Viewsonic Pro8200 -- it exists. - Page 16 - AVS Forum
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post #451 of 1089 Old 01-25-2012, 03:27 PM
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Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

It's called a loss in shadow detail and is muddy blacks, where the detail in dark scenes looks blended together and muddy. It is also referred to as black crush sometimes. You need to raise the brightness settings and adjust the gamma on the projector, that should help with your black crush.
The brightness control is actually the BLACK LEVEL, the contrast control is the white level. The gamma also affects it between those points though.

This projector's strength is not black levels, you would have to buy a Mits hc4000 for that or an Acer 9500bd, or an Epson 8700ub, or for the nirvana of black levels a JVC projector. Still even with the JVC, the black levels are still pretty far away from PLASMA-like black levels. A projector can only make the black so black.

A gray screen actually cannot help in a bat-cave other than reducing BRIGHTNESS, it only helps in non-bat-caves, but there are also downsides to gray screens sometimes, just depends. I probably recommend an ND filter instead of a gray screen to reduce brightness if the image is too bright unless you are in a room with white walls or ambient light, then a gray screen is the way to go. The problem with using a gray screen to get better blacks in a darkened room, is after the lamp on the projector ages, you'll be stuck with a darker image. An ND filter can be removed after the lamp ages, but you can't remove the screen (well I suppose you could, but you get my point).

thanks coderguy..I'll mess around with the brightness/gamma settings to try and get the image watchable..I don't mind "grays" instead of blacks as long as I can see the details in there .
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post #452 of 1089 Old 01-25-2012, 04:29 PM
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Would it be a good deal to grab this from newegg with 10% off and no tax...I think it comes to 719...

Or should I wait for a bigger sale?
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post #453 of 1089 Old 01-25-2012, 06:27 PM
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Originally Posted by oresteez View Post

Would it be a good deal to grab this from newegg with 10% off and no tax...I think it comes to 719...

Or should I wait for a bigger sale?

My opinion of this projector-- if it's going to be used for family entertainment, movies and games in the living or family room where you don't have particularly good light control, this projector will work great.

If you have a dedicated, light controlled home theater, I would probably look at the HD20 for $120 more-- though I have never seen the picture, I believe it is better suited for a home theater environment. It has a better calibration system at the expense of brightness.

I don't know-- $720 for a 1080p projector? If another deal for the HC4000 came along at, say $1000, then I'd say, what's your budget?

I'm sitting here watching Master and Commander-- which has some dark scenes and I don't see anything wrong with the black levels, but then I previously had a 720p LCD, which was a great projector-- but the black levels of the previous generation weren't that great. And the CC40R filter is doing a pretty good job. I'll post more on this when I get the new projector.

Will it be on sale cheaper in the future? Probably. I guess it depends if you want to buy a projector now.

I suspect that any of these lower priced 1080p projectors throw a pretty good looking picture though and a person would be impressed with any of them, compared to the previous generation.
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post #454 of 1089 Old 01-25-2012, 06:35 PM
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My color on mine after 500 hours looks better than my JVC's color. I'm not just saying that either, I'm totally serious. The JVC needs calibrated worse than my Viewsonic now, the JVC drifts a lot though. My JVC is still cleaner in dark scenes, but in bright scenes the Viewsonic's color looks a bit better now. My JVC sometimes has a yellow push, my Viewsonic never does with my current settings. At first the red tint was strong, not anymore though.

You have to be patient with the lamp, the red will fade. It fades drastically after 500 hours into oblivion.

You have the gamma issue so this is probably making you a bit more picky, your gamma is dropping all the way to 1.x quickly, none of the reviewers measured GAMMA anything like that, so we have to assume it's something with your unit. Could three different reviewers have all measured gamma's near flat at 1.8 to 2.4 and everyone else has a bad unit, I doubt it, but anything is possible.

I know this is a dumb question, but did you make sure DRN was off and do the factory reset?
Did you try to calibrate gray scale?

On some projectors, when you calibrate gray scale, the gamma falls into place pretty close automatically.

I really don't have any color issues on mine anymore. The hd20 is not an improvement over this projector, the contrast is actually slightly worse and it is not quite as sharp. The calibration controls do work better, but I don't feel a giant need to calibrate anymore like I did before. I do still need to calibrate, but just not as much as before. The hd20 at best is just some trade-offs for other trade-offs and is about an equal match. For an improvement, you need to step up to the Mits hc4000 or the Benq w1200.


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post #455 of 1089 Old 01-25-2012, 06:50 PM
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You know, it would have been nice to go to showroom and see these projectors in person before buying. But the stores around me don't have them set up. I went to BB,sears, walmart, and other places and nobody has these available to check out. I guess they are not that popular, right? Some places may sell them, but they don't have them set up so you can see how they look, side by side, like the HDTV's.

I did go to sears yesterday and saw the different hdtv's they had there. I remember a few years ago, thinking 42 inch HDTV's were really big. Now after having the pro8200 a few weeks, I'm looking at 72 inch screens in sears and thinking, that is tiny. Weird how your perspective changes in a few years.
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post #456 of 1089 Old 01-25-2012, 07:00 PM
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I've seen most of them from this year, all but a handful now.

You have to find private dealers and theater showrooms, most big cities have one or two. Magnolia stores sometimes have them on display, Fry's has a few occasionally.

Local cinemas have commercial level DLP's and LCOS, at the very least this can give you an idea of what commercial LCOS and DLP projectors look like, commercial theaters often have both types of projectors (sometimes they have both in the same theater). Theaters never use LCD tech, only LCOS or DLP. Some of these theaters don't maintain or calibrate their projectors right, but there are some decent ones.

You can also post in AVS and try to see if anyone in your city is near you with a projector that you can see. Sometimes there are small home theater conventions (or big ones) going through a town. You can also catch a few Benq's at some sport's bars, although the setup will be so bad it won't help in your choice. Finally, if a place has a no-restock policy, you can order one and then return it.


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post #457 of 1089 Old 01-25-2012, 09:24 PM
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I watched a couple of movies on it tonight after not using the pro8200 for 3 or 4 days and it looked awesome.
I'm with coderguy as to how good this projector is, to the average person, this produces a very bright and colorful picture. It watched in dark room 2 800 meg avi movies in about 90 inch screen. Once you get into the movie, it is like going out to the movie theater. 650 bought me something I thought I would have to pay 2,000 dollars for. If you know what I mean. I couldn't pick up a 90 inch hdtv for 650.
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post #458 of 1089 Old 01-25-2012, 10:20 PM
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Don't get me wrong, it throws an incredibly bright, colorful image. Some of the HDTV stations are stunning.

And as far as calibration, you can get a pretty even grayscale temp, even though you don't have both an offset and bias adjustment. And it would be nice to have something like continuous gamma adjustment.

I pulled out the OPPO, which has the ability to pre-process brightness/contrast and yes, I can straighten out the gamma and bring the upper white range down. But both the Toshiba HD-DVD (which now is mostly just an upconverting SD dvd player since Toshiba and Microsoft lost the HD war) and Panasonic bluray don't have that ability. Let's hope I don't have to invest in a new dvd player or an video processor. I did recently move a computer that could serve as a HTPC (ati 5850, phenom processor) to the theater room, but I'd still have to buy a bluray burner for it. That may be the best solution, if it turns out it's my setup and not the projector.

I still haven't heard back from Viewsonic.

I bought this because I didn't want to spend $1200-$1500 on a projector. I'm certainly getting my money's worth. I probably would have bought the 8350 when Amazon had it for $900 for a few hours just before Christmas.
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post #459 of 1089 Old 01-25-2012, 10:42 PM
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The Mits hc4000 is quite a bit better image than the 8350, I've done side-by-sides. The 8350 has darker blacks than the Viewsonic, but it isn't as film-like due to the pixel fill. The 8350 is pretty good, in some ways it's better than the Viewsonic, but overall I'd still take the Viewsonic believe it or not. A friend compared the 8350 and Mits hc4000 with me many years ago (guess it was about 2 years ago), he returned the Epson and kept the Mits hc4000, we both agreed the Mits was better. He now has the Epson 5010 and the Mits hc4000, it's a really nice combo BTW, he uses the Mits for TV and the Epson 5010 for everything else.

The advantages of the 8350 over the Viewsonic is darker blacks and slightly cleaner processing, but the Mits hc4000 is even cleaner than the 8350 and more film-like at the same time.

The Viewsonic is VERY source dependent, you need a nice clean bluray transfer to get the best out of it. The Mits hc4000 on the other hand can handle anything you throw at it, and it also has the most POP of any projector I've seen under $2000, even more than the 8700ub, but it doesn't have the dark scene POP as much as in bright scenes. I would say the Mitsubishi hc4000 probably still beats my JVC in some bright scenes. I've owned most of these projectors btw, I owned the Epson 8500ub (which is even better than the Epson 8350), and I've also owned the Mits hc3800 and Mits hc4000. I've also owned tons of others.

Anyhow, for what you want, you may decide to save up a bit, sell the Viewsonic, and then go for the Mits. I don't think you'd be completely happy with the 8350 coming from the Viewsonic to be honest, but who knows for sure, I could be wrong.


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post #460 of 1089 Old 01-26-2012, 05:13 AM
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Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

The sound you hear is the color wheel, it could just be the bearings are purposefully gummed up a bit before shipping to protect the color wheel and it loosens up on first power up. Could just be normal when it first starts spinning.

The flickering sounds odd, could be the lamp, try running the lamp in NON-ECO / HIGH power mode for about an hour or two and see if it stops the flickering.

I might call Viewsonic and just tell them and see what they say about an RMA, although if you ordered it from a vendor recently, you can probably get the Vendor just to do the swap for you.

Flickering could be something else entirely unrelated to the lamp as well, but I don't have any flickering on my unit.

Thanks coderguy and rgtaa. It seems the issues resolved themselves - so far...

The whirring sound has stopped or at least isn't loud enough to be noticeable when viewing - maybe it was just some part breaking in.

The flicker also disappeared, but in a strange way. I changed the HDMI cable and used the other HDMI input, and it was still there when viewing my Blu-ray player output. I then went through various menu options and along the way I activated PIP and POP. I noticed that the flicker wasn't present in those modes (which seem to lower the resolution) - nor was it present when viewing test patterns. I then went back to HDMI full screen 1080p (Blu-ray source) expecting the flicker to return, but it was gone. I don't know if it was also somehow a break-in thing, or if cycling through PIP/POP somehow eliminated it. I'll check again later today when I turn it on again to see if it's back.

So I'm happy the issues are gone, but feeling a bit uneasy that I don't really understand what caused them and they could return.
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post #461 of 1089 Old 01-26-2012, 06:43 AM
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Thanks coderguy and rgtaa. It seems the issues resolved themselves - so far...

The whirring sound has stopped or at least isn't loud enough to be noticeable when viewing - maybe it was just some part breaking in.

The flicker also disappeared, but in a strange way. I changed the HDMI cable and used the other HDMI input, and it was still there when viewing my Blu-ray player output. I then went through various menu options and along the way I activated PIP and POP. I noticed that the flicker wasn't present in those modes (which seem to lower the resolution) - nor was it present when viewing test patterns. I then went back to HDMI full screen 1080p (Blu-ray source) expecting the flicker to return, but it was gone. I don't know if it was also somehow a break-in thing, or if cycling through PIP/POP somehow eliminated it. I'll check again later today when I turn it on again to see if it's back.

So I'm happy the issues are gone, but feeling a bit uneasy that I don't really understand what caused them and they could return.

The weird sound shouldn't come back. I don't hear it at all. For the flicker, it could be the hdmi cable wasn't in all the way first time you used it on either device. Maybe try different movie. Or do research on your blue-ray player online for flicker problem. It could be your blue-ray device has the flicker problem that others have been talking about in forum rooms.

That is why try pc/laptop, xbox 360 or ps3 as different source, to trouble-shoot if the problem is with your blue-ray player or disk. You shouldn't get flicker at all from pro8200. Also, turn off your blue-ray player for a minute or so and then restart it. It could be that you had blue-ray player on first before pro8200. Blue ray could be set up to different hdtv, so check options on your blue ray player.

Yeah, the "feeling I had when I firsted started up the pro8200, it was a loud whirrling sound that lasted maybe 30 seconds, I was thinking, what's going on,is this thing broken. Then sound stopped and never heard it again. I came on boards and googled it and others had same problem on first start up.
I got freaked out, like you. But it's now 2-3 weeks later and have never had that problem ever again.
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post #462 of 1089 Old 01-26-2012, 08:04 AM
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Looking at this as a second projector, pro8200 or the Benq W1100 (a bit cheaper), which one throws a better picture in a all white living room environment? Also I read that the pro8200 can do CIH without an outboard lens is that true?
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post #463 of 1089 Old 01-26-2012, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Digity8 View Post

Looking at this as a second projector, pro8200 or the Benq W1100 (a bit cheaper), which one throws a better picture in a all white living room environment? Also I read that the pro8200 can do CIH without an outboard lens is that true?

The beng w1100 is around 1,000-1,100 dollars, the pro8200 many of us picked up 2-3 weeks ago for 650 , but usually sells for around 720-799 average.
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post #464 of 1089 Old 01-26-2012, 10:50 AM
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There is a sale for the w1100 for 750 right now vs 799 for the pro8200 just wondering if Its worth the difference
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post #465 of 1089 Old 01-26-2012, 11:03 AM
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There is a sale for the w1100 for 750 right now vs 799 for the pro8200 just wondering if Its worth the difference

Oh, I didn't realize that. In that case, I now see why you are comparing the 2. Coderguy to the rescue. He'll give you the answers you are looking for. Good price on the w1100.
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post #466 of 1089 Old 01-26-2012, 11:23 AM
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There is a sale for the w1100 for 750 right now vs 799 for the pro8200 just wondering if Its worth the difference

That sounds like a great deal. I don't think they want pricing in this forum, but why don't you put the particulars of the deal on the Great Deals Found Thread.
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post #467 of 1089 Old 01-26-2012, 11:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Digity8 View Post

Looking at this as a second projector, pro8200 or the Benq W1100 (a bit cheaper), which one throws a better picture in a all white living room environment? Also I read that the pro8200 can do CIH without an outboard lens is that true?

From the projector central review:

"While contrast on the W1100 is higher than the Pro8200, it does not match the other projectors in its price class. The BenQ W1200, Epson 8350, and Mitsubishi HC4000 all beat the W1100 in black level and contrast. However, this is not a downside when the projector is used for its intended purpose--gaming and entertainment in ambient light. In this situation, the contrast and black level advantages of the other units are neutralized. The real limitation of the W1100 is the default color calibration, which emphasizes green and blue and needs significant grayscale and gamut adjustment to get it optimized. This is unfortunate because of the W1100 is capable of great color accuracy once calibrated. If it were better calibrated at the factory the W1100 would be a much greater value to the consumer who does not want to mess with meters or custom calibrations on a gaming machine."

While the pro8200 doesn't have the calibration controls of other projectors, it's not that difficult to get a pretty good image out of it.

The pro8200 optomized bright output is 1475 lumens, versus 1098 for the BenQ. Once you get in a living room environment, you can forget black levels anyway, so depending on the amount of ambient light in the room, I would suggest the light output would trump everything else.
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post #468 of 1089 Old 01-26-2012, 12:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Digity8 View Post

Looking at this as a second projector, pro8200 or the Benq W1100 (a bit cheaper), which one throws a better picture in a all white living room environment? Also I read that the pro8200 can do CIH without an outboard lens is that true?

You didn't say what size image you want to project, but assuming a normal living room where you can draw the blinds, but will still have light in the room, you probably want between 25-30 fl to give the picture some pop.

The w1100 will do that with a 100" screen, but you're pushing it with a 120" screen (25fl). What happens as the bulb fades over time?

As to the CIH, the pro8200 does have an aspect setting for 2.35:1, but I don't know if that setting is designed for use with an outboard lens. I haven't had the projector long enough to play with all the buttons.
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post #469 of 1089 Old 01-26-2012, 12:43 PM
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From the projector central review:

"While contrast on the W1100 is higher than the Pro8200, it does not match the other projectors in its price class. The BenQ W1200, Epson 8350, and Mitsubishi HC4000 all beat the W1100 in black level and contrast. "

This is emphasizing just one attribute as reviews often do, they focus on contrast. None of these projectors are great at dark scenes, the Mits hc4000 is the best out of all of them in this list (people say the 8350 but not really, 8350 only wins in pure blackouts vs. the hc4000). For better blacks, the Benq w6000 is the next step up for a DLP over a Mits hc4000, than the Acer 9500bd.

IMO, 3000:1 Native On/Off vs. 1800:1 On/Off is a decent difference, but the problem is 3000:1 On/Off still isn't really high enough to get good enough black levels to really make this the deciding factor. It is one factor for sure, give me 5000:1 On/Off and an IRIS, and then it becomes a much bigger factor.

In reality, there are trade-offs with all these projectors.

So let's go over this one more time for the lurkers:

1) Benq w1100/w1200 has issues with gaming lag, especially w1200 don't remember the w1100's exact timing. The w1200 was tested around 120ms lag.

2) Benq's and Mits DLP has far more RBE for rainbow sensitive people. This is something the reviewers cannot always tell because the Viewsonic on a new lamp is so bright the reviewers had no way to equalize the brightness correctly. This is one of the main reasons I bought the Viewsonic. It is the ONLY sub-$1500 DLP I can take so far due to low RBE. This is a BIG advantage, because I doubt many will be bothered by the Viewsonic's RBE unless they watch it way too bright.

3) Benq's OOTB calibration is rough for newbs that don't have calibration meters or aren't paying for a calibration. The Benq's do calibrate better than the Viewsonic, but OOTB is rough.

4) The Mits hc4000 and Epson 8350 do have the best OOTB calibrations, but they are not NEARLY as bright as the Viewsonic in best mode. The Viewsonic is 3x brighter in BEST MODE. The Viewsonic's OOTB calibration looks good after some lamp wear, not as good as these, but fairly close.

5) The 8350 is not as sharp as the Viewsonic unless you get really good convergence. The Mits and Benq DLP's are slightly sharper than the Viewsonic, but not hugely so.

In bright scenes, the Viewsonic Pro8200 is very close to the other DLP's, the Mits hc4000 and Benq w1200 still look a tad better, just a bit. The Pro8200 isn't really in the same price class as these IMO, they are $200 to $400 more depending on when you buy it. Normally I'd say $200 to $400 difference is not much, but it is when you're only paying $600 to $750 for a projector

The Viewsonic often sells for $600 to $700, I've never seen a Mits hc4000 sell much below $1000, and usually they cost $1100, same with the Benq w1200.

IMO, this price class only consists of the Optoma hd20 and MAYBE the Benq w1100/w1200 or Epson 8350 during a sale. When I bought the Viewsonic, the Benq's were still hovering around $1100 to $1300, it's only recently that dropped the price a lot.


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post #470 of 1089 Old 01-26-2012, 12:48 PM
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There is a sale for the w1100 for 750 right now vs 799 for the pro8200 just wondering if Its worth the difference

what site is it on sale?
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post #471 of 1089 Old 01-26-2012, 02:03 PM
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what site is it on sale?


Coderguy, you are right, 200-400 dollar added over the 650 dollar pro8200 is a big difference. So I think the 1100 dollar units are in next price range above the pro8200's 650 range. And the pro8200 holds it's own against the 1100 dollar units. It's one of the only hybrid units in this range that can do both business and home theater viewing with built in speakers and mic and carrying case and good weight. Some of the others are home theater only. Pro8200 is good gaming/TV/sports/movie/business/school projector. So the pro8200 is very versatile. Put it in car with epson 80 inch dual screen and you got easy to carry portable system for around 750 (650 plus 70 for my used epson screen).
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post #472 of 1089 Old 01-26-2012, 02:22 PM
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i held off on ordering last night...could have gotten from newegg for 720 but i decided to wait, since i dont have an absolute short term need for it, ...maybe i'll score it for somewhere in the 600's soon..lol
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post #473 of 1089 Old 01-26-2012, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by oresteez View Post

i held off on ordering last night...could have gotten from newegg for 720 but i decided to wait, since i dont have an absolute short term need for it, ...maybe i'll score it for somewhere in the 600's soon..lol

Yeah, don't worry about it, I'm sure it will go on sale again for that price or lower in the next month or so. Also, this gives you chance to have fun researching other units too, since next years models should be coming out in next few months I would think, and clearance sales coming.
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post #474 of 1089 Old 01-26-2012, 07:07 PM
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I'm apparently stupid. But I can't seem to change the individual colors. According to the manual if I change the setting to user I should be able to calabrate individual colors, but they are always greyed out. Am I missing something?
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post #475 of 1089 Old 01-26-2012, 08:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redbouche View Post

I'm apparently stupid. But I can't seem to change the individual colors. According to the manual if I change the setting to user I should be able to calabrate individual colors, but they are always greyed out. Am I missing something?

Under color settings, change from mid to user, then you will be able to adjust the individual colors.

I think something like 60R, 50G, 40B will get you in the ball park.
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post #476 of 1089 Old 01-26-2012, 08:36 PM
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Whoops I didn't read your post very carefully, since you said you've already set it to user, in the color setting section. This section is for adjusting the color temperature of white, as you are aware.

User should allow the individual colors to be adjusted.
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post #477 of 1089 Old 01-27-2012, 04:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redbouche View Post

I'm apparently stupid. But I can't seem to change the individual colors. According to the manual if I change the setting to user I should be able to calabrate individual colors, but they are always greyed out. Am I missing something?

Picture tab
Color mode: user 1


User color: Then first line Color ..... then move left or right to change from green to blue to cyan etc and then you can adjust hue,saturation gain of each color.
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post #478 of 1089 Old 01-27-2012, 09:58 AM
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so I did a search for calibration discs on the site and what would you recommend for my projector as the best downloadable/burnable test disc to tweak the 8200 with?

Since I'm liking the idea of keeping it to a "modest" 120" I'm thinking of moving the entire setup into the front "formal living room" which could also double as a theater room and office depending on the situation. I could then paint the room a darker color and have better light control since it's not in the center of the house like the family room/den...whatever it's called.

Then I'd just have the TV/stand in the family room for daily use and keep the projector and all the other AV equipment in the other room....
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post #479 of 1089 Old 01-27-2012, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by dlvonde View Post

so I did a search for calibration discs on the site and what would you recommend for my projector as the best downloadable/burnable test disc to tweak the 8200 with?

Since I'm liking the idea of keeping it to a "modest" 120" I'm thinking of moving the entire setup into the front "formal living room" which could also double as a theater room and office depending on the situation. I could then paint the room a darker color and have better light control since it's not in the center of the house like the family room/den...whatever it's called.

Then I'd just have the TV/stand in the family room for daily use and keep the projector and all the other AV equipment in the other room....

Maybe you can start with this link.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...ghlight=mp4+2c

I downloaded the mp4 version, about 21 megs. And can use a PC hooked up to pro8200 to do calibrating. I looked over the folders and tried a few of them. When you unzip it the folder grows to over 1.5 gigs. So lots of stuff to test for. I'll let coderguy point you to his favorite way to calibrate it.
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post #480 of 1089 Old 01-27-2012, 11:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dlvonde View Post

so I did a search for calibration discs on the site and what would you recommend for my projector as the best downloadable/burnable test disc to tweak the 8200 with?

Since I'm liking the idea of keeping it to a "modest" 120" I'm thinking of moving the entire setup into the front "formal living room" which could also double as a theater room and office depending on the situation. I could then paint the room a darker color and have better light control since it's not in the center of the house like the family room/den...whatever it's called.

Then I'd just have the TV/stand in the family room for daily use and keep the projector and all the other AV equipment in the other room....

That's the way it started for all of us-- innocently set up in the living room for "occasional movie night" and before you know it, you're kicking the kids out of their playroom, gluing black felt to the walls and ceiling, issuing black smocks to all who enter your batcave.

It's never dark enough.

While the avs 709 disk has some great screens and it is as good as it gets for setting brightness and contrast, it won't help too much in adjusting the colors. I would suggest either Spears and Munsil or Disney's WOW disks, since they have colored gel and screens designed to help eyeball the colors-- and they work pretty good.

I have the old DVE Essentials disk and it's not very easy to navigate, though I read the HD version improved the navigation.
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