CRE X1000 Worlds First 3 LED 3 LCD 1080p Projector..Anybody heard of these guys? - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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post #361 of 1272 Old 05-14-2011, 07:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sellmejunk View Post

I`m not sure about PC bluray drives but the picture quality of Battlestar Galactica has been bugging me.
These are normal pc captures and not from the x1000.
click here to see them

The universal logo from the pause feature plays from the disc looking crisp, but the series itself looks fuzzy.
Before i can play with the projector i need to determine if this is a pc issue.
From looking online it seems theres not much joy for quality bluray playback on a PC which is odd as a quad core should blow a regular bluray player out of the water.

I have an ATI HD 5750 , & tried powerdvd11 + total media theatre 5 which all gave same result.

Unless the picture was purposly meant to be fuzzy to add to the space themed atmosphere,

20 blurays but all from the same series,, i need another bluray title to test.

Can you rent Blu ray titles in your area? There are a few 1080p short films that are available for download, like underwater footage and different wildlife. Some were from Microsoft, but I don't have a link. Maybe try a search.

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post #362 of 1272 Old 05-14-2011, 07:35 PM
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ah yeh 1080p clips work fine. After looking on the net i found thats theres only a few bluray software players on the market that are licenced to play bluray discs.
I think there only 3

Total media Theatre 5
Powerdvd 11
& Corel Windvd 2010 (shows how upto date corel are lol)

I know nvidia uses Truevision & ati uses AMD codec (avivo) for bluray playback, it could be a case of these graphics cards. (tho i`ve already checked for the latest driver).

I`ve posted the fuzziness issue to a BSG forum, to see if someone can compare it.

Its a headscratcher.
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post #363 of 1272 Old 05-14-2011, 08:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sellmejunk View Post

I`m not sure about PC bluray drives but the picture quality of Battlestar Galactica has been bugging me.

BSG is probably not a good test case. It's very grainy/noisy and this is an intentional part of its art direction. Also I think they changed filming techniques somewhere along the way so the picture quality may vary between the early and later episodes. There's a bunch of screencaps from season 1 if you want to see what it's expected to look like (these are HD-DVD but the BD is pretty similar).

If you want to demo a clean and sharp picture, try something computer-animated.
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post #364 of 1272 Old 05-15-2011, 03:05 AM
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Thxs Dododge, those screen captures were really useful.
It had been driving me nuts especially on the big screen where its noticable.
I skipped to the very last disc of the series to see if its better quality & it is... only slightly ( tho still fuzzy)
Definitley animated is clear, as from the same BSG disc, theres a 1080p tutorial clip on how to use U- Control which was crystal clear.
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post #365 of 1272 Old 05-15-2011, 04:25 AM
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The Movie producers have been battling for years with computer companies. The last thing they want is their products to be anyway near a computer. They used to put copy protection malware and spy ware on CD's and DVD to keep them from being played in machines without being authorized. They also put code in many of them to keep them from being copied. Some were more difficult to work around than others.
As someone else already said BSG was a harsh, grainy and bleak type shoot in the first place. I noticed sort of a heavy blueish Grey hue in the clip I looked at. I would be interested in seeing the Cre with a sporting event like Football, Baseball or Basketball. and checking for PQ and brightness.
FYI,, My Main rig is a MyHD 130 card with a Sanyo xp10NA and it produces a stunning picture that is bright so it can be watched during the day with a lot of ambient light in the room, I know that I am not getting the greatest contrast ratio but that's the trade off, If I want I can go into the service menu and dial back the contrast settings but then I lose the brightness. I may be wrong but I think the way you will get the best quality Blue ray source is with a decent standalone Blue Ray Player through the HDMI port.


Bohanna

BTW Thanks for all your help and taking a chance with the Cre. I hope they have worked out the screen burn issue you dealt with although I think it had a lot to do with it's being mounted on top of the Sony
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post #366 of 1272 Old 05-15-2011, 10:28 AM
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Yes, Battlestar Galactica is not the best reference material. The best looking disc I've seen hands down is Avatar. One of the better looking older films I've seen is Live and Let Die. Actually the whole Bond series looks pretty great, but that one in particular I thought looked phenomenal.
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post #367 of 1272 Old 05-15-2011, 03:45 PM
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That sanyo sounds powerful, would love to see some 1080p basketball , sadly i dont subscribe to any services other than internet, (tho i have been thinking about Sky tv or cable) I saw blu ray disc for sale of 2010 NBA finals but its $70 bleh.
BBC was supposed to roll out HD Coverage in time for the 2010 world cup, but still today some areas cant get freeview HD.
When i bought a USB Dvb T-2 stick to watch HD thru my digital antenna , i was annoyed to discover that the Free HD channels (5 total) wont be in my area until September 2011.

Some Films on bluray, seem to ALL have a fuzzy grain intresting two page thread here about bluray fuzz

I`ll try & purchase bluray title this week perhaps indiana jones Crystal skull? Lucasfilm surely are skilled in HD?
Bond is great too, no problem with Roger Moore i`d be happy to see live & let die, as those 70`s films had some great technicolor.
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post #368 of 1272 Old 05-15-2011, 06:58 PM
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Ok found a guide based on HD picture quality, should prove helpful
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post #369 of 1272 Old 05-16-2011, 08:25 AM
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CRE X1000 had been on for 2 hours or so. Not sure how accurate this digital thermometer is.. should be ok for a rough reading.



54.1 celsius is about 129.38 Fahrenheit
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post #370 of 1272 Old 05-16-2011, 09:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sellmejunk View Post

Some Films on bluray, seem to ALL have a fuzzy grain intresting two page thread here about bluray fuzz

Well if we're talking about film grain, that's a different story. I am fine with film grain. What's on BSG though was added in post to give it a look. The show was shot on digital cameras and has a hazy, grainy look on purpose to give it a rougher feel. I never loved the look of the show, but the content was so good it didn't matter. You won't find many grainless movies outside of CGI films, or films shot entirely on digital cameras like Avatar. People who abhor film grain are what causes blu-rays with disgusting amounts of digital noise reduction to be released. Another great website that has tons of screenshots is dvdbeaver.
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post #371 of 1272 Old 05-16-2011, 10:18 AM
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Yeh BSG i have come to understand has a gritty washed-out look & is the intended style of the filmmakers.

Rush hour 3 i have picked up cheap & should be a better example when it arrives in the post getting a 5 star rating for image quality

Bluray is a minefield of extreme picture qualities. I had thought bluray (as well as being a disc format) was a seal of quality, but after reading some of the reviews on picture quality based on individual films they vary in great extremes.
Time bandits made in 1981 got 1 & a half stars for picture quality
but then 2001 : Space Odyssey made in 1968 gets max 5 star picture quality.

This guide is soo useful u can look alphabetically or by image quality etc. The film reviews are revealing as they evaulate the processes used in their section called " Sizing up the image quality " in each review.
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post #372 of 1272 Old 05-16-2011, 03:54 PM
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sellmejunk >>> How about taking the temperature of the air being exhausted from pj at a distance of about 6 inches away to get a more balanced reading, thus bypassing the current temperature of the projector's case ? And how about displaying B&W movies to check for "pinkish, greenish or blueish" overtones in whites ?
If you have some time, i have a few questions about the info provided in the owner's manual :
Under the "ADVANCED" menu, there are options and adjustment controls for "TEMPERATURE R", "TEMPERATURE G" and "TEMPERATURE B". Are there any other options/controls/adjustments not shown in downloaded owner's manual ?
Under the "PICTURE" menu, there are controls for "CONTRAST", "BRIGHTNESS", "HUE", "SATURATION", "SHARPNESS", "COLOR TONE", "SCALE", "PICTURE MODE", "3D NR", "MPEG NR". Are there any more options that i missed ?
Under "COLOR TONE", "SCALE" and "PICTURE MODE", what are the options ? Is there an option under "SCALE" that would allow the user to bypass the projector's video processing altogether ?
Are there any other options for NR besides the two shown in owner's manual ?
Thanks and keep up the great work you're doing for all of us >>> Marcos
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post #373 of 1272 Old 05-16-2011, 04:05 PM
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Tangled 1080p trailer paused, and snapshoted from far & near .

This image above is closer to the actual representation onscreen


This image is exactly same as the last one, only i`m standing nearer to the screen. Up close looks lighter probably also due to auto white balance of camera.

The Snapshots capture it better than the DV cam footage which is auto white balancing. i am unable to switch this function off. Its hard to film footage from a projection.

The projectors actual scene changes are perfect, & not dimming and lighting up like DV cam footage suggests

Clip is here
pixars up trailer in 1080p on x1000
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post #374 of 1272 Old 05-16-2011, 04:43 PM
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There isnt alot of options its pretty no frills really.
Under advanced menu
it has 3 options

Sleep timer

Projection < gives option to project on ceiling, desk front rear , which reverses the image>

Projection Info (which gives current temperatures of RGB)
There is nothing to adjust here

Those you listed for picture menu is correct there is no other options.

The scale function only has 3 settings, Full, Zoom 1, * Zoom 2.

I have no clue what 3D NR does or MPEG NR, only giving options for HIGH, LOW & off for these 2 options.
I`d say the manual pretty much covers it.
Sadly there no hidden options.

On Pc i use a shareware program called powerstrip, its has advanced options for color, RBG CMY + options to enable/disable EID CIE chromatic, color correction etc values if thats useful

Thxs for the feedback.I`ll attempt to run projector for another 2 hours soon and try taking the temperature from 6 inches away as requested.
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post #375 of 1272 Old 05-18-2011, 04:56 PM
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Video clip : NBA Basketball1080 youtube source playing on X1000
I`ll have to redo its a little off color, lost my powerstrip settings when i upgraded the ati driver
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post #376 of 1272 Old 05-20-2011, 04:40 PM
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Please note the X1000 is now in its coolerbox with dust filters on the outside.
I have noticed by defocusing i can see lots of crap on the lens already, so not too impressed by the X1000 dust filters. I had been asked to measure the temperature 6 inches way etc, but now the X1000 has been DIY dust proofed, i`m reluctant to take it out of its protected environment. Its really annoying i can see a bunch of dust & tiny hair strands. (unoticable so far,when in focus)
The cool box is working fine tho looks awful ( i have cellotape sticking the dust filters to the sides.. i had to settle on cardboard lined in tin foil which i wrapped up in sticky backed wood vinyl to make it look like a wooden box.
The molex powersupply i bought on ebay to run the fans blew up after 10 mins! luckily not to be dettered i modded a old lawn mower electrical cable and now have a long lead coming out the inside of the computer all the way to the cooler box to run the fans.

Anyhoo i had a little time to play with powerstrip colors again, and feel this is probably the best color settings at the moment.

Heres another attempt at the NBA clip

Snapshots with camera



NBA Video clip click here, its less blue than previous one

Using the same color settings, i also tried Rush hour 3
bluray





Rush hour 3 clip is here

& finally Superman: The movie (1978) which i had to buy.



Superman the Movie clip: Lex Luthors lair

Anyways there you have it. Now i can relax and enjoy some blurays, & leave you guys to speculate.
Thanks for all the help, if i encounter future problems i know where to come.
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post #377 of 1272 Old 05-21-2011, 01:27 PM
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I now think I want one of these. Can you tell me it the unit has filter maintenance? Is the internal light path sealed?

Thank you for taking the time to post and do so much work for the rest of us..
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post #378 of 1272 Old 05-22-2011, 09:50 PM
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The tech report came back,is as follows:

"Sorry ,late reply about the reason the defective unit ,I list the answers from our chief engineer as below:

Problem 1:
When at stand-by screen ,it is Blue background ,you may see "Water drop" at the left of screen .
Reason: The terminal wire of CPU drive board (NOT CPU ,it is CPU drive board) was bad connection

Problem 2: there is a flash every 400 seconds .
Reason: a gold-plate part is oxidized during long distant .We have maken the anti-oxidizing solution about the part.

Problem 3: there is a Yellow spot on screen center .
Reason:it is optical parts problem .(the optical parts is from 3M company) ,we have replace a new parts."


Its pretty good they did other tests to it i never noticed a flash, or a water drip (whatever that is)

I know a bunch of the skeptics will scoff at the problems, but you have to hand it to them, they are the underdog pioneers in this field, pushing huge boundaries in the face of major brands being the only 3 LED & 3LCD projector on the market.
Whilst they should have intercepted the problem before the projector was sent, i am satisfied with their customer service for keeping it real.

I`ll take the opportunity to advise them their dust filters sux though, they are easy maintainable, the dust filter enclosures slot out of the bottom of the projector. The material looks too thin to work as an effective dust catcher, however there is enough space to replace/add to thier filter material with your own custom filter.
Only DLP has sealed enclosure as far as i know all LCD projectors have dust issues.

Whilst now GREAT my projector is working fine now, i still feel pretty happy about how things turned out as in many ways the price of this projector is sorely undervalued "ITS 3 LED + 3 LCD come on people!, one lens or six lens, repeats one lens or six lens , ", even with the cost of returning it for repair, this projector under epson brand would cost much more thousands of dollars!, but wait its got epson as partner already using their parts inside it already, + oh look an Mstar Semiconductor how nice
, did they mention 3M? never heard of them oh well...
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post #379 of 1272 Old 05-23-2011, 04:07 AM
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I agree with you sellmejunk : the fact the company was so quick in replying to your original email when you informed them of the problem, taking care of the repair so expeditiously, shipping it back from China (!) within two weeks and finally emailing you a report of the repair, that certainly makes us all a lot more confident about CRE and how the company deals with customers concerns.
BTW, out of curiosity and concern about my own pj i googled "air exhaust temperature of digital video projectors" and found at least two mentions, one for a Viewsonic that measured 154 degrees and another describing a BenQ at 145 degrees, compared to your CRE X1000 at 129 degrees and my LG HX300, which measured its hottest right in front of exhaust vent, touching the case, at 120 degrees...Just for comparison's sake...
I emailed CRE recently with some questions of my own, and, guess what, the CRE X1000 is now available only within a shiny black case, due to "customer complaints about dust showing too easily on a white case" !
I am actually so interested in this pj that i downloaded one of your files with pictures showing the pixel alignment of your X1000, which is probably my only concern about three-chip projectors, and i was very/very impressed with the results : even after extreme zooming all i could detect was at most a 1/4 wide pixel misalignment on the left side of the screen, imperceptible to human eye unless strongly magnified. That's excellent performance and i attached the picture here to emphasize the point.
Attached is the picture of the new "shiny black" X1000, which looks rather "Epsonish" to me...
LL
LL
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post #380 of 1272 Old 05-23-2011, 04:49 AM
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Hey SMJ,,,, I think the real issue you had was the yellow spot/image that started to build up. They call it an "optical Parts problem". I CALL it a classic blue screen burn in. TOmAtos - toMaTos?? ,,, Another classic symptom of a blue screen is the water spot degradation pattern. This will clearly show up with a blank image being projected. If I were you I would go back to your first raw testing videos and see if the Sony AMP underneath was on. I suspect this was at the root of the problem. The only issue I have really since I can't see if the HD picture lags due to my internet connection speed is the images all seem to have a slight blue hue to them as opposied to the bright white I am used to with my Sanyo's. Also ?? Am I correct is this s 78 inch screen you are shooting on??

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post #381 of 1272 Old 05-23-2011, 05:11 AM
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Hey M-Gausto, I don't think the temp at the exhaust is a proper reference point with regard to the Panels. I only think it has to do with seeing if there is any drop in temp AFTER an outside front fan as been added into the air path. The intense light that is shot through the panels is the issue and if THEY are getting the proper cooling/protection. If the screen burn was caused by some sort of overheating due to a close proximity hot air recycling environment than the projector's cooling system is OK. My only concern would be if the stock cooling fan(s) ever fail the same problem will show up very rapidly long before the 60K LED hours are up. I would also be concerned with the units Temp protection fail safe especially since it didn't sense and protect the panels from this simmering/show burn.

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post #382 of 1272 Old 05-23-2011, 05:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bohanna View Post
Hey M-Gausto, I don't think the temp at the exhaust is a proper reference point with regard to the Panels. I only think it has to do with seeing if there is any drop in temp AFTER an outside front fan as been added into the air path. The intense light that is shot through the panels is the issue and if THEY are getting the proper cooling/protection. If the screen burn was caused by some sort of overheating due to a close proximity hot air recycling environment than the projector's cooling system is OK. My only concern would be if the stock cooling fan(s) ever fail the same problem will show up very rapidly long before the 60K LED hours are up. I would also be concerned with the units Temp protection fail safe especially since it didn't sense and protect the panels from this simmering/show burn.

Bohanna
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bohanna, I wasn't questioning the ability of the projector's cooling system to keep the LCD chips properly cooled; When i posted the figures for exhaust air temperature of different projectors it was just as a sample from several manufacturers using different types of illuminants; I do realize that LEDs also get hot but afaik standard metal halide bulbs get a lot hotter and as we all know, nothing shortens the life of electronic parts worse than heat.
I've been meaning to ask sellmejunk whether or not he remembers if the Sony receiver was turned on or off during his viewing sessions with the X1000 pj.
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post #383 of 1272 Old 05-23-2011, 07:39 AM
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Wow, that thing needs a lot of work. For 300 or 400 bucks i wouldn't complain, but for a 1,000 ???
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post #384 of 1272 Old 05-23-2011, 10:07 AM
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Verge... actually for the pice it is a great deal... if everything works properly. You are talking about a first in the field not an old standby. The high end RGB LED projectors run $15,000 and make about the same light output.

David

"You buy a Ferrari when you want to be somebody. You buy a Lamborghini when you are somebody." - Frank Sinatra
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post #385 of 1272 Old 05-23-2011, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rovingtravler View Post

Verge... actually for the pice it is a great deal... if everything works properly. You are talking about a first in the field not an old standby. The high end RGB LED projectors run $15,000 and make about the same light output.


Umm, look at his screenshots lol. You are seriously comparing it to a runco, have you seen the runco's?
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post #386 of 1272 Old 05-23-2011, 01:43 PM
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$15,000 is crazy money & certainly for that money you want an excellent picture also one would be using a expensive high end screen to match.
At a fraction of that cost the x1000 its still a good contender running on a low end £120 screen.

If regular DV cameras could record big screen footage perfect, the illegal cinema cammers would be selling more dodgy dvd`s.

I`ll try to take more snapshots this week, it probably is running a little blue, tho doesnt all DVcam cinema footage look blue?

Yes its 78 inch screen at the moment.
Honestly i believe the sony amp was never plugged in as i rarely use it. I have no idea what could have caused it, tho the tech report said there was a bad connection somewhere?, maybe causing a short?

It would be great if a Projector modder could get one of these, I wish i was electronically minded to tinker with it, much like bohanas post about the dude with the 9 Lens home made projector.
HEy there`s 6 lenses in this one to get u started, if any modders are reading this
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post #387 of 1272 Old 05-23-2011, 07:18 PM
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Verge ... actually I own a Runco Q-750i LED projector and for the price of the CRE X1000 Yes I would say it is a steal ... I say this with keeping in mind that it is the first LCD LED FULL HD projector and if not the first still a first gen and brand new tech. I have also seen the Q-1500 and the D-73d at a Factory event in Denver, CO. I have seen the Mico 40, and the Mico 50. So I would say I have a good back ground for LED Full HD projectors

SMJ is correct I have an Anthem AVM50v, Marantz mono blocks 7.1 system and 120" screen. The screen needs replacing with abetter one, but After the pre/pro and the projector purchase in the last 4 months I will wait until the new house is ready.

I am not saying that my runco is only a little better. Things the Q series can do continues to amaze me. However, for the price, if this projector holds up it is a very good buy.

just my 2cents

David

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post #388 of 1272 Old 05-23-2011, 07:20 PM
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oh and one of my rules is I refuse to buy AV equipment unless I can get at least 30% off and I did much better on both of these purchases

There is a Q-750i on EBay for around half right now!

David

"You buy a Ferrari when you want to be somebody. You buy a Lamborghini when you are somebody." - Frank Sinatra
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post #389 of 1272 Old 05-23-2011, 09:58 PM
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It looks to be a good deal if all you need is a LED projector, not something watchable.

But for 1000$ i cant imagine myself buying this for movies or anything that requires watching at its picture. There are a LOT better projectors for that money, they are all bulb powered, but the trade off in picture quality is too big.
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post #390 of 1272 Old 05-24-2011, 05:11 AM
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[quote=rovingtravler ... actually I own a Runco Q-750i LED projector and for the price of the CRE X1000 Yes I would say it is a steal ... I say this with keeping in mind that it is the first LCD LED FULL HD projector and if not the first still a first gen and brand new tech. I am not saying that my runco is only a little better. Things the Q series can do continues to amaze me. However, for the price, if this projector holds up it is a very good buy.

just my 2cents[/QUOTE]
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rovingtravler >>> I envy you so much ! A Runco Q-750i at home, at your disposal, native 1080p illuminated by Luminus LEDs, ouch...
Did you happen to read the review of the unit by Home Theater Magazine ? Didn't Sound&Vision also review it ?
I wish i could afford one of those "LED behemots" with their amazing performance but, alas, i cannot, and that's why i am also so interested in this inexpensive route being offered by the CRE X1000 toward native 1080p + LEDs "video heaven", if one exists...
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Reply Digital Projectors - Under $3,000 USD MSRP

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