Viewsonic Pro8200 -- it exists. - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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post #361 of 1089 Old 01-02-2012, 11:43 AM
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Just ordered this PJ on Newegg today for $659, and was looking to get some impressions.

I'm coming from an Optoma HD72 which was a great 720p projector, but the bulb is starting to get to the end of its life and I thought that it'd be smarter money to upgrade to 1080p instead of buying a new bulb.

I'm hoping that this projector will be a significant step up from HD72 which I bought 5 years ago.

Thoughts?
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post #362 of 1089 Old 01-02-2012, 02:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diablo900t View Post

Just ordered this PJ on Newegg today for $659, and was looking to get some impressions.

I'm coming from an Optoma HD72 which was a great 720p projector, but the bulb is starting to get to the end of its life and I thought that it'd be smarter money to upgrade to 1080p instead of buying a new bulb.

I'm hoping that this projector will be a significant step up from HD72 which I bought 5 years ago.

Thoughts?

The bulb replacement is around 150 dollars on the hd72. It's 5 years old. 720p. How is it for brightness. This pro8200 is a light cannon. I think you are doing the right thing. You can always have a back up by getting a bulb for the hd72. The pro8200 is good for multiple uses, school, business, home, travel, and can be used in semi bright locations, better than your hd72 in that dept. It has 2x10watt speakers, mic input. Maybe explain how you would be using it and the other guys can inform you better if it would be good for that. I was mostly looking for portable setup, something good for gaming, PC, movies on the go, and it works for me.
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post #363 of 1089 Old 01-03-2012, 05:55 AM
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Originally Posted by rgtaa View Post

The bulb replacement is around 150 dollars on the hd72. It's 5 years old. 720p. How is it for brightness. This pro8200 is a light cannon. I think you are doing the right thing. You can always have a back up by getting a bulb for the hd72. The pro8200 is good for multiple uses, school, business, home, travel, and can be used in semi bright locations, better than your hd72 in that dept. It has 2x10watt speakers, mic input. Maybe explain how you would be using it and the other guys can inform you better if it would be good for that. I was mostly looking for portable setup, something good for gaming, PC, movies on the go, and it works for me.

I have a dedicated room in my basement where the projector is, so i'll be using it for TV, Movies and videogames. The basement is almost completely dark with very little ambient light, so it being ultra bright isn't a huge benefit, but I will say that the Optoma bulb is getting pretty dim.

I'm pretty sure this is a smart move, and will result in a better quality image than the Optoma (even though it was highly rated for its day). Any thoughts on what I can get for the HD72? I'm probably going to put it on Craigslist.
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post #364 of 1089 Old 01-03-2012, 06:11 AM
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Still just gathering impressions of the projector-- but in a dedicated theater with light control, the thing is too bright.

I'm running it in eco mode and dark room and watching the Rose Bowl the whites were almost blinding (especially when the field was part shadow, part sunlight). I'll may be adding a ND1. I haven't measured the lens, but it's fairly large. In fact it's odd that they used such a large lens given the fixed offset-- the lens is nearly as big as my Hitachi was and it was referred to as cyclops by some reviewers.

The light output may drop slightly after the bulb ages, so I'm waiting until I get a couple of hundred hours on it to make any changes.

As an aside, if people want to increase apparent contrast and black levels, there is a very inexpensive solution-- control reflections. Paint the wall and ceiling black (or very dark gray), especially the wall that the screen is on. I was looking around the room and there was enough light bouncing off the screen to illuminate the room. My friends faces looked like we were sitting around a campfire at night.
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post #365 of 1089 Old 01-03-2012, 06:55 AM
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I should qualify my previous post.

I'm projecting a 98" image, with the projector only 10' or so from the screen. This calculates to 34 fl. I could reduce the light by moving the projector back some.

I'm projecting on the doable board-- the 4x8 white sheet from Home Depot that is popular on the DIY screen section.

I'm thinking I need to go to a 120" screen. At 120" or larger (it looks like 135" would be ideal in eco, dark room mode) the brightness would be about right- at 17 fl or so.
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post #366 of 1089 Old 01-03-2012, 03:17 PM
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I have no problem going from the $3000 JVC straight to the Viewsonic and watching a movie (as long as it is NOT something with mostly dark scenes).

It is incredible how high quality of an image you can get for such a low price with a DLP, other than the black levels (which no PJ will do good at this price), the projector is quite good. There is a slight motion resolution loss in movement, but the same thing happens to LCD and LCOS costing much more, not a concern really, not very noticeable to be honest.


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post #367 of 1089 Old 01-03-2012, 03:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

I have no problem going from the $3000 JVC straight to the Viewsonic and watching a movie (as long as it is NOT something with mostly dark scenes).

It is incredible how high quality of an image you can get for such a low price with a DLP, other than the black levels (which no PJ will do good at this price), the projector is quite good. There is a slight motion resolution loss in movement, but the same thing happens to LCD and LCOS costing much more, not a concern really, not very noticeable to be honest.

Thats great to hear! I think this is going to be a noticeable step up from my Optoma HD72. I haven't seen such a good deal on a 1080p projector...i spent $1800 on the Optoma back in 2006, so to upgrade for 1/3 of that price is pretty good to me.

Plus they extended the free projector screen promotion.
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post #368 of 1089 Old 01-03-2012, 03:46 PM
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I'm thinking of getting a lens to fit over the regular lens, something that I could use instead of having to put the lens cover on it, to protect the lens and leave it on 24/7. Something I can take off and clean and make sure the original lens stays clean and dust free.

Does that sound like good idea? And can any of you guys that own the pro8200 point us to brand, link, price of something that would work for all of us.

The other dual purpose could be ND filter, that could also double as something to protect the lens. I guess we need to find out how to fit it on and keep it on.

I'm new to PJ stuff. So I could benefit from your experience in this.
Thanks.
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post #369 of 1089 Old 01-03-2012, 04:04 PM
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I had something really weird happen just now on my unit, but it's still working (thought it was broke).

The projector was having trouble turning on, it kept turning the lamp on then off automatically. I shut it down a couple times, on the third attempt, lamp came back and projector appears to be working fine.

Lamp would come on like it was going to turn on, then color wheel and fan shut itself off and lamp would go blank, then before I even touched the power again it came back on automatically and worked. Never seen a projector do that before, might be a lamp issue, not sure though. Almost like the lamp was having trouble fully igniting at first.


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post #370 of 1089 Old 01-03-2012, 05:12 PM
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Not sure if this is relevant , just throwing it out for trouble-shooting purposes. Sounds like your machine went through the power on and off on it's own, right? And violated it's own "prime objective", look below.

Powering Off the Projector:
1. Press to turn off the projector lamp. You will see a message "Power off?
Press Power again" appear on the screen.
2. Press again to confirm.
 The cooling fans continue to operate for cooling cycle.
 When the Power LED begins flashing, the projector has entered stand-by
mode.
If you want to turn the projector back on, you must wait until the projector has
completed the cooling cycle and has entered stand-by mode. Once in standby
mode, simply press to restart the projector.

3. Disconnect the AC power cord from the electrical outlet and the projector.
4. Do not turn on the projector right after power off.
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post #371 of 1089 Old 01-03-2012, 06:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

I had something really weird happen just now on my unit, but it's still working (thought it was broke).

I think it was related to it being in a cold room I guess. The projector was having trouble turning on, it kept turning the lamp on then off automatically. I shut it down a couple times, on the third attempt, lamp came back and projector appears to be working fine.

That was so freaking weird though.

Lamp would come on like it was going to turn on, then color wheel and fan shut itself off and lamp would go blank, then before I even touched the power again it came back on automatically and worked. Never seen a projector do that before, might be a lamp issue, not sure though. Almost like the lamp was having trouble fully igniting at first.

I had a problem that sounds similar. the top cover that goes over the lamp wasn't hitting the safety switch properly. have you had the lamp cover off recently?
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post #372 of 1089 Old 01-03-2012, 06:17 PM
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Nope, it happened at exactly 500 hours of usage, that's the weird thing. The LED never flashed. I think it is too big of a coincidence that it happened at exactly 500 hours, maybe some kind of internal filter check or bug.


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post #373 of 1089 Old 01-03-2012, 07:19 PM
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There is a slight motion resolution loss in movement,

Any idea why this happens? Is it because not enough processing power? I noticed this a little on the HC4000 as well. My Infocus never did this, but of course that was only 480p, so can't compare.
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post #374 of 1089 Old 01-03-2012, 09:58 PM
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There are different reasons for motion resolution issues, one is a glitch in the processing overload, but there are too many to list. DLP natively has better motion than LCOS and LCD, so these people seeing the horizontal panning issue were really being picky. I cannot imagine how bad older LCD's must bother them if they think the panning issue is a big deal (I still don't really even see it).

Now there is a tiny bit of judder in 24p content for the 3:2 pulldown, because this projector is only 60hz, but it is not severe. The Benq w1200 would be the next step up for 120hz, but then it has its own set of issues, gaming lag and it is more expensive. Do not worry, this projector is the bargain of the century.

I paid $2000 5 years ago for a projector that doesn't look half this good.


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post #375 of 1089 Old 01-04-2012, 06:50 AM
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Viewsonic is still offering a free Elite screen (+ shipping). Unfortunately for me the 80" is too small and the 100" is too big for my room. They wouldn't offer me the 92" as part of their promotion - which would fit perfectly.

Since I'm in a dark room (basement), and this projector is really bright would it make more sense to get a high contrast grey screen like this one?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Draper-High-...item23183d09b2
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post #376 of 1089 Old 01-04-2012, 07:43 AM
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Either an ND filter or gray screen will work, although personally I'd probably go with the ND filter to get the most hours out of the lamp. Gray screens are more for non-bat caves. The ND filter can be removed once the lamp loses lumens, but with the gray screen you'll be stuck with negative gain. If you do get a gray screen, make sure not to get one with positive gain, at this screen size if you add gain, you'll really be WAY too bright.


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Web Calculator v023 & v025
- Quick Peak at the new upcoming calculator
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post #377 of 1089 Old 01-04-2012, 07:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

Either an ND filter or gray screen will work, although personally I'd probably go with the ND filter to get the most hours out of the lamp. Gray screens are more for non-bat caves. The ND filter can be removed once the lamp loses lumens, but with the gray screen you'll be stuck with negative gain. If you do get a gray screen, make sure not to get one with positive gain, at this screen size if you add gain, you'll really be WAY too bright.

I don't even know where to start with an ND filter, any tips?
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post #378 of 1089 Old 01-04-2012, 08:14 AM
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Someone posted tips a couple pages back, other than that, you can call B&H Audio/Video and get help, or walk into any high-end camera store. If you go to a camera store, call them first and make sure someone is there that can help you, tell them the projector is small and ask if you can bring it in to get help with measurements and a fitted ND filter.

Before you go, you might want to ask them prices on their ND filters, as camera stores can be expensive, so if you bring the projector in you might feel obligated to buy it there.

I am sure they can help you though, if you talk to the right guy. If anyone does this, please post back on what the camera store said is the best way to fit it on the lens (I don't like some of the previous ideas too much).

If no-one does this, I will try to visit a camera store myself in a week or two. Right now too busy to mess with it.


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Web Calculator v023 & v025
- Quick Peak at the new upcoming calculator
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post #379 of 1089 Old 01-04-2012, 10:50 AM
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I am surprised that after all these months, people haven't given info on screen protector clear lens or ND filter size/type. I would think it would both save the original lens from dust and also not having to worry if it's in the back of the room to have to put on and take off the lens cap all the time. The other reason for light control with the right filter.
I'm a newbie to this PJ field and I know a number of us just bought them last week, so you guys that have had it longer, supply us with tips on it if you don't mind. Part of the problem for us newbies is we don't know what would work on projectors , and I hate to go to store 3 or 4 times and buying stuff I know nothing about.
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post #380 of 1089 Old 01-04-2012, 11:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diablo900t View Post

I don't even know where to start with an ND filter, any tips?

I was looking at the Epson 705HD a few months ago, and they had a really good discussion on ND filters.

Not sure the exact page of the external links to blogs about ND filters, but start here in the 705HD thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1182562&page=4

BTW, the filter DOES not have to be one that is housed in a ring. I think one of the links showed 3" square panels that could be affixed in front of the lens.

I have an ND4 from ~6 years ago for my SP5000. Wish I had known about the filters instead ... maybe it would've been cheaper.
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post #381 of 1089 Old 01-06-2012, 11:32 AM
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How to increase black levels

Several folks have asked what Neutral Density filter they should buy to increase the black level of the pro8200. That question can’t be answered because it depends…

This has been my experience with projectors so far. I’m sure more knowledgeable people will chime in.

I’ve watched one movie so far, and it had no dark scenes, but the projector OOTB seems to blow out the highlights. I noticed the same thing watching HDTV. It’s just too bright!

But first, if you have any ambient light in the room and if your walls and ceiling are light colored, forget about inky black levels. Couple this with the light leakage from the projector and you fighting a losing battle. First you have to control the light bouncing around the room. I don’t think enough exclamation points can be added to that.

Paint the walls a dark neutral gray. Any color on the walls will affect the color balance of the projector. This can be used to your advantage if the projector has a problem with a particular color. Since the whites tend toward red, you might go with a blue-gray color for the walls, which would tone down the red without needing to raise the color temperature.

Since a ND filter is doing nothing but cutting the amount of light evenly across the color spectrum, how dark a filter you might need depends on the screen size, the throw distance and how dark your room is.

The standard for movie viewing is 13 foot-lamberts, but you’ll read on this forum folks that run as little as 4 foot-lamberts in their home theater.

So if your goal is 10-13 fl for movie watching, the amount of lumens the projector needs to produce is a function of the square feet of your screen. The formula is FL X Area(screen sf) = Lumens, or Lumens / Area = Foot Lamberts.

Projector Reviews measured this projector at about 850 lumens in Dark Room mode, which pretty much is in line with the fl calculations of the projector calculator on the projectorcental website.

Here’s some calculations from the screen calculator there using the midpoint of the throw distance assuming a gain of 1:
100” screen(29 sf) @ 12’4”= 29 fl, which calculates to 841 lumens.
120” screen(44 sf) @ 14’9”= 20 fl, which calculates to 880 lumens
135” screen(54 sf) @ 16’7”= 16 fl, which calculates to 864 lumens

Some variations, and slightly above the measured lumens in Dark Room mode, but certainly in the ball park.

Here’s at the far end of the throw distance:
100” screen(29 sf) @ 15’6”= 25 fl, which calculates to 725 lumens.
120” screen(44 sf) @ 18’8”= 17 fl, which calculates to 748 lumens
135” screen(54 sf) @ 21’= 14 fl, which calculates to 756 lumens

As you can see, you can tame the light somewhat by moving the projector back, but that makes it even more important that the walls are dark to minimize reflected light.

I would suggest you have all your guests wear dark clothing when watching a movie. LOL

Now, assuming you’ve completely controlled the light in the room and the projector is at the mid-point throw distance, you want to shoot for 10 fl for movie watching.
With a 100” screen you would want a 1.5 stop ND filter. (Actually a little less)
With a 120” screen you would want a 1 stop ND filter.
With a 135” screen you would want a .5 stop ND filter. (Actually a little more)

Here’s the ND filter I ordered. It’s a sheet of polyester gel rated at .5 stop. I’ll probably cut it to fit the snout on the projector and tape it on. You can just stack the filter to get the 1 and 1.5 stop. Then you can move the projector and change the throw distance to fine tune the fl. Once you’ve decided you like the results, you can replace it with a glass filter if you want. I used a CC40 poly filter on my Hitachi without any noticeable degradation for several years.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...l_Density.html

But with all this talk of black levels, shadow detail, to me, is more important. There is nothing more frustrating with a dark scene that is nice and black, so black that I can’t make out what is happening. And according to the review, the projector does this well, at the expense of overall black levels:

“All considered, the Pro8200 reveals more of the dark shadow detail than just about any other projector we've recently worked with. Most impressive. In reality it was essentially identical to the HC3800, but our photo of the Pro8200 is a little darker.” – Art Fein

Hope this helps.

http://htrgroup.com/main.php?section=brightness
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post #382 of 1089 Old 01-06-2012, 12:48 PM
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The above is good info in general, but just to clarify a few points...

14 fL is the SMTPE recommended brightness for a digital projector in a completely light controlled room, but 16-20 fL should be the starting target for heavy users as the lamp will dim. For very light users, 12-16 fL is ok for a starting target.

10fL is too dim to shoot for, lamps dim over time and the source content is not mastered to be shown below these levels.
10 fL is more like the absolute minimum, although some might not mind 7 to 8fl either, but that's too DIM if you consider any loss in lumens over time, and for most peoples preferences.

Shadow detail is a misunderstood concept by some. Shadow detail is actually a function of contrast and gamma settings, a projector with the same contrast has the same shadow detail as the next projector. Since this projector isn't an ultra-high contrast projector, others will exceed it in shadow detail given calibrations are equalized. The best shadow detail are JVC and Sony projectors because of their high native contrast. Seeing muddier blacks which can make certain details more apparent at times is not an increase in shadow detail, but it's simply showing muddier blocks that are actually a loss of detail from the black level floor being too high. Real shadow detail is nothing more than contrast and gamma settings, if judging it by the original source material.


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Web Calculator v023 & v025
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post #383 of 1089 Old 01-06-2012, 01:19 PM
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I remember it as 13 fl, but it may have been 14 fl.

Since the goal of the ND filter is to increase apparent black levels, reducing lumens to the minimum level achieving an acceptable picture will do the most to increase this effect, since this will also have the effect of reducing stray light.

That's why I suggested the poly filter-- at $10, it's a way for users to play with the output and decide for themselves what's an acceptable level of light. Being a 20x24" sheet, you can make a bunch of 3" round filters.

Yes the bulb dims, so I would suggest starting with ECO and Dark Room settings. Over time those can be changed to Standard... or remove the ND filter, or change the density of the filter, if you stack the filters.

The examples I was using was to reinforce the idea that how dark a ND filter to use depends on a lot of factors.

Over time with the Hitachi I went from closing the iris to the minimum opening to gradually increasing it. We don't have that flexibility, but we do have a lot of lumens to play with. I think the Hitachi was about 900 lumens maximum the iris fully open when it was calibrated.

"Here is a primer on what happens with 3D projection:

The figure of 16 foot-lamberts is the standard established by the Society of Motion Picture and Television Engineers for a projector with no film in it. If you add a 2D film to a projector that meets the brightness standard, you’ll generally wind up with about 14 foot-lamberts, considered an appropriate level of illumination.

3D projection, though, displays two separate pictures, one designed for the left eye, one for the right. Some systems – for instance, projectors made by Texas Instruments – display the two pictures sequentially, in rapid succession; other systems, such as Sony’s, display the pictures simultaneously. Both systems then use glasses to merge the two images into one three-dimensional image.

But whichever system is used, the immediate result of dividing the picture into two images is that, in Lipton’s words, “You lose half your light, because half the light goes to one eye and half goes to the other.” Instantly, a 14-foot-lambert image is reduced to seven.

The glasses used to decode the two images, whether they use RealD’s polarization method, Dolby’s spectral division system or any of the other systems on the market, then cut the light further.

“Avatar,” says Lipton, generally screened at about four-and-a-half foot-lamberts; other films are as low as two or three."


http://www.thewrap.com/movies/column...19392?page=0,1
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post #384 of 1089 Old 01-06-2012, 02:35 PM
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10 fL will become 8 fL in 100-200 hours, that's why 10 fL is too low. 14 fL is the SMTPE recommended. Dark room is pretty inaccurate on the gamma, but I will measure it. The average lumen loss in 3D is actually 70% or so, it's drastic, a few projectors/glasses combos are less, but some are even more.

I am getting my certified meter hopefully in 2 weeks to finally take some pro measurements on this thing with a Spectracal c6 setup.

Thanks.


Quick and Easy Shelf Mount Method for both one projector or dual stacks

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post #385 of 1089 Old 01-07-2012, 12:32 PM
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A quick question:

I have been going to friends home and setting it up and playing games and watching movies at his home, then turning it off, putting it in bag in 30 seconds and taking it to car. Is that ok? My friend mentioned something about cooling off period? But I told him I didn't know if I was to let the bulb cool down. I know this pro8200 has quick off feature, what do you guys suggest for travel setups outside of your home.
Thanks
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post #386 of 1089 Old 01-07-2012, 01:16 PM
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Everyone should immediately turn the QUICK POWER ON and QUICK POWER OFF settings in the menu to OFF.
You do not want the projector turning off without the fan running, it will shorten the lamp life. On mine the default was that quick power on and off are enabled, but that should be disabled so the fan runs to cool the lamp after the projector is shut off.

@rgtaa
Each power cycle probably takes 2-4 hours from the lamp life, but it's not a huge deal to do that. The lamps on this thing are pretty cheap. I suppose none of us know how long the lamps will last (they vary on every projector unit and lamp), but so far at 500 hours I haven't had any lamp issues (that one weird glitch, but I don't think that was lamp related).


Quick and Easy Shelf Mount Method for both one projector or dual stacks

Web Calculator v023 & v025
- Quick Peak at the new upcoming calculator
**Current Projector Calculator** -- http://www.eliteprojectorcalculator.com

Coder's Top Projector Picks of 2012 --http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread....

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post #387 of 1089 Old 01-07-2012, 01:48 PM
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From what little I know so far about projectors, I agree with coderguy. The first thing I did was turn the quick on and quick off "off." This goes for anyone, whether it's portable or permanently mounted.
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post #388 of 1089 Old 01-07-2012, 02:37 PM
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Thanks guys for answering my question so fast. Very much appreciated.
Now, how long do I have to wait, usually, after I turn it off, is it 5 mins or 20 mins. I want to develop good travel practice. Also, does weather conditions factor into it, cold outside temp or hot outside temp , in car. What is SAFE practice?
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post #389 of 1089 Old 01-07-2012, 02:38 PM
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It's only about 2 minutes if I recall.
Just wait until you no longer hear the fan running.

Weather doesn't matter, just keep it in the carrying case and get it in the warm car. Don't turn the projector on right away if it came from sub-freezing temps, let it warm up closer to room temp before turning it on (usually this means a 30 min. wait).


Quick and Easy Shelf Mount Method for both one projector or dual stacks

Web Calculator v023 & v025
- Quick Peak at the new upcoming calculator
**Current Projector Calculator** -- http://www.eliteprojectorcalculator.com

Coder's Top Projector Picks of 2012 --http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread....

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post #390 of 1089 Old 01-08-2012, 08:56 PM
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Ok, I've got a really, really dumb question. This weekend was the first time I was actually able to watch a couple movies on my projector. I know some DVD and Blu-Rays are in 16:9 (1.78:1) aspect ratio, and some are 2.35-2.40ish ratio. The 16:9''s worked great, but I got black bars with the 2.35's. Is there a way to make the 2.35-2.40's display "full screen" with no black bars on the top and bottom? I can set the projector to, I think it was, anamorphic 2, and fill the screen, but it looked really out of proportion.
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