CRE X1000 Worlds First 3 LED 3 LCD 1080p Projector..Anybody heard of these guys? - Page 19 - AVS Forum
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post #541 of 1272 Old 06-06-2011, 06:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trogdor2010 View Post

I like to ask (I know it's pretty soon), but how many hours have you clocked on your CRE X1000 as of now?

That is a good question!

Lets see... when i 1st got my X1000 it arrived on 25th of march.
I dont own a big TV, I bought a projector to be my main screen for tv/ computer etc. so out of the box & straight into use.
Maybe 10-11 hours a day on the weekend, but to average it out i would say 9 hours a day.

Up until the 1st issue occurred i had done 135 hours roughly.
Then it arrived back from repair on the 4th of may.
& didnt really use it much until i had built the DIY coolbox.

So maybe 2 hours a day. until i built the box using it maybe 24 hours in total for that period.
.
About 16th of May i finished the box, and since then to now have been averaging about 9 hours a day,

so i estimate
133 hours +
24 hours +
198 hours

equals 355+ hours ive clocked so far.
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post #542 of 1272 Old 06-06-2011, 07:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coolscan View Post

Why don't you just open the PJ and take the pictures yourself? It's just some screws in the bottom usually..

Umm no, why should i risk my warranty ( I may need it), the smart thing for me to do is request photos from the manufacturer.
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post #543 of 1272 Old 06-06-2011, 07:47 PM
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I say lose the box and use the PJ and enjoy. That is the proper way to test the unit under warranty. That box could be a warranty problem or they would have included one if you get my point. You seem to be concerned about the warranty and that box gives them an out if they see this thread. Just use the unit and report SMJ. If it cannot survive without a box then it is a POS anyway. Besides, I think you are better off without the box.

Wow this is a popular thread for some reason. That thing is not even 3d and no professional reviewers have tested it. I don't look for a review any time soon either but that would be very helpful. Look forward to the responses from the manufacturer, if any. We all have to remember the target audience for the unit and it is not currently the US market.
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post #544 of 1272 Old 06-06-2011, 09:21 PM
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For now i`m gonna sit tight until CRE replies to the questions we`ve (collectivley) put together.
I respect alot of the opinions from people here as they have had longer experience with projectors than i have.

Because I`ve spent my own cash to own a X1000 , I too wish to know what the weak points are, so i can get maximum use of it.
Alot of people including mike have examined The PT-120 specs to suggest it doesnt produce UV or IF (or at least less chance of producing it) thus eleviating stress onto the panels,

Bohanna makes a really good case too, & mentions he has repaired projectors for a living so i have to respect that.

The issue with the 1st fault i encountered :i`m satisfied has been expertly repaired, for whatever reason it failed.
Since the factory repair Ive had more hours out of the x1000, & survived a near fatal encounter.
In the meantime i`m getting an awesome picture, I will just have to wait it out with some more "Battlestar Galactica!"

Whatever kinks were there; i feel confident have been resolved. Despite the inital hiccups, i really do feel this is great little projector.
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post #545 of 1272 Old 06-07-2011, 03:25 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MCaugusto View Post

HiFiFun >>> A $5,000 projector using LCOS panels with inorganic material which i imagine you purchased within the past three years and that now exhibits a "pink tint on right edge of screen with only 800 hours of use" ? That's pretty poor performance, but are you sure it's attributed to the inorganic material used and not due to poor pixel alignment of the three superimposed imaging chips, more noticeable on the right side of screen ?
About three years ago i remember reading of problems with Sony's earlier generation of SXRD chips and even years earlier, of problems with JVC/Hughes first generation of DILA chips but no reports ever since, and if the problem with your pj turns out to be attributed to failure of inorganic polarizer layer of LCOS chips (SXRD or DILA ?), then that deserves a thread of its own, that how unique that would seem in my estimation.
I would also like to thank you for that very interesting link to Zeiss Optics explaining why the company relies exclusively on DMD chips from Texas Instruments for their projectors; It kind of confirms my suspicions that perhaps in the future i should consider purchasing only projectors that use DMD chips + LEDs from Luminus Devices ?

The JVC's pink edge discoloration is slowly growing over time. The high heat in front projectors stress the LCD panels and polarizers. It just a matter of time.
The Ziess trade study paper is an example of superb German engineering. It does not have a bias for selecting the better of the two technologies, based upon objective reasoning and observations.
While the trade study did not address 3D projection, other sources (including Sony professional) show the many more obstacles for LCD/LCoS in limiting performance. The major issues is ghosting and brightness. This explains why Epson can't release their improved 2D panels and Panasonic missed an entire year in introducing a 3D projector.

For worry-free, stable, high performance 2D projector, then I recommend the $1200 Mitsubishi 4000.

For 2D and 3D, the Sharp 17000 at $3.4K offers the best 3D picture quality of any consumer projector:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...5#post20497555

Lastly notice their are no Chinese 3D flat panels or projectors. I'm sure they are coming in the next year...
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post #546 of 1272 Old 06-07-2011, 06:48 AM
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[quote=sellmejunk;20535692]

Bohanna makes a really good case too, & mentions he has repaired projectors for a living so i have to respect that.

QUOTE]

The thing that kills projectors as well as other electronic components is heat! It's that simple! Especially with short arc metal halide type lamps. IN theory and on the drawing board some new innovation may reduce the equipment needed to cool a component but when you are working with close tolerances if ANYTHING goes wrong and you take the chance of total failure. In the effort to keep costs down companies have been incorporating all-on board processors and components. When they fail you might as well throw the whole thing out. I have two Philip's 32 inch LCD TV's sitting in my Living room that have the EXACT same problem. One of the boards has failed. The same EXACT TV's from two different sources. The microelectronics on the boards are so tiny you need a magnifying glass to see them and FORGET about trying to solder them!! My point is that it's very nice to talk theory's about what should and should not have to be done to preserve an electronic component however if there is ANYWAY to prevent a potential problem from developing and preserving the life of a component I am all for it!! Especially since this particular projector is new to the market and comes from a company that originally put an aquarium light behind a small screen and had the nerve to call it a HDTV projector. I must admit though the cooler box SMJ built does look a bit Mickey Mouse.

Bohanna


BTW ,,, I am planning on calling the folks at Pioneer with regard to the
60 Inch 1080P Pro-150FD set I have. The set was made in Jan of 2008 and listed for around.7500.00
I know It had been repaired at least once since there were ALL kinds of Tech marks and new parts when I opened up the back.
Even if the guy paid 5000.00. He probably got it around March or April of which means he got at most two years out of the set!!! That translates into around 2500.00 per Year or 208.00 Per month. If we can't come to some sort of arraignment I will be posting the sets demise in a spectacular way on you-tube in the near future complete with editorial comments relating to the folly of purchasing such a product.

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post #547 of 1272 Old 06-07-2011, 07:26 AM
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OK this is the moment all you technical nerds have been waiting for..

Pictures of inside the X1000 + our questions answered!

Click here for size 1024 x 768

They have answered our questions tho number 5 i believe got lost in translation tho we know anyways its aN organic panel.


1. Alot of people have asked for pictures of inside the X1000. please be so kind to provide.
See picture A,B,C attached.
2. Can you tell or show us if the LED s are located behind the LCDs?
Yes,LEDs are located behind the LCDs.
3. Can you show us X1000 picture of cooling heat pipe &
airflow for light path.
See picture A,B,C attached.
4. Do you use good quality transistors, capacitors, resistors
inside x1000 for long life reliability.
Yes, of couse. We use good quality transistor etc to extend the whole projectors life .
5. Do you make an non organic D7 panel version of the X1000.
D7 LCD is origin from EPSON Japan ,it is with good quality , trustable .
6. Does the x1000 filter out or produce UV (ultra Violet
light or Infrared light?
LED light doesn't produce UV and Infrared light . It is Green products.

7. Does the x1000 have a sealed light path / Optical system
Yes ,X1000 is a sealed optical system to protect all inside optical parts.
8. For 3000 lumen output,In final tests of lumen measuring,after the light has passed through the projector light system, the lumens should come down to a value of between 400 to 1000+ lumens. Do you know the actual final lumen number?
Yes .it's true , final lumens is 800 lumens on color light .

Some curious people have asked about Hollywood Studio chip.

9 Can you tell us, do you have x1000 containing the VX
class with Hollywood studio chip & GX class Pixelworks available to buy yet.
At present ,we don't have this type made yet.

Wow, well there you have it, pictures and all!

Get out the magnifying glass & Lets hear your thoughts!
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post #548 of 1272 Old 06-07-2011, 07:48 AM
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thanks for asking the questions. My primary question to validate would be the lumen output. $10k-15k LED projectors (Vangon, Runco), etc cannot put out more than 500-600 lumens tops with a D65 color calibration.

I'd like to know what the real lumen output of this projector is. If you were ever inclined to pick up a light meter, they cost about $40 US for a meter that will do a reasonable job measuring the LUX output of the projector. The LUX output is then converted to lumens depending on the size of the projected image.

You can use the meter to track the light output and to make sure the LED lamp doesn't dim over time. it's a great HT tool to own, especially for those of us with lamp based projectors to tracking the lumen loss over time.
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post #549 of 1272 Old 06-07-2011, 07:49 AM
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I never imagined they would actually answer all your questions and send the pics you requested, AMAZING!

It appears that there is a heat pipe cooler for each color. One fan pulls the air our the rear of the case. Looks like there is room for a couple more fans, one behind each cooler. Where is the filter located again?

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post #550 of 1272 Old 06-07-2011, 08:15 AM
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After studying the photos, it looks like the filter goes in on the right side of picture A, or the bottom if looking at picture C. IMO it would cool much better with a fan on each cooler blowing out as it sucked air in at the filter. With the single fan in use it appears that the unit would suck air in at three locations: the filter, the front cooler, and the side cooler. The air then exits through the rear cooler and out the rear of the case.

With the current set-up, IMO, it would be pulling in dust through the front and side coolers.

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post #551 of 1272 Old 06-07-2011, 08:39 AM
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Man, if anything, you really got to give it up to these guys for having such awesome customer service.
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post #552 of 1272 Old 06-07-2011, 10:05 AM
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Thanks SellmeJunk.

Also if the final (D6500) lumens is 800, that is actually alot of light, certainly workable with a 120 inch screen. Does the projector offer a V stretch mode (for CIH Anamorphic lenses)?

Actually starting to sound sweeter from what I read.
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post #553 of 1272 Old 06-07-2011, 10:29 AM
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(looking at the lens straight on etc) The dust filters are located on The left and right side of the projector. The medium side filter is on the left hand side,and the smaller filter is on the right hand side.
They slot out from the bottom. I didnt see one on the front vent, but may have not looked properly.

The lens anamorphic question i`m unsure, as my PC graphics card does all the stretching. You can search the manual, ive posted it here

I have no plans to buy a Lux meter, personally i dont need one,tho if you wanna send me a lux/light meter, to find out its actual lumens, i would it post it back safely. (I live in the U.K )
I believe it could be 800 lumens as bohanna has mentioned if the LED`s were situated behing the LCDs this would give an a very high lumen output.
I really do recommend further questions to be mailed to the company, & if you could be so kind to post here any replies you may receive that would be cool to keep us all updated.
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post #554 of 1272 Old 06-07-2011, 10:47 AM
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great work SMJ

Everyone the light rating they are giving of 800 lumens is not a calibrated light number. This is the gross ANSI number and probably not an ANSI number. If it is rated at 800 then think more abour 50% of that, which I still have a hard time believing as the Runco and Sim2 with DLP do not even have a true 800 lumens and calibrated as listed above 450 to 625 max at D65.

Great pictures thanks.

David

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post #555 of 1272 Old 06-07-2011, 11:12 AM
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I was under the impression that LCD projectors were more light efficient. Why would you not expect the lumen ouptut to be as high as projectors based on DLP with the same PT-120 RGB light source?

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post #556 of 1272 Old 06-07-2011, 11:21 AM
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Here is a quote from an article on projector central
"Better light efficiency, less power usage. LCD technology is inherently more light efficient. For the most part LCD projectors use lower wattage lamps to produce the same image brightness that you'd get from DLP. This is most noticeable when comparing LCD projectors to DLP projectors that have no white segment in the color wheel. As an example, compare two currently popular 1080p home theater projectors--the Panasonic AE3000 LCD projector uses a 165-watt lamp to produce 1600 ANSI lumens. Meanwhile, the Sharp Z15000 DLP projector needs a 250-watt lamp to get the same 1600 lumens. That can make a noticeable difference in power consumption. It can also make a difference in the amount of heat being generated by the projector's exhaust in the viewing room."
http://http://www.projectorcentral.c...nd-Limitations

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post #557 of 1272 Old 06-07-2011, 12:41 PM
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The question we asked to them specifically about if the LEDs were located behind the LCD was to determine the brightness of this combo technology, which fits bohannas theory that if they were alligned like that, then it would maximize lumen output.
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post #558 of 1272 Old 06-07-2011, 12:50 PM
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I still have a few questions about where the LED's are actually mounted. But this thing looks to be almost hand built with some traditional components that I never thought I would see in here. Don't get me wrong I think it's a good thing as they are typically underrated and more reliable than some of the newer allinone parts. Another thing I would like to point out to you lumen fanatics is you will NEVER get high lumen output without sacrificing contrast ratio's. The brighter you make the projector the lower the contrast ratio. That is one of the reasons I prefer the Business class projectors for watching TV especially sports. If I get a chance I will try to digest what I see here and report my opinions back. Until then thanks to SMJ and all the others who have made this thread so dam interesting.

Bohanna

BTW????? WTF is up with the porn pop ups when you try and enlarge the Pict's.???
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post #559 of 1272 Old 06-07-2011, 01:30 PM
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When I click those pictures, i get what appears to be an animated, X-rated advertisement across the top, with an 18 and up age warning.

What picture host did you use lol? Might want to put a NSFW warning in there lol.
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post #560 of 1272 Old 06-07-2011, 01:33 PM
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I can't even view the pics at work, they atomatically get blocked for porn. I hope I don't get questioned over this, that would be rather embarrasing...

It's too bad no pictures were sent with the PCB covering the LEDs removed. The only logical place to mount the LEDs is behind the LCD, one to each of the three panels. You can see three heat pipes leading to the location of these LEDs in the pics.

These projectors should have great contrast ratios with the lumen rating being so low.

So, Bohanna, you like business projectors because they have terrible contrast ratios?

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post #561 of 1272 Old 06-07-2011, 02:07 PM
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As i pointed out several posts above, all 3LCD engines that use separate R/G/B LEDs for illumination, just like a standard bulb that splits the color into R/G/B and send each color to a separate LCD chip, MUST HAVE THE LIGHT SOURCE BEHIND EACH LCD PANEL ! It's known as a transmissive technology, vs. reflective which is used for LCOS and DMD chips...
According to the test of the Samsung FM10 at Cine4Home, which use a similar arrangement of 3LCD + three Luminus Devices LEDs for illumination, it measured very close to its spec of 1.000 lumens, the reason apparently being that the LEDs in a 3LCD engine have to be on a constant state of maximum output and do not possibly offer any type of "dynamic contrast" as is the case with one-chip DMD projectors from Texas Instruments, which allow for dynamic contrast as the LEDs can be dimmed at will depending on image content.
If i understood the German~English translation, that could be the reason why a 3LCD + LEDs projector such as the CRE X1000 does put out indeed 800 lumens, and after calibration it wouldn't surprise me if it measured at 650~700 lumens...
It's unfortunate that on the pictures sent by CRE they didn't think of moving aside the two circuit layer boards on top of most of the unit and turned the projector ON so that we could see that elegant arrangement of three bright R/G/B LEDs shining behind each LCD panel. Such a picture is shown for the Samsung FM10 review.
Now, as for the CRE X1000 having a contrast ratio of 100.000:1, that's another story that i doubt very much; I would expect it to be more in line with tested pjs using Epson D7 LCD chips, which consistently measure about 2.500:1 natively, without the use of any dynamic contrast feature such as dynamic iris.
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post #562 of 1272 Old 06-07-2011, 02:09 PM
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Sorry i didnt realize that image host did pop ups, i was using photobucket previously but wont let me host images over 1024 x 768.
i`m using firefox free add on called no script, so you can allow parts of the site you want.
If anyone can recommend a free fast image host allowing high rez pictures i will switch to there.
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post #563 of 1272 Old 06-07-2011, 02:24 PM
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photobucket!

easy and free

David

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post #564 of 1272 Old 06-07-2011, 02:24 PM
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I've seen several folks mention a 1k price on the projector, but the first page shows it @ 1.5k US.

http://chuangrong.en.alibaba.com/pro...1920_1080.html

SMJ - what was the cost of the projector in US? thanks!
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post #565 of 1272 Old 06-07-2011, 02:28 PM
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I can tell you that : a little more than $1.700 shipped to USA including an extra fee of 4% if using Paypal for payment....
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I thought DLP had better rates, however, I have had multiple machines with the same size bulb but very differnt output even with the same light path technology

David

"You buy a Ferrari when you want to be somebody. You buy a Lamborghini when you are somebody." - Frank Sinatra
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post #567 of 1272 Old 06-07-2011, 02:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MCaugusto View Post

I can tell you that : a little more than $1.700 shipped to USA including an extra fee of 4% if using Paypal for payment....

wow, I'd have to see at least 2 pro reviews to consider spending that on a blind purchase. I'd want to know D65 lumen output, measured contrast ratios, etc.

If they sent a review sample to Art @ projectorreviews and projector central, it could open a channel for sales in the US market if it turns out to be admirable performer compared to similarly priced UHP projectors.

I still want to know who their target market is at this price point, this isn't cheap, even for the growing 'middle class' chinese market.
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post #568 of 1272 Old 06-07-2011, 02:43 PM
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[IMG][/IMG]
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Have fun explaining that one action, I control the thing here, but I turned off email alerts that go to certain sites. HRs problem, not mine, long as they are blocked I don't care if people try to go there.
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post #570 of 1272 Old 06-07-2011, 02:55 PM
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Of course the LED's are mounted behind the Panels,,, What I was asking was are they filtered or Mirrored before they are shot through the prism assembly?? Put another way,,,, is there any Kind of Buffer or polarizer between the actually LED and the LCD Panel and if so is it replaceable?
The standard LCD projectors currently rely in a 65K white light that is filtered and split into three main colors like the original three gun/tube projectors. The convergence happens within the Prism assembly before its shot out the lens and on to the screen which makes pure BLACKS difficult to reproduce since you are using a WHITE source. I am assuming that the RGB LEDs produce a better level of dark colors since they are not as white as the conventional light source .

Bohanna
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Reply Digital Projectors - Under $3,000 USD MSRP

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