3Dvision is currently not compatible with dual projection setups. As the epson 8100 does not support 120Hz refresh rates it is not suitable for alternating frame S3D. It is however possible to forgo the use of Nvidia's software and get a working dual projection system. It does take a bit of time but we setup one in a renovation and it looks great. Dont forget that in dual projection each eye has one projector dedicated to it which greatly reduces the light losses compared to a single projection system. However it takes a bit of work to make the projectors reasonably aligned and setting up software and hardware to playback 3D blurays, games, HDMI1.4 over HDMI1.3 x2 is quite complex and I am still figuring out how to get around all these special issues. (Bluray, games, etc work fine, HDMI1.4 option currently is a bit pricey to add) Also dual link DVI is not for 3D it just specifies a higher data rate which can support 120hz or high resolution displays. Since you have both projectors an advisable route would be to get cheap polarizing filters and glasses which will cost you less than100's except you need to position the filters in front of the projector and have a non-depolarizing screen (Silver screen). However this route does take a lot more work then using a single projector. We are extremely sensitive to the DLP rainbow effect and can easily see flicker so the combination in DLP 3D ready projectors is a no go route for us.

If you want a ready to use solution it is not advisable to attempt making a dual projection setup as they require some extra work on your part.
A20052007 is offline
Old 10-09-2010, 03:55 AM

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Hi

Dual-link single-cable DVI and dual-cable single-link DVI are two completely different transmission formats, you can't use a simple cable splitter, it won't work.

Although Nvidia does have the know-how to support dual projectors, Nvidia 3D vision does not support such a system : Nvidia 3D vision is a closed proprietary system that allows 3D only on the basis of a white list of approved 3D displays.
If you 3D display system is not on the list, the 3D vision software won't work.

There are other solutions to display 3D images and play 3D games which are not proprietary and will work on Dual projectors.
I own a passive polarised dual projector setup using these very projectors (Epson 8100).
See my report here at the Espon 8100 owner's thread :
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1#post19099091

Quote:
Originally Posted by infurno

That sounds good, passive glasses would be ideal... However, trouble is that the 8100 is not very bright to begin with. The filters would reduce the output even further and even leave it hardly worth watching?

I was hoping shutter glasses would allow for a brighter image.

Shutter glasses are brightness killers, especially on projectors !
If you do a passive polarised dual-projector setup with Epson 8100, you will definitely have enough brightness.
You probably won't use theatre "black" colour modes though, you'll mostly use normal (natural) mode and sometimes theatre mode.

If you have any questions, feel free to ask here, your questions would get lost in the Espon 8100 Owner's thread, I wouldn't find them.

Passive 3D, forever !
My Full-HD dual-projector passive polarised 3D setup. (really out of date ! I need to update it some day...)

BlackShark is offline
Old 10-09-2010, 09:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackShark

If you have any questions, feel free to ask here, your questions would get lost in the Espon 8100 Owner's thread, I wouldn't find them.

That was very helpful! Thanks! Don't know how I missed that.

Now my question is, does it make sense to invest in today? Where we have lots of 3D projectors coming around the corner. All the single unit 3d projectors are shutter glasses right...

Obviously one advantage of dual projector is passive glasses.

Using two projectors has it's cons. Two bulbs, twice the running noise, twice the heat, the lens offset, complexity, support, etc..

What are the advantages to a dual projector 3D system over a single unit?

If I understand correctly, the image quality should be superior. The brightness and contrast ratio would be vastly improved over a single projector, correct?

Since you have two units with two bulbs overlaying a single image.
infurno is offline
Old 10-09-2010, 10:22 AM

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There are various advantages over single unit DLP based shutter systems.

The most obvious one is of course the use of cheap and lightweight passive glasses, which cost 3€ a pop, so you won't fear loosing or breaking them. If you really want, you can buy more stylish and expensive ones but the small plastic ones are fine enough for me. However I would like to make one thing very clear : at dual projector setup is almost ALWAYS more expensive than a single projector shutter system. The only advantage to using cheap glasses is not the price : it's the trust you have in yourself and giving a pair of glasses to friends or children, knowing that if they break them or loose them it's not a big deal.

Brightness is also an obvious advantage since you have 2 projectors with 2 bulbs, you get twice the brightness. I don't think contrast would be technically changed much but the difference in brightness will definitely make the picture look better. DLPs are known to be starving on brightness when in 3D mode and have to be set on their maximum brightness levels to provide enough light.

You also have the choice to use any projector you want, from the cheap sub-1000$Optoma HD20 to expensive Panasonic or JVC projectors. It's also the only way we currently have to show FullHD 3D on projectors at the moment unless you can afford a 10.000$+ projector and professional gear to drive these projectors, and it's the only way I know of to display 1080p3D at 60fps on projectors. So if you play games and absolutely want 1080p on the projector, dual projectors is only way to do it. (upcoming 1080p 3D projectors only use hdmi1.4 and will only do 1080p at 24fps).

Lesser known advantages come from the passive system rather than the two projectors.
Since there is no shutter system : there is ZERO flicker, no matter how sensitive your eyes are, it is always better when using over long periods.

But the absolute must have for me and yet never advertised is simultaneous display of the pictures in the two eyes. Shutter systems with alternate viewing between the two eyes have a huge weakness : when viewing a scene with lots of motion (especially horizontal motion), objects start to loose their correct positions, the brain wants to track the moving objects yet they do not appear where they should be, the are late or the jump forward.
Then one of two things happen :
-> your brain surrenders (if you're lucky) you snap out of stereo vision, you loose the 3D effect and see just a blurry mess.
-> your brain keeps up with the picture (my case) and then you see objects at the wrong depth jumping back and forth, objects in the background appearing in front of objects in the foreground, etc... = big headache

None of this happen if the display shows the two pictures simultaneously, which is the case with dual projectors.
Usually movie directors know about this weakness and since most cinemas are equipped with some form of shutter based projection system, they avoid showing such scenes in 3D movies, but videogames don't follow this rule (usually it's quite the contrary).

Passive 3D, forever !
My Full-HD dual-projector passive polarised 3D setup. (really out of date ! I need to update it some day...)

BlackShark is offline
Old 10-09-2010, 04:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Two identical 1090p projects: check.
Two linear polarizers: check.
3 sets of RealD 3D polarized glasses: check.
3D Drivers: Check.

Only thing I'm missing is a screen.

It's not working on my white 1.1 projection screen since I can't get the image to fade no mater what angle. It's just cycling through the colors as I rotate and align the filter, but that's due to the optics in the 3LCD projectors.

I have some silver like fabric laying around but that's not working either.

Are there any quick solutions I could try tonight? I'm eager to see my first test.

Thought maybe try the flat silver windshield sunlight reflectors for cars?
infurno is offline
Old 10-09-2010, 04:43 PM

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RealD glasses are circular polarised, they won't work with linear filters.

For the silverscreen, I did not even try to make a DIY silver-screen, I just bought a screen surface already made so I know nothing about which paints you could use. The screen must reflect the light while maintaining the polarisation, you can't use any material.

Mississippi Man seems to have had some experience with making a DIY custom silverscreen material, maybe he could help you on that subject.

Passive 3D, forever !
My Full-HD dual-projector passive polarised 3D setup. (really out of date ! I need to update it some day...)

BlackShark is offline
Old 10-09-2010, 05:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackShark

RealD glasses are circular polarised, they won't work with linear filters.

That explains a lot. It just worked on this silver screen when using the two linear filters.

Thanks again!

I'll order a proper screen tomorrow and looks like I need some glasses too.
infurno is offline
Old 10-12-2010, 11:13 PM

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackShark

... and it's the only way I know of to display 1080p3D at 60fps on projectors. ...

Greetings BlackShark.

I am exploring the feasibility of displaying 1920x1080x60p video in 3D using a PC and would appreciate if you could kindly elaborate on how to achieve this.

Many thanks and best regards.
mariner888 is offline
Old 10-13-2010, 10:38 AM

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There are various ways of achieving 1920x1080x60fps per eye. I'll help the best way I can. what exactly is your project about ?
Just getting such a display or is it more about generating and distributing such a video file ?
Do you have any technical requirements ?

Passive 3D, forever !
My Full-HD dual-projector passive polarised 3D setup. (really out of date ! I need to update it some day...)

BlackShark is offline
Old 10-13-2010, 11:26 AM

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1. Read your post in the Epson thread but it wasn't clear if your PC was displaying a extended desktop of say 3840x1080 (or 1920x2160), or using special graphics hardware/driver to display left/right image sequentially.

2. What software is needed to generate such video format?

3. Can the same be done for 1920x1080x60p source such as video recorded by Panasonic and Sanyo camcorder?

Many thanks and best regards.
mariner888 is offline
Old 10-13-2010, 02:02 PM

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The system I use only works for Dual-head based displays (dual projectors and Stereo-mirror rigs). With this system the left and right eye views are not displayed sequentially, they are shown simultaneously.

I do not use extended desktop because in this mode, windows manages one display with maximum priority (primary display) and the other ones with lower priority (unstable refresh rate, V-sync issues, Overlay not working, picture often lagging behind by a frame). So until graphics card display drivers are updated to fix these issues, I have to use a different mode :

I use Eyefinity, a special feature of ATi Radeon 5xxx series graphics cards.
In this mode, the desktops are grouped into a single entity : one huge primary desktop that is 3840x1080 (or I can also use 1920x2160 if I want to) which the ATi driver keeps in perfect sync.

Software required depends on the source material and the application required. But the big advantage of this system is it's siimplicity.
Anything that is located on the left half of the desktop goes to the left eye, and on the right half of the desktop goes to the right eye.

Since most videos are stored side by side, just use your favourite video player in full screen and there you go. If the videos are squashed (3DTV format), just use the resize and aspect ratio of the video player to stretch the video to full screen to get the picture displayed correctly (since all 3DTV ready content is letterboxed to 16:9 and my projectors are also 16:9, no need to calculate ratios, just stretch to full screen resizing works fine, all good video players have this option).

If the video is stored differently (over under), you got two options, either change the eyefinity mode from horizontal to vertical (but that's long an annoying to do), or use a specialised video player like Stereoscopic player, that can transform about any format into any other format on the fly when playing the video. However my favourite method is to use FFDshow and an avisynth transform to do these tranformations in any video player.

I have never tested video sources from Panasonic or Sanyo video camcorders but it is my understanding that they record side by side video, so yes they should work just like any other video.

The one difficult point is BluRay3D, since all the currently available software to play BluRay3D follow the HDCP scheme, this system does not work, you can't playback a Blu Ray 3D disc directly, you have first to crack it and rip the left and right eye views before being able to watch these videos.

Passive 3D, forever !
My Full-HD dual-projector passive polarised 3D setup. (really out of date ! I need to update it some day...)

BlackShark is offline
Old 10-14-2010, 06:18 AM

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Thanks BlackShark.

1. Eyefinity.

Are you referring to the Create Display Group feature in the CCC?

Does it mean Nvidia cards are not suitable for dual-display 3D system?

2. 2D to 3D conversion

The 60p videos are 2D. Are there playback software/DS filters to convert these into 3840x1080 3D format for output?

3. Blu-Ray 3D

It's disappointing to learn that commercial software is not compatible with this system. Are there DS media players, eg MPC, that will playback these 3D Blu-Ray files and output in 3840x1080 format?

Best regards.
mariner888 is offline
Old 10-14-2010, 08:19 AM

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mariner888

1. Eyefinity.
Are you referring to the Create Display Group feature in the CCC?

Does it mean Nvidia cards are not suitable for dual-display 3D system?

Yes, Display Group is the Eyefinity feature. That is how it's configured on my computer.

I haven't tested Nvidia graphics cards, they are known to have a similar feature called span-desktop but I read reports from users saying it had some hiccups sometimes with the sync being not perfect.
Nvidia also introduced recently Nvidia SURROUND to compete against ATI's 3-display solution, but I think it only works if you have 3 displays, not 2 and requires 2 graphics cards in SLI.
I don't know if Nvidia is really recommendable at the moment for a dual projector setup, the sync issues might be resolved now and it might just work as well but I can't say for sure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mariner888

2. 2D to 3D conversion

The 60p videos are 2D. Are there playback software/DS filters to convert these into 3840x1080 3D format for output?

If you've got different files for left and right eye views, you can play them back simultaneously side by side with Stereoscopic player, it has a feature specifically to play 3D videos stored in separate left and right files.
If you want to use an other standard player, then Avisynth is your friend.

LeftEye = DirectShowSource(C:\\....\\File_left.avi or mp4 or mkv)
RightEye = DirectShowSource(C:\\....\\File_right.avi or mp4 or mkv)
SidebySide = StackHorizontal(LeftEye,RightEye)
Return(SidebySide)

As far as 2D to 3D conversion goes, I tried it but wasn't impressed, that was about a year and a half ago. Most of them are included in dedicated video players, but there is also a DirectShow filter called 3Dfier. It produced a side by side Left/right video out of any standard 2D video.
It kind of worked but the resulting 3D was often bugged and guessed wrong. Also at that time the filter was not multithreaded so it couldn't keep up with an HD video.

I do not know how this filter works nowadays, if the authors managed to improve it significantly or not. I consider 2D to 3D conversion a gimmick, I would not even bother to try again
Quote:
Originally Posted by mariner888

3. Blu-Ray 3D

It's disappointing to learn that commercial software is not compatible with this system. Are there DS media players, eg MPC, that will playback these 3D Blu-Ray files and output in 3840x1080 format?

Best regards.

At the moment, BluRays need first to be extracted from the disc and then the only available Mpeg4-MVC filter is too slow to playback in real time, I also read it's very buggy (crashes if you try to seek)

Passive 3D, forever !
My Full-HD dual-projector passive polarised 3D setup. (really out of date ! I need to update it some day...)

BlackShark is offline
Old 10-15-2010, 08:43 AM

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackShark

At the moment, BluRays need first to be extracted from the disc and then the only available Mpeg4-MVC filter is too slow to playback in real time, I also read it's very buggy (crashes if you try to seek)

Blackshark, you said in your other thread that a Norwegian website had a way of converting the 3d Bluray's. Is this the same mpeg-mvc filter you are talking about here or something different that does indeed work?
knight2255 is offline
Old 10-15-2010, 12:25 PM

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It's the same thing, the filter they use pretty much only works when transcoding video, it doesn't work for normal playback.

Passive 3D, forever !
My Full-HD dual-projector passive polarised 3D setup. (really out of date ! I need to update it some day...)

BlackShark is offline
Old 10-15-2010, 07:11 PM

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So I guess a dual 3d pj system will not play 3d bluray's at all unless I rip it into the left/right views? Are there an tutorials out there on doing that? What software does this?

What format was the avatar trailer you showed in the pictures? Does the trailer play smooth?

Do you have a link to the norwegian site mentioned earlier?

Do you expect them to have the issues ironed out anytime soon(i.e. before xmas?)
knight2255 is offline
Old 10-16-2010, 04:58 AM

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That's right, at the moment there is no way to play 3D BluRays directly on dual projectors, I have no idea when it will be possible. It can happen in various ways, either free software specifically for it, a commercial software adding dual projector support, ATi or Nvidia display driver transforming the output from the video software into dual output, or a hardware converter box that takes hdmi 1.4 input and transforms into dual DVI outputs.

The website I mentioned is biohemmet.se (actually a Swedish website, not Norwegian, my mistake).
They have released a couple new software to make BluRay 3D video conversion process easier, It used to be free however the website recently required you to pay money to get access to their software.

There are probably mirrors somewhere else on the net providing copies for free but I haven't searched for them.

--------------------------------------------

The avatar trailer was from their website, well actually I managed to find somewhere on their forum the link to download the high quality source satellite TV broadcast file, forgot where exactly. The trailer was the German version with the audio track replaced with the English one.
Since it's a satellite TV broadcast, the file is side by side half resolution (both views contained in a standard 1920x1080p frame) It plays normally like any other 1080p 2D video.

I also have some other full resolution files (3840x1080), some video players don't like these huge files, but with a good CPU, the right mp4 or mkv splitters (haali's matroska splitter) and multi-threaded codecs, they play smoothly.

Passive 3D, forever !
My Full-HD dual-projector passive polarised 3D setup. (really out of date ! I need to update it some day...)

BlackShark is offline
Old 10-16-2010, 06:17 AM

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Thanks, I'm really thinking about giving this a shot with 2 refurbed Epson 1080ub's. These are the only sub-\$1k pj's I could find that had lens shift.

My only other question is what videocard to use. Would a Radeon HD5770 have enough resolution output to do this(looks like it is 50% the spec's of your 5870)?

What cable did you end up using to hook all this up?

Have you found anymore games that work in this type 3d setup. I don't game much and would mainly only like to play racing games in 3d.
knight2255 is offline
Old 10-16-2010, 09:46 AM

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Technically Video cards that support dual 1080p displays have been existing for a long time. I can reasonably say you can use any card you like.
However since you'll need the perfect sync, I'd recommend say any ATi graphics card which explicitly says on the box it supports Eyefinity.

An HD5770 should be fine. For gaming performance it really depends on the games you play and at what graphics setting. Rendering games at dual 1080p requires a tough graphics card, my HD5870 is good but sometimes it's barely enough, you may want to use lower resolutions with an HD5770.
Have a look around the web for benchmarks of the games you play, in 3D you should get approximatively 1/2 the framerate of 2D.

At the moment in order to play games I managed to use the "Eyefinity/grouped displays" setup in 2 games so far : Audiosurf and Trackmania United/Nations Forever (Native 3D mode without drivers, the game works but the HUD is broken, fortunately you can hide it).
For all the other games I have to use the normal Dual-Projector mode of the iZ3D driver which does not guarantee perfect sync.
I asked the iZ3D developers to add support for this special "grouped display" mode, they told me they would add it soon, so I'm waiting in hope, however I do not know when it will happen.

Passive 3D, forever !
My Full-HD dual-projector passive polarised 3D setup. (really out of date ! I need to update it some day...)

BlackShark is offline
Old 10-17-2010, 09:55 AM

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What cable are you using in your setup?
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Old 10-17-2010, 10:42 AM

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I use two 5 metre long hdmi1.3 cables connected to the computer to the DVI ports with a small DVI to hdmi adapter on each DVI port.
I could use the hdmi port directly for one of the projectors but I want to be absolutely sure the two projectors get exactly the same picture with the same processing at the exact same time, there are always surprises with hdmi.

Passive 3D, forever !
My Full-HD dual-projector passive polarised 3D setup. (really out of date ! I need to update it some day...)

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Old 10-19-2010, 01:24 AM

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackShark

Yes, Display Group is the Eyefinity feature. That is how it's configured on my computer.

I haven't tested Nvidia graphics cards, they are known to have a similar feature called span-desktop but I read reports from users saying it had some hiccups sometimes with the sync being not perfect.
Nvidia also introduced recently Nvidia SURROUND to compete against ATI's 3-display solution, but I think it only works if you have 3 displays, not 2 and requires 2 graphics cards in SLI.
I don't know if Nvidia is really recommendable at the moment for a dual projector setup, the sync issues might be resolved now and it might just work as well but I can't say for sure.

If you've got different files for left and right eye views, you can play them back simultaneously side by side with Stereoscopic player, it has a feature specifically to play 3D videos stored in separate left and right files.
If you want to use an other standard player, then Avisynth is your friend.

LeftEye = DirectShowSource(C:\\....\\File_left.avi or mp4 or mkv)
RightEye = DirectShowSource(C:\\....\\File_right.avi or mp4 or mkv)
SidebySide = StackHorizontal(LeftEye,RightEye)
Return(SidebySide)

As far as 2D to 3D conversion goes, I tried it but wasn't impressed, that was about a year and a half ago. Most of them are included in dedicated video players, but there is also a DirectShow filter called 3Dfier. It produced a side by side Left/right video out of any standard 2D video.
It kind of worked but the resulting 3D was often bugged and guessed wrong. Also at that time the filter was not multithreaded so it couldn't keep up with an HD video.

I do not know how this filter works nowadays, if the authors managed to improve it significantly or not. I consider 2D to 3D conversion a gimmick, I would not even bother to try again

At the moment, BluRays need first to be extracted from the disc and then the only available Mpeg4-MVC filter is too slow to playback in real time, I also read it's very buggy (crashes if you try to seek)

Greetings BlackShark. Took a bit of time to digest your informative post.

1. Capturing left/right video streams using two camcorders

While it's fun using Stereoscopic Player playing two video streams, and I suppose two TM700 or HD2000 can be mounted like this to record them, how would you synchronise them during playback?

On my Q8400/HD5670/W7x32 system, Stereoscopic Player struggles with dual 24mbps 1920x1080/60p Sanyo mp4 clips. It crashed when loading 28mbps Panasonic mts clip. Did you experience similar problem?

2. Avisynth

Do you mean creating a .avs file with the followig lines and play it back with MPC?

Quote:

LeftEye = DirectShowSource(C:\\....\\File_left.avi or mp4 or mkv)
RightEye = DirectShowSource(C:\\....\\File_right.avi or mp4 or mkv)
SidebySide = StackHorizontal(LeftEye,RightEye)
Return(SidebySide)

Does it work with mts or m2ts files?

3. 3Dfier

Playback with 3Dfier filter loaded n MPC could only managed ~50fps. Do you think this is due to the bottleneck in UVD2 or the CPU?

4. Mpeg4-MVC filter for realtime playback of 3D BD

Not much information on biohemmet.se. Are you referring to H264StereoSource.dll?

5. Polarising filters : Silverfabric POLAR-L-50

Do these work with the AE4000 or X3?

Many thanks and best regards.
mariner888 is offline
Old 10-19-2010, 04:46 PM

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mariner888

Greetings BlackShark. Took a bit of time to digest your informative post.

1. Capturing left/right video streams using two camcorders

While it's fun using Stereoscopic Player playing two video streams, and I suppose two TM700 or HD2000 can be mounted like this to record them, how would you synchronise them during playback?

On my Q8400/HD5670/W7x32 system, Stereoscopic Player struggles with dual 24mbps 1920x1080/60p Sanyo mp4 clips. It crashed when loading 28mbps Panasonic mts clip. Did you experience similar problem?

2. Avisynth

Do you mean creating a .avs file with the followig lines and play it back with MPC?

Does it work with mts or m2ts files?

3. 3Dfier

Playback with 3Dfier filter loaded n MPC could only managed ~50fps. Do you think this is due to the bottleneck in UVD2 or the CPU?

4. Mpeg4-MVC filter for realtime playback of 3D BD

Not much information on biohemmet.se. Are you referring to H264StereoSource.dll?

5. Polarising filters : Silverfabric POLAR-L-50

Do these work with the AE4000 or X3?

Many thanks and best regards.

1*
Any pair of cameras can be used to film stereoscopic content, however there is an issue with synchronizing the cameras so they have the same settings (focus, exposure, white balance, image stabiliser etc...). Most of these settings can be manually set so it takes time but you can make good shots.
There is one thing that cannot be controlled though : the lag between the cameras, since the cameras are not genlocked they do not capture their frames at exactly the same time.
You should be able to turn both cameras whenever you want, they do not need to be triggered simultaneously, you will sync them back together when editing the videos. With most of these cameras, you can get down to a less than 2-frame lag or even down to 1-frame lag (depends if the content is interlaced or progressive and if your video editing software allows 60fps editing)

There use to be special remote controllers for DV cameras, mostly LANC controllers that were designed to trigger the recording precisely at the same time and then monitor the lag during the shoot, however I read that they do not work any more with HD cameras. I haven't looked into the subject for while.

The sync lag is not a big issue as long as the scene you are filming is mostly static, but you film anything with motion, the artefacts caused by the lag will be an issue. You should mostly film with the dual cameras steady on a tripod otherwise the hand shake will will make the sync lag obvious and the picture will be unwatchable.

------
2*

Yes, this avisynth script opens two videos and stack them horizontally.
You can use it in a media player that supports .avs files to open a stereo 3D video that is published as separate left and right eye views. The two views must be already synchronized so don't open raw shots from your dual camera system this way.
I also use this very same script when i render my 3D vodeo for publishing. My current Video editing program (Sony Vegas 8) cannot deal with videos more than 2K resolution, so I cannot export directly in side by side.
I have to export the left and right eye views separately in full resolution and then merge the two using this avisynth script when reencoding into H.264 for publishing.

There are also other tricks you can do with avisynth, for example if the video is stored over/under and you do not want to change the projector configuration, FFDshow allows to use an avisynth script as post treatment, I use it to crop the video twice (once for left eye and once for right eye) and then rearrange the views horizontally the way I need them.

-----
3*
I don't use 3Dfier but as far as I know the the graphics card acceleration only opens the video, then the CPU does the rest. I do not know if the CPU is the bottleneck or is there is a memory bandwidth issue (i strongly doubt it) or if it's juste the filter that is not parallelizable enough to allow full usage of multi core CPU, there are too many unknowns, i cannot give an aaswer

---------
4*
yes H264StereoSource.dll is the only current application of this free MVC decoder I know of. The filter itself is not exactly a Directshow filter, I think it is the official published code of the team that standardized the MVC format, which as usual works (it's the reference decoder) but is too slow to be usable for realtime HD playback

I read somewere that a team of developers were looking into it to implement into FFMPEG/libavcodec (the codecs that power VLC and FFDshow), however I do not remember where exactly it was.

-----------
5* these filters are simply linear filters.
They will work with any projector which emits non-polarised light (a DLP projector) or with LCD projectors which emits light with horizontal or vertical polarisation. If your projector emits light with polarisation at an angle, you will get uneven brightness between the two eyes or strong colour shifts (like what happens when the filters are not properly positioned with my Epson 3-LCD projectors)

The Panasonic AE4000 is a 3-LCD projector so I guess it's inner workings are just like any other 3-LCD projector, it should work.
The JVC X3 is a LCoS/D-ILA projector I do not know the inner workings of these projectors to say for sure, but when i ordered my fitlers, Silverfabric provided a chart that indicated which filters worked with which type of projector and it clearly said that these filters would not work on LCoS projectors, these require special filters, which they also sell.

Passive 3D, forever !
My Full-HD dual-projector passive polarised 3D setup. (really out of date ! I need to update it some day...)

BlackShark is offline
Old 10-20-2010, 01:45 AM

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Thanks again, BlackShark.

1. Run into some problem with the following avs script using low res youtube mp4 files :

Quote:

LeftEye = DirectShowSource(D:\\0\\File_left.mp4)
RightEye = DirectShowSource(D:\\0\\File_right.mp4)
SidebySide = StackHorizontal(LeftEye,RightEye)
Return(SidebySide)

Quote:

Scrip error: expected a , or )
(D:\\0\\left_right.avs, line 1 column 29)

2. How do you specify which audio track to use?
mariner888 is offline
Old 10-20-2010, 05:42 AM

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I seems to have made a small mistake and forgot about the audio part, I just typed without reading the manual (the avisynth wiki). I usually always keep it open in a window before doing anything with avisynth, it's easy to forget small details.

LeftEye = DirectShowSource(

"C:\\....\\File_left.mp4")
RightEye = DirectShowSource("C:\\....\\File_right.mp4")
SidebySide = StackHorizontal(LeftEye,RightEye)
Return(SidebySide)
Normally Avisynth should only use one audio from the first audio it finds but if you want to set it manually you should use :

DirectShowSource("C:\\...\\file", audio=true) (default behaviour)
DirectShowSource("C:\\...\\file", audio=false) (to force Avisynth to not use audio from this file)

I once encountered some bugs with audio unsynching from the video using such a script, the video used some exotic playback options of the mkv file format, I had to use specify the framerate of the video to make it play properly

Passive 3D, forever !
My Full-HD dual-projector passive polarised 3D setup. (really out of date ! I need to update it some day...)

BlackShark is offline
Old 10-20-2010, 07:59 AM

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Thanks again, BlackShark.

Now MPC complains about not able to render the audio. The audio is AAC. Here is the clip properties:

Quote:

General
Complete name : D:\\0\\File_left.mp4
Format : MPEG-4
Format profile : Base Media / Version 2
Codec ID : mp42
File size : 20.1 MiB
Duration : 9mn 11s
Overall bit rate : 305 Kbps
Encoded date : UTC 2007-11-30 11:00:10
Tagged date : UTC 2007-11-30 11:00:10
gsst : 0
gstd : 551516
gssd : BDCFF0587HH1286813933308941

Video
ID : 2
Format : AVC
Format profile : Baseline@L1.1
Format settings, CABAC : No
Format settings, ReFrames : 1 frame
Codec ID : avc1
Codec ID/Info : Advanced Video Coding
Duration : 9mn 11s
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 196 Kbps
Maximum bit rate : 1 181 Kbps
Width : 320 pixels
Height : 240 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 4:3
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 29.970 fps
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.085
Stream size : 12.9 MiB (64%)
Title : (C) 2007 Google Inc. v06.24.2007.
Encoded date : UTC 2007-11-30 11:00:11
Tagged date : UTC 2007-11-30 11:00:13

Audio
ID : 1
Format : AAC
Format version : Version 4
Format profile : LC
Format settings, SBR : No
Codec ID : 40
Duration : 9mn 11s
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 106 Kbps
Maximum bit rate : 147 Kbps
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Channel positions : Front: L R
Sampling rate : 44.1 KHz
Stream size : 6.98 MiB (35%)
Title : (C) 2007 Google Inc. v06.24.2007.
Encoded date : UTC 2007-11-30 11:00:10
Tagged date : UTC 2007-11-30 11:00:13

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